Motherwell V Celtic 22/4/12 Discussion

[Andy_P]

Very very deflating in the end.

 

The longer the game went on the more quietly confident I was feeling. We looked fairly solid at the back and had bags of possession. When the ineffectual Daley was replaced with Ojamaa it seemed we were about to add a bit of attacking edge to what was a sound platform, so for it all to fall apart in the last half an hour feels like a right boot in the chuckies.

 

There was never three goals in it, but for all our possession when it boiled down to it when it came to the final third we were lightweight and they took their chances.

 

But it's gone. Bigger fish to fry now beginning with St Johnstone on Saturday.

[DEWELL]

I honestly think it'll go to the last game v Utd at home in which we'll need to win cos they'll beat Hearts at home and Hearts will beat us assuming we both lose the 2 games v the O.F. I think we'll get a 1-1 draw with St Johnstone. We'll finish 4th cos Utd will beat us they'll bring a big support like Aberdeen did in the cup and our arse will fall off as it's done in every big game this season. <_>

[mfc]

I honestly think it'll go to the last game v Utd at home in which we'll need to win cos they'll beat Hearts at home and Hearts will beat us assuming we both lose the 2 games v the O.F. I think we'll get a 1-1 draw with St Johnstone. We'll finish 4th cos Utd will beat us they'll bring a big support like Aberdeen did in the cup and our arse will fall off as it's done in every big game this season. <_>

 

what about the last time utd brought a big support to fir park

[joewarkfanclub]

I think people are overestimating the significance of today's result, Our rivals for 3rd have all still to play Celtic and with the exception of Hearts Rangers. the significant results for us will be against St Johnstone , Dundee United and Hearts.

 

Some people maybe Al but I think most are just upset about the manner in which we lost today against Celtic Reserves.

 

Our performances in the last 3/4 weeks have been poor.

 

If we had lost today playing really well having had a real go then I think the tone would be a lot different and we could have confidence going into next week.

 

Both the players and the fans need to regroup and hold our nerve.

[Mitch]

The inclusion of Omar Daley was a joke from McCall. I don't remember anything positive he has contributed to the team since his goal in the fixture away to Aberdeen. The guy is hopeless.

 

Thought Hutchinson and Jennings were the best of a bad bunch.

 

Hammell was left badly exposed for the first goal as Ojaama didnt track back beyond the half way line (something Daley also fails to do). I also don't think Randolph covered himself in glory at the first either, however my view wasnt great from the other side of the East Stand.

 

We were set up to try and get a 0-0 from that match. Celtic could have easily been 3 or 4 nil up at half time. We rode our luck far too much in the first half.

 

Disappointing with an lacklustre performance against the Old Firm. I am starting to think I won't ever see us beat them again!

 

MASSIVE match next Saturday against St Johnstone. Nothing but 3 points will be acceptable from that match. Also need to hope that Hearts do us a favour over Dundee United, however they look like they only have the cup final in mind and United are going like a train!

[star sail]

hows about the following team for remaining games:-

 

saunders hutchinson Clancy Hammell

law, lasley jennings and hateley

murphy and higdon

 

 

 

 

 

Why would you make space for Hateley in that team?

[Pepper]

What I worry about is the teams around us picking up points from Celtic who to me were clearly in holiday mode today. Those points could prove vital and i gear that our inability to take advantage today could be what costs us 3rd.

[star sail]

We will beat St Johnstone next week. What today showed for me is that the gap between 2nd and 3rd is massive. 3rd to 12th in the SPL have little between them. It literally is two leagues in one. That was a training match for Celtic today and they won at a canter.

 

For this season anyway though I think we will be best of the rest. It is a slightly hollow feeling though this eve.

[star sail]

What I worry about is the teams around us picking up points from Celtic who to me were clearly in holiday mode today. Those points could prove vital and i gear that our inability to take advantage today could be what costs us 3rd.

 

 

Beat St J, Hearts and Utd and the results against the OF won't matter. It has served us well so far this season. We need to see it out now.

[steelboy]

 

What today showed for me is that the gap between 2nd and 3rd is massive. 3rd to 12th in the SPL have little between them.

 

dowie keddie potter mccann

[East_Stand_Al]

Some people maybe Al but I think most are just upset about the manner in which we lost today against Celtic Reserves.

 

Our performances in the last 3/4 weeks have been poor.

 

If we had lost today playing really well having had a real go then I think the tone would be a lot different and we could have confidence going into next week.

 

Both the players and the fans need to regroup and hold our nerve.

 

Seems a fair assessment, I hate how we always stand off the OF and allow them to play how they want, bare in mind the "Youngster" who scored twice today cost around £100k.

 

All we have to do going forward is to match or better Dundee Uniteds resuts.

[star sail]

dowie keddie potter mccann

 

So you think that Motherwell are closer in ability to Rangers/ Celtic than they are to Dunfermline? What about Hibs in 11th? McPake, O Conner, Griffiths, Sproule etc.

