Brazilian Posted October 27, 2012 Report Share Posted October 27, 2012 Pumped 3-2 victory Craig Moore hat trick Was a bounce game but bring back some confidence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noah Dosser Posted October 27, 2012 Report Share Posted October 27, 2012 Pumped Oh ye of little faith Good result for the U/20's. Having said that it was a much stronger team that played with Francis-Angol, Carswell, Cummins and Hetherington featuring. Rangers were not as strong obviously with a good few of their eligible players in the squad for their game tomorrow. 1-1 h/t Well went 3-1 up before conceding a late goal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finlay Posted October 27, 2012 Report Share Posted October 27, 2012 Good stuff! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lobey_Dosser Posted October 27, 2012 Report Share Posted October 27, 2012 Good news from this morning. Watt scores for Airdrie today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelmaninOZ Posted October 27, 2012 Report Share Posted October 27, 2012 Oh ye of little faith Good result for the U/20's. Having said that it was a much stronger team that played with Francis-Angol, Carswell, Cummins and Hetherington featuring. Rangers were not as strong obviously with a good few of their eligible players in the squad for their game tomorrow. 1-1 h/t Well went 3-1 up before conceding a late goal. :clapping: Good result. Would be nice to have ZFA in the big team next game Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noah Dosser Posted November 12, 2012 Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 U/20's taking on the Hertz tomorrow at Tynecastle 7pm ko. Could be a good crowd there as the Jambo's are having an auction/ fundraising event in the stadium, prematch, and are looking for a good turnout. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noah Dosser Posted November 13, 2012 Report Share Posted November 13, 2012 Hearts 4 -2 Motherwell in the U/20's match at Tynecastle tonight. Strong Well xi went 2-0 up before conceding a stunning goal to go in 2-1 up at h/t. The youngsters deserved their lead and could/ should have been further ahead having missed a couple of really good chances. 2nd half started with Hetherington in the dressing room having been injured just on half-time. This seemed to be the turning point as HMFC started bossing the midfield and eventually overran what became a ragged Motherwell. Hearts made several chances in the 2nd half and converted 3, Well again made 1 or 2 but couldn't find the net. Towards the end Hollis made 2 or 3 good saves to keep the scoreline reasonably respectable at 4-2. Another bad night for the youngsters and you can almost see the confidence drain from them game by game. JJ, imho, must start playing players in position and using a solid formation or the boys could be set back to an extent where they will be completely drained of what little belief they have and end up bottom of the league. Good crowd of approx 1500 at the match. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lobey_Dosser Posted November 13, 2012 Report Share Posted November 13, 2012 Another bad night for the youngsters and you can almost see the confidence drain from them game by game. JJ, imho, must start playing players in position and using a solid formation or the boys could be set back to an extent where they will be completely drained of what little belief they have and end up bottom of the league. Good crowd of approx 1500 at the match. Sounds familiar. Is Carswell doing enough to push for a 1st team place? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted November 14, 2012 Report Share Posted November 14, 2012 You have to ask whether Carswell, McHugh, Hetherington and other fringe players are doing enough to push for first team places. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well 4 Europe Posted November 14, 2012 Report Share Posted November 14, 2012 McHugh had 4 in 4 for the U 20's and yet still couldn't get a sniff of a proper game even when the 1st team went 4 games without scoring. Carswell had a good game in Levante then disappeared. He then had another good 45 mins at Tynecastle and has barely been seen since, this despite the obvious failings of the Lasley/ Law partnership in recent times. In my opinion you have to ask if these boys will ever get a chance under McCall regardless of what they do and if McCall will simply continue to pick his favourites? I mean we've had what 1 win in 8 and yet it seems the majority of the team is untouchable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfcdez Posted November 14, 2012 Report Share Posted November 14, 2012 Another disappointing result which can't be good for morale and confidence , but there are obvious failings in the set up in this country . Looking at last nights team , there were 7 or 8 reserve/fringe players in the starting line-up for us . From that its not hard to see that the younger boys are not getting anywhere near the game time required to prove whether they're good enough or not . It's probably also why there is no consistency in results , as the starting line-up is completely different from game to game so centre backs not having chance to build a partnership , forwards not able to gain an understanding with each other etc. I know everything points towards finance , but doing away with the seperate u19 and reserve leagues is stunting the growth of young talent in this country . When they were both in place it gave the youth a natural progression from playing in a settled side , through integrating with the reserves and onto the first team squad , if they were good enough . Now even our most promising youngsters like Lawless and Watt are not getting a fair crack and moving on elsewhere while imposters like Daley draw a decent wage for warming the bench and contributing the sum total of hee haw . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted November 14, 2012 Report Share Posted November 14, 2012 Another disappointing result which can't be good for morale and confidence , but there are obvious failings in the set up in this country . Looking at last nights team , there were 7 or 8 reserve/fringe players in the starting line-up for us . From that its not hard to see that the younger boys are not getting anywhere near the game time required to prove whether they're good enough or not . In general you're right but it could be argued, from a Hearts perspective, that the system in this country is working given that they won 4-2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfcdez Posted November 14, 2012 Report Share Posted November 14, 2012 From the reports though it seems Hearts fielded a strong side too , so my point is lack of game time afforded to the younger boys in favour of the likes of Hollis , McHugh etc . All the players obviously need to play as much as possible , but having one team for all personnel between u17 and first team to me is not adequate , not only for us , but even more so for teams with far bigger squads than us . So yes , Hearts got a positive result with a strong line up , but at what cost to the progression of some of their upcoming talent ? . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
postiejim Posted November 14, 2012 Report Share Posted November 14, 2012 Any positives to take from the game Noah dosser? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted November 14, 2012 Report Share Posted November 14, 2012 From the reports though it seems Hearts fielded a strong side too , so my point is lack of game time afforded to the younger boys in favour of the likes of Hollis , McHugh etc . All the players obviously need to play as much as possible , but having one team for all personnel between u17 and first team to me is not adequate , not only for us , but even more so for teams with far bigger squads than us . So yes , Hearts got a positive result with a strong line up , but at what cost to the progression of some of their upcoming talent ? . what players in particular are you worried aren't getting enough game time? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfcdez Posted November 14, 2012 Report Share Posted November 14, 2012 Just my opinion that boys who were in the 19s before things changed in general . Boys like Leitch , Ashgar etc deserve to be playing to aid their development and give them a chance to prove if they can deliver whats required on a consistent basis . As an example , Hollis quite rightly plays most games to keep him as sharp as possible incase he is called upon for first team duty . But from there , how much competitive action does the young boy Stewart get ? Don't know if he is in his final year of contract or not , but his chances could be limited to prove his worth . As I say just my opinion , could be totally wide of the mark as I've not been to many of these games Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy_P Posted November 14, 2012 Report Share Posted November 14, 2012 The scorelines themselves aren't really a concern for me, unpleasant as most of them may have been this season. Exclude the results then its more difficult to answer where we are. The aim as I see it is to ultimately deliver players who will go on to make some form of meaningful contribution to the first team. If you consider that in most youth sides it's generally the exception if more than 2 or 3 players from one "year" end up getting senior contracts it begs the question are we really doing so badly currently? You've Francis-Angol and Cummins fairly regular turnouts, Carswell a bit less so. Hetherington has also had some game time and the suggestions were that Erwin might well have also had he not been injured. So in that respect for the guys at that level I would say the 20's are delivering pretty much what's expected of them. Its the younger guys where there is more of a question mark. Gordon Young in interviews has regularly stated that we involve players in age groups beyond their current years to test them and help bring them on. Could it be the case that whilst tough going currently this exposure to what will have been some grizzly senior players in addition to guys a year or two their elder might stand them in good stead for the future? Reports also suggested our preparations were perhaps not ideal this year with a coach appointed belatedly and questions raised over pre-season or the lack-of. Given those factors, maybe it will be next season before more of a mark is made by JJ and, with a season behind them at this level, we begin to get more of an idea of the true capabilites of some of the younger boys involved in the 20's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noah Dosser Posted November 14, 2012 Report Share Posted November 14, 2012 A lot of comments and one or two questions raised here. If it's ok I'll use a broad brush to cover the situation as I see it. The U/20's as stated had a very poor and unprofessional pre season for previously mentioned reasons. However we are