MJC_MKI Posted April 17, 2012 Report Share Posted April 17, 2012 That's cos we're pants against the Mould Firm. 4-0 to the tattiemunchers. They'll be mad about Hearts beating em and the Neil Lennon the whole world hates me syndrome will have them fired up tae feck. We'll get horsed. + 1 The sad fact is that whilst the likes of Hearts, Dundee Utd, St.Johnstone and even Kilmarnock and St.Mirren are able to take results off of either Celtic and/or Rangers, we just don't have the belief, bottle or savvy in our squad to do so. Sunday will be no different, Celtic will get three points as per usual and the only question is whether they hammer us or if we'll gift them it through piss poor defending or discipline. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
star sail Posted April 17, 2012 Report Share Posted April 17, 2012 + 1 The sad fact is that whilst the likes of Hearts, Dundee Utd, St.Johnstone and even Kilmarnock and St.Mirren are able to take results off of either Celtic and/or Rangers, we just don't have the belief, bottle or savvy in our squad to do so. Sunday will be no different, Celtic will get three points as per usual and the only question is whether they hammer us or if we'll gift them it through piss poor defending or discipline. They don't have the belief and I think we have to lie the blame for that at McCall's door. Quotes about results against the OF not mattering and a refusal to voice ambition in the fight for second in the league (even when we were level on points with Rangers) result in a team that give the OF far to much respect. It was summed up for me in the last Celtic game at FP when Motherwell totally dominated for the first 10-15 mins, scored then within a minute of the re-start gifted Celtic a corner that they duly scored from. They simply panicked when they got there noses in front. The Cup Final as well, one of my saddest days as a Well fan when it should have been a celebration. Keep telling a team that the OF are superior and they will start to believe it. Can't see any change on Sunday. Celtic win, Well will still finish the season in third place though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay Posted April 17, 2012 Report Share Posted April 17, 2012 They don't have the belief and I think we have to lie the blame for that at McCall's door. Quotes about results against the OF not mattering and a refusal to voice ambition in the fight for second in the league (even when we were level on points with Rangers) result in a team that give the OF far to much respect. Only if the same comments are made in the dressing room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
star sail Posted April 17, 2012 Report Share Posted April 17, 2012 Only if the same comments are made in the dressing room. I can understand that train of thought but performances and results would suggest that what is said in the dressing roomto counterbalance McCall's public words has not been working. Take the last two OF games alone, both lost from an inability to defend throw in's. That suggests a nervousness in the last quarter of the game that stems from a lack of belief. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatcalf Posted April 17, 2012 Report Share Posted April 17, 2012 + 1 The sad fact is that whilst the likes of Hearts, Dundee Utd, St.Johnstone and even Kilmarnock and St.Mirren are able to take results off of either Celtic and/or Rangers, we just don't have the belief, bottle or savvy in our squad to do so. Sunday will be no different, Celtic will get three points as per usual and the only question is whether they hammer us or if we'll gift them it through piss poor defending or discipline. You've just went back and requoted that from the week before Skippy Sunday, Found oot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay Posted April 17, 2012 Report Share Posted April 17, 2012 I can understand that train of thought but performances and results would suggest that what is said in the dressing roomto counterbalance McCall's public words has not been working. No, results would suggest that the Old Firm are better than us. And given Allan McGregor picked up Man of the Match for Rangers in a game they needed a shite injury time winner to snatch, I don't agree that all performances suggest that McCall's public words have a particular impact on these games. If a manager answering questions in the media in a certain manner is enough to make well-paid professional football players shite themselves when they take the field against particular teams, then it is entirely down to their extremely poor mentality IMO, especially when - I assume - everyone would agree it's not what he's telling them every day in training and in the dressing room before matches. Take the last two OF games alone, both lost from an inability to defend throw in's. That suggests a nervousness in the last quarter of the game that stems from a lack of belief. It suggests that just as much as it suggests we just can't defend throw ins properly. And even if you're correct - that's simply a sign of poor mentality on the part of the player(s), regardless of what the manager told Chic Young four days previous. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lobey_Dosser Posted April 17, 2012 Report Share Posted April 17, 2012 What I don't want to hear this week is that we have to score first to have a chance against the old firm. I find that quite a defeatist attitude. Anyway, it hasn'tt done us any favours in the last two FP performances against the old firm, where we have defended terribly within minutes of going 1 up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