 

17-1 is our Cumulative score against Celtic in the last 6 games. Motherwell and Celtic are leagues apart.

[Steelettosnatalie]

Hi guys, I was just wondering if any of e Motherwell fans have videos any of the performances from the steelettos at half time? We usually have someone video it but it's from our box and it's not very clear and unfortunately we can't get some one to video from the side of the pitch. Thanks xx

[roly]

Seems a fair assessment, I hate how we always stand off the OF and allow them to play how they want, bare in mind the "Youngster" who scored twice today cost around £

 

I think their third goal is the perfect example of why it's important to stand off and not over-commit against teams that are clearly better than you.

 

It's all very well pointing out that it was a younger player that scored the important goals. I've always believed its much easier for young guys to make an impact with the OF as they are fed by international class players.

 

That said the lad took his chances well and my well be one to watch.

 

There's no point getting as het up about this result as everyone seems to be. I already had it written off. The performance (with the exception of Daley) is now where near as bad as some are making out. Play like that against Utd and St. J and we'll likely take something from them.

[that hat]

Another gutless performance.

 

I remember Terry Butcher getting Tom Lucas in to overcome issues with the 'Well team.

 

Looks like McCall and Black need to do the same to overcome this fear that places us alongside Dunfermline and Hibs as the teams that afford the OF far too much respect.

[Ya Bezzer!]

Playing the system we did today was a bit of a joke. On one hand you can perhaps say McCall tried something a little different and it didn't work but I think it was obvious it wouldn't work because Higdon needs someone to play off. This we knew.

 

Daley was poor today and how he started ahead of Murphy I'm not sure. In fact I think dropping Murphy has been a disastrous move by McCall. Murphy, who I ought to remind you is the clubs top goalscorer from open play this season, has missed 6 league matches this season and we've only won one of them, even though 4 of them were home matches, and we've scoring a whopping 0.5 goals per game when Murphy hasn't started. The only match we won in those six we had to rely on Stevie Hammell hitting a 30 yarder against a hopeless Aberdeen team.

 

Our attack is denuded without Murphy. He has quiet matches of course but we are a hell of a lot worse without him. Can anyone honestly say we have been improved by dropping him? At Kilmarnock? At Hibs? Earlier in the season against Dundee Utd when we hardly got a shot on target? Today?

 

Carswell? Don't want to be harsh on the lad I've never seen anything from him to suggest he's a SPL player. I was at Accies last week and I saw youngsters who impressed me more in 90 minutes than Carswell has in almost a full season.

 

Tom Hateley? Has been absolutely rank rotten for quite a while now. I don't know if Saunders is ready to come back into the first team at this crucial part of the season but I don't see how he can be any worse than Hateley.

 

Next week is a must win but it will not be an easy match. St.Johnstone gave us our biggest humping of the season at Fir Park last September and gave us a very tough match in the last encounter.

[Lobey_Dosser]

Playing the system we did today was a bit of a joke. On one hand you can perhaps say McCall tried something a little different and it didn't work but I think it was obvious it wouldn't work because Higdon needs someone to play off. This we knew.

 

Daley was poor today and how he started ahead of Murphy I'm not sure. In fact I think dropping Murphy has been a disastrous move by McCall. Murphy, who I ought to remind you is the clubs top goalscorer from open play this season, has missed 6 league matches this season and we've only won one of them, even though 4 of them were home matches, and we've scoring a whopping 0.5 goals per game when Murphy hasn't started. The only match we won in those six we had to rely on Stevie Hammell hitting a 30 yarder against a hopeless Aberdeen team.

 

Our attack is denuded without Murphy. He has quiet matches of course but we are a hell of a lot worse without him. Can anyone honestly say we have been improved by dropping him? At Kilmarnock? At Hibs? Earlier in the season against Dundee Utd when we hardly got a shot on target? Today?

 

Carswell? Don't want to be harsh on the lad I've never seen anything from him to suggest he's a SPL player. I was at Accies last week and I saw youngsters who impressed me more in 90 minutes than Carswell has in almost a full season.

 

Tom Hateley? Has been absolutely rank rotten for quite a while now. I don't know if Saunders is ready to come back into the first team at this crucial part of the season but I don't see how he can be any worse than Hateley.

 

Next week is a must win but it will not be an easy match. St.Johnstone gave us our biggest humping of the season at Fir Park last September and gave us a very tough match in the last encounter.

 

Excellent post.

 

Agree completely re Murphy, Carswell and Hateley.

[roly]

Excellent post.

 

Agree completely re Murphy, Carswell and Hateley.

 

Murphy was dropped for good reason. It's worth pointing out he came off the bench in most of the games he didn't start and added nothing. He'll get more chances in the run in and hopefully he performs better than he has since the transfer window closed.

