CoF Posted July 4, 2012 Report Share Posted July 4, 2012 What I don't get contracts say if the Old Firm leave Scotland - neither team is leaving Scotland if Sevoc are relegated to the Third.... I think the contract is if either of them aren't the SPL. The St Mirren piece just uses going to England as an example of why that clause is there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nethertonwellfan Posted July 4, 2012 Report Share Posted July 4, 2012 I don't care anymore. I've reached the conclusion that the supporters are probably going to be shat on in some way regardless of how this ends up. All I can say is that I have lost a huge amount of respect and confidence in a number of people. I have also, like many, lost a lot of enthusiasm for the coming season and, to be honest, Scottish football in general. I'm past wondering what matches, if any, I'll be attending next season. I'll decide that once this parade of shite bags and bottle merchants is complete, we know what's happening, and we know exactly who's been responsible for what. Jay, I am the same. I am sick of this whole situation and I just want it to end. I too feel that the fans will be shafted either whatever happens. The question is can the fans get any crumb of comfort from the shafting. I (and a lot of other fans in Scotland) have been in favour of an expanded league for years and years and opposed the plans for a 10 team league. Now there is a chance of that expanded league and yes there is a price to pay for that and yes we are forcing and bribing the other SFL clubs. I have said that if Rangers go anywhere other than the 3rd I will walk away. This isn't an idle threat because I will. However, today I have just had the carrot that I have always wanted dangled in front of my eyes and I'm thinking again. I'm thinking again because I don't want to walk away from Motherwell, I still want to attend games because it has been a big part of my life for 25 years. After some consideration I might reject it and stick to my guns but I need to ask myself if I'm willing to compromise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finlay Posted July 4, 2012 Report Share Posted July 4, 2012 Very informative read from the St Mirren forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wellfan1984 Posted July 4, 2012 Report Share Posted July 4, 2012 I think the contract is if either of them aren't the SPL. The St Mirren piece just uses going to England as an example of why that clause is there. I would like to see the wording of the contract for myself - if these clauses even exist. St Mirren stated if they leave Scotland SPL says there must be 4x Old Firm games a season.... but also said we'll get a 16 team league 2 years after saying it was 10 teams or bust! The clause is acceptable if it is leave Scotland - it is never acceptable if it is outside the SPL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finlay Posted July 4, 2012 Report Share Posted July 4, 2012 Just out of interest there has been quite a few posters over the last few months stating if Rangers go into the SPL (or now 1st DIv) they will not return. After the Well Society vote and imo one of the above two certainly happening (imo) is anyone still sticking to their guns or the thought of no football now a step too far? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoF Posted July 4, 2012 Report Share Posted July 4, 2012 Would anyone be happy if they went to the first division with on-going penalties for the 2 years they should have spent working their way back up? I.E a 3 year transfer embargo starting this year and points deductions for the first 2 seasons they return to the SPL. Obviously it still isn't ideal but it might soften the blow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay Posted July 4, 2012 Report Share Posted July 4, 2012 Just out of interest there has been quite a few posters over the last few months stating if Rangers go into the SPL (or now 1st DIv) they will not return. After the Well Society vote and imo one of the above two certainly happening (imo) is anyone still sticking to their guns or the thought of no football now a step too far? I've chucked all attempts to work out what games I'll be at next season if any. I'm so fed up with it all that I'd rather just wait until it's all over now and I'll re-visit the idea with a clear idea of what's actually happened and who is responsible for what. I could end up carrying on as normal or boycotting particular grounds, or I could end up shunning it all completely (already something that's been discussed amongst our group that go to games). That said, if Motherwell were to now vote 'yes' following the Well Society vote, I would find it very difficult to go back to Fir Park. As I said though, I'm ruling out second guessing or making plans for next season now. I'll weigh everything up after this is sorted (if it ever happens) and decide whether continued attendance is worthwhile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milo Posted July 4, 2012 Report Share Posted July 4, 2012 I completely agree with both your last posts Jay. I feel the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay Posted July 4, 2012 