underboyleheating Posted June 30, 2012 Report Share Posted June 30, 2012 The most concerning thing in all this is that Motherwell had no knowledge about these proposals. If I was Motherwell I would be looking for some answers asap. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texanwellfan Posted June 30, 2012 Report Share Posted June 30, 2012 The most concerning thing in all this is that Motherwell had no knowledge about these proposals. If I was Motherwell I would be looking for some answers asap. As should all the other teams who kne nothing about this. Perhaps this fiasco may have a positive outcome in that the idiots in charge of runing the game will be ousted and replaced by people who actually have a half idea how to run the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tweed Posted June 30, 2012 Report Share Posted June 30, 2012 I have one or two things about Flow post, the first is the bit about the club not responding to every story...sorry but when the integrity of the club and those who run it are being questioned then they bloody well should be slapping down those suggestions asap. I think that comment is quite condescending but that's my own personal opinion. To an extent I agree with you but remember a week past on Monday, I know it is a long time ago in this saga. But the club tried to put something out quickly after the SPL board meeting, it was misinterpreted and all hell broke loose. So whilst they may want to counter things quickly there is a skill to getting it right. The club need to manage expectations here, every time the SPL or the SFA release something there is someone on here demanding to know what our club's involvement, viewpoint, stance and input is/has been. It is physically impossible for them to respond all the time. All day today there have been people making comments about I want this statement today etc etc. I understand their frustration but it is a Saturday in the holiday seasons and it is not as if one was promised in the first place. I think the club are learning all the time. They were too quiet for too long at the start, then the next time they were quick and released something that was misleading and today they have released something that is quite honest, well worded and within 48 hours of the document breaking. Had they rushed something out that could be misconstrued a rammy would have ensued so I say well played. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewarkfanclub Posted June 30, 2012 Report Share Posted June 30, 2012 If this is true, the club should be demanding the resignation of Neil Doncaster or whoever was resposnsible for the publishing of that document with immediate effect. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Stall Posted June 30, 2012 Report Share Posted June 30, 2012 Great post from flow& excellent to hear that mfc knew nothing about 'the document'. Maybe now some of the posters on here can put their knickers on the washing line, at least for a couple of days! To echo what a few people have said though, its very concerning that that document went out in the first place without being circulated to spl clubs for comment or the chairman who sit on the spl board! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Diggle Posted June 30, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 30, 2012 Aye good stuff stall Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Diggle Posted June 30, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 30, 2012 Firstly, this is 'Flow posting from the Official Club account on here as I don't have a personal one. The real sad thing is opinions have now become some polarised, people post anything without fear of failure and the snowball effect beings. I am going to try and answer a few points without wanting to go into a large debate. I know what I post here will be ripped and pulled a part, but it's the truth. If people want to believe it, great... If you don't want to believe it and think I am a part of a stitch up job involving the board and others running the club, then that's also fine. I would hope most that know me and know how I feel about the club and the fans, of which I am one, will know which one to be true. 1. First of all - to the point by 'Gilmour' I think it was, taking exception to a quote that was attributed to me. You will notice that it said some fans have threatened not to renew based on the outcome of the Rangers situation. Not all fans, some fans. That is true - if you search this thread, twitter, Facebook, Google+, email and other communications outlets, we have been subject to that threat constantly. That's absolutely people's right to do so - I've got no beef with that. I never said all fans or you personally. I did say to the reporter about the recession and people's diminishing ability to afford in tough financial times but that didn't make the cut.... There's not much I can do about that. 2. No statement has been released on the 'vote' because it has still to be independently verified which will happen on Monday. Turnout was very, very high and the club collated the last of the votes this morning after people hand delivered last night. The result is fairly clear but until we have it verified, it's only right and proper that we don't announce anything officially. To suggest that nothing has been announced because in some ways the club are scared of what the vote will say is pretty farfetched to say the least. Had the club been scared of the outcome, I doubt the board would have put it to the vote as it doesn't take a genius to work out what way it was likely to go. 3. I have also read suggestions that because Derek Weir is on the board of the SPL, he would have played some part in the document that was published by STV a few days ago. Well, to copy and paste a reply I added to FirParkCorner earlier: I think it's worthwhile starting by saying that neither I or the club can comment or put out a statement for every media story or bit of speculation that may turn out in a newspaper or website - certainly not with deadlines that's for sure. We would be here all day and it would take