If a Rangers newco are voted in to the SPL...

[Malky79]

Been a suggestion that Rangers may present the SPL10 with a plan to split revenues all over, tickets and all, if accepted back into the SPL as a Newco.

 

Thoughts?

 

I'm massively divided on it, as obviously, fuck Rangers. They cheated their way through the best part of two decades of the SPL showing absolutely no regard for anyone else. The integrity of the league would obviously be called into question.

 

That said, an SPL where all the money is split, however questionable that is, would almost certainly benefit us, and possibly bridge the gap a bit between us and the Old Firm. If that money would lead to us have another one or two quality players, that could make a huge difference to us short and long term.

 

I could live with that to be honest. Keeps the TV companies happier and still a win for us and rest of 10.

[fatcalf]

Or we could get them tae fuck and stick together with the other diddy teams and vote that same proposal through when Celtic are on their own and unable to use their dual veto. That way when Rangers eventually work their way back they don't have the same carve up.

[Malky79]

I have zero confidence in the 10 diddy teams sticking together, collective bottle will be shattering at thought of TV money evaporating away not to mention the addiciton to multiple OF games at home a season that seems to kill off league expansion.

 

That said I don't know how long the current contract is or how watertight it is. If there was 3 seasons to go and the money is locked in then easier to plunge Rangers to the bottom tier when you confident they be back up for contract renewal time.

[Kamikaze Bob]

They cheated. End of. They should be getting fucked out of the league as soon as possible, stripped of their previous titles, and sanctions imposed if they re-apply for the league and manage to get in. They league's better off without them.

 

Hell, the country's better off without them.

 

 

As for going back to Fir Park, I have barely been over the past few years due to money and time constraints, but this would probably stop me trying to get back at all.

[Ianc]

Right, thought this was worth a thread of its own. If the powers at be are floating about the forum or if folk bring it up with the club, it would be good to have a thread full of folk speaking their mind, rather than opinions about this very real issue being lost on the Rangers thread.

 

We all know liquidation is far from being a certainty. However, if it does occur, there is absolutely no chance of knowing just how quick this new company will pop up and the media start stirring up the campaign to have them invited straight back in. Rather than being caught out at the last minute, I thought it might be worth speaking our minds whilst there's still time - I'm not saying the club will listen, but at least they'll be able to weigh up the differences between pandering to Rangers and losing a number of lifelong supporters.

 

So aye, batter in any thoughts, messages to the club, or just register your intention to have nothing to do with the SPL if a newco simply stoats straight back into the SPL after years of cheating.

 

I'll start by being a lazy bastard and copying and pasting my message from the Rangers thread:

 

 

 

Incidentally, if folk are perfectly happy to let Rangers straight back in without question then fair enough, but there's really no need to post about it here.

 

For those of you who think this is some sort of denial of free speech, get a grip. It's quite clearly a thread set up merely to have a proper gauge regarding how many 'Well fans would chuck going to Fir Park if a newco was voted in. Perfectly single and easily understandable. If you want to debate the subject, join the debate on the Rangers thread.

 

 

Stand up man Jay

 

Exactly what needed to be said.

 

If our chairman or indeed any managers with the potential to influence the club are watching.

 

Believe this one small thing from me.

 

I will cancel all subscriptions and potential investements I have with the club and personally come and remove bricks from the wall that I paid for.

 

Directors - I will follow you through the press and comment on your every action. I have emailed Fifa and Euefa today as have many otther thousands.

 

We (and more directely you as directors) have been taken for compliant serfs for years and played week in and out against an illegally subsidised team (read Rangers (IA)

 

It will not be easily forgotten if you allow ,in any form I mean, any form of these cheats back in to the SPL or equivalent.

 

Be Carefull Scottish fitba at stake

 

End of era They never had the money. They just cheated you and Me VOTE ACCORDINGLY

[maxywell]

Orrite superfan bear with me for a second.

 

You've got a sister - who's in tow with a bit of an abusive fucker - likes to slap her about a bit, likes to play away behind her back as well. Up until you've found out about all of this you and the rest of yer family put up with him cos he's loaded and he throws his cash around a wee bit to you all - wee holidays, loans etc.

 

Your sister kicks him out when she's finally had enough of his abusive behaviour and cheating.

