Rangers V Motherwell

[Yoshi-1991]

I think the semi final at Hampden summed up our mentality against Rangers all at one time. We went out shitting our pants and Rangers score. We then get back into the game by getting in their faces, not letting them play and keeping the pressure on which lead to us equalizing. After that we returned to the pissing our pants tactics. Rangers score and win the game. We have absolutely no bottle and are too feart of loosing a goal (which we end up doing anyway) that we won't go try to take the lead.

[Wearethemotherwell]

Does it matter if I did? The point is it wasn't a pointlesss statement - it was a pretty poor attemtemt to get cosy with the Rangers fans.

 

But I stand by the statement that all this uproar is down to the fact we were playing Sevco. If it were anyone else there would not be a 27 page thread and we would have forgotten all about it by now.

 

Too many people totally obsessed with Rangers on here.

 

Yes. Because unless we encouraged any Sevco fans, then it was a fucking pointless statement.

[Wearethemotherwell]

Jeez, look at the bigger picture, currently top of the league, good last two seasons with finals and semi finals thrown into it on one of the lowest budgets in the spl. Questioning McCall is absolutely nonsense.

 

In my opinion, we are crying out for a 'c**t' type player. Someone who doesn't care what fans, other players, the ref, etc thinks of them and is just a c**t. I don't mean someone like riordan - he is a ned c**t, I mean a professional c**t - someone like ian black, jim Goodwin, lee mcculloch, who will scream at a player for not pulling their weight, clatter an opponent if they get on their nerves and fears no one. Someone who the home fans love but the away fans hate. Someone like this in our team would be priceless but we don't have and haven't had anyone like this for a while.

 

Jennings was that player. He wasn't just a c**t like mcculloch, he was an impressive player

[MJC_MKI]

I'm sorry .... did someone say that Jim Gannon is the best manager we've had in ten years?

 

I did read that correctly?

 

I assume said poster(s) weren't there when we got humped 6-1 at Ipox - a scoreline that flattered us that day.

 

Holy feck.

 

Gannon - good eye for a player, terrible (& alledged corrupt) manager.

 

 

Jim Gannon appeared to have the right ideas and philosophies as to how the game should be played and it was evident that he was trying to change our style of play, but it was never going to work because it didn't suit the game up here.

 

Now you may argue then, and rightly so, that that says a lot more about Scottish Football than it does about Gannon that we can't move away from the blood and thunder, punt and rush game that we're used to, but his visions were never going to work because he was never going to be here long enough for it to be fully put in place, regardless of all the stuff that went on behind the scenes when he was here. Motherwell managers are in post for what, two, maybe three years tops? That was never enough time to completely change our style of play and apart from that we didn't and weren't likely to be able to attract the players who would have been able to make that style effective.

 

Mind you, saying that, Gannon did however make some very good signings, but unfortunately he couldn't manage them and the fact that numerous players on the books at the time openly disliked working for him, then Gannon was doomed to failure at Motherwell.

 

To suggest that we would have beaten Rangers the other night had he remained in post is ridiculous and pointless because, a) he was never in it for the long haul and was, if you believe some rumours, actively trying to work his ticket from about October 2009, two months before he actually left, and b) We weren't that good when he was here and had he remained until the end of that season then we would have been fighting relegation with the majority of the squad ready for mutiny. We had been well and truly found out on the park and the only way we were heading was downwards and it really is to Craig Brown's great credit that he managed to come in, steady the ship and steer us to a top six finish in 09/10.

 

Now, had Craig Brown still been our manager, then we might have had a better chance of beating Rangers the other night. But I suppose that's pointless saying that too.

[youcancallmejohn]

MJC you are spot on. You could also say the same about Kampman. He wanted to bring the European style to Motherwell but it wasn't easy on the eye. The well fans just wanted the ball booted up the park.

 

Scottish football will be forever in the dark ages.

[Wearethemotherwell]

It was in response to Green's statement. If Green had made the same comments about another SPL club, they may have also responded in a similar manner.

 

It didn't have anything to do with the poor performance on the park, so who cares?

 

In my opinion, the comments from the board and McCall pre and post match suggest that we're quite happy to continue to play second fiddle to Rangers. The attitude of the players on Wednesday night certainly suggested that.

