If a Rangers newco are voted in to the SPL...

[postiejim]

Good point Fatcalf ,the league is already set up for the old firm to succeed ,the present voting structure, the distribution of cash ,the coverage they receive in the media , refs giving them more decisions than the diddy teams, and it goes on and on and on . This for many though is the straw that broke the camels back .

[gilmour]

1334420578[/url]' post='337412']

Good point Fatcalf ,the league is already set up for the old firm to succeed ,the present voting structure, the distribution of cash ,the coverage they receive in the media , refs giving them more decisions than the diddy teams, and it goes on and on and on . This for many though is the straw that broke the camels back .

 

So what do we do ?

[Brazilian]

I'd be more inclined to put more money into the club through the 'Well society, I'd maybe just put it in in £300 quid memberships to get more votes and force change, if people in control of our club do not listen to fans opinions and take this unique opportunity to force through changes that are good for Scottish football in General.

 

I'd still also get money into the club through sponsorship and hospitality and club charters etc.

 

but I am under no illusion that our club will suffer if they do not do the right and honest thing in the circumstances and vote to simply allow Rangers off lightly, keeping the status quo in power ,held by the old firm and the inbalance of distribution of funds generated by the league.

 

its time for change, the fools in charge that have been bleeding Scottish football dry for decades have presented the others with a opportunity for change, I feel it may be the last chance for the 'others' to finally do the right thing and make changes for the good.

 

as for your SPL 10 team league, you can still shove it as it just panders even more the top twos elitism, and that is why I too have great concerns over 'our' man and how he'll vote.

 

We deserve to know, the clubs thoughts on these extremely serious issues

[Muzz]

Sweet Jesus.

 

Look, we all know that it's not fair that Rangers newco FC will be allowed back in to the top table. Whilst it has been thoroughly enjoyable watching the meltdown, this was always going to happen. Why is anyone really that surprised? Scottish football has been geared towards preserving the old tarts in Glasgow for 130 years. Have you been going to football matches with your eyes shut? From bullying referees last season, to Celtic playing at Hampden when it was against the rules to Rangers not paying the bills and getting away with it, this is just three recent examples of favouritism in recent times. How can anyone be shocked that they are getting preferential treatment?

 

Oh aye, and if you're a fan who is threatening to give up your season ticket and demanding back the Society funds etc, I think the best word to describe you is hypocrite. Where was your moral crusade when we went into administration? Should we have been automatically relegated? Also, I'm (unfortunately) old enough to remember us escaping relegation on more than one occasion thanks to league reconstruction. Where were your views on sporting integrity at that moment in time?

 

For me, I'm a Motherwell supporter. I support my team through thick and thin, and irregardless of what is going on at other clubs. Perhaps some people on this forum should do the same. We are a brilliantly run club with passionate supporters who love the club. Show it. Prove that we don't need nor care about them. Not by running away, but by supporting the club with even more defiance in the face of this latest fiasco.

[Jay]

Look, we all know that it's not fair that Rangers newco FC will be allowed back in to the top table. Whilst it has been thoroughly enjoyable watching the meltdown, this was always going to happen. Why is anyone really that surprised? Scottish football has been geared towards preserving the old tarts in Glasgow for 130 years. Have you been going to football matches with your eyes shut? From bullying referees last season, to Celtic playing at Hampden when it was against the rules to Rangers not paying the bills and getting away with it, this is just three recent examples of favouritism in recent times. How can anyone be shocked that they are getting preferential treatment?

 

I don't think anyone is shocked or surprised.

 

Oh aye, and if you're a fan who is threatening to give up your season ticket and demanding back the Society funds etc, I think the best word to describe you is hypocrite. Where was your moral crusade when we went into administration? Should we have been automatically relegated? Also, I'm (unfortunately) old enough to remember us escaping relegation on more than one occasion thanks to league reconstruction. Where were your views on sporting integrity at that moment in time?

 

Before replying to this point I'd rather you elaborated on how the two scenarios are comparable.

 

For me, I'm a Motherwell supporter. I support my team through thick and thin, and irregardless of what is going on at other clubs. Perhaps some people on this forum should do the same. We are a brilliantly run club with passionate supporters who love the club. Show it. Prove that we don't need nor care about them. Not by running away, but by supporting the club with even more defiance in the face of this latest fiasco.

 

"I'm a better fan than you".

[Kmcalpin]

 

All those wanting to cancel standing orders if the worst (best for rangers) happens. Who exactly are you protesting against. Fair enough boycott games where the consiquences of failure or cheating don't apply. But who are you hurting cancelling money you promised.

