Spiderpig Posted June 19, 2012 Report Share Posted June 19, 2012 I'm pretty sure that Rangers FC do not exist... the company that owned them has been liquidated and as such they have no players contracted to them and their assets have been sold to 'The Rangers' for £5.5 million. Now the issue is that 'The Rangers' want to form a football club and have applied to play in the SPL... something that has never been heard of before. That's my understanding anyway but what I'm not sure of is how there can possibly be a Rangers vote included when the clubs meet if they do not currently exist?! As i understand it the old Rangers FC, (not the liqidated corporate entity but the football team that the corporate entity ran) are still members of the SPL and therefore entitled to a vote on any business. Legally it has no players, no ground etc but it is still a member club in name only. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted June 19, 2012 Report Share Posted June 19, 2012 Put it this way....it's the same thing that happened to Airdrie, Livingston and Gretna. All the clubs went bust for not paying their bills. With Rangers its not paying tax. Football are businesses. Anything involving people paying for something (their match ticket on Saturday, etc) requires the club to pay tax. Any wages that a club payout require payment of PAYE. Rangers did not do this. Livingston went belly up and got sent to Div 3. Gretna went bust and were refused permission to join Div 3 and are now a junior club. Airdrie were refused entry to div 3, so bought out Clydebank, rebranded and relocated them, and went into Div. 3. livingston didn't go bust, gretna resigned from the league and airdrie united went into div 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brazilian Posted June 19, 2012 Report Share Posted June 19, 2012 Conclusion Melvin Bragg is simply trolling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted June 19, 2012 Report Share Posted June 19, 2012 Legally it has no players, no ground etc but it is still a member club in name only. i think they still have the players at the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted June 19, 2012 Report Share Posted June 19, 2012 I am surprised that there has not been one organised before now. If Rangers fans can organise a march to Hampden surely the other 11 can do likewise. There have been discussions about a march/protest, but most fans see it simply as Celtic organising a march/protest, and refuse to take part. A bit like the protest against the SNP football bill a while back in George Square. It was open to all football fans but because the wheels were set in motion by Celtic no one else showed up, so it became a Celtic fans against the bill protest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well Up For It! Posted June 19, 2012 Report Share Posted June 19, 2012 Should it have happened to Airdrie, Gretna and Livingston though? Two wrongs don't make a right. For me, they're still the same team. Legally, maybe not. But in a sporting sense, it's still the same team. To deny it, is just laughable... Airdrie FC are technically Clydebank, Airdrieonians are dead. Livingston are more of less the same by your arguments. Gretna no longer play at the same ground. So maybe in terms of Livingston, but hard to make a case that Airdrie and Gretna are still the same in a sporting sense. Take Dolly the Sheep - was she still "technically" a sheep?! Or was she a clone first? Same thing with these clubs....they are clones of other clubs, clubs which have ceased to exist. Another obiovious one is Third Lanark. And I believe it should have happened to them all. Imagine an SPL club go out tomorrow and spend £100m on players and win the treble. It turns out they didn't have £100m to spend and are now up to their eyeballs in debt. They try to wriggle out with a pence in the £ CVA, it doesn't work. They are forced into liquidation, but immediately become a new club and automatically stay in the SPL scot free. Are they still the same team then? With no sanctions? Even in a sporting sense? I think to deny THAT is just laughable.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelvinBragg Posted June 19, 2012 Report Share Posted June 19, 2012 Conclusion Melvin Bragg is simply trolling Not in the slightest, If they were admitted to division three as many are asking and we drew them and humped them in the cup, do you think we'd be saying "aye, but it wasn't the real rangers we beat.."? Seriously, it's the same team. And if you value "sporting integrity" then you don't punish on the field for indiscretions off it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiderpig Posted June 19, 2012 Report Share Posted June 19, 2012 It might not come to a vote from the chairmen...looks like the SPL might be growing some cohones at last and taking positive action. http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/2012/06/19/rangers-in-crisis-ibrox-club-face-being-stripped-of-five-league-titles-and-a-battle-to-avoid-spl-expulsion-86908-23897921/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wellfan1984 Posted June 19, 2012 Report Share Posted June 19, 2012 KInd of the point I wasmaking, but to call them a new team strikes me as being pedantic for the sake of arguing against a newco Rangers... Are Gretna 2008 FC a new team from Gretna FC? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelvinBragg Posted June 19, 2012 Report Share Posted June 19, 2012 Are Gretna 2008 FC a new team from Gretna FC? I wouldn't say so, but frankly I don't know enough about the situation... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wellfan1984 Posted June 19, 2012 Report Share Posted June 19, 2012 And if you value "sporting integrity" then you don't punish on the field for indiscretions off it... They're intertwined So Juventus were wrongly booted out of Serie A for match fixing? You do realise the things Rangers did off the field allowed them to do what they did on the field? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted June 19, 2012 Report Share Posted June 19, 2012 Are Gretna 2008 FC a new team from Gretna FC? yes because they applied to the east of scotland as a new entity. if rangers sfa membership is transferred to the newco it'll be the same club. if the sfa refuse to transfer the membership and the newco has to apply for a new membership they won't be the same club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelvinBragg Posted June 19, 2012 Report Share Posted June 19, 2012 It might not come to a vote from the chairmen...looks like the SPL might be growing some cohones at last and taking positive action. http://www.dailyreco...86908-23897921/ And as I said in my first post today, this is where our anger should be focussed. Not as to the legal status of any company that owns Rangers. If fans want to see justice done, this is the issue they should be focussing on. This is more a breach of the sainted "sporting integrity" than forming as a newco... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelvinBragg Posted June 19, 2012 Report Share Posted June 19, 2012 They're intertwined So Juventus were wrongly booted out of Serie A for match fixing? You do realise the things Rangers did off the field allowed them to do what they did on the field? I would say "match fixing" is an on field indiscretion. I'm more referring to non payment of bills. And I'm well aware that their off the field crimes allowed them to perform on the field. And any proportionate financial punishment would have a similar impact on their future on field performances... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiderpig Posted June 19, 2012 Report Share Posted June 19, 2012 They're intertwined So Juventus were wrongly booted out of Serie A for match fixing? You do realise the things Rangers did off the field allowed them to do what they did on the field? 100 % correct they have been found out to be a bunch of cheating Bas***ds they should be thrown out of Scottish football sine die. Scottish football will be the better without them, now if only we had a whiff of a scandal from Parkhead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wellfan1984 Posted June 19, 2012 Report Share Posted June 19, 2012 yes because they applied to the east of scotland as a new entity. if rangers sfa membership is transferred to the newco it'll be the same club. if the sfa refuse to transfer the membership and the newco has to apply for a new membership they won't be the same club. But they are not. They do not have in their History Division 3, 2 and 1 winners. Or that they were in the SPL despite playing at the same ground and having the same badge (with the addition of 2008 on it). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well Up For It! Posted June 19, 2012 Report Share Posted June 19, 2012 livingston didn't go bust, gretna resigned from the league and airdrie united went into div 2. Livingston enetered liquidation, but a deal was struck before asset stripping with the SFA to assist them. The were demoted to Div. 3 wasn't technically a Newco, granted, but still regarded as going bust. If it wasn't for SFA stepping in, their probably wouldn't be a Livingston. This was possible because most of the clubs debts were football debts. Gretna went into administration and couldn't find a backer to give them funds to fufill their fictures in division 1. To prevent financial penalties from the SFA and were ultimately "forced" to resign, after which they went into liquidation. The Gretna 2008, set up after them, made an intial application to join the SFL. However, the clubs structure was not finalised in time and they withdrew their bid. Annan got the place. Airdrieonians went into liquadation and went bust. A Newco Airdrie United applied to join Div. 3. There application was rejected in favour of Gretna. Their Newco chairman Jim Ballantyne then went on to purchase 2nd division side Clydebank. With SDL permission, he gained relocated and changed their name. A newco Clydebank was formed and entered the juniours. They applied unsuccessfully for an SFL place in 2008 when Anna got the place. Clydebank (now Airdrie) remained in Div 2 (sorry I did get that bit wrong!!!!!!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nethertonwellfan Posted June 19, 2012 Report Share Posted June 19, 2012 legally the company operates the football club. they aren't the same thing. from court of session document If that was the case why would they need to apply for the SPL and they would also retain their membership of the SFA so would be able to get a UEFA licence no problem. Why the need for this vote at all? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tottenmfc Posted June 19, 2012 Report Share Posted June 19, 2012 Surely the 'old' Rangers don't still have players? Their wages would be paid by the company not the football club and as such the contract would be with them... this company no longer exists so how can they have a contract? Also, if the current Rangers have absolutely no assets how can they possibly meet the SPL rules regarding stadiums etc. which have seen clubs miss out on promotion on more than one occasion? Therefore, as of now they should be chucked out the SPL and be unable to have a say in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted June 19, 2012 Report Share Posted June 19, 2012 I've been thinking about this guy since I read his comments yesterday and the more I read the more I'm wondering what his motives were? According to the club he is a director but has had no dealing with the club for a few years. According to a poster on here he was appointed by JB and was/is an associate of his. Is it possible that the guy is not speaking his mind but is infact stating what JB might be saying privatly? - stranger thing have happened. Considering all the sucking up to the Old Firm that JB did when he was in charge, I doubt he has changed his mind now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well Up For It! Posted June 19, 2012 Report Share Posted June 19, 2012 As much guff as he talks, can't disagree with anything here.... Charlie Nicholas says "No to Newco" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnstone Posted June 19, 2012 Report Share Posted June 19, 2012 I would say "match fixing" is an on field indiscretion. I'm more referring to non payment of bills. And I'm well aware that their off the field crimes allowed them to perform on the field. And any proportionate financial punishment would have a similar impact on their future on field performances... By not paying tax they used that money to sign players. It is directly linked to on field events. No doubt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TvTotherwell Posted June 19, 2012 Report Share Posted June 19, 2012 There have been discussions about a march/protest, but most fans see it simply as Celtic organising a march/protest, and refuse to take part. A bit like the protest against the SNP football bill a while back in George Square. It was open to all football fans but because the wheels were set in motion by Celtic no one else showed up, so it became a Celtic fans against the bill protest. As a community let US be the ones to start something rolling. Least then we can say that we tried to make our voices heard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted June 19, 2012 Report Share Posted June 19, 2012 As much guff as he talks, can't disagree with anything here.... Charlie Nicholas says "No to Newco" what about the bits that are outright lies? “I remember playing against an Ibrox side that boasted Brian Laudrup and Paul Gascoigne. charlie left celtic before gazza signed for rangers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well Up For It! Posted June 19, 2012 Report Share Posted June 19, 2012 charlie left celtic before gazza signed for rangers. Never picked up on that! Gazza joined the year he left! Brilliant!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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