 

So you're telling me you'll talk your sister round to letting the c**t back into her house. Just because you'll miss the cash he splashes around in everybody's direction.

 

Some fuckin guy Yabba - good for you son

 

 

There comes a time in everybody's life when you do what's right.

 

 

 

I wouldn't talk her into it but i wouldn't try too hard to talk her out of it.The folk that matter might not be happy about it but they'll do what's right financially.

[ColtnessDosser]

Stand up man Jay

 

Exactly what needed to be said.

 

If our chairman or indeed any managers with the potential to influence the club are watching.

 

Believe this one small thing from me.

 

I will cancel all subscriptions and potential investements I have with the club and personally come and remove bricks from the wall that I paid for.

 

Directors - I will follow you through the press and comment on your every action. I have emailed Fifa and Euefa today as have many otther thousands.

 

We (and more directely you as directors) have been taken for compliant serfs for years and played week in and out against an illegally subsidised team (read Rangers (IA)

 

It will not be easily forgotten if you allow ,in any form I mean, any form of these cheats back in to the SPL or equivalent.

 

Be Carefull Scottish fitba at stake

 

End of era They never had the money. They just cheated you and Me VOTE ACCORDINGLY

 

I could not agree more.........Sporting Integrity takes precedence over any money that the bigots may decide to let us have. They CANNOT be voted back in

[mwellhighland]

I wouldn't talk her into it but i wouldn't try too hard to talk her out of it.The folk that matter might not be happy about it but they'll do what's right financially.

 

[David]

If Rangers do go to the wall, and are voted back into the SPL then it simply confirms what many of us have thought since time began. Scottish football operates on an uneven playing field.

 

There's the Old Firm, then the rest of us. Let's be honest, when it comes to anyone else going out of business, getting relegated or whatever we're all pretty much interchangeable as far as the SFA & SPL are concerned.

 

If this goes through I reckon that this season may be the last for me.

[Jay]

104 votes so far and I've got to say, I'm surprised at the results. I genuinely believed the majority would not consider turning their back on the SPL, and the poll was more an experiment just to see how big a percentage voted for "Yes".

 

The fact that 63.46% have said they would consider juking if a newco was voted in says something quite strongly about the whole situation.

[David]

Indeed. Especially when you take into account the length of time a lot of those people have been supporting Motherwell. I'm into my 26th year as a game-attending 'Well fan and I'd be considered a newcomer by many who've admitted this newco business may be a step too far.

[Well-Made]

Liquidation

Was reading the BBC yesterday and they brought up a good point.

 

If Rangers went into liquidation and got voted back in.

 

How could the SPL refuse any other club that decided to the do the same?

 

The way I see it is even if they were to change the rules, there'd be some smart ass lawyer out there that could find a way round it. Or a valid reason to sue.

 

We could see a new Rangers, Celtic or Hearts every few years.

 

From some of the other stories I've been reading, if the SPL were to reject them. they could apply for entry into Division 3. Every Club that has applied to join Division 3 has been asked to provide 3 years worth of financial records etc.

 

How can a new company do any of that?

 

The only option that should be open to them, is to do what Airdrie did and buy another club, move it to Ibrox and rename it.

 

They have cheated for years the rest of us, both by buying and paying players they couldn't afford. By having them on 2 contracts, they've cheated again.

 

If the SPL, SFL and the SFA don't stand up and grow a set, then their mugs.

 

The SPL chairmen involved can expect to see a reduction of fans from their support.

 

After all why should we the paying punter continue to accept that the best we can ever hope to get is 3rd in the League, because we are willing to let clubs away with cheating.

 

The SFL Chairmen, Clubs and their fans will continue to see the SPL as only looking out for themselves and not the rest of Scottish Football. This could in effect reduce the SFL crowds further.

 

If Rangers get to join the SFL, how many punters are going to want to turn up watch their team being pumped by a team that would do a Gretna. Any reduction of their own support, even for a season could be hard for them to get back once the cash cow leaves their league.

 

If the SFA try to force the SPL or the SFL to let Rangers join, it will only prove that Celtic fans don't have paranoia.

 

Simple fact is that Rangers have knowingly cheated for years and the only reason it has come out now, is because of administration.

