If a Rangers newco are voted in to the SPL...

[Jay]

Right, thought this was worth a thread of its own. If the powers at be are floating about the forum or if folk bring it up with the club, it would be good to have a thread full of folk speaking their mind, rather than opinions about this very real issue being lost on the Rangers thread.

 

We all know liquidation is far from being a certainty. However, if it does occur, there is absolutely no chance of knowing just how quick this new company will pop up and the media start stirring up the campaign to have them invited straight back in. Rather than being caught out at the last minute, I thought it might be worth speaking our minds whilst there's still time - I'm not saying the club will listen, but at least they'll be able to weigh up the differences between pandering to Rangers and losing a number of lifelong supporters.

 

So aye, batter in any thoughts, messages to the club, or just register your intention to have nothing to do with the SPL if a newco simply stoats straight back into the SPL after years of cheating.

 

I'll start by being a lazy bastard and copying and pasting my message from the Rangers thread:

 

With regards to my reaction should Motherwell vote in a newco, there would need be massive benefits included for me to even considering continuing to follow SPL football. If it was used by the clubs to completely revamp the top flight, resulting in a much fairer and competitive league, as well as punishing this newco accordingly with point deductions, Euro bans for a few years etc, then I think I'd be able to get over it and continue to be involved.

 

However, if I don't deem the benefits worth it or, in the worst case scenario, a newco is simply voted in with no changes for the better, I'll never be near SPL football again.

 

I know it's easy to fire up a post like this up on a forum with no real meaning behind it, but I can say without a shadow of a doubt that this is the case for me. If we have reached a point where we find out a team has been blatantly cheating for years and years yet simply invite them back in, then I'm completely done as there really is no point in continuing to be enthusiastic about SPL football.

 

The group I go to games with also agree with this and, knowing these guys for years, I have absolutely no reason to doubt them. Basically, should such a scenario occur, sadly there'd be maybe 7 or 8 of us adopting a junior side rather than going back to Fir Park.

 

Incidentally, if folk are perfectly happy to let Rangers straight back in without question then fair enough, but there's really no need to post about it here.

 

For those of you who think this is some sort of denial of free speech, get a grip. It's quite clearly a thread set up merely to have a proper gauge regarding how many 'Well fans would chuck going to Fir Park if a newco was voted in. Perfectly single and easily understandable. If you want to debate the subject, join the debate on the Rangers thread.

[underboyleheating]

If it is proven that Rangers have cheated their way to various SPL titles and the member clubs vote to let them straight back in to the SPL, I won't be back. My fear is that the other clubs wont have the balls to say no to Rangers. Lets be clear, If this was a club out with the Old Firm, I believe they would let them rot.

I'm sure the loss of my season ticket money won't be a deal breaker to the powers at be at Fir Park. If any ticket boycott goes reaches the hundreds then maybe they will think twice about their decision.

[steelboy]

i think we need to know exactly what rangers being chucked out the league would mean for us. if it means binning our succesful business plan, chopping our playing budget by a significant and wholesale squad changes to make the new budget viable i'm not for it. i don't give a fuck about punishing rangers, i care a lot about motherwell continuing to be succesful.

 

i also think a lot of the newco rage is a bit manufactured. i know a good few motherwell fans that support leeds and it doesn't appear to be an issue for them. i've never heard it casted up in regards to middlesborough or charlton.

 

the directors have a responsibility to the club. they are working hard to make us as succesful as can be, to expect them to just discard perhaps a million quid of income a year is unrealistic. motherwell comes first.

[Jay]

i think we need to know exactly what rangers being chucked out the league would mean for us. if it means binning our succesful business plan, chopping our playing budget by a significant and wholesale squad changes to make the new budget viable i'm not for it. i don't give a fuck about punishing rangers, i care a lot about motherwell continuing to be succesful.

 

i also think a lot of the newco rage is a bit manufactured. i know a good few motherwell fans that support leeds and it doesn't appear to be an issue for them. i've never heard it casted up in regards to middlesborough or charlton.

 

the directors have a responsibility to the club. they are working hard to make us as succesful as can be, to expect them to just discard perhaps a million quid of income a year is unrealistic. motherwell comes first.