us away from the job of trying to improve the club in every area which is our main focus. I can confirm no one from Motherwell Football Club had any input into the production of the document you linked and in fact had not seen it prior it to it being distributed. Furthermore, no one from the club has taken part in any discussion with anyone from the Scottish Football League. Any discussions between the Scottish FA (SFA), Scottish Premier League (SPL) or Scottish Football League (SFL) would take place between the executives of each organisation. We, as a club, will not be a party to threatening any other club. Regardless of what league they may play in, each club is free to make their own decisions on any issue as they see fit. 4. Not addressing any particular point, but what I would say is this. Motherwell Football Club have tried to be as open, honest and as transparent as possible during this whole process. It's not easy - indeed, the consequences for our football club are pretty dire to be quite honest and I don't think the gravity of the situation has quite filtered its way down perhaps the way it should (and I speak generally on this whole subject). I take a great sense of pride as a supporter at the progress the club has made in the last four years both on and off the pitch. The ultimate sadness in all this mess for me is that a massive amount of that work is very likely to be threatened through no fault of our own. If/when Rangers FC are not permitted back into the SPL, then the very future (and that's not scaremongering, threatening or anything else - it's the truth) of the club in the short-term will be fully dependant on every single fan who holds Motherwell dear to their heart to really muck in. Dark and difficult times - but with the hope and positivity that at the other end, we can immerge stronger and fitter as a result. Steelmen Forever 'Flow Thanks Flow It was a couple of brief and direct questions on a very serious matter Nobody's saying MFC should respond to evrything Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milo Posted July 1, 2012 Report Share Posted July 1, 2012 The stay away fans that only turn up for the big games are going to need to get their arse along to Fir Park on a regular basis this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatcalf Posted July 1, 2012 Report Share Posted July 1, 2012 If this is true, the club should be demanding the resignation of Neil Doncaster or whoever was resposnsible for the publishing of that document with immediate effect. All involved should be collecting their P45 tomorrow morning, arseholes with no love of our game between them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StipeIsGod Posted July 1, 2012 Report Share Posted July 1, 2012 All involved should be collecting their P45 tomorrow morning, arseholes with no love of our game between them. "Our" being the key point which this group seem to have utterly lost sight of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoMaSano Posted July 1, 2012 Report Share Posted July 1, 2012 Thanks to Flow and the club for the detailed post. We all know that the club can't possibly comment on every story, but when something so toxic comes along I think it is important that the fans know where the board stand, and I this case whether any were actually involved or complicit. The document involved was a filthy threat, coming very close to bribery/blackmail. I'm very glad that we were not involved in it's production. Though the fact that Doncaster could distribute something so damaging to the SPL without the knowledge of the board is quite frankly ridiculous. He's been an embarrassment throughout this whole shambles and really should be getting his jotters. There's no way that the SFL will agree to this proposal, and SPL2 won't get off the ground. We'll be without Rangers for a while as SFL3 is now the best that they can hope for (it's also what nearly everybody, including Gers fans have been calling out for the whole time). We'll rally round, all hands to the pump, and get our club through this. So will fans of the other diddy clubs. Unlike some, we won't sit back and wait for a Whyte/Blue/Green/Brown knight in shining armour to show up and do it for us!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoF Posted July 1, 2012 Report Share Posted July 1, 2012 The thing that I'm finding so startling about and the umpteen other attempts to preserve Rangers has got to be how oblivious the governing bodies seemed to be to the feelings of their member clubs supporters. With the exception of a few clubs, I'd say we are down to almost the bare bones of a support in Scotland. People don't attend for the quality or the glitz and glamour. They attend Scottish football at one of it's lowest points because the clubs are well and truly imbedded in their hearts. Most fans are willing to take the hit, no matter how big it may be, and start from the bottom up if it means the possibility of a fairer future. Now I can only think of two reasons why they have been so far off the mark. 1) They have been simply oblivious to the nature of and attitudes to the game up here. In which case they are incompetent. In which case they shouldn't be running the game. 2) The knew exactly how fans would react however were happy to piss them off because they thought we'd be daft enough to keep putting money into the game. It wouldn't be the first time loyalty has been taken advantage of and if this is the case, they shouldn't be running the game. So which one is it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatcalf Posted July 1, 2012 Report Share Posted July 1, 2012 The thing that I'm finding so startling about and the umpteen other attempts to preserve Rangers has got to be how oblivious the governing bodies seemed to be to the feelings of their member clubs supporters. With the exception of a few clubs, I'd say we are down to almost the bare bones of a support in Scotland. People don't attend for the quality or the glitz and glamour. They attend Scottish football at one of it's lowest points because the clubs are well and truly imbedded