If a Rangers newco are voted in to the SPL...

[alanr]

I've been following the developments closely on Pie and Bovril as the thread on Rangers administration is probably the best ever to appear on a football forum. And there's not much I can add to that, or this thread that hasn't already been pointed out.

 

I would like to think our club will try to take this opportunity to rid Scotland of the cheating, tax dodging, bigotted rapists of our game and look at the bigger picture and the good of Scottish football, rather than short term cash offered by Sky and the hoardes of knuckle draggers we are subjected to a few games every season.

 

If a newco Rangers were to be allowed into the SPL it would confirm my suspicions that professional football in Scotland is rotten to the core and I would not be back at Fir Park. I would take part in next seasons European tour as an extension to this season but then would probably find myself a local junior side to start watching on a Saturday.

 

 

[Wellfan1984]

I would the SPL although I do not look forward to explaining to my 3 year old who has caught the Well bug this season. Probably still go to non SPL matches like the Scottish and League Cups etc. but what is the point if a team has cheated and is not punished because our chairmen have allowed them to be all but untouchable.

 

If I miss my Saturday fix of football then there is always Livingston, Livingston Utd, Bathgate Thistle, Pumpherston, West Calder and many Saturday Amatuer to look in on.

 

As for changes, voting rights to 9-3 (and if Rangers are in a 3 year suspension of their right to vote making it 8-3). Anymore than that gives me the fear that dumb things like a ten team league etc.

[Jonesy]

I've not been to anywhere near as many games as I'd like in the last 18 months, mainly due to work or having to save for my wedding. As soon as that is out the road in September I had been fully intending to to plough money into the Well Society and get a season ticket, which I had to give up at the end of last season.

 

But, if newco Rangers are voted straight back in I'll not be back and neither will I be paying into the Well Society, as much as it would pain me. That includes them being voted back in with heavy sanctions, TBH. As Gaag pointed out, we wouldn't have been afforded the same luxury 10 years ago, and neither would any other team, except Celtic.

 

We can use this to completely restructure the league and it's set up while they work their way back through the SFL, we don't need to make it a part of their immediate reinclusion.

[postiejim]

Im actually waiting to see what happens with the Rangers situation before 1) I join the well society2)renew my season ticket and 3) continue to go to SPL football .I will not put my hard earned cash into a set up that bends over backward to help the BIG GUYS but puts the boot into the wee diddie teams.

[Yoshi-1991]

Rangers can fuck off. Thats all I have to say.

[joewarkfanclub]

Having had time to sleep on this I think I would base my decision on attending Fir Park on what stance our board took on things as opposed to the SPL final decision, albeit Derek Weir is on the board.

 

I would be looking for our board to be very vocal and come out strongly against newco and try to persuade other clubs to be similarly strong.

 

If this fails, then like other posters I may limit my visits to Fir Park Scottish and League Cups, which could be seen to offer some chance of just resorts for a teams own efforts.

 

Before this season that had pretty much been the case for me anyway.

 

The club must be strong. Make change happen!

[siebsbarmyarmy]

Voted No because I would never turn my back on Motherwell. Would I be utterly pissed off and scunnered hell yeah.

 

Do I think Well and Scottish football could survive without them, absolutely and utterly yes and it would be a better place. If we had to tighten our belts accordingly and play youth then so be it but we would survive!

 

Would I turn my back on Scottish football and Well, nope but I would moan like fuck about it.

[Lobey_Dosser]

As much as it would hurt me and leave a huge void in my life, I would turn my back on Motherwell if they played any part in fast-tracking a debt free Rangers newco into the SPL.

 

The argument shouldn't be around what Rangers bring to the table in terms of finance. If they are guilty of corruption, they must be suitably published.

 

Thankfully, I think liquidation will be avoided and Rangers can remain in the SPL while paying back the debts that they recklessly accrued.

 

Hopefully our opinions are heard.