 

I don't think anyone has suggested that they expect Motherwell not to vote Rangers back into the league, just that they will personally have no interest in continuing to be involved in SPL football. I have no doubt Motherwell would have their reasons, but that makes absolutely no difference to the fact I would have absolutely no enthusiasm for the SPL if it occured and would therefore have no interest in going back.

[underboyleheating]

i think we need to know exactly what rangers being chucked out the league would mean for us.

I honestly don’t care, if Rangers have cheated we need to do the right thing and vote NO. As I said in the other thread, if this was any other team out with the Old Firm, they would be told to beat it. For too long the Old Firm have got their own way, now is the time to put a stop to it. I honestly believe that we will be fine without them.

 

 

 

[Gaag]

If the Motherwell board vote a newco Rangers straight back into the SPL without insisting on radical changes at the very least I will no longer go to Fir Park to watch them play.

 

If Motherwell had been liquidated we'd be languishing somewhere between the 3rd and 1st division, and rightly so.

 

I do believe that the standard of top flight Scottish Fitba is better with the two of 'em in it, but it should be on a fair more even split in terms of revenue, prize money and voting for fair changes

[joewarkfanclub]

Rangers (and Celtic) have caused and presided over the demise of Scottish Football for a generation due to their greed and to their shame our club and others have bought into their self serving propaganda and allowed them to get away with it. As a result attendances have dwindled and our game is on its arse.

 

As it turns out. Rangers, not content with the already uneven playing field they in part created, have broken the rules and cheated their way to success.

 

They should be justly punished for this whether they whether they are liquidated or not. Relegation to division 1 should be a minimum requirement. If they go bust then no relegation this year for Hibs/Pars and 'Newco' should be invited to submit an application to the Scottish League along with other interested parties to be considered on their merits.

 

Any other scenario leaves the integrity of Scottish Football in tatters.

 

I have been an increasingly infrequent attender at Fir Park in the last ten years due to total disillusionment, but this year I have started to regain some enthusiasm due to the way our board are going about their business. I think our club are a shining beacon of light at the minute, listening to the fans, addressing ticket prices and generally trying to make coming to the football a better experience.

 

All that will have been for nothing if they dont stand up and be counted now.

 

We need to take back our fair share of tv money, take back fairer voting rights, insist that there is a fairer share of gate money (most actors get paid regardless of which theatre they play in) get a bigger league with play offs to ensure less fear and more excitement etc etc

 

This is a once in a lifetime opportunity to restore balance to our league and breath life back into our game.

 

Celtic cant call the shots without Rangers, they need them, we dont. We can live within our means and get back to doing what we do best, nurturing young scottish talent to move on to a higher level bringing money into the club

 

If the clubs dont force this through now they will live to regret it and they will be playing to empty stadia. Without sporting integrity, then whats the point?

[underboyleheating]

Any other scenario leaves the integrity of Scottish Football in tatters.

I only hope the powers at be are listening.

[The_Craig]

I honestly don't care, if Rangers have cheated we need to do the right thing and vote NO. As I said in the other thread, if this was any other team out with the Old Firm, they would be told to beat it. For too long the Old Firm have got their own way, now is the time to put a stop to it. I honestly believe that we will be fine without them.

 

That's the thing that sticks in my craw. In any other walk of life, you don't pay your bills, you get fucked out your house. You cheat by taking steroids or EPO in cycling or Athletics, your banned from competing and your achievements stripped. Hell, even Juventus and Fiorentina were relegated for breaking the rules in Italy. The fact that the media are fighting to keep cheats in the league in Scotland is disgusting. This falsehood that is peddled on a daily basis that we're nothing without Rangers and that we will simply cease to be without their visits at least once a season is ludicrous.

 

Now I don't know the value in pounds and pence that the Rangers bring. But surely to have the chance to look to the long term and to make Scottish football fairer, the chairmen of all our clubs wouldn't want to pass that up. But the short-termism that exists in our game will rear it's ugly head and the heads of our clubs will probably vote 'Yes'.

 

And for me the baw would be burst. For the league competition to not actually be a competition but a Cabal of buisnesses masquarading as sports clubs would be too much. There's a junior club 5 minutes up the road I'll be watching instead for my football fix. I would seriously have to re-consider whether or not I visit Fir Park if the unthinkable happens...

