GrahamH Posted June 1, 2012 Report Share Posted June 1, 2012 The CVA proposal has gone out to creditors to vote on but Duff and Duffer have said that if it's successful they won't pay out until the results of the big tax case and the court case against Collyer Bristow are known as that will affect the amount paid out to each creditor. Can't really see HMRC going for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bladesman Posted June 1, 2012 Report Share Posted June 1, 2012 Dumb and Dumber are not going to pay out.... as they knew all the if's, buts and maybes in the cva would never be accepted by the creditors so it's down the Liquidation route they go! I cannot for the life of me understand how they could say that any funds received from the sale of players(assets) would not form part of the cva.... I have no doubt that at the end of this charade, this bunch of charlatans will be held to account be their professional body. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tassinari Posted June 1, 2012 Report Share Posted June 1, 2012 I think D&P are just being clever about this, dragging it on for as long as they can, waiting for the SPL/SFA to do something to compromise the terms of the CVA. This would then inevitably lead to liquidation, but it would no longer be the fault of Rangers/D&P, the blame would lie firmly at the door of whoever applied the sanctions. There is a game of cat and mouse going on in the background of all this. Reinstate Dunfermline to SPL and put Rangers back into 3rd Division. Let them carry on with CVA. Sorted!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigshinyhead Posted June 1, 2012 Report Share Posted June 1, 2012 Regarding the alternative mentioned in the document where they are liquidated and Charles Green acquires the assets for 5.5 million, is it not strange that this figure is the same as the administrators fees (so they get paid and everyone else gets nothing) and seems alot less than the actual value of the assets? This is what I don't understand. How can it be legal to sell your assets at a price much lower than their valuation when you have a queue of creditors the length of the Clyde? Surely the creditors must have first dibs on the assets and would be able to block such a sale in court? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamH Posted June 1, 2012 Report Share Posted June 1, 2012 That's where I hope HMRC would step in. Ibrox and Murray Park were valued at £110 million not too long ago but according to a valuation arranged by Fudd and Fudder they're now worth less than £5.5 million? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatcalf Posted June 1, 2012 Report Share Posted June 1, 2012 The sale of James McFadden was used in part to pay a higher percentage to our creditors, payments from Everton were put straight into the pot as they came in and dividends paid out accordingly. Sale of players should be considered part of the pot, no wonder Craig Whyte fought so hard to appoint his preferred administrators. Bryan Jackson would have this lot sorted already. Strikes me they have a good bit of explaining to do to their professional body cos this is all very suspect. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well Up For It! Posted June 1, 2012 Report Share Posted June 1, 2012 Not posted on this topic as yet but have been reading regularly and there is without doubt a lot of ifs and buts to be ironed out, but I'm firmly in the "kick them out" campaign. If they had breached one or even two rules then maybe there is an argument to keep them in the SPL with a heavy sanction, but they have KNOWINGLY broke a whole host of rules and their position as one of our "flasgship clubs" is completely unattainable! And I'm not taking into account the pending big tax case and rulings on EBT's. They have been nothing short of shambolic in their operations over the past 20years, and I hope (primarily for the sake of your decent Rangers fan...there are a few) that these rogues like Murray, Whyte, King, etc are taken to task and faced with criminal sanctions\charges. Reading McCall's email, I have to commend him on the way he comes across yet again: very thorough, very professional. And I do agree with a lot of what he says and his reasons for his thoughts. HOWEVER.... Releasing the strangehold the Old Firm have on our game would be remembered as the single greatest thing ever to happen to our league. As many have pointed out, we have a once in a lifetime chance to stop the rot rife in our game. Kicking Rangers out if they are reborn as a newco and absolutely throwing the book at them if they agree a CVA is a start and essential to sporting integrity...but getting a fairer voting system is also instrumental. The financial balance of power in our SPL is beyond belief, with the top 2 benefitting from much higher and disproportionate prize money to the rest of the league. It is a firmly rooted capitalist system, allowing the richer to prosper at the expense of the less well off. So what if we lose the big SKY TV deal, having spoke to someone who knows the ins and outs of the deal a lot better than me, he believes a reduced TV deal would be compensated by an extra 1000fans turning up at the gate which would be more than possible in a more open Rangers-less