David Posted June 25, 2012 Report Share Posted June 25, 2012 I don't think you understand what 'self-sufficient' means. (Clue: it doesn't mean we can survive with zero income). The definition of "self sufficient" is being able to provide for oneself without the help of others. I'd expect us to take a hit from it, but if the loss of Rangers financial input is potentially enough to send us out of business we are very far from being self sufficient. I don't recall you warning of us of the dangers of signing players to multi year contracts when we signed randolph on a three year deal or extended hutchy's contract so don't be getting on your high horse now. High horse? What the fuck are you on about? I never mentioned anything about signing players to multi year contracts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted June 25, 2012 Report Share Posted June 25, 2012 The definition of "self sufficient" is being able to provide for oneself without the help of others. I'd expect us to take a hit from it, but if the loss of Rangers financial input is potentially enough to send us out of business we are very far from being self sufficient. Seriously. Do you think a business can provide for itself without customers? Self-sufficient means being able to live within our means and not rely on debt to finance our activities. Now that a slice of our income has been removed, and we have no bank debt facilities, there is a risk (and only a risk) that a combination of negative factors could put us into administration. It's pretty standard in business to identify and manage operational risks. It doesn't mean they will transpire, but you need to account for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted June 25, 2012 Report Share Posted June 25, 2012 Seriously. Do you think a business can provide for itself without customers? Self-sufficent means being able to live within our means and not relay on debt to finance our activities. Now that a slice of our income has been removed, and we have no bank debt facilities, there is a risk (and only a risk) that a combination of negative factors could put us into administration. It's pretty standard in business to identify and manage operational risks. It doesn't mean they will transpire, but you need to account for them. As I said, with the positive noises coming out of Fir Park over the past few years I'd have expected us to take a hit from the loss of Rangers (much like every other club) but to hear stories of going out of business? Especially considering the fact that we've had quite a decent run performance-wise over the past few years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brazilian Posted June 25, 2012 Report Share Posted June 25, 2012 If our club is that reliant on the Old Firm that insolvency could become an issue then maybe we deserve everything we get. I've heard for years that we're "self-sufficient". Clearly that isn't the case if we can't survive without the gruesome twosome. Earth calling David, Hello! our club is reliant on every single penny it gets in! not just old firm money what planet have you been on the last decade, you think we've got a secret stash of cash somewhere? £500k was in the bank and a managed loss this season which all but removes the cash at bank, but with no credit facilities to cover any losses going forward every penny would have went to meeting the budget which has been reduced to £4.5million finishing third only got us around £150-250k more than expected hence the concern at the failures in the cup which have potential to generate hell of a lot more than a good league run (during the season, European reward for league place is next years income) in fact fek it your going off on one with no thought to it,batter in Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted June 25, 2012 Report Share Posted June 25, 2012 High horse? What the fuck are you on about? I never mentioned anything about signing players to multi year contracts. then maybe we deserve everything we get. looks like a high horse to me. multi year contracts are why we might end up in administration. if we only offered one year deals it would be easy to cut our cloth to the new financial reality. but if you want to build a decent side multi year contracts are a must and you run risk of an unforeseen change in circumstances leaving you without enough money to cover your liabilities. anyone who was truly concerned with us not being financially dependent on the old firm would have been screaming from the roof tops not to sign any player to more than a one year deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ropy Posted June 25, 2012 Report Share Posted June 25, 2012 To make up for lack of Rangers income, would it be an idea for all season ticket holders to pay in to the game against Club12? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brazilian Posted June 25, 2012 Report Share Posted June 25, 2012 The costs do add up and I hope they bought stamps in bulk before the recent price hike but an earlier poster suggested returning the votes with a cheque to cover admin costs and I'll be doing that. I'm voting No and accept that as a consequence of a doing so the club will be worse off financially, due to the loss of a large number of visiting fans and possibly other reasons as well. The club have stated they need to replace or reduce this loss as much as possible and I see that as fact rather than scaremongering. Obviously it's up to others what they can and can't afford and whether they want to do it but I intend to send the club a donation to cover the cost of a Rangers fan who will not be attending the first game at Fir Park as a result of the club (and others) voting them out of the SPL. I'll then take a view on it later in the season, probably at the time of our second home game against Club 12. To make up for lack of Rangers income, would it be an idea for all season ticket holders to pay in to the game against Club12? I think this is the type of suggestion we need to be looking to support the club, obviously everyone can only afford what they can, but if you could afford anything extra at a home game or even one or two games a season then it can only be good for the club at the very least the club will be needing the equivalent of 6000 extra PATG punters cash next season, I hope we can all help make up the shortfall Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmacd1 Posted June 25, 2012 Report Share Posted June 25, 2012 To make up for lack of Rangers income, would it be an idea for all season ticket holders to pay in to the game against Club12? A fans account similar to that of the rangers fighting fund. I'd happily pop a few quid in with regularity, and am sure many others would. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted June 25, 2012 Report Share Posted June 25, 2012 Earth calling David, Hello! our club is reliant on every single penny it gets in! not just old firm money what planet have you been on the last decade, you think we've got a secret stash of cash somewhere? £500k was in the bank and a managed loss this season which all but removes the cash at bank, but with no credit facilities to cover any losses going forward every penny would have went to meeting the budget which has been reduced to £4.5million finishing third only got us around £150-250k more than expected hence the concern at the failures in the cup which have potential to generate hell of a lot more than a good league run (during the season, European reward for league place is next years income) in fact fek it your going off on one with no thought to it,batter in I said that if the loss of Rangers is enough to potentially send us out of business then something isn't right with how we're running things. What's happened to all of the responsible financial behaviour since we went into administration? If the Rangers situation hadn't happened but we had been relegated this season then we'd be seriously close to going to the wall? What are the likes of Accies & Falkirk doing that we aren't? They've survived relegation and managed to live without Rangers money, haven't they? How is that possible when we've been consistently one of the best performers in the SPL outwith the Old Firm for years? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted June 25, 2012 Report Share Posted June 25, 2012 falkirk and accies would have had clauses cutting their players wages if they got relegated. we haven't been relegated and have to pay our players what we agreed to. we have no overdraft or benefactor so if our outgoings are more than our income and we can't pay our bills we will have to go into administration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim mccann Posted June 25, 2012 Report Share Posted June 25, 2012 Is it just me or does anybody else think that the spl have done a deal to put the newco in div 1 and not div 3 where they should be...they are doing their best to get them back asap...its bollocks...The SFA need to take charge and get rid of them for good...we will be better off without the sh**e they bring to football That's my theory too. A single year year in Divison 1 and Club 12 come back debt free next season in a stronger financial position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madwullie Posted June 25, 2012 Report Share Posted June 25, 2012 If we get relegated our best players get printed and relegation clauses kick in. We've basically had 2 months notice that a big chunk of value is getting chopped from the league that couldn't have been predicted 1 or 2 seasons ago when we were sensibly budgeting using apparently guaranteed income. That's not to say we wouldn't be in bother if we went down Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brazilian Posted June 25, 2012 Report Share Posted June 25, 2012 I said that if the loss of Rangers is enough to potentially send us out of business then something isn't right with how we're running things. What's happened to all of the responsible financial behaviour since we went into administration? If the Rangers situation hadn't happened but we had been relegated this season then we'd be seriously close to going to the wall? What are the likes of Accies & Falkirk doing that we aren't? They've survived relegation and managed to live without Rangers money, haven't they? How is that possible when we've been consistently one of the best performers in the SPL outwith the Old Firm for years? and as I said your going off on one with no thought to it, so batter in, your looking like an idiot and one that isnt even reading the answers he's craving for Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted June 25, 2012 Report Share Posted June 25, 2012 If things could end up as bad as all that then perhaps we ought to be voting yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nethertonwellfan Posted June 25, 2012 Report Share Posted June 25, 2012 We vote yes and every club in Scotland boycott us including our own fans, with Rangers confirmed as a non SPL side that is suicidal. I don't even think Kilmarnock will vote yes now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuwell Posted June 25, 2012 Report Share Posted June 25, 2012 i've mentioned this a few times, and there are obviously pros / cons of this - but with all fans of all clubs against Rangers just now, and all clubs directors worried about the loss of several thousand h**s ££££ can we not try and incorporate an "away season ticket"?? i know in the past we have had deals with Killie and Hearts for reduced prices but can we not come up with an idea/solution that pools all the money and splits it evenly between all teams - Celtic probably being the exception. Like many, I try and go to every away game. Up until last year, I was nearly at every game consecutively, but a change in circumstances means I now have to choose my games. I cant be the only one. IMO, away fans numbers have dropped at every club - less people are traveling. It could be ££ it could be "heavy hands, empty stands" there is no doubt having a good travelling support at any stadium is a good thing my example!! £150 gets you 10 away games - any 10 apart from Parkhead you could choose to go to each stadium once or you could decide that Aberdeen, Inverness and Dingwall are too far to travel so choose to go to Paisley, Kilmarnock and Hearts twice either way - all clubs split the pot benefits of this are similar to home season tickets where its cheaper to buy in advance. The £150 you spend is getting you to 10 games rather than 7 make sense?????????? sorry weesacs but that is the worst idea I've heard in a while - how long would it be before celtic (and the other half when they return) start demanding a larger share of the cash or all of their supporters money, much like when they got split