 

I'm sure the loss of my season ticket money won't be a deal breaker to the powers at be at Fir Park. If any ticket boycott goes reaches the hundreds then maybe they will think twice about their decision.

 

 

I'm sure this thread may be watched very closely by the powers that be. We may get a feel from the forum members and their opinions of this issue and maybe give an indication of potential cancelled season tickets, especially since renewal time is coming up...

 

Perhaps the first big issue for the Well Society to get their teeth into?

[maxywell]

Right, thought this was worth a thread of its own. If the powers at be are floating about the forum or if folk bring it up with the club, it would be good to have a thread full of folk speaking their mind, rather than opinions about this very real issue being lost on the Rangers thread.

 

 

 

 

Incidentally, if folk are perfectly happy to let Rangers straight back in without question then fair enough, but there's really no need to post about it here.

 

 

 

So folk should put their opinions as long as it doesn't go against yours?

 

 

 

I'm sure this will get plenty of negatives but in my opinion if Rangers go bust the SPL will fall apart.They treat the wee teams like shite but that doesn't change the fact that we need them.If they did go bust Celtic would be pushing even harder to move away from th SPL and they would probably get their way leaving the league with a shitty tv deal, no teams that can compete at any level in europe and no fans.The SPL would be no better than the Irish leagues within 10 years.People can look through their rose coloured specs if they like but the fact is we need them, the board will see that and take the possible loss of a few fans over the loss of 10,000 fans and everything else that would go with a Rangersless SPL.

[fizoxy]

Letting rangers away with breaking the rules the way they have sets a dangerous precedent, particularly when there are other clubs in financial trouble.

 

Living with the old firm is bad enough now, so imagine how it's going to be when we flat out tell the world we're their bitches.

 

I don't envy the decision makers here, but if they apply the rules to rangers any differently than they would to any other club then Scottish football is a joke.

[alanhutton]

This whole 'Scotland needs Rangers' really does ma tits in.If a said 'newco' came about and they were put in the 3rd division,what's the problem? OK,we would lose the TV deal(the pitance,in comparison,it is) which the old squirm already take a hefty chunk.So a lesser deal,more evenly spread could benifit everyone apart from Celtic.Clubs would have to tighten there belts(something we have been doing for years) forcing young SCOTTISH kids into first team football.Rangers huge support also filltering through the 3rd division,possibly 2nd the season after etc.The SPL might have to take a hit standard wise for 5-6 seasons but could benifit everyone,including the SFL clubs and the national squad in the long run.Ultimatley leading to a better TV deal due to a more competitive league.Then follow the German model regarding pricing(56,000 at B,Gladbach v Shalke last week)then everthing's sorted.just like that.OK,i might be pished.

[Stu]

So folk should put their opinions as long as it doesn't go against yours?

No. The thread was clearly made a place for all those against Rangers newco simply being allowed to waltz back into the SPL. As the original poster has stated, it's a thread for all those who would genuinely walk away from SPL football at Fir Park. Anyone like-minded can add a comment. The purpose is to collect a clearer gauge of the number of fans our club might lose on the basis of admitting a Rangers newco to the league.

 

There's already a thread for people to talk about the Rangers debacle, where all views and opinions have been expressed.

 

There's nothing stopping you starting a thread to gauge the number of fans who feel we need the Old Firm to survive, if you so wish.

 

Back on topic, I'm not a season-ticket holder, but I wouldn't be stepping inside Fir Park or any other SPL ground if the other SPL chairmen don't use this (possibly once in a lifetime) opportunity to stand up for themselves and the league as a whole.

[Rory Bellows]

I'm with the majority of you guys above

 

I've been going to FP since ~1975 or so, but if they get voted back into the SPL (after liquidation and proven wrong-doing), then I will not be back at FP

[nethertonwellfan]

Re: Maxywell and Steelboy, I like your concern for Rangers in all this but would you be defending a Dunfermline if they were in the same situation? I doubt that you would and if the difference is down to money then that shows you what is wrong with society. I'd rather my team was semi pro and had a bit of fucking dignity about it and that goes for the SPL as a whole.