and balanced league. The one thing it would affect is the prize money for league placing, but restructuring that into a fairer system again accomodates that. Make no mistake, the team that would be hurt the most should a Rangers newco be expelled to Div. 3 is Celtic...no matter what you read in a paper, or what Lawell says, for Celtic to milk the other clubs dry like they have for so long, they need there ugly sister by their side. Sure we would take a hit in the quality of player we can attract for a few years....but is that really a bad thing?! Our clubs would have to rely on home grown talent, nurturing our players from a young age to be all they can and expose them to top team competitive football earlier. The end result would be a more competitive league (Celtic aside at first), better Scottish players resulting in a better national team, opportunities to sell on the young players to England to keep up running costs, etc, etc. Also the benefit to our lower divisions by having Rangers march through would be excellent. Also, many of the Old Frim fans and new supporters to football in Scotland could be more likely to go to their local team if they have more chance of a challenge. This has all been done before by another Football Assossiation, the French. In the 80's there game went absolutely belly up and had to be radically reformatted. The end result? A completive league with 9diffrent winners over a 20 year period. The improvement in football (spearheaded by young homegrown players, exciting to watch who might never have got their chances in the old system) led to more TV money and reduced prices for fans. Money coming into the league was controlled and regulated. And to top it all, the "new breed" of French player managed to win the World Cup and the Euro's. Not for a minute am I saying we'd be the same - a smaller country and all. But it shows it can be done. The grass roots work and current change in attitude of the Dutch League is also worth considering. Surely the powers that be can implement a balance to our leagues that incorporates these examples. And over 10years or so we will come out the other end flourishing. Even back when Rangers and Celtic were trying to get into England/Atlantic League I've championed the benefits of being rid of the disease they are, not only on our game but our society. And the way the world is just now, it won't be too long before the bubble finally bursts on the spending power in football. Premiership wages in England increase and increase, so they demand more and more money from SKY to cover costs, which SKY pass onto the customers, who basically refuse to pay £100/month for football and cancel. SKY can't pay the Premiership and overnight loads of clubs plummet into administration with the majority facing liquidation as they simply can't sustain their debts. Whether thats 5, 10 or 50 years away, it's coming. And makes sense for us to be prepared. Lets start now with a revolution of Scottish footbal! The Old Firm are like heroin addiction: It makes the world seem brighter, it offers self belief, it solves all your problems – but it also pollutes your system, turns you into an over dependent wreck by hooking you, leaves you with little money and will ultimate kill you in the end! Time we got Scottish Football into rehab. No to Newco. Yes to voting reform. (Apologies for long reply and for going off topic at points. Just wanted my 2cents worth) 19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatcalf Posted June 1, 2012 Report Share Posted June 1, 2012 Not posted on this topic as yet Well you should have, long before now. Top post 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaag Posted June 1, 2012 Report Share Posted June 1, 2012 Well you should have, long before now. Top post This Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snap19 Posted June 1, 2012 Report Share Posted June 1, 2012 Anyone else fed up of this rangers carry on?? When can we just get back to football at 3pm on a Saturday please? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
claretband Posted June 1, 2012 Report Share Posted June 1, 2012 Well said Well up for it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Diggle Posted June 1, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2012 Not posted on this topic as yet . . . . Tremendous WUFI Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Diggle Posted June 1, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2012 The sale of James McFadden was used in part to pay a higher percentage to our creditors, payments from Everton were put straight into the pot as they came in and dividends paid out accordingly. Sale of players should be considered part of the pot, no wonder Craig Whyte fought so hard to appoint his preferred administrators. Bryan Jackson would have this lot sorted already. Strikes me they have a good bit of explaining to do to their professional body cos this is all very suspect. Aint that the fuckin truth? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