 

The worse thing about this is that some in the media have known about the double contracts and other things that have now come out for at least a year, they'll say sat on it for legal reasons, I say they tried to hide it rather than bring an institution down.

 

 

 

The Administrators

I am going to be watching very carefully over the next few days or so on how the Administrators at Port Vale deal with the club and redundancies.

 

Someone behind the scenes at Ibrox, appears to be pulling the administrators strings.

 

Every other club that has been placed into administration, has had the administrators in charge of every decision from day one.

 

Yet the administrators brought in by Criag Whyte, do not appear to be doing this.

 

Redundancies at every other club in Scotland and England, have been made within the first few days or at most a week.

 

I appreciate that they have been trying to get a handle on where all the money CW brought into the club has gone but from the time the news broke that there was going to be redundancies, it's taken almost a fortnight to get where they are today.

 

It's been one excuse after another from them, "We won't announce anything just now because of International Football" give me a break, there'd be nothing to announce because the players wouldn't have been there to tell in the first place. So that first week was just a "we must be seen to doing our jobs"

 

If they were anything like they should have been they'd have told the players concerned over the phone, we know that all administrators have been heartless bastards , if you listen to some of our ex-players being told by a young girl.

 

Then they have the audacity to sit down with the players and put a deal to them. If the player says no, surely it should be "there's the door" not "okay tell me what you're looking for and I'll think about it"

 

Then the there's the stories appearing in the paper from our own Government, Rangers Football must survive.

 

Others declaring that the administrators can't sack too many players as it devalues club - If they don't do that it puts more behind the scenes staff at risk surely, but they aren't exactly involved in the success of the team on the pitch, it's only the players and management that matter, I forgot!!

Another one I saw yesterday was if the administrators sack the 11 or more players, it will cost the new owner £20 million pound to replace them, your having at a laugh at that one. At the end of the 3 months or when Rangers come out of administration and these wages go up again, it's going to cost them £12 Million pound a year shortfall that they aren't bringing in at present. Okay they may well sell some on, but knowing how desperate Rangers will be for money, do you really see McGregor getting sold for anywhere near the £9 Million previously quoted?

 

Sorry for the rant but it's been a long time coming, I have also taken the information only from what I am reading or hearing on the news, I haven'[t even began to look at any of the non-news media on this.

 

Some of you may agree with all of this, some of this or none but it's my thoughts on how this whole diabolical shambles of a situation has occurred and has been handled.

 

I'm not going to start on the whole debate of Rangers needing to be part of Scottish football to survive as I already said my piece on that when they wanted to move to England and my view hasn't changed.

[Dezz]

Liquidation

Was reading the BBC yesterday and they brought up a good point.

 

If Rangers went into liquidation and got voted back in.

 

How could the SPL refuse any other club that decided to the do the same?

 

The way I see it is even if they were to change the rules, there'd be some smart ass lawyer out there that could find a way round it. Or a valid reason to sue.

 

We could see a new Rangers, Celtic or Hearts every few years.

 

From some of the other stories I've been reading, if the SPL were to reject them. they could apply for entry into Division 3. Every Club that has applied to join Division 3 has been asked to provide 3 years worth of financial records etc.

 

How can a new company do any of that?

 

The only option that should be open to them, is to do what Airdrie did and buy another club, move it to Ibrox and rename it.

 

They have cheated for years the rest of us, both by buying and paying players they couldn't afford. By having them on 2 contracts, they've cheated again.

 

If the SPL, SFL and the SFA don't stand up and grow a set, then their mugs.

 

The SPL chairmen involved can expect to see a reduction of fans from their support.

 

After all why should we the paying punter continue to accept that the best we can ever hope to get is 3rd in the League, because we are willing to let clubs away with cheating.

 

The SFL Chairmen, Clubs and their fans will continue to see the SPL as only looking out for themselves and not the rest of Scottish Football. This could in effect reduce the SFL crowds further.

 

If Rangers get to join the SFL, how many punters are going to want to turn up watch their team being pumped by a team that would do a Gretna. Any reduction of their own support, even for a season could be hard for them to get back once the cash cow leaves their league.

 

If the SFA try to force the SPL or the SFL to let Rangers join, it will only prove that Celtic fans don't have paranoia.