 

Plus Rangers (with the other lot) have been trying to get out of our league for years whilst not giving a fuck about the rest us. If this situation arose and a "newco" Rangers wanted in to the SPL , I would find it somewhat ironic.

 

In my opinion get them to fuck and let them see if the SFL accept them.

[Richie]

The fact is, if it were any other club, direct re-admission would not even be mentioned.

Rangers may be bigger, but they are just another member club.

We've already had people who should be remaining impartial -regan etc- saying it would be a disaster.

A lesser tv deal, maybe, but we would cone out of it with integrity intact. We need to get away from over reliance on tv deals etc anyway.

Short term pain, long term gain.

I would find it morally difficult to go back to an SPL game if they walk straight back in. What would be the point, it would be even clearer that there is a disparity between the status/importance of the member clubs.

[Kmcalpin]

Incidentally, if folk are perfectly happy to let Rangers straight back in without question then fair enough, but there's really no need to post about it here.

 

We have to allow free speech Jay and its important that any observer reading these Boards gets a true picture of our views, if thats possible. We've had plenty of these threads before and always allowed both sides of the argument however "independent" some posters might be. This would set a dangerous precedent.

 

All that said, I agree that if the situation arises we should not simply let Rangers back in the SPL - clubs must use the moment to change rules and regulations on a range of topics including share of TV cash, voting rights and share of home gates. We're asking Club Chairmen to grow a set, rightly.

 

However thats not enough. We, as fans also "have to grow a set" to use the phrase of the moment. Thats more difficult for most of us. It will involve challenging the power of Sky and other TV companies. Make no mistake, they are part and parcel of this issue. They have written clauses into regulations and agreements. They've screwed fans and clubs for years and now we have to fight back to support club chairmen. If they don't alter their agreements and kick off times then we should cancel our subscriptions en masse. If a pub or club dares to show live footie then don't go back to that pub. Folk on here, including myself, moan about the power of Sky and their cronies and about KO times well now we have a chance to stand up to them. If they won't change then we ditch them. No more Barcelona V AC Milan or Arsenal V Man Utd on the box ....big deal. TV is as much as part of this debate as Rangers and its often all too convenient to ignore that.

 

Come what may I'll continue to support MFC.

[Well Well]

If Rangers in whatever form get straight back in with nothing more than a slap on the wrist FIFA or UEFA should investigate the whole bloody mess and also the seriously flawed SFA. If other teams throughout Europe are dealt with appropriately i.e Fiorentina then Rangers should not be an exception no matter how big they think they are. Again it was mooted by many Rangers fans on the phone ins and the so called experts that the SFA should be footing the bill to allow them to fulfill their fixtures. They can fuck right off that money should be ploughed straight into grass roots football. Rangers are a business if the go bust tough shit, no handouts. They have plenty of so called money men 'fans' constantly putting themselves forward they should be the first to stick their hands in their pockets to bail out 'their club'

[Big Stall]

My view is that one way or another Rangers will be getting back in. What I really would like Motherwell and the rest of the clubs to do is stand up to them and ensure there are structural changes -

 

- voting rights changed - effectivley no OF veto

- tv and prize money redistributed in a fairer manner

- end of this 5% pish

 

Theres probably much more that I would want, but if there is the opportunity to even some of these odds, then we need to take it. Lets not forget, this gives us the chance to hit Celtic as well, not just Rangers.

[Jay]

So folk should put their opinions as long as it doesn't go against yours?

 

We have to allow free speech Jay and its important that any observer reading these Boards gets a true picture of our views, if thats possible. We've had plenty of these threads before and always allowed both sides of the argument however "independent" some posters might be. This would set a dangerous precedent.

 

Jesus Christ.

 

It has absolutely nothing to do "opinions that go against mine" or "not allowing free speech" - quite clearly in fact. There is a full scale debate on the Rangers thread about this that anyone can post up there views and participate.

 

However, as it was quite blatantly made clear, this was a thread set up to see if there really were a large number of 'Well fans considering chucking it should a newco be voted in. It is actually possible to have such threads without folk starting to greet that it doesn't allow free speech.

