mightywellscott Posted June 14, 2012 Report Share Posted June 14, 2012 This is what I've always thought really. But when you think about it, the one thing that does and always has hindered our growth is 'the old firm'. With the old firm, we will always be consigned to feeding off the putrid scraps from their table. We can never grow into anything more than a sideshow to the celtic and rangers brand. For this reason I think the only option we should consider is to hammer Rangers as hard as possible. It's a golden oppurtunity. Yes we'll take a big hit to begin with, but it's a matter of ambition. Are we to simply know our place as the lapdogs of the old firm, or can we take the leap to be equal contenders in a genuine, competitive Scottish league? This is without even considering the fact that it's completely outrageous in itself to readmitt a new rangers in terms of fairness. Exactly, but we need to promote Motherwell FC first and foremost, let's be a force in our own right. We can and will survive without the bigoted majority, so do what we can to support Motherwell, lets all be advocates for our local team, there are plenty examples out there across the footballing world of the so called smaller teams working across the communities to promote ourselves. I would love to see a league without the so called big two, many countries are looking to do the same, stand up and be counted, support your team, regardless of the rest. Here endeth the lesson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maplewell Posted June 14, 2012 Report Share Posted June 14, 2012 The whole Rangers thing is a total shambles from start to finish, who in their right mind would get involved with them? Fudd and Skelps are making a right arse of it all. Anyway spoke to a few Rangers colleagues and they are all for starting again in Div3 as they want to 'stuff us all' as apparently all the clubs will go to the wall without them, that would teach us !!!, Failed to see the point when I mentioned they have already stuffed us all by cheating us all for the past 20 years. Apparently they see it as everyone else's fault but their's Is their no end to the number of complete idiots out there ? apparently not, i gave a wee cheeky comment to a rangers fan i know over here saying 'see you in 3 years or more then mate ' He then replied with 'It'll be less as youse will lose all yer money and get relegated cos rangers are oot the league, hahaha' fud Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Made Posted June 14, 2012 Report Share Posted June 14, 2012 Wrong. "Airdrie" meaning "Airdrieonians" did NOT buy Clydebank, Jim Ballantyne did. If I were a Rangers fan, (heaven forbid) and I won a few quid in the Lottery and bought Ross County, changed the name to Rangers and played at Ibrox, would you say "Rangers" bought Ross County ? I mean it would make good business sense, so that the legions of fellow christian hating gers fans would come into the stadium singing their hymns of hate, but would it be true ? The following is a quote from Wikipedia (which disnae mean it's wrang) - "Ballantyne went on to complete a buy-out of the ailing Second Division side Clydebank[7] and with SFL approval the club was relocated to Airdrie,[8] the strips were transformed to resemble that of Airdrieonians, and the name was changed to Airdrie United. While this means that the club is therefore officially a continuation of Clydebank it is almost universally accepted as a reincarnation of Airdrieonians, with Clydebank having been reformed by supporters groups and entering into the Scottish Junior League." I repeat "Officially a continuation of Clydebank !" But "universally accepted as a reincarnation of Airdrieonians." We are being primed to accept a doppelganger Rangers, a lookalike who will bring in their legions of followers willing to be duped into thinking their club has survived. Now, Gers fans, directors and chairmen can't have it both ways. Either they wipe the slate clean and start again in the 3rd Division, which is the dignified and honest way for such an institution to behave, OR they are the successors to the financial dopers, who have cheated all of us out taxes and an honest level playing field. Remember they have to face an inquiry into double payments and taking the SFA to court among others things. They must accept the punishment due. If they want to hold on their history, they must inherit responsibility for their obscene historical malpractices as well. They CANNOT be separated, anymore than sporting integrity and our sustainable future. If the "Rules" don't permit it because they haven't been written, then apply "principles" of morality and decency. Whatever the "rules" say, the fans have it in their power to influence the decision making. Without us, there is no game. Simple. Want to disagree with that ? I'll disagree with it to a point. Although I will start with an apology, as I was sure that Ballantyne had already acquired what was left of Airdrie Utd before he bought Clydebank's share in the SFL. Which would've meant really that Airdrie bought them over. I do agree that they are a continuation of Clydebank. However they already had a place allocated by the SFL. Rangers