now in the middle of November and things if anything are sliding the wrong way viz a viz results and performance. Regarding results not being important, well imho they are. The players are all full time professional players who take part in a competitive league and a cup competition. Notwithstanding they have to learn how winning and losing games effects them, their coaches, the club and the fans so they have a grasp of what the pressures of playing for the 1st team are in reality. Football is a dog eat dog sport and is driven by results, no more no less, and is a very unforgiving place at the top professional level. i prefer not to discuss individuals on the forum as I have a family interest and my views could be quite easily be taken out of context or as being biased towards my relation and or his close friends, however any comment I do make is from an entirely neutral viewpoint and on the basis of what I see. Carswell last night did fairly well and I feel could and probably should feature more for the 1st team. Hetherington was ok until he got injured, although he did still attempt a couple of 'Hollywood' passes instead of keeping possession and the move going and did let his man run off him once or twice. Francis -Angol just doesn't do it for me as a full back. He is a terrific player going forward but he gets caught up the park too often and it is obvious other sides see him as a bit of a weak link defensively as it is a regular feature to see diagonal balls being p0layed into his area when he is playing. The younger players I'm afraid look like what they are young boys. Whilst technically sound they are to my eye lacking core strength and at times look lost. This I stress is not criticism of them more the coaching and training methods employed. They are in a position where they are having to play due to lack of numbers and are not being allowed to find their feet. That said in comparison to other sides they do seem to lack strength. Positives ? Hard one really. The boys are having to learn about defeat and struggling with form, both as a unit and individually. The form of Moore, Murray and Asghar has been consistently good despite the results and performances. Need to take a rest now, sorry for banging on. Hope this helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted November 14, 2012 Report Share Posted November 14, 2012 Regarding results not being important, well imho they are. In countries with much more advanced youth development than Scotland, they tend not to be - even at this age. It's no coincidence that Scottish youth teams often compete well against their peers, but never match up to them at Senior level. One of the reasons is that too much emphasis is put on results. So while our competition is still developing long term skills, we are more focused on winning games. Of course, there needs to be some attention paid to that, but not at the expense of being able to, say, control a ball with both feet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noah Dosser Posted November 14, 2012 Report Share Posted November 14, 2012 In countries with much more advanced youth development than Scotland, they tend not to be - even at this age. It's no coincidence that Scottish youth teams often compete well against their peers, but never match up to them at Senior level. One of the reasons is that too much emphasis is put on results. So while our competition is still developing long term skills, we are more focused on winning games. Of course, there needs to be some attention paid to that, but not at the expense of being able to, say, control a ball with both feet. As I said I only post my opinions which are not gospel nor do they influence the game as I am far from an expert or involved in the sport. However I will have to agree to disagree with you re the results issue. At what age should they become important ? You quite correctly state other countries seem able to produce better technical players who are able to be competitive without experiencing this particular pressure at an early stage. What I would point out is, and I feel this is the crux of the problem, not only in Scottish terms, is that the ruling bodies of the game in this country give far to much credence to foreign systems and set ups. We need to devise our own system for youths which focuses on our strengths, ie skill and competitiveness and stop thinking that the Dutch, Spanish, Portugese and more recently Belgian method is the answer to our problems. The system developed shoud be in keeping with the Scottish/ British psyche rather than trying to bastardise ideas used by other nations whose demographics and mindsets are different from our own. I have to say that Scottish football has declined in tandem with several social factors including probably most importantly the teachers' strike and subsequent erosion of extra curricular sports activities. Non competitive football at youth level has been in place for years now and as far as I can see has had no beneficial effect to our teams. Technically our youngsters are as good as they can be, given the lack of hours annually spent with a ball at their feet in comparison to our continental neighbours, but until the whole ethos of sport in this country is reviewed and a clear strategy based on indigent strengths is developed Scotland and Britain will lag behind for the foreseeable future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted November 14, 2012 Report Share Posted November 14, 2012 Take a look here, for example, about the Dutch approach to youth football and see how many times the word "winning" is used. Of course, winning is a side effect of playing the right way, but every slide in that presentation is about developing the correct techniques and using them in 'realistic match situations'. That is a subtle, but important, difference to being match-result oriented. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted November 14, 2012 Report Share Posted November 14, 2012 I have to say that Scottish football has declined in tandem with several social factors including probably most importantly the teachers' strike and subsequent erosion of extra curricular sports activities. Non competitive football at youth level has been in place for years now and as far as I can see has had no beneficial effect to our teams. we're definitely improving. look at the strongest squads berti vogts could pick and compare it to the best squad we could put out just now. we're getting closer to where we were 20 odd years ago but we're disadvantaged by the big improvement in eastern europe and not having the same benefit from immigration that most of the western nations have had. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lobey_Dosser Posted November 14, 2012 Report Share Posted November 14, 2012 A lot of comments and one or two questions raised here. If it's ok I'll use a broad brush to cover the situation as I see it. The U/20's as stated had a very poor and unprofessional pre season for previously mentioned reasons. However we are now in the middle of November and things if anything are sliding the wrong way viz a viz results and performance. Regarding results not being important, well imho they are. The players are all full time professional players who take part in a competitive league and a cup competition. Notwithstanding they have to learn how winning and losing games effects them, their coaches, the club and the fans so they have a grasp of what the pressures of playing for the 1st team are in reality. Football is a dog eat dog sport and is driven by results, no more no less, and is a very unforgiving place at the top professional level. i prefer not to discuss individuals on the forum as I have a family interest and my views could be quite easily be taken out of context or as being biased towards my relation and or his close friends, however any comment I do make is from an entirely neutral viewpoint and on the basis of what I see. Carswell last night did fairly well and I feel could and probably should feature more for the 1st team. Hetherington was ok until he got injured, although he did still attempt a couple of 'Hollywood' passes instead of keeping possession and the move going and did let his man run off him once or twice. Francis -Angol just doesn't do it for me as a full back. He is a terrific player going forward but he gets caught up the park too often and it is obvious other sides see him as a bit of a weak link defensively as it is a regular feature to see diagonal balls being p0layed into his area when he is playing. The younger players I'm afraid look like what they are young boys. Whilst technically sound they are to my eye lacking core strength and at times look lost. This I stress is not criticism of them more the coaching and training methods employed. They are in a position where they are having to play due to lack of numbers and are not being allowed to find their feet. That said in comparison to other sides they do seem to lack strength. Positives ? Hard one really. The boys are having to learn about defeat and struggling with form, both as a unit and individually. The form of Moore, Murray and Asghar has been consistently good despite the results and performances. Need to take a rest now, sorry for banging on. Hope this helps. Cheers Noah, insight appreciated as always. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noah Dosser Posted November 14, 2012 Report Share Posted November 14, 2012 I'm not really arguing with any points made merely stating that ,for example, the Dutch method of coaching is centred around their national characteristics as should ours. By all means look at their examples of best practice but use it to augment Scottish characteristics not try to put round pegs in square holes. The Germans are probably the ones to look at as they seem not to let other nations' ideas overwhelm their own belief in how their teams should play. For what it's worth I don't believe bigger and stronger is better than skilful. Teams should play small sided games on mini parks with a small ball up to 11 or 12 years. 12- 16yrs games should be played on possibly a 3/4 size pitch with goals of size in ratio to the age group. 16-18 should be introduced to full size pitches and goals and play in a cup competition based loosely on the current major competitions ie group stages then into knockout. 18 onwards as per the current set up as the financial constraints and problems relative to Scottish football are here for a while yet and the ideal of an U/20 or U/21league as a precursor to reserve teams just ain't going to happen. The whole problem though is underpinned by lack of grass root investment by central government. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noah Dosser Posted November 20, 2012 Report Share Posted November 20, 2012 Wee heads up for anyone proposing attending the match v St Johnstone tonight. The game is postponed and will now be played on Tuesday 15th January. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.