 

Carswell had a decent game for a young guy today. Certainly didn't let himself down. He is purely backup though and I wouldn't want to be relying on him. He's got minimal first team experience and we shouldn't be harsh on him after a defeat against Celtic.

 

Hateley I somewhat agree with. I critisized him here following the Hibs game, but eventually came to the realisation that he basically a Motherwell standard player. Sometime decent, sometimes shite but mostly frustrating.

 

I still think we can take points from St Johnstone, Hearts and Dundee Utd. That could well be enough. If we don't we've still had a decent season.

[Martin]

McCall's first words in his interview sums us up against the old firm. "We thought before the game we could get a point."

[Kmcalpin]

From the time I saw our lineup on television before leaving the pub I knew we weren't going to take anything from this game today. Playing Higdon up front by himself set off alarm bells in my head, and my worst fears were confirmed when we played a defensive game throughout the first half.......It was always odds-on that Celtic would score eventually, and when they did that it would then be a case of damage limitation. Other clubs who have seen success against either of the Old Firm have all went at them in an attacking fashion, showing them no respect.

 

We aren't capable of doing that, for whatever reason.

 

Our players, and possibly our manager, is intimidated by the shirts these players wear. Simple as that.

 

Good post. In my book though it was damage limitation from kick off. You didn't have to be a rocket scientist to conclude that we'd put the wrong team on the park playing the wrong tactics.Have we not learnt anything since last year? A 4-5-1 formation just doesn't work. I also thought that playing Omar Daley in a wide midfield role had been tried several times and been completely discredited.

 

Apologies for sounding like a broken record, but Michael Higdon (my MOTM incidentally) found himself totally isolated up front. The 2 wingers were playing far too far away to link up and our central midfield seemed reluctant to push forward. He won ball after ball with knock downs and flicks but there simply wasn't anyone near him to take advantage. Even on the attack, we struggled to get bodies in Celtic's box. Higgy often found himself on his own in the box and marked by 3 defenders when waiting for a cross to come in.

 

Playing a cautious game we gave Celtic far too much respect and they looked far hungrier and determined than we did. Playing so deep you run the risk of every error being punished and the rest is history.

 

We missed Keith Lasley badly, and the inexperienced Stuart Carswell found the going at this level just too tough. However, we missed him when he was taken off to be replaced by an out of form Jamie Murphy, who seemed determined to play at left back. Jenno tried to do the work of two in the first half but buckled after the break. Our two full backs had games they'll want to forget.

 

Time to look at other options if we're hit by absences again. If we play as badly next week we'll take another beating. A big change in attitude is required.

 

In short a team challenging for 3rd spot and a CL place simply didn't look up for it.

[Martin]

How people can give Higdon MOTM baffles me. I'm in no way a higdon hater type but he's just outstandingly average. For a striker/attacker he does very little striking or attacking. The only thing he does successfully is hold up the ball and lay it off, even then he gives away a foul half the time.

 

I feel people are giving him an easy ride cos of all the shite earlier in the season.

[Ya Bezzer!]

Murphy was dropped for good reason. It's worth pointing out he came off the bench in most of the games he didn't start and added nothing. He'll get more chances in the run in and hopefully he performs better than he has since the transfer window closed.

 

He didn't come on in two of the five matches recently. In the three he did come on in we were already well beaten in two of them and the only game that was in the balance we scored an equalizer after he came on.

 

Just so you get your facts right.

[David]

To be fair to McCall, it wasn't that long ago that everyone was clamouring for Murphy to get some benchtime. He looked jaded and out of sorts. Now we lose a few games against the Old Firm and it was a mistake to drop him?

 

It was a mistake setting up camp to get a point from this game. The players were obivously under instruction to play on the counter and look to defend, which they never do, so it's harsh to blame them for the result.

 

Such a gameplan may be the reason why so many of them looked out of sorts.

[Kmcalpin]

Some interesting comments on a few players.

 

Stuart Carswell? Like one or two others I can't quite see what SM sees in him. Maybe its the type of player he is - a Marc Fitzpatrick sort who does the routine unglamorous cleaning up/tidying up, feeding others role. Looked out if his depth yesterday but we did play worse after he left the field it has to be said.

 

Michael Higdon: he's one dimensional but he does what he does well. The problem is that Stuart McCall is playing a system that doesn't suit him, especially 4-5-1. He's not mobile but he won a lot of ball yesterday but didn't do much with it due to complete lack of support. John Sutton was exactly the same last season.

 

Jamie Murphy: the lad has been played out of position this season and his confidence suffered. Hardly beat his man at all yesterday and its plain to see a requirement to help out in defence doesn't suit his talents. He put in a stuttering / hesistant / ill at ease performance when he came on yesterday. A few round about us questioned the wisdom of this particular substitution and I have to agree.

[The Skipper]

Champions League !!!!! More like Highland League.