star sail Posted April 17, 2012 Report Share Posted April 17, 2012 No, results would suggest that the Old Firm are better than us. In the last five Motherwell v Celtic fixtures the cumulative score is 14-1 in celtics favour. The record against rangers in that same time frame is as bad if not worse. Are the OF really that much better than the team sitting 3rd in the SPL? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay Posted April 17, 2012 Report Share Posted April 17, 2012 In the last five Motherwell v Celtic fixtures the cumulative score is 14-1 in celtics favour. The record against rangers in that same time frame is as bad if not worse. Are the OF really that much better than the team sitting 3rd in the SPL? Not at all, we've been woeful in a lot of those matches. However, my point is that simply blaming McCall's comments in the media during the week before an Old Firm game seems pretty ridiculous to me. If those comments genuinely do have an effect - and I don't for a second believe they do - then it shows that a lot of our players are earning a very good wage playing for our club despite not actually having the required mentality to play at this level, and says far, far more about them than it does about Stuart McCall. Terry Butcher used to get pelters for his 'punching above our weight' chat and talking us down and yet was in charge of the Motherwell side that last beat Rangers in the same season we also did Celtic. Why? Because the players had the mentality, despite being young, to go out there believing they could do the business. If this current crop of players don't then that's an issue with them, not their manager. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
star sail Posted April 17, 2012 Report Share Posted April 17, 2012 Fair comment. Let's just hope the players can show us that they do have the mentality this sun because a win wld be massive. Cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJC_MKI Posted April 18, 2012 Report Share Posted April 18, 2012 You've just went back and requoted that from the week before Skippy Sunday, Found oot. No I didn't and I prove that by the fact that neither St.Johnstone nor St.Mirren were in the SPL in season 2004/2005... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Mac Posted April 18, 2012 Report Share Posted April 18, 2012 Question: How many of the great unwashed are liable to turn up? This is a completely meaningless game for them, after all. "Your season's over.....why don't you stay home?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Skipper Posted April 18, 2012 Report Share Posted April 18, 2012 All of the Celtic fans that live in Lanarkshire will probably turn up as it's the only game they can afford to go to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatcalf Posted April 18, 2012 Report Share Posted April 18, 2012 No I didn't and I prove that by the fact that neither St.Johnstone nor St.Mirren were in the SPL in season 2004/2005... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted April 18, 2012 Report Share Posted April 18, 2012 In the last five Motherwell v Celtic fixtures the cumulative score is 14-1 in celtics favour. The record against rangers in that same time frame is as bad if not worse. Are the OF really that much better than the team sitting 3rd in the SPL? i think our team is well equipped to beat the other diddies but the type of players we have will struggle against the old firm. other than hutchy there isn't a player in our team you would describe as a good athlete. against rangers the other week seeing guys like whittaker, papac, bartley, mcculloch, edu and lafferty up against our guys was like men against wee boys. even steve davis who is wee looks like he doesn't have an ounce of fat on him and is much quicker than any of our players. it was the same in the leeds game during the summer, they are just an average championship side but they were bigger and faster across the board. players that have ability and athleticism are well out of our budget. we've brought hutchy through and we did well getting jutkiewicz on loan but they are very much the exception. our style of play is working well for us at the moment so i think we should stick with it rather than signing a few bruisers to give us a better shout against the old firm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatcalf Posted April 18, 2012 Report Share Posted April 18, 2012 i think our team is well equipped to beat the other diddies but the type of players we have will struggle against the old firm. players that have ability and athleticism are well out of our budget. we've brought hutchy through and we did well getting jutkiewicz on loan but they are very much the exception. our style of play is working well for us at the moment so i think we should stick with it rather than signing a few bruisers to give us a better shout against the old firm. Agreed, fact is we are where we are due to our ability to beat everyone else on a regular basis. Much as I love beating the Old Firm the bigger picture is we can qualify for Europe without doing that so I'm not all that fussed. Rather that than finish bottom whilst beating everyone in the top 6 but no-one around us. Let's face it, if we could beat the Old Firm we'd be Champions, and that's not going to happen realistically is it? I'll take what we have currently thank you very much. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milo Posted April 18, 2012 Report Share Posted April 18, 2012 I fully expect a defeat but will still be really down if that comes to pass. A draw wouldn't be the worst result provided Utd and Saints draw on Saturday. Who knows though? I predict Celtic will get some major decisions as the authorities seek to counter the mhankies foundationless grievancies from last Sunday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted April 18, 2012 Report Share Posted April 18, 2012 i think our team is well equipped to beat the other diddies but the type of players we have will struggle against the old firm. other than hutchy there isn't a player in our team you would describe as a good athlete. against rangers the other week seeing guys like whittaker, papac, bartley, mcculloch, edu and lafferty up against our guys was like men against wee boys. even steve davis who is wee looks like he doesn't have an ounce of fat on him and is much quicker than any of our players. it was the same in the leeds game during the summer, they are just an average championship side but they were bigger and faster across the board. players that have ability and athleticism are well out of our budget. we've brought hutchy through and we did well getting jutkiewicz on loan but they are very much the exception. our style of play is working well for us at the moment so i think we should stick with it rather than signing a few bruisers to give us a better shout against the old firm. Good post. I've been saying the same thing for years mate and been castigated for it. At our level we can afford talented players OR big strong "athletes" but not both. Big fast players don't equate to hammer throwers or cloggers, as many think. If Whittaker challenged Steve Hammell for a 50/50 ball there would only be one winner and it wouldn't be Stevie. A physically strong player in my book is someone who is going to win more than his fair share of balls in the air, win more than his fair share of 50/50 balls and can hold the ball when battered by hulking defenders or strikers. The Juke was what I would call a physical player - he could look after himself but was never dirty or a hatchetman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted April 18, 2012 Report Share Posted April 18, 2012 Good post. I've been saying the same thing for years mate and been castigated for it. At our level we can afford talented players OR big strong "athletes" but not both. our system and style at present is working well for us so i don't see any value in overhauling to do slightly better against the old firm. if you look at a league table without the old firm we are fairly dominant and even if we tweeked the team to be more competitive against the old firm the gains would be minimal. i just had a quick google and the spl ranks 27 out of the 31 top leagues in europe in terms of height and the average height in the top 5 five leagues is a shade under 6ft. it's funny how we often hear about the need to take the focus of physical stature when (i) we are relative weeds (ii) bannan, maloney and others show that good small players will make it no problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted April 18, 2012 Report Share Posted April 18, 2012 Only if the same comments are made in the dressing room. Exactly what I was thinking. McCall's comments in public may not be the same as what he says behind closed doors. Well, I'd certainly hope they aren't! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underboyleheating Posted April 19, 2012 Report Share Posted April 19, 2012 The weakest Old Firm in years...blah, blah. We will hammer them, blah, blah. Celtic are in free fall, blah, blah. Neil Lennon is tactically inept, blah, blah. 3-1 Celtic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joeboy Posted April 19, 2012 Report Share Posted April 19, 2012 Aye, can't say I disagree with underboyleheating, writing this one off. Anything we could get would be a welcome surprise but I can't see it. As mentioned earlier in the thread, the refs will be shiting it to give anything against Celtic, which won't help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Craig Posted April 19, 2012 Report Share Posted April 19, 2012 The weakest Old Firm in years...blah, blah. We will hammer them, blah, blah. Celtic are in free fall, blah, blah. Neil Lennon is tactically inept, blah, blah. 3-1 Celtic. Think we may surprise them, because their season is over... You forgot that one UBH Fuck it. we'll just have to wait and see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East_Stand_Al Posted April 19, 2012 Report Share Posted April 19, 2012 Do I got to work on Sunday and cry off sick at Lunchtime or just pull an all day sicky? Dilemma Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJC_MKI Posted April 19, 2012 Report Share Posted April 19, 2012 Think we may surprise them, because their season is over... You forgot that one UBH Fuck it. we'll just have to wait and see. So what? Rangers season was well and truly over when they came to Fir Park at the end of March but guess what? They still managed to waltz away with the points after we'd turned in yet another inept, gutless and gormless display against them. Sunday will be no different and anyone who thinks, or pretends to think otherwise is kidding themselves. This will be the first season in God knows how many years that we do not take one single point from either Celtic or Rangers. I'll also stick my neck out right now and say that we will not take another point off of either of them (or beat them in a Cup game) whilst Stuart McCall is our manager. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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