 

Simple fact is that Rangers have knowingly cheated for years and the only reason it has come out now, is because of administration.

 

The worse thing about this is that some in the media have known about the double contracts and other things that have now come out for at least a year, they'll say sat on it for legal reasons, I say they tried to hide it rather than bring an institution down.

 

 

 

The Administrators

I am going to be watching very carefully over the next few days or so on how the Administrators at Port Vale deal with the club and redundancies.

 

Someone behind the scenes at Ibrox, appears to be pulling the administrators strings.

 

Every other club that has been placed into administration, has had the administrators in charge of every decision from day one.

 

Yet the administrators brought in by Criag Whyte, do not appear to be doing this.

 

Redundancies at every other club in Scotland and England, have been made within the first few days or at most a week.

 

I appreciate that they have been trying to get a handle on where all the money CW brought into the club has gone but from the time the news broke that there was going to be redundancies, it's taken almost a fortnight to get where they are today.

 

It's been one excuse after another from them, "We won't announce anything just now because of International Football" give me a break, there'd be nothing to announce because the players wouldn't have been there to tell in the first place. So that first week was just a "we must be seen to doing our jobs"

 

If they were anything like they should have been they'd have told the players concerned over the phone, we know that all administrators have been heartless bastards , if you listen to some of our ex-players being told by a young girl.

 

Then they have the audacity to sit down with the players and put a deal to them. If the player says no, surely it should be "there's the door" not "okay tell me what you're looking for and I'll think about it"

 

Then the there's the stories appearing in the paper from our own Government, Rangers Football must survive.

 

Others declaring that the administrators can't sack too many players as it devalues club - If they don't do that it puts more behind the scenes staff at risk surely, but they aren't exactly involved in the success of the team on the pitch, it's only the players and management that matter, I forgot!!

Another one I saw yesterday was if the administrators sack the 11 or more players, it will cost the new owner £20 million pound to replace them, your having at a laugh at that one. At the end of the 3 months or when Rangers come out of administration and these wages go up again, it's going to cost them £12 Million pound a year shortfall that they aren't bringing in at present. Okay they may well sell some on, but knowing how desperate Rangers will be for money, do you really see McGregor getting sold for anywhere near the £9 Million previously quoted?

 

Sorry for the rant but it's been a long time coming, I have also taken the information only from what I am reading or hearing on the news, I haven'[t even began to look at any of the non-news media on this.

 

Some of you may agree with all of this, some of this or none but it's my thoughts on how this whole diabolical shambles of a situation has occurred and has been handled.

 

I'm not going to start on the whole debate of Rangers needing to be part of Scottish football to survive as I already said my piece on that when they wanted to move to England and my view hasn't changed.

 

Excellent post mate and very well put.

To be honest I've completely lost track of what's going on down at the 'Big Hoose' but this whole thing of negotiating pay cuts seems ludicrous to me. As you say they should have been shown the door if they didn't accept what the administrators were offering.

 

Also, what's the script with these pay cuts? How long are they for, until the mess that is Rangers is sorted out one way or another?

[joewarkfanclub]

r

Liquidation

Was reading the BBC yesterday and they brought up a good point.

 

If Rangers went into liquidation and got voted back in.

 

How could the SPL refuse any other club that decided to the do the same?

 

The way I see it is even if they were to change the rules, there'd be some smart ass lawyer out there that could find a way round it. Or a valid reason to sue.

 

We could see a new Rangers, Celtic or Hearts every few years.

 

From some of the other stories I've been reading, if the SPL were to reject them. they could apply for entry into Division 3. Every Club that has applied to join Division 3 has been asked to provide 3 years worth of financial records etc.

 

How can a new company do any of that?

 

The only option that should be open to them, is to do what Airdrie did and buy another club, move it to Ibrox and rename it.

 

They have cheated for years the rest of us, both by buying and paying players they couldn't afford. By having them on 2 contracts, they've cheated again.

 

If the SPL, SFL and the SFA don't stand up and grow a set, then their mugs.

 

The SPL chairmen involved can expect to see a reduction of fans from their support.

 

After all why should we the paying punter continue to accept that the best we can ever hope to get is 3rd in the League, because we are willing to let clubs away with cheating.