are a club in liquidation that have no right to be "relegated" to the Third Division as has already been pointed out elsewhere there is no path allowed for that between the SPL and the SFL. It is only due to what the SFL relate to as the Settlement Agreement that allows for promotion and relegation for the winners of the 1st Division and the bottom club of the SPL. This is why Rangers have to apply to the SFL to join the Third Division but one of those criteria is supposedly for 3 years accounts. Otherwise what was to stop Gretna 2008 just taking over Gretna's place, which would've been classed a Newco? So they still just can't walk into the Third Division. they need to go to through a full application and voting. Which would also allow for the likes of Spartans to apply if they so wished. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
punk_in_drublic Posted June 14, 2012 Report Share Posted June 14, 2012 In my opinion the SPL would be invalid as a sporting competition if Rangers were admitted into the SPL regardless of sanctions which may or may not be given. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razz1074 Posted June 14, 2012 Report Share Posted June 14, 2012 No, No and hell no! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nethertonwellfan Posted June 14, 2012 Report Share Posted June 14, 2012 Alert to those voting yes. Scottish football is in a shitty state WITH Rangers and finances of alot of clubs are terrible WITH Rangers. I find it ironic people are arguing that we need Rangers' fans money when Rangers themselves couldn't even survive on said money. If clubs go under due to Rangers going under then I'm sorry but that is their problem. Can you think of any other business that relies on money from their competitors customers? Clubs need to be self sufficient. I say no and have no doubt that clubs will have to cut their cloth and reduce costs. We will certainly not be able to attract the Steve Jennings of this world. We will still be able to offer the Ojamma's and Scott McDonalds (at the time he signed) a platform to show their talents and perhaps move on to bigger things in the future. Other clubs will be forced to focus on their youth development and this in turn could be to the benefit of the whole of Scottish Football. This is a chance to change the whole of Scottish Football for good. Increase the league and share the prize money more fairly. Even introduce a pyramid system that will allow a Rangers newco to get back in the league in about 15 years. Scottish football has been scared to make change because of their reliance on the old firm. Well there is no old firm any longer because you can't have an old firm with 1 team. Scottish football is fucked and it has been for years and people should remember that it's fucked BECAUSE of the old firm. Motherwell, and the rest of the SPL, it is time to grow a set and make the changes that will save our game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnstone Posted June 14, 2012 Report Share Posted June 14, 2012 I voted no but like AKA I can't actually see them getting out of this. They are relying on this Green character and I think he is way out his depth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaag Posted June 14, 2012 Report Share Posted June 14, 2012 Will it definitely be a private vote this ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well Well Posted June 14, 2012 Report Share Posted June 14, 2012 No...and if they are then whats the point watching our club week in week out knowing that if Rangers and Celtic have a record poor season they can never be relegated. Above all else that is not right. What is the point of having a league when certain teams are not allowed to be relegated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cambo97 Posted June 14, 2012 Report Share Posted June 14, 2012 I'll disagree with it to a point. Although I will start with an apology, as I was sure that Ballantyne had already acquired what was left of Airdrie Utd before he bought Clydebank's share in the SFL. Which would've meant really that Airdrie bought them over. You are right Ballantyne had formed Airdrie Utd and tried to get them accepted into the SFL, only to loose out to Gretna. Buying out Clydebank was effectively Plan B. The paragraph from Wiki immediately prior to the one quoted Airdrieonians had finished runners-up in the Scottish First Division in the 2001–02 season[2] but went out of business with debts approaching £3 million.[3] The collapse of "The Diamonds", as they were known due to their distinctive kits,[4] created a vacancy in the Scottish Football League (in the Scottish Third Division). Accountant and Airdrieonians fan Jim Ballantyne attempted, with the help of others, to gain entry with a club called "Airdrie United" who were essentially to be a reincarnation of Airdrieonians.[5] Their application however was rejected as the then English Northern Premier League side Gretna were preferred by league members over the new Airdrie United.[6] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Made Posted June 14, 2012 Report Share Posted June 14, 2012 Thanks for that. Thought old age was catching up and my memory going. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underboyleheating Posted June 14, 2012 Report Share Posted June 14, 2012 Will it definitely be a private vote this ? As we are in the process of becoming a fan owned club, it’s my opinion that we the fans should be informed on which way we intend to vote. However it is possible that the SPL may want to keep the voting private. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy_P Posted June 14, 2012 Report Share Posted June 14, 2012 Have the SFA responded to the legal outcome that sent their initial punishment of Rangers back to them from the courts? It seemed to be that having already (perhaps foolishly) disregarded the option of expulsion the SFA were left with a dilemma as to what to do when they were asked to reconsider the punishment. It seemed suspension from the Scottish Cup was one of the few avenues left open to them. That seems a bit weak to me and there's an argument to be made that it penalises other clubs - I'm thinking here of the 80k that the Elgins, Stranraers and Clydes of the game invariably get when Sky decide to show their game live. But what about friendlies. Does it remain the case that the SFA require to issue approval for any cross-border or cross-country friendly? Denying Rangers the chance to bring up any English or foreign team of note at every opportunity as I suspect they would try to do to help boost their coffers and retain some degree of profile would I think be a more severe punishment than kicking them out of the Scottish Cup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brisbaneMFC Posted June 14, 2012 Report Share Posted June 14, 2012 I'm surprised at the overwhelming "no" here. I agree that rangers deserved to be punnished heavily, but there is so much to take into account. Losing Rangers will definitely lower the standard of football in the SPL, we will lose money from TV rights and gate reciepts from games against rangers. We already struggle to compete financially with some of the lower leagues in England; if our budget was lowered even further then we would end up competing with the likes of the conference teams or welsh and irish teams. We could also suffer in the future as our youth system would lose some of its funding. It could then contribute to a lower quality of football in Scotland and may lead to the SPL losing european spots later. This will only lower our income even more leading to even further cuts in the future causing a snowball effect leading to a very poor quality league. I think it may be possible to keep the integrity of the Scottish game AND allow rangers newco to be in the SPL, they just need to get punished in another way that won't screw over Motherwell and the other SPL teams. Heavy points deductions over several years or something like that? I understand that people want rangers to be punbished like everyone else, but the fact of the matter is that right now, we rely on the money from Rangers and removing them will inevitebly negatively affect Motherwell Footbasll Club, whom I love I only want the best for us and motherwell I understand when people give the financial argument, but it is far more than that. Why should any football club, outside of our interests, allow Rangers straight back in to the SPL as a newco? Doesn't seem particularly reasonable for fans at any division. Directly regarding the money - they have been proven to have financed their continued gain through, essentially, theft. I see no reason to assume that we'd be 'better off' by allowing the chance to carry on as was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brisbaneMFC Posted June 14, 2012 Report Share Posted June 14, 2012 SPL will have to provide details of the vote. Can't see a way round it for the various boards, who must all be clear by now on the views of the supporters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatcalf Posted June 14, 2012 Report Share Posted June 14, 2012 As we are in the process of becoming a fan owned club, it's my opinion that we the fans should be informed on which way we intend to vote. However it is possible that the SPL may want to keep the voting private. Aye in case sumbdy gets their windaes put in for no' voting the way some folk want them tae Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay Posted June 14, 2012 Report Share Posted June 14, 2012 As we are in the process of becoming a fan owned club, it's my opinion that we the fans should be informed on which way we intend to vote. However it is possible that the SPL may want to keep the voting private. I can't see the voting being private. At the very least, in the case of a newco being voted in, those who voted 'no' will want to make sure their fans know about it (Aberdeen today being the perfect example). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mightywellscott Posted June 14, 2012 Report Share Posted June 14, 2012 Somehow even if it is private, this is way too big for it to be kept quiet, someone will leak it, deliberately or otherwise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperCC Posted June 14, 2012 Report Share Posted June 14, 2012 Somehow even if it is private, this is way too big for it to be kept quiet, someone will leak it, deliberately or otherwise spot on and this could never be kept quiet! it would have to be minuted and they would then be shared with every club who would then have their admin staff share it with all Directors and by the end of that process about 100 people would have seen the detail..... Its as good as public by then.