star sail Posted June 1, 2012 Report Share Posted June 1, 2012 Just read the post from Well up for It. Why is that that not one (unless I have missed a gem in the shit pile), not one Scottish Sports Journalist can write an article that even hints at some of these points? A great read. This is the truth that the Football writers in Scotland do not want us to read. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewarkfanclub Posted June 1, 2012 Report Share Posted June 1, 2012 We are all WELL UP FOR IT! On a side note, did anyone notice on tonights news the values were announced for Rangers players re-negotiated move on fees and they would apear to be more than £5.5 million. Does that mean Green gets Ibrox and Murray Park for free? Also, where have they found the money to pay everyone their full wages this month? Creditors shafted AGAIN! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madscot Posted June 1, 2012 Report Share Posted June 1, 2012 We are all WELL UP FOR IT! On a side note, did anyone notice on tonights news the values were announced for Rangers players re-negotiated move on fees and they would apear to be more than £5.5 million. Does that mean Green gets Ibrox and Murray Park for free? Also, where have they found the money to pay everyone their full wages this month? Creditors shafted AGAIN! Dont know about murray park but ibrox(the main stand) is a listed buiding , not worth the ground it stands on! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewarkfanclub Posted June 1, 2012 Report Share Posted June 1, 2012 Dont about murray park but ibrox(the main stand) is a listed buiding , not worth the ground it stands on! It would be worth a substantial lease back fee to newco over a 25 year period. If the 5 players listed are worth more than the £5.5 million on their own then the liquidation fee for sale of assets is a joke. (remember they have another 35 players on their books). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted June 3, 2012 Report Share Posted June 3, 2012 Interesting analysis on how the SPL would fare without Rangers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rory Bellows Posted June 3, 2012 Report Share Posted June 3, 2012 Great post well up for it Rangers-less. Love it ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatcalf Posted June 3, 2012 Report Share Posted June 3, 2012 Interesting analysis on how the SPL would fare without Rangers. At last some one takes 5 minutes to look beyond the bluff and bluster. We've been saying the same thing for years among ourselves, educated people still can't see in front of their own noses Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underboyleheating Posted June 3, 2012 Report Share Posted June 3, 2012 “If you look after the sport the money will follow you, if you look after the money you’ll kill the sport,” former president John McBeth Wise words. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inthebasement Posted June 3, 2012 Report Share Posted June 3, 2012 Interesting analysis on how the SPL would fare without Rangers. At last! Analysis of this type should be at the centre of this affair. The article only tells part the story though. I'd like to see the optimisitic financial analysis which also factors: 1. Average 10% increase in attendances for all non-OF clubs (this is likely); 2. Increased visits to Hampden for league and Scottish cup ties for all non-OF clubs (this is certain); 3. The Ranger's fans boycotting away grounds of, say, four non-OF clubs next season (as promised by supporter's groups); 4. A projected drop in Ranger's own attendances based on not winning (this is certain). It has taken so long for the mainstream media to address these issue because they themselves would stand to be the biggest losers, after celtic, were Rangers to go under. The Scotsman, with a modest East Coast centred readership, is non-relirent on the OF obsession and has consquently had some of the better coverage of the Rangers affair thoughout. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waldo Posted June 3, 2012 Report Share Posted June 3, 2012 Big tax case is def in the CVA - that's one of the reasons why there's so many TBCs. Also, they are factoring in the legal action against Whyte's lawyers among others as being part of a potential payout. How can the big tax case be in the CVA? Rangers don't owe that.......yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted June 3, 2012 Report Share Posted June 3, 2012 1. Average 10% increase in attendances for all non-OF clubs (this is likely); how do you come that to conculsion? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
star sail Posted June 3, 2012 Report Share Posted June 3, 2012 how do you come that to conculsion? Inthebasement can answer for himself but it does not sound like an unreasonable assumption to me. 10% on a gate of 5000 is 500 fans per week. I would think that the chance to finish 2nd in the league, the reduction in secterian bile and a general feel good factor surrounding a revitalised SPL would attract 500 Well fans easily. It would sway me on a new season ticket that is for sure. Let's not forget the 10%+ that could be lost if a newco Rangers are playing in the SPL. A corrupt league is not an attractive prospect in anyone's book. A swing of a 1000 fans seems a reasonable assumption. I am sure that ITB has not done an indepth analysis so the assumption is a valid one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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