[bladesman]

The starting point of any discussion between the 10 chairmen should be the allegation(for that's all it is at the moment) that Rangers quite blatantly cheated their way to title after title; in the process treating any rules and regulations laid down by the SFA/SPL with complete and utter disdain. As a direct result of those actions, the clubs and others no longer in the top flight were denied the chance of more success both financially and on the field of play.(Not even mentioning the tax cases)

If, after due consideration, these club representatives allow Rangers, in whatever guise, to operate in the SPL, then our whole system is rotten to the core and not worth supporting. How could any club after that promote fair play, equality or honesty?

It is clearly a tipping point in the history of Scottish football, and as some folk have mentioned before the eyes of the footballing world are firmly fixed(excuse pun) on our wee country and what happens over the next few weeks and months will have an effect that will last years. If a country/Football association so dogged with corruption as Italy, can mete out severe punishments to the likes of Fiorentina/Juventus, then there is clear opportunity for the powers that be, including the other clubs, to act decisively and for the larger benefit of Scottish football.

I don't attend Fir Park as often as I would like, but as a Motherwell fan of 40+ years, I would not attend SPL matches where in the great scheme of things dishonestly on a grand scale is condoned or at the very least treated with the preverbial shrug of the shoulders.....

Rant over.

 

 

 

[HanoMaSano]

Having been a season ticket holder since I was 8, following the club home and away for many years and having just signed my self and my wife up for the well society, I find it hard to say I would never be back to the SPL. However I don't anything would make my blood boil more than a newco Rangers being let back into a status-quo SPL without major sanctions and changes. I think it may push me over the edge with regards my interest in Scottish Football.

 

I don't doubt that if Rangers are liquidated they would be allowed back into the division, however I'd be hugely disappointed in our own club if that was allowed without these considerations:

 

1) No other club can be put out to allow them back in, we can't relegate Hibs/Dunfermline or deny Ross County promotion to allow a brand new "Govan Rangers 1690 FC" in. All sporting integrity would be gone. If they are to be let back in it has to be part of an expansion to the league which the majority of fans have been calling out for for years. ***

 

2) Newco Rangers HAVE to be given severe sanctions, -20 points each season for the next 3/4 seasons. SPL Voting rights suspended for the same period.

 

3) Voting rights HAVE to be moved away from the 11-1 system, we cannot allow our club (and similar clubs) to be dictated to by the Old Firm veto.

 

4) The money has to be more evenly distributed, it's fair enough that 1st should get more than 2nd should get more than 3rd etc. But this has to be done in a LINEAR fashion. (the money cut from the top two could then be used to fund the extra teams in an expanded league.)

 

 

If the clubs put their collective feet down and achieve the majority of the above then I'd accept the SPL with Newco Rangers. It would still grate slightly, but I could understand that it was done for the good of the game.

 

 

 

*** (14 or my preference 16 team leagues CAN work with fairer splits/playoffs. If Neil Doncaster or any of the board at MFC have an open mind I could show them a proposal for a 16 team league that would provide all of what Doncaster says is vital for Sky TV, with none of the drawbacks of the current unfair split)

 

 

 

[Jay]

Would one of the admins/mods be able to the change the title of this thread?

 

Originally it was meant for folk to post up their intentions not to return to Fir Park if Motherwell voted in a newco, just to see how many folk were genuine - but obviously that hasn't quite been the case, with folk either debating the subject or moaning about free speech.

 

Now I've added a poll, I think the thread title is a little misleading. There could be people planning on going to Fir Park regardless and they could be put off even opening this thread because of the title. So I'm thinking the vote poll results would probably give a fairer reflection if the thread had a title to match, such as "If a Rangers newco are voted in to the SPL..." or something.

 

Got to say though, when I posted the vote poll I fully expected "No" to win, and I was just looking to see what percentage would vote "Yes". However, the fact that over thirty votes have been cast and those considering not going back is far and away the leader is quite surprising, although understandable.

[Jay]

Would one of the admins/mods be able to the change the title of this thread?

 

Fuck me, that was quick. Cheers.

[Cakes]

Fuck me, that was quick. Cheers.

Aye, that's what the wife says to me as well (including the laugh).