 

It's like someone posting a thread up with the sole purpose of gauging how many folk are intending on travelling to our first European away game next season, and others whinging that it denies them the right to discuss the away game on that particular thread, when there's a match thread already on the go.

 

To suggest it's some sort of attempt to deny folk posting opposite opinions or set a dangerous precedent regarding the denial of free speech is absolutely laughable.

 

 

No. The thread was clearly made a place for all those against Rangers newco simply being allowed to waltz back into the SPL. As the original poster has stated, it's a thread for all those who would genuinely walk away from SPL football at Fir Park. Anyone like-minded can add a comment. The purpose is to collect a clearer gauge of the number of fans our club might lose on the basis of admitting a Rangers newco to the league.

 

 

It seems some folk are just too busy foaming at the mouth at perceived free speech injustices to actually think about it.

 

I've added a bit extra to the original post in the hope it clears up any difficulties with understanding what this thread is actually about. I'll just add a poll though to save the hassle.

[Big Stall]

Ok, to answer Jays question, would I walk away from fir park in our champions league season because Rangers found themselves back in the league....... in short, no.

 

As I said in my previous answer, I would hope that re-entry only comes after significant concessions have been granted!

[David]

If Rangers do go into liquidation (and I don't think they will at this time) and the SPL board, which includes our own Derek Weir, votes to allow a newco straight back in I'll be bitterly disappointed.

 

I'm not sure I could ever stop going to Fir Park though.

[Easy Target]

If a newco get voted back in then Scottish Football has lost the last remaining shreds of dignity that it has. (Albeit that's not much). They have broken numerous rules set out by the SPL so why should they be allowed to carry on as if nothing's happened. The SPL would be shown to be corrupt in the eyes of the world. If it were to happen I wouldn't attend another SPL game again.

[Jay]

Right folks, I've added a poll.

 

Toyed with the idea of having a number of choices like "Won't be back" or "Will only be back if serious changes are made" etc, but thought I'd keep it simple with a basic "If a newco was voted into the SPL would you consider turning your back on SPL football?" emphasis on the word 'consider'.

 

As we don't know the ins and outs regarding what would happen, considering it is all we can really do. So I suppose if it would depend on what changes were made, you would be considering not going back. Whereas if you know you'd continue to turn up regardless, then obviously it's not something you'd consider.

[rab_mackinnon]

We are a part of the Self Preservation League and have been for a long time.

 

The winds of change have arrived and it's so refreshing to see a meeting being arranged for the 10 member clubs without to have a meeting on survival without the old firm.

 

It is only right we should be planning for this eventuality, how rangers and celtic managed to get into such a strong position in the first place with regards to voting is beyond me, if they didn't get there own way what were they going to do find another league to play in? what was the reality of that threat coming to fruition.

 

 

It's sad that our main ambition every season is to get into the top 6 and have a decent cup run, and for most spl clubs we don't dare to look higher than that.

 

I believe that if change is going to happen in our game and other countries uefa have to make a stand about the financial running of its clubs.

 

It's not right that Real Madrid and funded by the bank of madrid, that chelsea and man city are owned by billionaires and can just show complete reckless abandon in bringing in the best players on ludicrous amounts of money.

 

 

Our teams used to compete on the continent with a strong scottish team and when we've been our most succesful it's been with scottish players.

 

I get fed up seeing rangers and celtic get the benefit of the doubt with everything from refereeing decisions to the complete moral hazard rangers have been operating under.

 

I'm proud of our club since administration we've cut our cloth accordingly and been relatively succesful celtic can afford to buy success for now and as much as they believe there season ticket holders will renew next season, how many will be likely too without the old firm games?

 

Most celtic fans i know have a season ticket just to guarantee a ticket for that game and europe alone.

 

Motherwell have a real opportunity to become a force in scottish football and it's all dependant on us as fans to get behind the team talk of if the spl do this i'll no go is counterproductive.

 

I love this club and the spl has been a joke for a while we benefitted from it being a joke we should've been relegated years ago but loopholes on stadium capacity kept us in the game.

 

If we finish 2nd and get to the cup final this year we will have the ability to shape our own destiny with the well society in our corner who cares about rangers and celtic.

 

MON THE WELL