 

That for me is the major issue. If such a protest ever takes place be sure about one thing - it'll hurt and seriously damage clubs like us, Aberdeen and St Mirren. It'll feed and support Rangers and indeed Celtic who will grow ever stronger as a result. SFL clubs too might benefit if non OF SPL clubs wither. Cancelling Society membership will damage our (the fans) influence on MFC. Is that what we want? Talk about cutting our nose off to spite our face.

 

I'm dead set against allowing a Rangers Newco to waltz straight back into the SPL, as are most of us, but I'm not about to damage my own club to prove an academic point. I think some kind of horse trading is inevitable and I hope that the 10 non OF clubs will use Rangers current weakness to renegotiate voting rights and distribution of cash - that is the sensible and pragmatic way forward.

 

Picture this scenario if you will - an even stronger Rangers and Celtic winning virtually every game 4/5/6 - 0. Non OF clubs playing in front of attendances say 25/30% down on what they are at the moment. Poorer squads. Clubs like Falkirk, QOS, Hamilton gaining slightly in strength. Little or no say in the running of MFC. The only good thing about it would be that we could say "Its nought to do with me Guv" / "I don't support the corrupt SPL etc etc.

 

Is that what we want?

[Brazilian]

the problem is Dave, no horse trading is taking place, the SPL are creating get out clauses for every scenario to ensure that Rangers no matter the guilt are retained, that I believe is what is angering most fans to the point that they would walk away from it, and the clubs need to know it.

 

Edit: as we all know the clubs are the SPL, but also as we all know, the SPL have now showed their hand and sided with two clubs over the others, time for change dont you think?

 

at least you are thinking it through, rather than the muzz approach of standing by and getting pumped

[gilmour]

1334421657[/url]' post='337415']

Sweet Jesus.

 

Look, we all know that it's not fair that Rangers newco FC will be allowed back in to the top table. Whilst it has been thoroughly enjoyable watching the meltdown, this was always going to happen. Why is anyone really that surprised? Scottish football has been geared towards preserving the old tarts in Glasgow for 130 years. Have you been going to football matches with your eyes shut? From bullying referees last season, to Celtic playing at Hampden when it was against the rules to Rangers not paying the bills and getting away with it, this is just three recent examples of favouritism in recent times. How can anyone be shocked that they are getting preferential treatment?

 

Oh aye, and if you're a fan who is threatening to give up your season ticket and demanding back the Society funds etc, I think the best word to describe you is hypocrite. Where was your moral crusade when we went into administration? Should we have been automatically relegated? Also, I'm (unfortunately) old enough to remember us escaping relegation on more than one occasion thanks to league reconstruction. Where were your views on sporting integrity at that moment in time?

 

For me, I'm a Motherwell supporter. I support my team through thick and thin, and irregardless of what is going on at other clubs. Perhaps some people on this forum should do the same. We are a brilliantly run club with passionate supporters who love the club. Show it. Prove that we don't need nor care about them. Not by running away, but by supporting the club with even more defiance in the face of this latest fiasco.

 

I am not a hypocyite I gave up my st seat when Boyle allowed the of to take my seat that I had paid for still fucking irks me big time. HoWever I moved on and got 3 st for me and the kids thins season. I won't stop supporting the club but I will stop supporting the spl. I THINK YOU ARE MISSING SOME MASSIVE POINTS!

Relegation no longer countsCheating by way of giving players extra money through illegal double contracts no longer counts.

And the big one don't pay taxes sign who you want tax free and wages exempt then u have carte blanch to bend the rules and blatently cheat.

[Muzz]

I don't think anyone is shocked or surprised.

 

Could have fooled me.

 

Before replying to this point I'd rather you elaborated on how the two scenarios are comparable.

 

All circumatances should have resulted in demotion. How are they not comparable? We've broken the rules as well.

 

"I'm a better fan than you".

 

You're missing the point if you think that's what I'm trying to say. We should support our club no matter what is happening at other clubs.

 

Relegation no longer countsCheating by way of giving players extra money through illegal double contracts no longer counts.

And the big one don't pay taxes sign who you want tax free and wages exempt then u have carte blanch to bend the rules and blatently cheat.

 

We've broken the rules before when we plunged into administration. Should we have relegated?

[Brazilian]

Jog along Muzz, we never broke the rules

[grahamb]

Jog along Muzz, we never broke the rules

 

 

We didn't break the rules as here weren't any at the time, they came in after our admin experience. John Boyle was a step ahead of the SFA and SPL on this one.

 

 

Doesn't make it right!

[star sail]

28000 at Hampden today and not an Old Firm team in sight. Shows what happens when there is a trophy up for grabs. Some would have it that Scottish football would crumble if Rangers were not there. A Hearts, Hibs, Aberdeen and Dundee Utd that thought they had a chance at winning an SPL title would keep Scottish football ticking over no problem.