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunky2k Posted June 14, 2012 Report Share Posted June 14, 2012 I voted NO. It's a simple and easy decision and i don't really know why there is even any doubt by ANY club. Rangers broke the rules and as such are now having to deal with the consequences of their actions. Okay so the potential revenue brought in by the 'Old Firm' through TV deals is going to suffer, but so what, in a few years if they get their act together and start from the 3rd Division then they should be back in the SPL rightly through promotion and then the TV deals may be back on par with what they were. Livingston were found guilty of cheating, i know its not the same here, but a precedent has been set, they were sent to the 3rd Division, so why should Rangers get off lightly. The other issue is the players, if they are to be free agents as the players union say they are, what makes the newco think that they will stick around knowing that there will be no european football for 3 years EVEN if they were in the SPL, i can't see that happen, i can see an exodus of players leaving and anyone thats left if they were in the SPL would be a no contest as far as the 'Old Firm' games are concerned, so TV revenue would suffer anyway. If they get demoted to division 3 as a newco, then i say they have gotten off lightly, they have no SPL share at present now and no SFA License, so why should they get it to go into division 3 ahead of some of the highland league teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wellfan1984 Posted June 14, 2012 Report Share Posted June 14, 2012 I don't see it as a case of firing them out. It's about letting a new club in. It shouldn't happen. This is the crunch of it. The club that is asking to be entered into the SPL (along with Dundee or Falkirk) is not Rangers Football Club. Rangers Football Club are having their last rights as we speak - once this part is complete there will no Rangers Football club. Rangers have not went down the NewCo route (ala Leeds United), the most recent precedent case in Britain is the fact of Darlington. Relegated 3 divisions, no history and forced to change their name (although their is disposition given to new companies rising from old regarding locals in their name). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brazilian Posted June 14, 2012 Report Share Posted June 14, 2012 being reported that admin process will take another 8-10 weeks SPL season starts in just over 7 weeks maybe old Rangers will still exist in admin ............... so a vote on newco doesnt happen until ......? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cambo97 Posted June 14, 2012 Report Share Posted June 14, 2012 being reported that admin process will take another 8-10 weeks SPL season starts in just over 7 weeks maybe old Rangers will still exist in admin ............... so a vote on newco doesnt happen until ......? It can happen any time. The Newco will buy the assets then apply for the licence to be transferred prior to the oldco being fully liquidated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niall Posted June 14, 2012 Report Share Posted June 14, 2012 I can't see the voting being private. At the very least, in the case of a newco being voted in, those who voted 'no' will want to make sure their fans know about it (Aberdeen today being the perfect example). Regardless of the outcome, those that voted "no" will announce that they voted such, again to make sure their fans know about it. being reported that admin process will take another 8-10 weeks SPL season starts in just over 7 weeks maybe old Rangers will still exist in admin ............... so a vote on newco doesnt happen until ......? surely, if they do start the season and are then liquidated, they lose their share in the league. Their results are expunged and the season continues with 11 teams with the team finishing 11th being relegated. Of course, it would take a moron to let them get into that position. oh wait.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoMaSano Posted June 14, 2012 Report Share Posted June 14, 2012 being reported that admin process will take another 8-10 weeks SPL season starts in just over 7 weeks maybe old Rangers will still exist in admin ............... so a vote on newco doesnt happen until ......? It's being reported that after the official turning down of the CVA today, Green's Newco will be up and running within a few days. An SPL vote will have a minimum notice of 2 weeks, so whatever happens we'll likely to be well into July before anything is known. You would have to think that the authorities will do everything they can to hurry things along where they can, it would be nightmare if it dragged on til after the start of next season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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