 

The SFL Chairmen, Clubs and their fans will continue to see the SPL as only looking out for themselves and not the rest of Scottish Football. This could in effect reduce the SFL crowds further.

 

If Rangers get to join the SFL, how many punters are going to want to turn up watch their team being pumped by a team that would do a Gretna. Any reduction of their own support, even for a season could be hard for them to get back once the cash cow leaves their league.

 

If the SFA try to force the SPL or the SFL to let Rangers join, it will only prove that Celtic fans don't have paranoia.

 

Simple fact is that Rangers have knowingly cheated for years and the only reason it has come out now, is because of administration.

 

The worse thing about this is that some in the media have known about the double contracts and other things that have now come out for at least a year, they'll say sat on it for legal reasons, I say they tried to hide it rather than bring an institution down.

 

 

 

The Administrators

I am going to be watching very carefully over the next few days or so on how the Administrators at Port Vale deal with the club and redundancies.

 

Someone behind the scenes at Ibrox, appears to be pulling the administrators strings.

 

Every other club that has been placed into administration, has had the administrators in charge of every decision from day one.

 

Yet the administrators brought in by Criag Whyte, do not appear to be doing this.

 

Redundancies at every other club in Scotland and England, have been made within the first few days or at most a week.

 

I appreciate that they have been trying to get a handle on where all the money CW brought into the club has gone but from the time the news broke that there was going to be redundancies, it's taken almost a fortnight to get where they are today.

 

It's been one excuse after another from them, "We won't announce anything just now because of International Football" give me a break, there'd be nothing to announce because the players wouldn't have been there to tell in the first place. So that first week was just a "we must be seen to doing our jobs"

 

If they were anything like they should have been they'd have told the players concerned over the phone, we know that all administrators have been heartless bastards , if you listen to some of our ex-players being told by a young girl.

 

Then they have the audacity to sit down with the players and put a deal to them. If the player says no, surely it should be "there's the door" not "okay tell me what you're looking for and I'll think about it"

 

Then the there's the stories appearing in the paper from our own Government, Rangers Football must survive.

 

Others declaring that the administrators can't sack too many players as it devalues club - If they don't do that it puts more behind the scenes staff at risk surely, but they aren't exactly involved in the success of the team on the pitch, it's only the players and management that matter, I forgot!!

Another one I saw yesterday was if the administrators sack the 11 or more players, it will cost the new owner £20 million pound to replace them, your having at a laugh at that one. At the end of the 3 months or when Rangers come out of administration and these wages go up again, it's going to cost them £12 Million pound a year shortfall that they aren't bringing in at present. Okay they may well sell some on, but knowing how desperate Rangers will be for money, do you really see McGregor getting sold for anywhere near the £9 Million previously quoted?

 

Sorry for the rant but it's been a long time coming, I have also taken the information only from what I am reading or hearing on the news, I haven'[t even began to look at any of the non-news media on this.

 

Some of you may agree with all of this, some of this or none but it's my thoughts on how this whole diabolical shambles of a situation has occurred and has been handled.

 

I'm not going to start on the whole debate of Rangers needing to be part of Scottish football to survive as I already said my piece on that when they wanted to move to England and my view hasn't changed.

 

I totally agree with you. It stinks to high heaven and has all the hallmarks of some well connected people desperately trying to ensure that come hell or high water that The Cheats maintain their status and position.

[Steve Diggle]

104 votes so far and I've got to say, I'm surprised at the results. I genuinely believed the majority would not consider turning their back on the SPL, and the poll was more an experiment just to see how big a percentage voted for "Yes".

 

The fact that 63.46% have said they would consider juking if a newco was voted in says something quite strongly about the whole situation.

 

Good discussion Jay

 

For me the fact that they've been 'at it' for so long - even considering they've had the odds so incredibly stacked in their favour ANYWAY - through the support they recieve, the media coverage they receive and most importantly the huge slice of the pie them and their pals have managed to carve up.

 

It's just way beyond inexcusable.

 

I still think that they are fucked.

 

And I still think that outwith their current finacial situation and the pending tax case they still face further points dedcuctions / possibly relegation for other misdemeanours.

