weeyin Posted May 31, 2012 Report Share Posted May 31, 2012 Am I the only one that doesn't think he writes these emails?!? I don't know if he actually writes them - I'm sure they are managed by various parties at the club. I'd hope, however, that they are based somewhat on his input. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ONeils40yarder Posted May 31, 2012 Report Share Posted May 31, 2012 Now we're welding A thank you from me Mr McCall. Don't think reply was required, we are where we are... Time for those who suggest punishing the club they portray to 'support' to rap up and get with the programme. And from somebody who would have driven the manager back Southwards after 6 weeks too I dont see it as punishing the Club, I see at as being scunnered with fitba in general. As I've said though, I'm pretty certain that the wee man will coax me into buying a season ticket regardless of what happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted May 31, 2012 Report Share Posted May 31, 2012 I dont see it as punishing the Club, I see at as being scunnered with fitba in general. As I've said though, I'm pretty certain that the wee man will coax me into buying a season ticket regardless of what happens. I wouldn't bother trying to explain it to him. There are a few on this forum who refuse to take on board anything that anyone says and will continue to have wee digs as those who don't agree with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onthefringes Posted May 31, 2012 Report Share Posted May 31, 2012 I dont see it as punishing the Club, I see at as being scunnered with fitba in general. As I've said though, I'm pretty certain that the wee man will coax me into buying a season ticket regardless of what happens. Been scunnered with Scottish football for many a year, is current apathy really anything new? As it says in the term 'support'... Failing to offer such IS punishing our club no? Suspect we'll be doing a 'Who's walking away thread?' shortly 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OfficialMFC Posted May 31, 2012 Report Share Posted May 31, 2012 Am I the only one that doesn't think he writes these emails?!? I can assure you, he does and is very, very particular about it. It is Stuart who wants to communicate with our supporters and to be as transparent as possible which is a very fresh approach which fans seem to appreciate. Cheers Ab 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onthefringes Posted May 31, 2012 Report Share Posted May 31, 2012 I wouldn't bother trying to explain it to him. There are a few on this forum who refuse to take on board anything that anyone says and will continue to have wee digs as those who don't agree with them. Eh? Hope all the moderators don't accept your stance. Was mid-post reply so missed your inane retort... Where have I 'refused to take on board anything that anyone says'? Using the Rangers saga to turn your back on the club like you have described no matter how you dress it up... Not even debatable that you're punishing your club or am I missing something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted May 31, 2012 Report Share Posted May 31, 2012 Eh? Hope all the moderators don't accept your stance. Was mid-post reply so missed your inane retort... Where have I 'refused to take on board anything that anyone says'? Using the Rangers saga to turn your back on the club like you have described no matter how you dress it up... Not even debatable that you're punishing your club or am I missing something? What has my personal opinion got to do with the other moderators? As I've said numerous times, I'm simply not buying into the SPL if they allow Rangers to walk back in after everything they've done. Will I still attend non-SPL games? Yes, I will. Will I still spend my hard-earned in the club shop? Yes, I will. Will I still invest in the Well Society? Yes, I will. Y'see, in the past there's always been a bit of a suspicion that the SPL was geared up to benefit the two Glasgow clubs. I can live with a suspicion. If Rangers are allowed to transfer to a newco and walk right back into the SPL then that suspicion has basically became them waving it in our faces. When a product becomes rotten or you become disillusioned by it you have to decide if you want to keep throwing your money at it every year. I've simply decided not to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted May 31, 2012 Report Share Posted May 31, 2012 I can assure you, he does and is very, very particular about it. It is Stuart who wants to communicate with our supporters and to be as transparent as possible which is a very fresh approach which fans seem to appreciate. Cheers Ab Telt ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mightywellscott Posted May 31, 2012 Report Share Posted May 31, 2012 Telt ! I can certainly back this up, as a motherwell supporter who lives near the training facilties, I have on occassion been down to see them training and Stuart always takes time to listen to any 'Well fans view, including when my 13 year old son spoke 'candidly' about some of the team when we were going through a sticky patch around Christmas, Stuart encouraged him speak his mind and listened to what he had to say. He has always said that people have their own opinion, how many old firm fans get that openness and accessibility from their Manager, whatever your opinion, his openess has to be applauded. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ML1 Posted May 31, 2012 Report Share Posted May 31, 2012 What has my personal opinion got to do with the other moderators? As I've said numerous times, I'm simply not buying into the SPL if they allow Rangers to walk back in after everything they've done. Will I still attend non-SPL games? Yes, I will. Will I still spend my hard-earned in the club shop? Yes, I will. Will I still invest in the Well Society? Yes, I will. Y'see, in the past there's always been a bit of a suspicion that the SPL was geared up to benefit the two Glasgow clubs. I can live with a suspicion. If Rangers are allowed to transfer to a newco and walk right back into the SPL then that suspicion has basically became them waving it in our faces. When a product becomes rotten or you become disillusioned by it you have to decide if you want to keep throwing your money at it every year. I've simply decided not to. What have Rangers done ? Failed to pay tax and went into administration ? Hearts have failed to pay taxes in the past year, Dunfermline failed to pay their players , moving onto the what ifs and maybes Celtic its transpired have used EBT in the past and sorted it out with HMRC and the SFA , no punishment for dual contracts there at the time. Why no walking away from it over any of the above ? Scottish football IS bent , Romanov has said it since day one , Falkirk and Thistle fans used us as evidence in the past for saying it , the fixture rigging that goes on around the old firm is evidence of it In my personal opinion the self confessed time you spend on the messageboard of the green cheek has more to do with than youre letting on about the reasons for the extent of your outrage at the moment though. Youre spewing blood fantasising about a newco that might never happen. Its your money , youre well within your rights to let the extent of your hate for Rangers weigh up against your love for Motherwll when it comes to how you spend it , spare us the "I'm how a Motherwell fan should be" patter in the future though if you aint paying your way on a point of choice at a time when MFC is all but begging the fans for their cash 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Diggle Posted May 31, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2012 Looking forward to next weeks installment when we find out that Tinto is identical to Mount Everest and shoplifting a mars bar is just the same as 20 years of prolific serial killing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wellfan1984 Posted May 31, 2012 Report Share Posted May 31, 2012 Hearts have failed to pay taxes in the past year No they haven't. Hearts have not failed to pay PAYE or NIC. They have been late, but have never failed to pay it. Rangers, meanwhile between the months of August and February didn't only fail to pay their PAYE and NIC on time, they actually used it to run their business and in the end never paid it at all. Compare that to us, our expenses for example for a whole year was 2 and a bit months of that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ML1 Posted May 31, 2012 Report Share Posted May 31, 2012 No they haven't. Hearts have not failed to pay PAYE or NIC. They have been late, but have never failed to pay it. Rangers, meanwhile between the months of August and February didn't only fail to pay their PAYE and NIC on time, they actually used it to run their business and in the end never paid it at all. Compare that to us, our expenses for example for a whole year was 2 and a bit months of that! They were given their winding up orders for paying their tax were they ? So it isnt the bumping of the taxman then thats the problem , thats fine , its how much he gets at the end . Any opinions on Dundee then , should they be expelled post-haste fron Scottish football ? Ive purposely been avoiding this nonsense for the best part and im back out again. Anyone using it as excuse not to renew can batter in , surprised they could bring themselves to watch us post administration anyway , they've lasted well. The queues up the ticket office this week hopefully means they'll be replaced . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted May 31, 2012 Report Share Posted May 31, 2012 Celtic its transpired have used EBT in the past and sorted it out with HMRC and the SFA , no punishment for dual contracts there at the time. There is nothing unlawful about using EBTs. It's *how* Rangers used them that is questionable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoMaSano Posted May 31, 2012 Report Share Posted May 31, 2012 I've been in a rage over the past while over the whole Rangers thing, on the assumption that they will get away with minimal punishment over 10 years of cheating. I was never threatening to walk away from the club, but would have found it difficult to watch the SPL knowing that they turned a blind eye to sporting integrity in favour of finance. The recent statement from the club has convinced me that the club WILL listen to the fans before any decision is made and that our board, at least, will do the right thing. This is only right and fair for Scotland's Community Club as we move towards full fan