 

The biggest problem with Scottish Football is that we have an uncompetitive league. A league where 10 of the 12 teams know before a ball is kicked that they will finish no higher than 3rd.

 

Rangers and Celtic are the problem and yet we are been told that they are the saviours of the game in this country. Too many people (many of them journalists) with a vested interest in seeing Rangers stay in the SPL are feeding us a lot of shite. The other SPL teams have got to call the OF's bluff. It's the only way for the game in this country to progress.

[Brazilian]

Doesn't make it right!

or moral, which is why I'll never worship JB like some, but he went a long way to sorting his mess. but thats a completely different subject and I dare say Muzz knows it

 

and its also the reason if Rangers are only guilty of administration and arrange CVA and recover from it, I feel there should be no further punishment and would expect most Motherwell fans to feel the same

 

this thread is covering the hypothetical situation regarding Rangers being liquidated and getting preferential treatment not extended to other clubs. a situation that looks more possible than many ever thought, and the fact that the SPL and other bodies seem to be bending over backwards to accomodate them when in the past they have left other clubs to go into freefall

[dennyc]

From recent posts it appears Rangers have been found guilty of illegal payments to players via second contracts which were not authorised by the SFA/SPL. I must have missed that announcement. When and if they are found guilty they should be punished and demoted as has happened in other countries where corruption and cheating has been proven....Italy, France leap to mind.

 

So far all that is confirmed is that Rangers are in Administration because they were living outwith their means, part of which included paying ridiculous wages to attract supposed better class players than opposing teams. I understand why that is looked upon as cheating to gain an advantage. But if that view has merit, then surely Hearts, Celtic and every team that has run up a massive bank debt or relies on a Sugar Daddy to keep the club afloat falls into the same category. I guess that's why Eufa are attempting to bring in strict financial guidelines based on turnover. And don't forget Motherwell were reportedly paying Goram, Spencer and the like £6000 a game when clearly the Club could not afford it. Subsequent events proved that.

 

Rangers have been punished for entering Administration and will be further punished if they are still in Administration when the new season starts.. If they Liquidate before then and a Newco is somehow allowed to remain in the SPL it will definately leave a very sour taste in the mouth of every non Rangers fan. I don't understand why a points penalty cannot still be applied in that situation. The trade off must be a fairer division of revenue and a more democratic voting system. Motherwell and all the other "Diddy Teams" should end up in a much better situation overall than if the Rangers melt down had not happened.

 

Yes, we all detest Rangers, Celtic and all the shite that they bring to Scottish football.I would love it if they just upped and left. But that isn't going to happen any time soon so we need to get all that we can realistically get out of this situation.

[steelboy]

"I'm a better fan than you".

 

he will be next season if he's at the game and you're in the pub

[Rickoza]

We maybe couldn't afford to pay it, but we still did everything above board and crucially paid all our taxes. That's the big difference.

[Steve Diggle]

We fucked up big time and ended up in administration. Absolutely naive chasing of the dream leaving us in a very serious situation - we stiffed our creditors and staff appallingly.

 

No argument

 

There were no rules to hammer us by at that time - but we deserved a severe doing.

 

But!

 

From that moment of entering administration - inviting PKF to come in and turn things round we've never looked back. When the game was up we sorted ourselves out.

 

Without giving Muzz the full answer to Jay's very pertinent question - the difference between us and Rangers going into administration are great and many.

 

They would be in administration anyway WITHOUT the big tax case.

 

Which although it may result in a huge debt - has not crystalised as an outstanding debt yet.

 

It's one of many instances of mismanagement / foul play that dwarf our naive finacial mismanagement by some considerable margin.

 

One final hint relates to the expression when you're in a hole stop digging.

 

Me - like fatcalf I'm fed of the odds being stacked in the OF's favour.

I'm also fed up of lack of SPL balls, lack of SPL innovation, lack of SPL common interest, lack of SPL democracy, lack of press transparency, lack of investigative journalism and pathetic dependancy on cash rich bigotted wife beaters.

 

If all of the SPL clubs (who remember ARE this mystical SPL) don't have the nuts.

 

If like us Rangers had made an arse of it realised they had fucked up, apologised to their creditors and began to sort things out. Then I could live with that. That point in time would probably have been about 3 yrs ago to be fair.

 

But they have no fucking humility and are railing against an unfair world out to get them.

 

They can bite my fuckin shite!

[Steve Diggle]

And by the way - while there's £134M of debt lying there. Some of the takeover stiffs want to talk about signing targets

 

Holy and utter lumping fuck

[carluke dosser]

If you break the rules you take the punishment for that breach whether your a tramp like us and the rest or a member of SPL royalty like Celtic or Rangers.

If the SPL let them back in as a different company then we as well as all bending over and taking it the arse harder than before do you think anyone would let the rest of us off with the same kind of situation we would be out the league without a second thought.