[maxywell]

Re: Maxywell and Steelboy, I like your concern for Rangers in all this but would you be defending a Dunfermline if they were in the same situation? I doubt that you would and if the difference is down to money then that shows you what is wrong with society. I'd rather my team was semi pro and had a bit of fucking dignity about it and that goes for the SPL as a whole.

 

Plus Rangers (with the other lot) have been trying to get out of our league for years whilst not giving a fuck about the rest us. If this situation arose and a "newco" Rangers wanted in to the SPL , I would find it somewhat ironic.

 

In my opinion get them to fuck and let them see if the SFL accept them.

 

 

 

Difference is Dunfermline contibute very little to the league.I'm not saying i like the idea of them being allowed straight back in but those with a say need to think about the financial implications over upsetting a few fans.

[steelboy]

Re: Maxywell and Steelboy, I like your concern for Rangers in all this but would you be defending a Dunfermline if they were in the same situation? I doubt that you would and if the difference is down to money then that shows you what is wrong with society. I'd rather my team was semi pro and had a bit of fucking dignity about it and that goes for the SPL as a whole.

 

 

i wouldn't chuck anyone out that is capable of fulfilling their fixtures unless their is some explicit cheating going on eg the calcio scandal.

 

ebt's are immoral but they are only a small part of a massive amount of tax avoidance (70bn a year). they were widely used by banks and english clubs as well because their accountants told them they found a loop hole in the system. the government closed that retrospectively (which i'm glad about) and now they have to pay up. no one is talking about punishing the english teams involved and no one has ever mentioned newco share transfer ruining the credibility of english football as far as i can remember.

 

where were the high horses when we went into admin, bumped the taxman, sacked our players and finished bottom and still stayed in the league (then signed partick's best players whilst still in admin)?

[ONeils40yarder]

Dont even need to think about this one....

 

IF the Blue Scum are liquidated, and IF the Blue Scum MkII are re-elected straight into the SPL (debt fucking free may I add), then I couldnt care less which way Motherwell voted, I will not be back at an SPL fixture again. Fuck only knows how I would explain it to the weans though.

 

Morally, its is completely unacceptable to think that these fuckers can cheat their way to god knows how many trophies, buying players that they couldnt afford, not paying their taxes and all the while telling us that we are the diddies, they then go totally tits up in a way that Scottish Football has ever seen before and yet they expect to get straight back into where they were previously except £100 million better off??? Nah, fuck that, the SPL will be more of a laughing stock than it currently is and it will be the final act that tells me that Scottish Football is all 'about the Old Firm and to fuck with everybody else'.

 

As I said on another thread, if we are adverself effected by Rangers plight, then tough fucking titties, in any sector a customer (and thats the way we seem to be treating Rangers, because they certainly arent a competitor) going tits up will have an effect on their supplier and we will have to cut our cloth (again) accordingly...........I would rather support a shite/skint Motherwell team in a decent and honest SPL/SFL than a good Motherwell team being chucked the scraps from the top table of Glasgow Celtic and Dynamo Govan in a corrupt top flight.

 

Rangers going tits up (and having to work their way back through the leagues) could be the best thing that has ever happened to Scottish Football despite what the arseholes in the media (and boardrooms it seems) would have you believe.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ML1]

Did you all have to think long and hard about the morality of the thing about going back to Fir Park after we bumped a long list of folk with 30 pence in the pound ?

 

 

Do you still perform 20 minutes of self-flagellation each match day before leaving the house ?

[superwell87]

Voted No because I would never turn my back on Motherwell. Would I be utterly pissed off and scunnered hell yeah.

 

Do I think Well and Scottish football could survive without them, absolutely and utterly yes and it would be a better place. If we had to tighten our belts accordingly and play youth then so be it but we would survive!

 

Would I turn my back on Scottish football and Well, nope but I would moan like fuck about it.

I totally and utterly agree with you that one.

[johnstone]

Did you all have to think long and hard about the morality of the thing about going back to Fir Park after we bumped a long list of folk with 30 pence in the pound ?

 

 

Do you still perform 20 minutes of self-flagellation each match day before leaving the house ?