Report Share Posted July 4, 2012 Would anyone be happy if they went to the first division with on-going penalties for the 2 years they should have spent working their way back up? I.E a 3 year transfer embargo starting this year and points deductions for the first 2 seasons they return to the SPL. Obviously it still isn't ideal but it might soften the blow. I think it's now looking like the First Division is the likely outcome. Therefore, the sanctions become crucial. As I've said before, my main issue with a newco in the First Division is that it paves the way for full-scale corruption. This is an outcome that has been designed to keep sponsors and Sky happy by promising them that Rangers will return to the SPL for the 2013/14 season. The problem is, no one can guarantee this. Injuries, suspensions, McCoist having a mare as manager, young players not doing the business, a team like Falkirk having an outstanding season - there are many reasons why Rangers are not absolutely guaranteed to win promotion from the First Division next year. This then means one of two things - either those behind this proposal, who have placed so much importance on only losing Rangers for one year, will be perfectly happy to let fate take its course and see if Rangers make the SPL (that would be, naturally, unlikely given the apparent potential for financial oblivion); or, Rangers' path to the SPL will be guaranteed. That's when things start getting ridiculous. If Rangers need a win at Falkirk on the last day to guarantee promotion and Lee McCulloch takes one of the most blatant dives in history inside the box in injury time, what happens next? Would a referee be under orders to ensure that Rangers win the game, and therefore promotion, by any means necessary? And even if you don't believe in the prospect of actual match fixing, if this scenario was to play out there's no doubt the officials would be under immense pressure (from all sides) given that one decision could, according to some, completely destroy Scottish football as a whole. And let's say Rangers do win promotion but are still so fucked by sanctions that they struggle in the relegation zone in the following season, along with Motherwell. Are we all happy to go through the same scenario mentioned above, where decisions by officials could, either deliberately or sub-consciously, be taken to sacrifice us in favour of the much-needed Currants? For the First Division plans to work, Rangers need to run away with the league with no arguments. That cannot be guaranteed and therefore leaves the door open for either deliberate corruption or allegations of corruption. Neither are worthwhile IMO. As soon as you open the door for full-blown corruption and potential match-fixing, the gig is up for the game as a whole. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nethertonwellfan Posted July 4, 2012 Report Share Posted July 4, 2012 Just out of interest there has been quite a few posters over the last few months stating if Rangers go into the SPL (or now 1st DIv) they will not return. After the Well Society vote and imo one of the above two certainly happening (imo) is anyone still sticking to their guns or the thought of no football now a step too far? It has gone beyond the vote now. All the cloak and daggers meetings paints Scottish football in a corrupt light. The document released last week was a disgrace and gave the impression that the clubs were voting no in the knowledge this was coming out. However, it has come to light that the clubs were not consulted on this. If I was a chairman of a club I would be irate that I hadn't been consulted and would have made my fans aware of this. Our club did nothing which still leads me to beleive that they are in favour of it. It is a position I can't accept. However, I am now interested in the league expansion aspect of it. It doesn't mean I will accept it but I will listen and weigh up the pros and cons and then make a decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gullane Posted July 4, 2012 Report Share Posted July 4, 2012 Really grateful you started this thread Brazilian. I thought about saying something similar. The current crisis now comes down to two issues - Sky and the SFA. Regards the latter, Scottish football will only regain respect and decorum once it becomes governed by an autonomous body, completely impartial to all clubs. Scotland requires one single authority, an organisation that governs using clear policies and regulations, and manages a risk strategy for all eventualities. Regards Sky, having seen the power the fans have had over influencing the votes of their clubs' chairmen, I think the same could apply to Sky. If thee was an organised boycott (subscription cancellation) by thousands, that could lead to a significant loss of earnings for Sky. Power to the people. so its now being publicly claimed that the main threat to Scottish football is this is also on the back of our own management, stating that the main threat is the loss of TV revenue which is not being guaranteed by the commercial partners not much we can do apart from make sure they know that pulling out or threatening Scottish football to the tune of £17million is