I would be another that would walk away from SPL football and do something else with my hard earned cash but it would be with a heavy heart for me these days the Old Firm games for me dont mean a lot just points that are a bonus if collected the rest of the games are the ones that matter so bring on a Old Firm free zone.

No one else wants them and their knuckle dragger fans they know that, there stuck here so it is the the time to realise that when a wounded animal is down the time is right to go for the jugular.

FTOF....

[Busta Nut]

I would just like to say I am not one to speculate and if a newco is formed I will make my mind up then.

 

Due to me working 2 sats a month I haven't had a season ticket in 3 or so years, This has meant that If ma purse strings are a bit tight just afore I get paid I can't aford to go to some games when I am otherwise available to.I was gonna purchase a ST next year and effectively give it to the old man when unable to attend, but the situation here has had me rethink that, as I am not sure what I would do if a newco was formed and allowed in.

[GrahamH]

I agree with Steve Diggle that the punishment has to fit the crime regardless of the effect on the other teams in the SPL. IF they are found guilty of EBT's/dual contracts and are back in the SPL next season with minimal sanctions I won't be back and I'll cancel my Well Society direct debit.

I can just about accept the fact they get "debatable" decisions in games but I won't accept rules being altered for them.

[Welldaft Mk1]

If the clubs vote to keep a Newco company in the SPL then I will be far from happy, but as stated on my reply earlier that will not stop me going to watch Motherwell FC

 

Any such decision by SPL clubs boards is to protect the TV money, so that we can watch a reasonable product on the pitch. I would rather that instead of threatening the club as many are doing on here, there was a greater push by fans of all SPL clubs to cancel Sky subscriptions if they withdraw or substantially reduce their contract just because of the possibility of Rangers not being in the SPL. If most Chairman new that the TV deal would remain then I am sure most would want to see a newco Rangers start life in the 3rd division.

[fatcalf]

If the clubs vote to keep a Newco company in the SPL then I will be far from happy, but as stated on my reply earlier that will not stop me going to watch Motherwell FC

 

Any such decision by SPL clubs boards is to protect the TV money, so that we can watch a reasonable product on the pitch. I would rather that instead of threatening the club as many are doing on here, there was a greater push by fans of all SPL clubs to cancel Sky subscriptions if they withdraw or substantially reduce their contract just because of the possibility of Rangers not being in the SPL. If most Chairman new that the TV deal would remain then I am sure most would want to see a newco Rangers start life in the 3rd division.

 

It's about time everyone lived within their means anyway so taking the TV money out of the equation might solve a few problems, create a few initially yes but to me that money should never be counted as guaranteed income. TV money if it comes in should be used to bring gate prices down, everthing else goes to run the football club.

[The Skipper]

Why should the decision have any bearing on whether you support your own team? Surely staying away in protest is hurting Motherwell more than anything else. Register your complaints, boo them every time we play them, write to your MP but for pity's sake support Motherwell whatever the outcome.

[Well Well]

Sorry, but a couple of thousand folk in Scotland cancelling their SKY subscriptions will not even be noticed outside the West of Scotland never mind at SKY HQ or make even a scratch in their profits. The only option is for the SPL chairmen to hold their nerve and vote through as many changes as possible.

 

I hope that these proposed changes are all discussed prior to the vote on Rangers being invited back in as the chairmen need leverage over at least one end of the Old Firm to vote through some of the proposals.

 

I love watching Motherwell as much as the next dosser and try to get to as many home games as I can as I know that any money I spend on match day goes into the coffers of my club. Like most on here if Rangers showed even a shred of dignity or humility about their own situation rather than doing their damdest to blame anyone but themselves I would also be better placed to forgive.

 

 

Every SPL club outwith the Old Firm need to stand together and get these changes through or it will remain the same until the league dies as it surely will in its current format with the rest fighting for the crumbs from the Old Firm feast. As soon as the changes are done then they need to redress the SKY deal if not this one then on renewal telling them to get tae and get back to Saturday kick offs. Clubs have survived for many years without TV and can do so again by living within their means and bringing through their own players.

 

 

I would love to see the SPL with sponsors other than from TV companies and those tasked with finding those type of sponsors need to start earning their wage. It might not be anywhere near what SKY might offer but at least the clubs and fans will be in control of the game again and no more weird kick off times. Maybe this country needs to get off the radar of world TV via SKY to rebuild our product from the bottom up until we can become competitive again on the domestic and then the European and World stage.

 

 

It wasnt that long ago we were winning European trophies with home based players and its high time we ditched the corporate greed and got back to rearing our own and playing football within our own financial constraints which must be cemented in stone in the constitution of the SFA to prevent and protect our clubs from greedy chairmen and companies.