 

It was exactly the same during Rangers' collapse in the summer. Our club showed absolutely no baws until the fans forced their hand and we proved during the week that we're still not capable of standing up to them, on or off the park.

[Malky79]

MJC you are spot on. You could also say the same about Kampman. He wanted to bring the European style to Motherwell but it wasn't easy on the eye. The well fans just wanted the ball booted up the park.

 

Scottish football will be forever in the dark ages.

 

There are fans that are like that but when I think of the good Motherwell teams I've watched over the years not one has been a bunch of long ball merchants. Be it Cooper, Russell et al late 80's, cup winning team, the Krivokapic, McKinnon, Lambert team, McGhees 4-3-3 Porter, Clarkson and McCormack frontline to the current lot. Not saying I never see long balls or the occasional hopeful punt but by and large we always try to play football. Partly the reason I suspect Gannon was such managerial poison, he was blinkered to the occasional need to be more direct.

 

Don't get me wrong I'd be happy to hear our youth development is modeled on Barca/Ajax style and we play football that keeps mindless hoofs to a minimum but I also content to see defenders clear their lines when we losing shape and in serious danger of gifting opposition a cheap goal.

[Catweazles ring piece]

I've come to the conclusion, that our players don't have the will, that the likes of McCulloch possessed on Wednesday night. Prepared to stretch the boundaries of the rules, fair or foul.

 

I'll go back to Willie McLean's team with a mixture of skill, flair and brute force.

We still talk about the Well v St Mirren match played in the 70's. Well we kicked the shyte out of them that day. Pick anybody from McVie, Watson, Millar, McLaren and they would go toe to toe with anyone.

 

Did Colin O'Neil think twice about doing Peter Grant.

Not intimidated in the slightest and who won 2-0 that day?

 

That's the missing link in our team. We're too nice.

While our players had arms round McCulloch being pally, he was booting and elbowing the crap out of our young players, without any response from our senior players.

 

If Higdon had elbowed one of their young kids in the face, you could bet L.M. and co would have been surrounding the ref looking for red cards etc..

 

I just hope the players show the fight today, that was missing on Wednesday.

Come on the Well!

[David]

No, but Motherwell are actively running campaigns and asking fans to get behind the club and even own part of the club so its not asking to much for some kind of response from the club as its obvious the fans were not happy. I know its very rare when Motherwell fans are happy, but this was not just another game.

I couldn't disagree more. You're starting down a slippery slope the day that the club start putting out statements apologising for the team losing, or the players not being up to par. No other clubs does it, and neither should we.

[Catweazles ring piece]

I couldn't disagree more. You're starting down a slippery slope the day that the club start putting out statements apologising for the team losing, or the players not being up to par. No other clubs does it, and neither should we.

 

Why put out the strange Club statement before this match.

And why put out a negative match analysis prior to the game.

 

Two huge mistakes made, amplified by a honking performance.

 

Your correct about statements about poor games, but, under these circumstances a reflective comment would have clarified some issues.

[Shaka]

Exactly,no other club has put out weird stayements trying to lick Sevco's areshole either! Id never be an advoate of releasing statements after defeays but wed night was no ordinary game n no ordinary defeat. Personally I feel the club should never have released said statement, mccall shouldv kept his fuckin mouth shut about his rangers team n ONLY opened it to thank OUR fans (the mugs that pay the useless c***s wages) for their support before privately ripping the gutless players to fuck! Then in all honesty this would have probably blown over by now

[David]

Exactly,no other club has put out weird stayements trying to lick Sevco's areshole either! Id never be an advoate of releasing statements after defeays but wed night was no ordinary game n no ordinary defeat.

I've read this a few times on this forum now. What exactly does it mean? It may have meant more to the fans, or the media more likely, but it was a league cup match. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

For the record, the original statement by the club confused me as well, but two wrongs don't make a right.

[Andy_P]

I've read this a few times on this forum now. What exactly does it mean? It may have meant more to the fans, or the media more likely, but it was a league cup match. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

 

It quite evidently meant a huge amount to a lot of people on various levels as can be borne out by the volume of posts to that effect both before and after the game. If you genuinely haven't been able to pick up on that sentiment I'd be really surprised. Otherwise I can only assume you are being a little obtuse.