unacceptable anyone think fan/customer power can get the message across, or would it harm prospects of retaining sponsorship deals? I've made my choice and just phoned up SKY and cancelled my full subscription, stated my reason for leaving as "SKYs threat to pull out of Scottish football" was told "but thats just speculation, at the moment" responded that they "have my one months notice to issue support for Scottish football to change my mind, but go ahead and cancel for now" pretty sure one dafty, cancelling for that reason will have no effect, but hey to be honest, I'll not stand by and watch MFC go under with no action,as they are taking the fair and honest decision and going with the choice of the fans it might be a pipe dream but if a significant number gave notice of cancellation from all the Scottish clubs then it may have the required outcome EDIT to cancel SKY 08442 410 266 option 3 then option 5, bastards even charge for the call to customer services if your not on sky phone <_> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted July 4, 2012 Report Share Posted July 4, 2012 I would like to see the wording of the contract for myself - if these clauses even exist. St Mirren stated if they leave Scotland SPL says there must be 4x Old Firm games a season.... but also said we'll get a 16 team league 2 years after saying it was 10 teams or bust! The clause is acceptable if it is leave Scotland - it is never acceptable if it is outside the SPL rangers and celtic have never been relegated in 120 years. they have never finished outside the top 3 in the history of the spl. in my lifetime they have never finished in the bottom half of the league. the only way they wouldn't be in the league would be by either resigning or being kicked out or having heavy sanctions placed on them. sky quite smartly protected themselves against those outcomes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wellfan1984 Posted July 4, 2012 Report Share Posted July 4, 2012 We get it you are happy with the corruption with in the game. You are happy that no matter what either side do they are untouchable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shooie Posted July 4, 2012 Report Share Posted July 4, 2012 Really grateful you started this thread Brazilian. I thought about saying something similar. The current crisis now comes down to two issues - Sky and the SFA. Regards the latter, Scottish football will only regain respect and decorum once it becomes governed by an autonomous body, completely impartial to all clubs. Scotland requires one single authority, an organisation that governs using clear policies and regulations, and manages a risk strategy for all eventualities. Regards Sky, having seen the power the fans have had over influencing the votes of their clubs' chairmen, I think the same could apply to Sky. If thee was an organised boycott (subscription cancellation) by thousands, that could lead to a significant loss of earnings for Sky. Power to the people. Sadly, this might have the opposite effect. Hard-nosed Sky Sport executives would see Scottish subscriber numbers fall. They would interpret this as being due to Rangers not being in the SPL. Whether because of your protest or because of disaffected rangers fans would not matter to them. The TV rights would simply be worth less in their view. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
makaveli Posted July 4, 2012 Report Share Posted July 4, 2012 Also for those who are considering leaving sky... they won't blacklist you as it costs them £30 to blacklist a person. That isn't much but with 1000+ customers leaving every week then it would be an excess of £30,000 a week to blacklist everyone who leaves them... they will send you letter after letter and phone you like fuck but will eventually give up. Virgin is much better anyway. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brazilian Posted July 4, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 4, 2012 chemical castration might be the only answer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haggischomper Posted July 4, 2012 Report Share Posted July 4, 2012 How quickly can we arrange that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaka Posted July 4, 2012 Report Share Posted July 4, 2012 a question on the SKY deal, the current £12m pa deal was due to end at the end of next season,the new £16m pa deal was due to supercede this and begin this coming season. So, if SKY did say they would keep the TV Deal for 1 season is it 1 season at £16m? or are they essentially binning the new deal and just running out the old one? Im fucking astounded no-one has any clarity on this,its the 1 thing Doncaster should have been doing during this saga, preparing a plan b. The sooner this clown is punted the better. Smarmy,dodgy haircutted,pish blethering cock goblin that he is 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wellfan1984 Posted July 6, 2012 Report Share Posted July 6, 2012 A very good article ripping to shreds Doncaster and Regen - and showing how shit our super duper TV deal actually is... Article Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madwullie Posted July 6, 2012 Report Share Posted July 6, 2012 TV rights are only worth what someone will pay for them. I don't think anyone has been deliberately getting us a poor deal. In most other countries is it not the case their national broadcaster pays a fortune for the rights? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted July 7, 2012 Report Share Posted July 7, 2012 A very good article ripping to shreds Doncaster and Regen - and showing how shit our super duper TV deal actually is... Article surely the best comparison in that table is austria. the population's aren't far apart although austria is bigger and more affluent. the biggest similarity is that both countries have a much larger neighbour with a huge succesfully league which speaks the same language. the reason the tv value of the spl is less than equivalent leagues in europe is because so many scottish people recieve and watch english domestic broadcasts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wellfan1984 Posted July 7, 2012 Report Share Posted July 7, 2012 You mean like Switzerland who has two giant nations... Sky give us the deal we get because our commercial ability sucks. Anyone who thinks being 2x-4x worse off than the nation's we should be competing with is speaking nonsense. Although I don't believe Doncaster that our deal is only worth £3m but then whoever agreed that should be removed. The SPL is more popular than Spanish Football, Cricket, and most other events Sky show except English Football so we have been sold short by those supposedly in charge of looking after our game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted July 7, 2012 Report Share Posted July 7, 2012 You mean like Switzerland who has two giant nations... switzerland is minted and the swiss franc is sky high which distorts the table. also although most people in switzerland speak french or a form of german switzerland is quite an insular place and you can't compare the relationships of those countries to scotland's place within the uk. do swiss people watch the german or french broadcasts of major tournaments? in television terms our league is second fiddle in it's own country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madwullie Posted July 7, 2012 Report Share Posted July 7, 2012 How many games are shown in these leagues? Would we be happy with Friday Saturday Sunday Monday every week? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Grew Posted July 7, 2012 Report Share Posted July 7, 2012 Regardless of any disgraceful attempts by the executive officers of the SFA, SPL and the SFL and all areas of the self-serving Scottish media, including so-called news media, there was no need to change any rules, have any votes, special meetings, summits or anything else of that ilk, as the rules as they stand should have been applied. These are that any football club that wishes to join the ranks of the professional (and I use the word advisedly) football clubs in Scotland (and there have been many in recent years e.g. Annan Ath; Livingston, ICT, Ross County, Elgin City, Gretna, Peterhead) the they must first apply for SFA membership, membership of the SFL and if the latter is accepted they are entered into the SFL Div.3 and if they wish to progress they must do so sloely on the basis of football merit. The Rangers newco therefore should have been no different. We have had the ridiculous and scandalous pontifications from messrs Doncaster and Regan before and after the vote to deny the Rangers newco application to join the SPL (note a vote to deny their application not to kick them out as most fo the Scottish media muppets were reporting) and IMO if the SPL clubs had anything about them at all then they would be immediately removing Doncaster from office and call for a vote of no confidence in Regan with a view to getting him out also. There behaviour before, during and after this affair has been and continues to be utterly offensive and totally reprehensible. We now have a position where the SFL clubs have been tossed the affair to deal with along with the threat (and despite denials from the parties involved, make no mistake it is a threat) that if they do not agree to Rangers newco being admitted to SFL Div.3 then an SPL2 will be set-up, entry which will be by invite only and the tap which trickles down cash from the SPL to the three SFL divisions (estimated at around £16M per annum) will be turned-off. Blatent bullying and blackmail! We keep hearing that the SPL clubs are the SPL and that the SFA is the member clubs so maybe its time all of the took ownership of both and not allow a few jumped-up petty administrators to run them. They should stand squarely and solidly with the SFL clubs and refuse to allow them be treated in this shocking manner. I'm not quite sure how this could be done but perhaps they could start by scrapping the SPL entirely and getting back under the banner of the SFL because its quite obvious the SPL has been a failure since its senseless inception. This is a crossroads moment for Scottish football and we now need the SPL club chairman to all grow a set and do the right thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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