ownership. So, in good faith that the board will listen to the fans, my group have all renewed our season tickets today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toxteth O'Grady Posted May 31, 2012 Report Share Posted May 31, 2012 So, in good faith that the board will listen to the fans, my group have all renewed our season tickets today. Yep, I did the same this morning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tottenmfc Posted May 31, 2012 Report Share Posted May 31, 2012 They were given their winding up orders for paying their tax were they ? So it isnt the bumping of the taxman then thats the problem , thats fine , its how much he gets at the end . Any opinions on Dundee then , should they be expelled post-haste fron Scottish football ? Ive purposely been avoiding this nonsense for the best part and im back out again. Anyone using it as excuse not to renew can batter in , surprised they could bring themselves to watch us post administration anyway , they've lasted well. The queues up the ticket office this week hopefully means they'll be replaced . Being given a winding-up order for not paying tax and subsequently paying that tax late is not quite the same as deducting tax and NI from employees and simply choosing not to pay it to HMRC for a substantial period of time. Comparing Rangers to ourselves and Dundee only works if they exit administration via a CVA and if so they will be treated according to the rules like we were. If it's a newco situation that's where the problems arise as they would essentially be a new team and how many new teams are able to waltz into the country's top division? The fact is that it's been rules for the old firm and rules for the rest for years but this could be the final straw for some people and I can understand why. A few people need to get off their high horse with all this "support the club whatever" nonsense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wellfan1984 Posted May 31, 2012 Report Share Posted May 31, 2012 They were given their winding up orders for paying their tax were they ? So it isnt the bumping of the taxman then thats the problem , thats fine , its how much he gets at the end . Any opinions on Dundee then , should they be expelled post-haste fron Scottish football ? Ive purposely been avoiding this nonsense for the best part and im back out again. Anyone using it as excuse not to renew can batter in , surprised they could bring themselves to watch us post administration anyway , they've lasted well. The queues up the ticket office this week hopefully means they'll be replaced . Hearts didn't bump the tax-man! They didn't pay on time, so HMRC went to court - and every time HMRC did it Hearts paid in full. if they didn't Hearts wouldn't be eligible for Europe. Again, no one is talking about screwing the tax-man by going into Administration. No one in Scottish Football has done what Rangers done. Which was take PAYE/NIC away from their staff, but instead of handing it to the tax man every month (which is law) they used it to finance the running of the club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted May 31, 2012 Report Share Posted May 31, 2012 What have Rangers done ? Failed to pay tax and went into administration ? In my personal opinion the self confessed time you spend on the messageboard of the green cheek has more to do with than youre letting on about the reasons for the extent of your outrage at the moment though. Hold up, what are you on about there? A Celtic messageboard? Which one? Its your money , youre well within your rights to let the extent of your hate for Rangers weigh up against your love for Motherwll when it comes to how you spend it I don't really hate Rangers anymore than any other non-old firm fan does to be honest. And again, for the umpteenth time, it has fuck all to do with Rangers and everything to do with how the the power that be at the SPL are going about their business. spare us the "I'm how a Motherwell fan should be" patter in the future though if you aint paying your way on a point of choice at a time when MFC is all but begging the fans for their cash "I'm how a Motherwell fan should be"!?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Diggle Posted May 31, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2012 What I loved as a well fan was watching Steve Davis or Vladimir Weiss tearing our underpaid duds to shreds or big Jelavic battering a few in or Big Gordon Marshall picking 5 out the onion bag in a league cup final. Fuckin love that shit 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hervé Bacqué Posted May 31, 2012 Report Share Posted May 31, 2012 I have deliberately avoided this topic other than to read now and again however I would like to make this point which doesn’t appear to have been picked up yet. What actually surprises me in this whole mess is that no one has really clocked that any Newco Rangers would likely to be more punished than the current Rangers negotiating their way out of administration via what looks to be a very weak Creditors Voluntary Agreement. In the instance of Rangers coming out of administration via a CVA, they are essentially going to shed over 100 million pounds worth of debt (assuming the BIG tax case does go against them), retain all the assets of the current