 

Turn that one around for a second. What in your view places Wednesday alongside a tie against Brechin, Clyde or Morton as you appear to be implying with the "league cup match, nothing more, nothing less" remark?

[MJC_MKI]

I've read this a few times on this forum now. What exactly does it mean? It may have meant more to the fans, or the media more likely, but it was a league cup match. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

For the record, the original statement by the club confused me as well, but two wrongs don't make a right.

 

 

In my view, that is why this wasn't an ordinary game.

 

Apart from being the first SPL side to play newco Rangers after all the carry on in the summer, thus adding a bit of edge to the game, the Motherwell support as a whole I would guess were absolutely desperate to see us finally get a win over a team, or at least a reincarnation of a team who we have suffered so much misery at the hands of during the past decade.

 

Motherwell fans love to beat Rangers, and Celtic of course, and so all the humpings, frustrations and bad luck against Rangers which had built up over the last ten years meant that this game meant more to the Motherwell support because here was a chance, a much better chance than they've had at any time in recent years to go to Ibrox and win. Of course it was never going to be a walk in the park, but this was Rangers in name only, they no longer had multi million pound Internationalists packing their side, instead they had a side which was akin to that of a mid to top half SPL side who infact had their best players sitting in the stands on the night, so there was room for hope, if not expectation, that we might see a Motherwell team go to Ibrox and actually give them a serious game of it and stand a chance of winning. That is why we look far more fans there than we normally would.

 

What did we get though? The usual Ibrox capitulation and if the defeat wasn't bad enough, the manner in which we lost it was shocking. And that, coupled with the bizarre and needless statement from the club on Monday and McCall's comments and general attitude before and after this game, which appeared that he wasn't overly bothered, is why even now three days on, the majority of the support are still angry at Wednesday's debacle.

 

I said on Monday or Tuesday on here that McCall and the players owed the support a performance and a win at Ibrox for all the dreadful displays they've been subjected to over the years there. We got neither.

[Catweazles ring piece]

I've read this a few times on this forum now. What exactly does it mean? It may have meant more to the fans, or the media more likely, but it was a league cup match. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

For the record, the original statement by the club confused me as well, but two wrongs don't make a right.

 

Reading between the lines, MFC knew the tension surrounding this match (mainly sevco fans and media) and tried to dampen any flashpoint.

Unfortunately, it created a hugely downbeat scenario and was further emphasized by S.M. pre-match comments.

 

If we had performed well and won, everything would have been forgotten quickly.

 

The problem is, MFC generated the negativity at the point when Well fans were actively recruiting supporters to attend Ibrox. The fact that the players/manager didn't perform on the night gives the impression that the negativity impacted the moral or effort given by the team. (or bottlers)

 

Either way, it distracted our focus in a cash generating match and as such questions are being asked.

[Kmcalpin]

I've come to the conclusion, that our players don't have the will, that the likes of McCulloch possessed on Wednesday night. Prepared to stretch the boundaries of the rules, fair or foul.

 

I'll go back to Willie McLean's team with a mixture of skill, flair and brute force.

We still talk about the Well v St Mirren match played in the 70's. Well we kicked the shyte out of them that day. Pick anybody from McVie, Watson, Millar, McLaren and they would go toe to toe with anyone.

 

Did Colin O'Neil think twice about doing Peter Grant.

Not intimidated in the slightest and who won 2-0 that day?

 

That's the missing link in our team. We're too nice.

While our players had arms round McCulloch being pally, he was booting and elbowing the crap out of our young players, without any response from our senior players.

 

I just hope the players show the fight today, that was missing on Wednesday.

Come on the Well!

 

Good post Alan. In the main we're just too lightweight and soft, especially in the midfield and defence, critical areas of the pitch. In recent years we've implored the team to get in the OF faces; hassle and harry them. That has not happened. Instead the OF players get in our lads' faces and bully them. We've had some months now to strengthen the team in critical areas and have not done so. I'm not referring to multi million pound players here - just robust solid, and reliable players who can show a bit of aggression and steel.