 

If the SPL / SFA don't deal with them appropriately then the playing field is less level than even I thought it was and it's time to spend my money on guitar gear.

[Well-Made]

Excellent post mate and very well put.

To be honest I've completely lost track of what's going on down at the 'Big Hoose' but this whole thing of negotiating pay cuts seems ludicrous to me. As you say they should have been shown the door if they didn't accept what the administrators were offering.

 

Also, what's the script with these pay cuts? How long are they for, until the mess that is Rangers is sorted out one way or another?

 

It's been reported that they are for 3 months or when Rangers come out of administration, whichever is soonest. It sees them through to the end of the season, if still in admin.

 

 

 

[joewarkfanclub]

Even without liquidation they should be relegated.

 

Illegal payments, hidden contracts, irregularities in the registration of players....

 

Dunfermline or Hibs would have every right to take that to court if they are forced to go down.

[mwellhighland]

holyquoteaments

[one m in motherwell]

Even without liquidation they should be relegated.

 

Illegal payments, hidden contracts, irregularities in the registration of players....

 

Dunfermline or Hibs would have every right to take that to court if they are forced to go down..

 

On recent showing, I wouldn't be surprised if Petrie did that. As much as it won't surprise me at all if they sail through unscathed, Im equally convinced there are more things to come out of all this...

[Snap19]

The reason I voted no is im a Motherwell fan, I want to see Motherwell play and I will support them through thick and thin!

 

As for rangers, yeah thy have cheated and I wouldn't be keen on them getting straight back in Scott free but I don't really care cause im a well fan!

 

J

[Haggischomper]

Football is a sport, those playing football professionally are expected to show sportsmanship. Here's a wee definition of sportsmanship:

 

Sportsmanship typically is regarded as a component of morality in sport, composed of three related and perhaps overlapping concepts: fair play, sportsmanship and character. Fair play refers to all participants having an equitable chance to pursue victory and acting toward others in an honest, straightforward, and firm and dignified manner even when others do not play fairly. It includes respect for others, including team members, opponents, and officials

From this, we can see that there is sportsmanship, and what passes as sportsmanship in the OF-dominated SPL. Two different things completely. Time for the "diddy 10" to stand up and be counted especially with the current back-story of trying to improve Scottish football's lot on the world stage. Scottish football has been set back decades by the Old Firm's chase for cash and their basis in hatred of their rivals - it is THAT hatred that has fueled them over the years, that need to be better than the other one - not any desire on their part to push Scottish football onwards and upwards. If Scottish football is to flourish, it is going to be via the efforts of the provincial clubs so we need to have a level playing field, not one where the odds are stacked heavily in favour of two clubs hellbent on recreating centuries-old battles and other influences that are hee-haw to do with football. We need to see the return of true sportsmanship. We need a level playing field if Scottish football is ever to have a sporting chance again.

[Stu]

The reason I voted no is im a Motherwell fan, I want to see Motherwell play and I will support them through thick and thin!

 

As for rangers, yeah thy have cheated and I wouldn't be keen on them getting straight back in Scott free but I don't really care cause im a well fan!

Good point. The majority of people who are season ticket holders at Fir Park who have voted 'yes' on this Motherwell FC fans forum aren't Motherwell fans at all. They don't give a shit about the club.

[weeyin]

Football is a sport,

 

Professional Football is a business and its sponsors expect it to deliver as many potential customers as possible.

[Steve Diggle]

Professional Football is a business and its sponsors expect it to deliver as many potential customers as possible.

So that sums up what folk are railing against.

 

Business and sport can exist together but when fair play is cast to the side by corruption and cheating all for the sake of cash the the ba's on the slates.

[weeyin]

So that sums up what folk are railing against.

 

Business and sport can exist together but when fair play is cast to the side by corruption and cheating all for the sake of cash the the ba's on the slates.

 

Business and sport can exist together, but when you run a business you have a legal obligation to make decisions that maximise the returns for investors/shareholders. At that stage, they are often mutually exclusive.

 

The day we let TV companies dictate the fixture list is the day the fans lost control of the game.

 

I'd much rather have newco back in the SPL with a 16 team league, equal split of revenues and 3pm Sat/7:45pm Wed only kick-offs than kick out newco and keep the arrangements we have now.