in their hearts. Most fans are willing to take the hit, no matter how big it may be, and start from the bottom up if it means the possibility of a fairer future. Now I can only think of two reasons why they have been so far off the mark. 1) They have been simply oblivious to the nature of and attitudes to the game up here. In which case they are incompetent. In which case they shouldn't be running the game. 2) The knew exactly how fans would react however were happy to piss them off because they thought we'd be daft enough to keep putting money into the game. It wouldn't be the first time loyalty has been taken advantage of and if this is the case, they shouldn't be running the game. So which one is it? To be honest it disnae matter a fuck which one it is, as you say whiever way it's put they shouldn't be running the game. One body with football people in charge, not always guaranteed to work obviously but the fuds in power just now are so out of touch they have to be replaced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted July 1, 2012 Report Share Posted July 1, 2012 The best bit of it is that this pandering to protect Rangers by the governing bodies actually achieves the exact opposite reaction from the fans and clubs. The more the SFA, SPL and SFL tell us we need to change the rules to save Rangers, the more everyone else is going to point blank refuse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tweed Posted July 1, 2012 Report Share Posted July 1, 2012 Every now and then I decide to have a bash at writing an article for a blogsite but I can never be bothered setting it up so I never normally share them but I was a bit bored this afternoon and drafted the below: Scottish football is officially a mess. Who would have thought when Rangers went into administration four and a half months ago where it was going to take us? But here we are at the last couple of stations before Armageddon. Or so our ever so bright and cheerful Glasgow media would have you believe. But actually we are maybe at the last couple of stations before a bright new beginning. This week is going to be fascinating with the SFL meeting on Tuesday and the SPL vote on Wednesday. The latter is a bit of a foregone conclusion with six clubs declaring they will vote no and with the result decided you can’t help but feel the other five will follow suit. But Tuesday’s is an interesting one. Some first division clubs are all out against the newco joining their division. Whereas the bright buttons running our game think that is where they should start as the ‘Newco’ v Celtic fixture is where they can make their money and only losing it for one year should be a retrievable mess. Breaking news gents, the supporters don’t button up the back. Fans of the SPL clubs seem to have responded to them saying they will vote No and have been purchasing their season tickets in double quick time this week. Obviously it is only 1 July 2012 and the final figures won’t be in for a few weeks yet but the signs are encouraging. However they want the newco in Division 3 or in the regional leagues as that is what would happen to everyone else. It doesn’t seem unreasonable and if they are given a special pass to Division 1 you can see the forecasted disenchantment returning. Whilst the belief their club have acted correctly may remain they won’t watch a product that is seen as rigged. So there is still a danger of losing thousands of fans to the game. Attendances are down but per population member they are still the highest in Europe so there are lots of people to lose. Which is why the clubs in the SFL need to follow the SPL clubs and not permit the Newco into Division 1. I understand the temptation if you are someone like Ayr or Cowdenbeath. They are never going up another level, survival in Division 1 is the best they can realistically hope for given their size and the opportunity of four league games and the riches that may bring against Newco is a substantial, not to be sniffed at carrot. The boards will see it that way but the fans will not. That is because they are fair minded people who believe that justice and equality are more important than the quick dollar. Ayr, Cowdenbeath or any other club of similar size have one group of people to be faithful to and they are their own fans. I would surmise that any SFL club not doing that and losing more of the small but loyal band of fans they have could be, to quote Vlad, ending up in the grave they dug for someone else. This is not about punishment. What division the newco are in next season actually does not constitute punishment for Rangers at all. This is about the governing bodies thinking the same way as the fans and applying their own rules of admission and not creating ridiculous shortcuts based on self-interest and greed. Remember the new horizon I mentioned. Well here it is. All the clubs have won their fans over this summer by not being bullied by the newco situation. More fans are apparently buying tickets, a gander over Internet forums suggest they are thinking of more ways to part with their hard earned cash, in a time of recession, to further support their own clubs. You see these people care about their club and they care about Scottish football. There is potential here to bring clubs closer together in the community, make the fans more involved and that may see numbers increase and revenues increase in the medium to long term. Not for one second do I doubt that the next two or three years are going to be really tough for the SPL clubs. Monies coming in are going to be down, we all know and grudgingly accept that. We don’t like it but we are where we are and self-preservation is not a reason to bend the rules. Apply the rules as they are written and the fans will respect that more. Money distribution is going to change, of that there is no doubt. The Old Firm had too much say in the SPL and with the 11-1 voting structure they could do whatever they liked to keep most of the cash. So even if the pot is less in the coming years the distribution is going to be more equal which could mean that the money coming from the