 

Watching Levante and Panathanaikos was a real eye opener for me. Both typical European sides if there is such a thing. I was expecting to see players around 5-8 or 5-9 in height and in need of a good square meal. Not a bit of it - they had pretty big lads in all areas well capable of holding their own physically; more capable than us.

 

Oh for a McVie, Millar or MacLaren right now.

[David]

It quite evidently meant a huge amount to a lot of people on various levels as can be borne out by the volume of posts to that effect both before and after the game. If you genuinely haven't been able to pick up on that sentiment I'd be really surprised. Otherwise I can only assume you are being a little obtuse.

 

Turn that one around for a second. What in your view places Wednesday alongside a tie against Brechin, Clyde or Morton as you appear to be implying with the "league cup match, nothing more, nothing less" remark?

And you believe this is reason enough for the club to release a statement addressing the teams performance?

 

Obviously it was a big game in the respect that we were playing Rangers and so on, but look at the post I quoted. The poster was talking about the club releasing a statement because we lost this particular game.

 

It's really quite simple, we played Rangers, we played shite, we got knocked out of the cup. End of story. No statements needed.

 

This whole carry-on is being blown way out of proportion. I don't even want to think what this place will be like if we lose to Celtic today...

[Finlay]

I would agree that we have little muscle in midfield. I wonder if the gaffer has toyed with a back two of Cummins and Ramsden and Hutch in midfield? I think he 'started' his career there. Not saying that it would work just thinking in type really.

[Andy_P]

And you believe this is reason enough for the club to release a statement addressing the teams performance?

 

Obviously it was a big game in the respect that we were playing Rangers and so on, but look at the post I quoted. The poster was talking about the club releasing a statement because we lost this particular game.

 

It's really quite simple, we played Rangers, we played shite, we got knocked out of the cup. End of story. No statements needed.

 

This whole carry-on is being blown way out of proportion. I don't even want to think what this place will be like if we lose to Celtic today...

 

I didn't mention the first thing about MFC releasing a statement or otherwise so unclear why you choose to query that. In fact I even removed the line where you talked about a statement in your previous post.

 

You posed a question querying along the lines of why people were seeing Wednesday's game as more than a bog standard League Cup game. I responded to that question, suggested to you that you already knew why it was something more than just a League Cup game.

 

My response had nothing whatsoever to do with any mooted statement.

[Finlay]

It was much more than a normal League Cup game. I've heard it said that we were 'representing the SPL'. Never heard that before any League Cup tie in my lifetime.

[David]

My response had nothing whatsoever to do with any mooted statement.

Yet mines did, so by removing the part of my post that you did my view is being taken out of context.

 

The point I'm arguing against is that the club should have, for some reason, released a statement after the game because we lost badly in a game that some fans consider to be more than just a regular cup game.

 

It was much more than a normal League Cup game. I've heard it said that we were 'representing the SPL'. Never heard that before any League Cup tie in my lifetime.

Heard it said by who? The numpties in the Glasgow-based media? Fuck them. We were representing no one but ourselves in this game.

[Finlay]

Yet mines did, so by removing the part of my post that you did my view is being taken out of context.

 

The point I'm arguing against is that the club should have, for some reason, released a statement after the game because we lost badly in a game that some fans consider to be more than just a regular cup game.

 

 

Heard it said by who? The numpties in the Glasgow-based media? Fuck them. We were representing no one but ourselves in this game.

 

Media, fans of other Clubs, as well as our fans. We had pretty much the whole support of Scottish Football bar Celtic fans who want their team to pump them. Regardless, of the opinion of who we were representing or not, to state this match was just another League Cup tie is so far off the mark it is quite astounding.

[weeyin]

I'll go back to Willie McLean's team with a mixture of skill, flair and brute force.

We still talk about the Well v St Mirren match played in the 70's. Well we kicked the shyte out of them that day. Pick anybody from McVie, Watson, Millar, McLaren and they would go toe to toe with anyone.

 

St. Mirren were a lower league team at that point and beating them in a home match, while a decent result, isn't exactly reaching the dizzying heights.

[Special aka]

...................................... Pick anybody from McVie, Watson, Millar, McLaren and they would go toe to toe with anyone...........................................

 

What I'd give to have a couple of them in our current back 4.

[SteelmaninOZ]

What I'd give to have a couple of them in our current back 4.

 

Aye