gates stopped. If folk want do do something extra next season, why not this, everyone has a mate or a friend who supports another non OF team, so why not arrange to go to a game and have a few pints with them when the'well are away. With them then coming to a motherwell game. That way both of you do your bit to help out and you get two piss up's with your mate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted June 25, 2012 Report Share Posted June 25, 2012 Well, provided the club haven't exaggerated about the ramifications of what happens to us without Rangers, we're fucked either way most likely. Being realistic we aren't going to see the increase in season ticket holders that we'd need to cover the loss, and it appears that finishing third and qualifying for Europe isn't worth much either (i've certainly overestimated the value of it!), so even if we repeat the kind of season we had this year it won't make much difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatcalf Posted June 25, 2012 Report Share Posted June 25, 2012 Well, provided the club haven't exaggerated about the ramifications of what happens to us without Rangers, we're fucked either way most likely. Pretty much, but to me the chat now should be about how we can make up the shortfall rather than wringing hands and wailing 'woe is us'. We'll survive without them fuckers but we need some creative thinking now more than ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
makaveli Posted June 25, 2012 Report Share Posted June 25, 2012 Jennings will quite rightly be touted around every club possible. His agent will be trying to get the best possible deal for him as this will potentially be his last big move. If he goes (and I am pretty certain he will) I wish him all the best. his agent will be hammerfisting him about fan forums down south, although i might text said agent and see if i can get some hints from him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
makaveli Posted June 25, 2012 Report Share Posted June 25, 2012 and i would rather see the demise of scottish football with the clubs showing baws and voting those cheating bigoted bastards out the spl and going out with a fight than the spl clubs giving in to those cancerous bastards and scottish football dying without a fight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yabba's Turd Posted June 26, 2012 Report Share Posted June 26, 2012 If the sky deal is in place for one more season, surely finishing 2nd would give us the required 900k to see us through the bleak times. Just get the finger out Motherwell and repeat last season's feats Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxywell Posted June 26, 2012 Report Share Posted June 26, 2012 If we or any other teams go down the shitter then it's the fans who've pushed the clubs into voting no who are to blame.I've stayed out of these threads for a while apart from voting 'yes' to letting them back in because we are fucked if they go into div 3 as are a few other teams.It's fine going on about sporting integrity but the people who run the clubs are far more bothered about the finacial side and all these boycott threats have left them between a rock and a hard place but imo most teams will be worse off financially now that Rangers aren't getting back in.Even more so for Motherwell.I mean does anyone seriously think the WS is going to make that 900k?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted June 26, 2012 Report Share Posted June 26, 2012 If we or any other teams go down the shitter then it's the fans who've pushed the clubs into voting no who are to blame.I've stayed out of these threads for a while apart from voting 'yes' to letting them back in because we are fucked if they go into div 3 as are a few other teams.It's fine going on about sporting integrity but the people who run the clubs are far more bothered about the finacial side and all these boycott threats have left them between a rock and a hard place but imo most teams will be worse off financially now that Rangers aren't getting back in.Even more so for Motherwell.I mean does anyone seriously think the WS is going to make that 900k?! Of course nobody thinks the WS will make that 900k. But don't blame the fans for that, blame the cheats who have been fiddling their taxes for the past few years. Selling a couple of players, bringing up a couple of youngsters instead of dabbling in the transfer market, getting past one round of European competition, the TV deal not being as bad as predicted etc. will all make an impact on the projected losses. The teams in the SFL generally seem to cope without Sky and OF revenues, and we managed it ourselves when we were dossing around the First Division for a few years. July 4th. Independence from the Union Jack wavers. No SPL representation without taxation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Diggle Posted June 26, 2012 Report Share Posted June 26, 2012 If we or any other teams go down the shitter then it's the fans who've pushed the clubs into voting no who are to blame.I've stayed out of these threads for a while apart from voting 'yes' to letting them back in because we are fucked if they go into div 3 as are a few other teams.It's fine going on about sporting integrity but the people who run the clubs are far more bothered about the finacial side and all these boycott threats have left them between a rock and a hard place but imo most teams will be worse off financially now that Rangers aren't getting back in.Even more so for Motherwell.I mean does anyone seriously think the WS is going to make that 900k?! It's for guys like you I'm glad we've all voted no. Poor wee scone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marty Posted June 26, 2012 Report Share Posted June 26, 2012 I noticed on the Ross county website a couple of weeks ago that they had a 'we are on our way up' fund to help them out financially in the spl. basically it's done through the club shop and you just put the amount you want to give into the shopping basket and it goes directly to the club. Their suggested amount is £20. Even if that was done over 4 installments over a year that could help quite a bit. Below is the Ross county model. https://store.rosscountyfootballclub.co.uk/products/143-we-are-on-our-way-up.aspx 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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