company including stadium, training facility, top players, history etc and be virtually unpunished other than the ten point deduction they faced last season which, to be honest, didn’t matter a jot as Celtic ran away with the title anyway. Yet fans seem to be completely okay with this, only threatening boycott if they Newco. Sure they (current Rangers) still have the SFA issue hanging over their head but the court of session judgement the other day basically means they will either be fined, which will no doubt be minimal, or suspended (most likely for a year from the Scottish Cup), neither of which will present them with any real problems whatsoever. I don’t think for a second anyone really expects the SFA to expel Rangers. Whether people like it or not, and the SFA know this, no Rangers would be the final nail in the coffin for some clubs and they have a duty to look after everyone. Let’s take Kilmarnock as an example. They are only able to meet repayments on massive debt repayments based on current levels of income both from gate money and mostly from the current value of the TV contracts. Any radical shift in that arising from either this or, for example, relegation is likely for force Lloyds’ hand in liquidating the club and selling off the assets (stadium, hotel and players) to recoup as much money as they can given the unprofitability of the club at that time (either a vastly reduced income in the SPL or relegation from the SPL under the current circumstances). Why do you think Michael Johnson has gone public about how everyone should now go easy on Rangers despite their seemingly endless list of misdemeanours? Furthermore, Rangers would also retain full voting rights within the SPL i.e. they will be able to veto, along with Celtic, any proposal to change the 11-1 voting structure as it currently stands. Essentially, aside from what is likely to be a watered down punishment from the SFA, they will be the same Rangers as six months ago, minus debt, starting completely afresh and most importantly when considering this debate, in a very strong position. However, you have got to believe, given the furore that has been around a Newco, FC Rangers (or whatever name they are likely to dream up) will potentially face strict penalties from fellow SPL clubs as a given for league re-entry, including the very, very important possibility of rushing through a change in the voting structure I mentioned earlier which is really crucial in all this and what makes the SPL lop-sided at the moment. Do that and the whole landscape of how we distribute finance in this country can virtually change overnight. I really can’t for the life of me understand the whole flag-waving for the anti Newco argument. If anything, fans should be protesting about “No to a CVA”. You also have the fact they would be banned from Europe for three years, a punishment NOT set down if they agree a CVA, I honestly think fans have got it completely the wrong way around. So for what it is worth, I say bring on a Newco and say no to a CVA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay Posted May 31, 2012 Report Share Posted May 31, 2012 I dont see it as punishing the Club, I see at as being scunnered with fitba in general. Don't worry, for all those in the same boat as me - awaiting the outcome of this whole debacle before making any full decisions on next season - the following t-shirts will be available outside Fir Park ahead of all non-SPL matches... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nethertonwellfan Posted May 31, 2012 Report Share Posted May 31, 2012 So for what it is worth, I say bring on a Newco and say no to a CVA. Would you feel a little bit hypocritical? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted May 31, 2012 Report Share Posted May 31, 2012 Let’s take Kilmarnock as an example. They are only able to meet repayments on massive debt repayments based on current levels of income both from gate money and mostly from the current value of the TV contracts. Any radical shift in that arising from either this or, for example, relegation is likely for force Lloyds’ hand in liquidating the club and selling off the assets (stadium, hotel and players) to recoup as much money as they can given the unprofitability of the club at that time (either a vastly reduced income in the SPL or relegation from the SPL under the current circumstances). Why do you think Michael Johnson has gone public about how everyone should now go easy on Rangers despite their seemingly endless list of misdemeanours? So we have to accept the blatant cheating and tax fraud of one club to protect the gross financial mismanagement of other clubs? Well in, Scottish football. Well in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewarkfanclub Posted May 31, 2012 Report Share Posted May 31, 2012 Whilst I can understand both sides of the argument, this is a once in a lifetime opportunity to change our game for the better. The game is dying the way we are going. We MUST uphold sporting integrity even if it weakens our club in the short term. John McBeth is spot on. Look after the game the money will follow. Look after the money the game will die. Rangers (ia) are living proof of that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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