weeyin Posted January 15, 2013 Report Share Posted January 15, 2013 Stop accepting derisory bids and telling the media we're a selling club every time a transfer window is about to open. Then we will have to be content with losing players on freedom of contract every window. We have a policy of bringing in players for free (or through the youth ranks), and paying fairly low wages. You don't generate big transfer fees that way, but you do balance the books. With one or two exceptions, the guys we have sold haven't exactly excelled down south, so you could just as easily argue we are getting the best of those deals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frazzie Posted January 15, 2013 Report Share Posted January 15, 2013 There is only one former Motherwell player playing anywhere that you could look at and be pleased with the amount we received for them. That is a shocking state of affairs when you consider the number of comings and goings we've had in the past decade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 15, 2013 Report Share Posted January 15, 2013 There is only one former Motherwell player playing anywhere that you could look at and be pleased with the amount we received for them. That is a shocking state of affairs when you consider the number of comings and goings we've had in the past decade. True enough. I'm not sure if the collection of players that have lost us to go on to wholly unremarkable careers down south is really helping us. I just don't see that not saying we're a selling club makes any difference, because everyone knows it. Dundee United are the obvious example of a club 'doing well' in the transfer market, but Goodwillie was very much the exception to the rule for them. No-one in Scotland does particularly well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lobey_Dosser Posted January 15, 2013 Report Share Posted January 15, 2013 Fyvie 500k, Johnsson 500k, McGowan 500k, Maguire 400k, Allan 400k. Murphy 110k. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GazzyB Posted January 15, 2013 Report Share Posted January 15, 2013 Fyvie 500k, Johnsson 500k, McGowan 500k, Maguire 400k, Allan 400k. Murphy 110k. Would be interesting to know the contract situations of all the guys above when they were sold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fizoxy Posted January 15, 2013 Report Share Posted January 15, 2013 I guess you could also look at it from the point of view of what a player is worth to a selling club. If a premiership club sells a player they can lose marketing revenue, and possibly ticketing revenue, which could be significant due to large supports. There is also the potential loss in prize money from losing a key player, which is significantly higher in the English leagues. Since a relatively small number of players posess the skill set to play at that level, I would imagine the cost of replacing him would also be high. Then there is the fact that at the higher levels, should a player be made available there would be more than one club bidding, driving up the price. I know the above is an extreme case, but in Scotland the maximum potential value a player can have to a non old firm club is the difference between an average attendance and a full house, the prize money for 2nd place, and the money generated by an early round European run. I don't think merchandising would be a significant factor, and this would only be for the better players. Then there is the fact that there are very few players in Scotland with a level of skill that couldn't be acquired from elsewhere. Factor in the Scottish football economy (low attendances, poor tv deal, many clubs in debt) and you can see why transfer fees are low, because there is no way teams are going to pay silly prices just because. Finally, the market usually determines the price, and when it comes to Scottish football it is a buyers market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted January 15, 2013 Report Share Posted January 15, 2013 Fyvie 500k, Johnsson 500k, McGowan 500k, Maguire 400k, Allan 400k. Murphy 110k. i think a part of it is that we don't build up our players. aberdeen, dundee united and the edinburgh clubs' fans are all deluded enough to think they are big clubs and have local press which tell them they are: P&J, courier, EEN, the scotsman. that gives them a mini old firm mentality and they are desperate to believe that their players are better than they are. a little hype goes a long way: look at danny wilson and john fleck or even wanyama who was moved into the £10m bracket as quickly as izziguire and kayal were moved out it. there is no benefit for the media to hype up our players and our fans are too grounded/pessimistic to do so. when murphy was picked ahead of godwillie for the u21 playoff and was superb in both matches we should have been shouting from the roof tops about him and doing everything we could to market him as an exciting young goalscorer. instead he got papped out wide so alan gow could play up front. united and their media pals made goodwillie out to be the next big thing despite the fact that he was up on rape and assualt charges and most of his goals that season being tap ins, penalties and deflections and got £2m. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lobey_Dosser Posted January 15, 2013 Report Share Posted January 15, 2013 Would be interesting to know the contract situations of all the guys above when they were sold. The only one that possibly had longer than 6 months on his contract would be Allan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fizoxy Posted January 15, 2013 Report Share Posted January 15, 2013 I'd agree that we could be more agressive in promoting our players, but we as fans would counteract that pretty quickly after a bad game or two. I think the clubs of the players mentioned above prob pay higher wages and spend more on the players overall development, but I'm sure the perception of them being a bigger club adds a premium to the price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lobey_Dosser Posted January 15, 2013 Report Share Posted January 15, 2013 i think a part of it is that we don't build up our players. aberdeen, dundee united and the edinburgh clubs' fans are all deluded enough to think they are big clubs and have local press which tell them they are: P&J, courier, EEN, the scotsman. that gives them a mini old firm mentality and they are desperate to believe that their players are better than they are. a little hype goes a long way: look at danny wilson and john fleck or even wanyama who was moved into the £10m bracket as quickly as izziguire and kayal were moved out it. there is no benefit for the media to hype up our players and our fans are too grounded/pessimistic to do so. when murphy was picked ahead of godwillie for the u21 playoff and was superb in both matches we should have been shouting from the roof tops about him and doing everything we could to market him as an exciting young goalscorer. instead he got papped out wide so alan gow could play up front. united and their media pals made goodwillie out to be the next big thing despite the fact that he was up on rape and assualt charges and most of his goals that season being tap ins, penalties and deflections and got £2m. Agreed Steelboy, we are useless at hyping up our players and have nobody from the media selling us. Even St Mirren have Chick Young talking up Kevin McLean to the extent that the bbc would have you believe he is worth 750k. While Murphy was outstanding in the playoffs, it's unbelievable that Goodwillie and Griffiths, both stuck on the bench, have netted more than 2.6 mil in fees. There was only one player on the pitch that night at Easter Road who was better than Murphy and he moved for 6 mil soon after. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Diggle Posted January 15, 2013 Report Share Posted January 15, 2013 I'm confused when we say 'hyping up' does that include the verbal abuse and booing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy_P Posted January 15, 2013 Report Share Posted January 15, 2013 I still think there remains a value from a player that isn't always apparent in a transfer fee. I mean Aberdeen got £500k for Fyvie or United £400k for Allan but what exactly did their time with them amount to? How many games did they play for example? What did they achieve in their time with those clubs? What we may have lost out in a transfer fee from Murphy we most certainly gained on the park during his time with us in comparison to some of those listed. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaka Posted January 16, 2013 Report Share Posted January 16, 2013 I'd be interested to see how these transfer fees are ironed out. I assume things like the cost of developmment, time at the club, players current wage, age/experience, cost of replacement, etc, are factors. I'm sure these aren't arbitrary amounts, and there must be some sort of accounting practices for it considering the size of the industry. Based on this it may be that we as a club aren't getting ripped of as much as we think. We get £150k plus add ons for Murphy,Killie get £200k plus add ons for Kelly! Nah we ain't getting ripped off at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted January 16, 2013 Report Share Posted January 16, 2013 I think the clubs of the players mentioned above prob pay higher wages and spend more on the players overall development, but I'm sure the perception of them being a bigger club adds a premium to the price. What constitutes a "bigger club" in your opinion? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nethertonwellfan Posted January 16, 2013 Report Share Posted January 16, 2013 What constitutes a "bigger club" in your opinion? Bigger in terms that they have a higher average attendance than us and can offer more money. Also perception has a part to play in it , if the buying club think that Aberdeen are a bigger club than Motherwell then that's all that matters with regards to bigger transfer fees, and the same goes with all the others. I know you weren't asking me but I thought I'd throw in my tuppence worth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dosser chris Posted January 16, 2013 Report Share Posted January 16, 2013 Jamie's build has let him down,thats why i think no lower prem,champ club has took a gamble on him hence no big transfer fee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nethertonwellfan Posted January 16, 2013 Report Share Posted January 16, 2013 I didn't think you needed to be built like a tank to play fitba these days. How did Messi ever get a game? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dosser chris Posted January 16, 2013 Report Share Posted January 16, 2013 you don't have to be built like a tank but you have to be built like a man,i know bigger'stronger 14 year old's than jamie.Why would they pay 1m+ for a player that can get nudged of the ball so easily? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted January 16, 2013 Report Share Posted January 16, 2013 you don't have to be built like a tank but you have to be built like a man,i know bigger'stronger 14 year old's than jamie.Why would they pay 1m+ for a player that can get nudged of the ball so easily? Because you can take that footballing talent and easily add body strength. You can't take body strength and easily add footballing talent. How much body strength did McCarthy have when he joined Wigan for 1.2 million? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dosser chris Posted January 16, 2013 Report Share Posted January 16, 2013 If he can easily add body strength why hasn't he done it before,McCarthy was 18 when he joined wigan,jamie's 23. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted January 16, 2013 Report Share Posted January 16, 2013 he did add body strength the last couple of seasons. he is always going to be rake thin though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al B Posted January 16, 2013 Report Share Posted January 16, 2013 i think a part of it is that we don't build up our players. aberdeen, dundee united and the edinburgh clubs' fans are all deluded enough to think they are big clubs and have local press which tell them they are: P&J, courier, EEN, the scotsman. that gives them a mini old firm mentality and they are desperate to believe that their players are better than they are. a little hype goes a long way: look at danny wilson and john fleck or even wanyama who was moved into the £10m bracket as quickly as izziguire and kayal were moved out it. there is no benefit for the media to hype up our players and our fans are too grounded/pessimistic to do so. when murphy was picked ahead of godwillie for the u21 playoff and was superb in both matches we should have been shouting from the roof tops about him and doing everything we could to market him as an exciting young goalscorer. instead he got papped out wide so alan gow could play up front. united and their media pals made goodwillie out to be the next big thing despite the fact that he was up on rape and assualt charges and most of his goals that season being tap ins, penalties and deflections and got £2m. That's absolutely bang on the money, and it's from the highest level at the club right down to the fans. Our club mentality has always been "let's not get carried away", and it's let us down in everything from player values/transfers/PR, to European performances and results....and occasionally even league finishes. As far as the fans go, you only have to look at the difference between fan reactions when United had a few non-entities called up to the Scotland squad and they defended the inclusion of guys like Gary Kenneth to the hilt. Steven Saunders gets a call up and what did we do? We laughed and said...good luck to the boy but how did that happen?! We're talking about why Jamie Murphy's transfer value here, and two major reasons for the level it was at are these: If he'd been called up to the Scotland squad last season, there would be 5 pages on here congratulating him...and 5 pages saying he was nowhere near good enough for Scotland and shouldn't have been picked. Our clubs official response would have been along the lines of "he works hard and deserves his chance, but we've got a lot of hard working boys here. It's a good experience for him to be in and around the squad, and hopefully if we're doing well he might get 10/15 mins" We are RIDICULOUS for this "punching above our weight" nonsense. You are where you are and you either make the most of it, or you sit and wonder why every one else is getting stuff that you aren't. You can play fair and then sit and moan about other clubs, or you can get stuck in and try to take what you want. This niceness as a club does my nut in. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tickle Pickle Posted January 16, 2013 Report Share Posted January 16, 2013 In terms of the last 10-15 years with league placements, european qualifications and cup runs, I would say Motherwell are the 3rd or 4th biggest team in the country.... Despite not winning anything. Only thing lacking; - Attendances - Trophies - Financial backing and I agree, the whole "niceness" of us is horrible... We need to stand up and be counted, demand more for our players in with transfers, demand more from our players on the park and I think when we are sitting joint 2nd in the league in January maybe take the gamble and dip into the kitty for that last push and finish second... Whos to say that next year teams like us, Hibs, Aberdeen, Dundee United dont just bite the bullet and go for the title because Celtic are pish and it is a feat that is well entruly in our grasps if we have a can do attitude accepting nothing but the win like the Old Firm have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al B Posted January 16, 2013 Report Share Posted January 16, 2013 I don't think you can demand more for our players in transfers, because other clubs will only bid what they feel the player is worth, and we're not in a financial position to be turning many bids down. Where we can have an influence though, is in how other clubs view the players of ours that they are looking at, which in turn raises their opinion of what they are worth, and that's what brings in slightly higher bids. Unfortunately that promotion of our product (ie the players themselves) is where we fall down badly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malky79 Posted January 16, 2013 Report Share Posted January 16, 2013 I didn't think you needed to be built like a tank to play fitba these days. How did Messi ever get a game? By being arguably the greatest footballing talent in te gistory of football for one. I think it is a fair point that Murphy's slight frame would have put off some. All that said I think you'll find he stronger than he looks or he wouldn't be hacking in the SPL these last few seasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.