governing organisation could increase for the so called diddy teams. Obviously nobody knows what will actually happen. Sky and ESPN could pull out though I don’t think they will, but they will probably reduce their deal as Kilmarnock v St Mirren can only be endured so many times. The worst case scenario figures are frightening but it is up to the fans to buck the trend and we have seen that happen in the past and I am sure we will again. The bad news is if the governing bodies start shortcutting they will wonder what is the point and not bother and the Armageddon scenario may arrive. So my plea to the SPL chairmen and clubs, the SFL chairmen and clubs, the SPL board, the steering groups and the Chief Executives of all these organisations is listen to the people who come through the gate every week. They come through good times and bad if the rules are applied fairly and equally to all, they support you financially and they make you sustainable. It needs to be a no to Newco in Division 1. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roly Posted July 1, 2012 Report Share Posted July 1, 2012 tl;dr Only kidding... Good piece. Certainly better than most of the shite I've read throughout this saga and I couldn't disagree with any of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatcalf Posted July 2, 2012 Report Share Posted July 2, 2012 The best bit of it is that this pandering to protect Rangers by the governing bodies actually achieves the exact opposite reaction from the fans and clubs. The more the SFA, SPL and SFL tell us we need to change the rules to save Rangers, the more everyone else is going to point blank refuse. I think you're bang on with that statement, the rise of social media means the outright lies printed by the gutter press are quickly answered publicly. Best thing about it is fans have used the power they've always had at their disposal in a far better way than ever before. Let's hope it keeps going and even the power of the press begins to wane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Diggle Posted July 2, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 2, 2012 Watch out for a 11 team / 40 game / no split proposal for the spl next season. Avoids a Dundee vs Dunfermline bunfight And keeps a vacancy in the league structure for a new Glasgow team next season Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nethertonwellfan Posted July 2, 2012 Report Share Posted July 2, 2012 Watch out for a 11 team / 40 game / no split proposal for the spl next season. Avoids a Dundee vs Dunfermline bunfight And keeps a vacancy in the league structure for a new Glasgow team next season If true, I wonder if it will include no relegation and one up. One down 2 up or Champions in the 1st up and play offs between 11 in the SPL and 2,3 and 4 in the first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Diggle Posted July 2, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 2, 2012 Thing is we're 4 weeks away from kick off and potentially as many as 4 sfl teams could be promoted (with 3 places available) and have had 0 time to prepare for a higher league - with the potential of the div1 dispute. Might be tempting for the 3 governing bodies to run with things as they stand right now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brazilian Posted July 2, 2012 Report Share Posted July 2, 2012 Thing is we're 4 weeks away from kick off and potentially as many as 4 sfl teams could be promoted (with 3 places available) and have had 0 time to prepare for a higher league - with the potential of the div1 dispute. Might be tempting for the 3 governing bodies to run with things as they stand right now you know thats not true, no Rangers in any form! now if they get suspended yes, but as things stand right now with an application for SFA membership Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Diggle Posted July 2, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 2, 2012 The more you look at the make up of the team that threw out this PowerPoint presentation and the surprising supposed inclusion of Rod Petrie who was apparently so vocal beforehand along with a couple of dudes from separate governing bodies. Is this a fuck up where at the end of a much larger meeting 4/5 volunteers went off to pull a document together and someone has leaked it? Still something halibut scented about this whole thing (coming up from the carpet that the media has swept it under) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brazilian Posted July 2, 2012 Report Share Posted July 2, 2012 can we get away from this leaked nonsense, it was sent out to the SFL clubs as a proposal, then it was reported on as it was outrageous, and since their was an SPL meeting with 11 clubs on the 28th, I'm still truly staggered that more SPL clubs didnt come out and distance themselves from it it is truly stinking of shameful knowing and cover up, probably due to the fact that those in charge still have no idea what the general fans think of the situation and their incompetence in dealing with basic rule being breached Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OfficialMFC Posted July 2, 2012 Report Share Posted July 2, 2012 Nobody's saying MFC should respond to evrything Stevie, Sorry, that part (about responding to various points) was actually a copy/past from a thread on FirParkCorner. If you go over and read the context, you'll understand why I said that. Wasn't meant for anyone or anything on here to be honest. Flow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OfficialMFC Posted July 2, 2012 Report Share Posted July 2, 2012 I also felt it only fair to come back on and update everyone regarding the ballot, given it was me who posted on Saturday about it. The results have now been independently verified and agreed. No statement today though. Leeann D has been in meetings all day today and will play a part in penning our formal response. She is due back at Fir Park to finalise results and statement tomorrow. Cheers Flow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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