 

I bet if we were liquidated we would still be playing the the lower leagues.

 

We went into admin and came out of it. Rangers might still do this. If they don't and end up as a Newco and still play in the SPL - is that fair?

[ONeils40yarder]

Did you all have to think long and hard about the morality of the thing about going back to Fir Park after we bumped a long list of folk with 30 pence in the pound ?

 

 

Do you still perform 20 minutes of self-flagellation each match day before leaving the house ?

 

 

 

2 totally different scenarios ML1, admin v liquidation, and you know that fine well . If Rangers were to come through Admin then I would have no problem with that and I think they will, but liquidation and the emergence of the Govan Redknees in the SPL is a totally different thing.....

[ML1]

 

2 totally different scenarios ML1, admin v liquidation, and you know that fine well . If Rangers were to come through Admin then I would have no problem with that and I think they will, but liquidation and the emergence of the Govan Redknees in the SPL is a totally different thing.....

 

So in the event of them going into liquidation , which very probably wont happen and them then being reinstalled penalty free , which wouldnt happen as numerous from Doncaster to Yorkston have already said you're all just fighting to get to the front of the queue to desert MFC just in case ?

[Jay]

Maybe I'm completely missing the point, but why are folk even attempting to bring Motherwell being in administration into this? It has absolutely nothing to do with it. No one is saying that they will now stop following Motherwell if Rangers, currently in administration, aren't thrown out of the league, so comparing the two is a complete non-starter.

 

This is quite clearly about a liquidated Rangers 'rising from the ashes' as a newco, and being admitted straight back into the SPL - which still exists a very real possibility. That has nothing to do with our admin days whatsoever.

[ONeils40yarder]

As I've said, its two very big IF's at the moment, but if they come to pass then I will chuck watching top flight Scottish Football. We may have an opportunity to radically change Scottish Fitba, if we dont take that chance then they can shove it up their hoop.

[nethertonwellfan]

Difference is Dunfermline contibute very little to the league.I'm not saying i like the idea of them being allowed straight back in but those with a say need to think about the financial implications over upsetting a few fans.

 

So it's basically back door bribery then eh? As I said I would rather Motherwell were a part time club in a part time league and had a bit of integrity than accept their dirty money.

[dennyc]

Clearly the other ten teams are trying to utilise the Rangers situation to address the inbalances that currently exist in areas such as voting criteria and TV monies. Let's give them credit for that. Rangers have given the good guys a means to achieve a giant step forward with regards to fairness and equality. If they stick together they can succeed now where other attempts have been thwarted by the Old Firm alliance.

 

So far, the only thing that has been proven is that Rangers are in severe financial dificulties and are in Administration. Given the apparant agreement of the players to accept binding wage cuts, it is by no means certain that Liquidation will happen soon if at all. That will probably depend on the outcome of the tax case regarding offshore payments. Even then the Revenue will likely do a deal as they will get next to nothing if Rangers are Liquidated. The Revenue are more interested in establishing the principle so they can then go after the likes of Man Utd and Arsenal. Everything else regarding contracts, illegal payments etc is only at the allegation stage. Iif proven, I agree Rangers should be penalised by the SPL/SFA to the maximum level allowed under current rules. Like most people I would be far from happy were they to escape without any meaningful sanction. Funnily enough, there is a growing support amongst Rangers fans for starting in the bottom Division and working their way back up rather than remaing in the SPL with a points penalty of 20 points or so for a number of seasons.

 

Will I boycott the club I have supported through thick and thin for over forty years if I disagree with the eventual outcome? No way. What I hope for is a better deal all round which will benefit Motherwell, my club.

 

Will I withdraw my support for The Well Society? No way. We have the most progressive, forward thinking Board in the League and the success of this Scheme should ensure we do not end up in the same mess as Rangers are in now (and which we were in not that long ago). If Rangers are demoted and we lose income as a result, we will be relieved this Contigeancy Fund is available for short term funding. Talking to Fans of other clubs and explaining the reasoning behind the project, without exception they think it is the way forward.