Motherwell Vs Celtic Discussion Thread

[Kmcalpin]

Another poor performance today. Celtic could have won 8/9 -0 and we had not a single effort on target. It summed it all up for me when a Celtic fan said afterwards that they will play better and get beat.

 

In fairness Darren Randolph and ZFA had decent games and Michael Higdon can't be faulted given his total lack of support. I thought that playing Ramsden in midfield would have been a good move but he sat so deep that he was, in effect, part of a back 5. Keith Lasley was pushed far too far forward and looked uncomfortable given his lack of pace. Jamie Murphy again look totally ill at ease in his left sided role and sat far too deep to do anything of note. We were surprised that he wasn't hooked before half time in favour of Henrik Ojamaa. Disappointingly we defended far too deep with both 10 and 11 men.

 

Many other posters have summed up our weaknesses pretty accurately. In short our formation and tactics were confusing even for the players, let alone the fans. It was unbelievable wasn't it that Celtic caught us out about 8 times with the long ball up the left hand side.

 

Very few positives to be taken out of today's game.

[Turbulence]

Was very disappointed, despite Wednesday's result genuinely believed we could win today but we were completely outclassed. Randolph was exceptional today. Some massive over reactions in here as well though.

 

 

On a side note they are much better than I thought they were and actually played some decent stuff, not sure if that's cause how bad we were or because they were just good?

[steelboy]

randolph and zfa can hold their heads up. lasley and hutchy were decent at times.

 

the players are the least of our worries. mcccall shows nothing that suggests he is a good manager. today's tactics, starting line up and substitutions were all miles out. he took over a strong squad full of leaders and without craggs and jenno we are suffering.

 

ramsden - never a midfielder. barely played a pass and only won one tackle i can remember and that was when he was at cb. the phrase one paced could have been invented for this guy.

 

nicky law - hid for the time he was on the park, when mccall takes his best boy off you know he is struggling. it's deja vu but we need to get law playing for the team rather than the team setting up so law can do whatever he wants.

 

higdon - back to his usual self today. still better than last year's farce but everytime he is on the ball it's with his back to goal heading back towards randolph. utterly hopeless as a lone striker.

 

humphrey - the guy's presence on the park is making a mockery of our entire club. every time he starts we are playing a man down.

 

daley - makes andy roddie look like platini. needs deported.

 

cummins - i like him and i think he looks the art 95% of the time but the other 5% is killing us. he seems to be choosing the lazy/easy option too often just now. everyone on here could see he needed dropped but mccall decided to let him get sent off and score an og. i'd have page in ahead of him right now.

 

we are in a decent position and it could be much worse - dundee united - but we shouldn't be concentrating on what other teams are doing. we don't have huge quality but we have enough to do well in this league, across 9 domestic games we have been disappointing. i'm finding it difficult to imagine mccall turning things around.

[Well 4 Europe]

I agree we're lacking a leader, a lot people rightly said after Wednesday they'd like someone like McCulloch and I've already stated we're missing Craigan for me. Look at the 2nd goal today, young centre half having a poor game makes a bad mistake and puts the ball into his own net and who's there to tell him to get up and keep his chin up and get on with it? Young Zaine Francis Angol(who done himself proud I thought today) who picked him up and looked like he told him to get over it. Where were the experienced players? I'm not advocating mollycoddling players but who was there to lift the young player's head when it went down? Hateley and Hutchinson weren't interested. Randolph was too busy going apeshit. Experienced pro like Ramsden said nothing. Our captain and leader Lasley had his head down trudging towards the half way line. Not even just young Cummins though did anyone see any passion, aggression or an attempt to lift his teamates from anyone in Claret and Amber. As soon as the first goal went in it was head down, stopped talking and we just went to pieces.

 

We desperatley imo miss someone like Craigan and his experience to bark orders and talk the younger players through games. I even noticed Clancy was quite good this and had a bit of aggresion about him and wasn't affraid to speak out. Nobody willing to take charge and lead on the park for me and we looked like a rudderless ship today and not for the first time this season.

[Welldaft Mk1]

across 9 domestic games we have been disappointing. i'm finding it difficult to imagine mccall turning things around.

 

I am not part of a happy clappy brigade, but it is comments like the one above that baffle me and why I would not take the MFC Managers job for £1m PA.

 

We are currently sitting 2nd top of the SPL. We have only lost to Celtic. We finished 3rd last season.

 

Let me ask a Q of all the doom merchants. Where should we be in the SPL with the budget and resources we have - 7th possibly 8th???

 

I noted the comments from an earlier poster about people blowing off steam and all that. I suspect that is what most posters do. But some posts and comments have me worried that sales of Valium will go through the roof were we actually to be in 7th or 8th.

[sinjy]

Much of what I thought about today has already been said. We were outclassed but remember the wages of any two Celtic players probably adds up to the same as our whole team.

Thank goodness for Randolph. God help us when he leaves. He must be worth ten to fifteen points a season. His distribution though was poor and I wondered during the game if he was getting a bit fed up with waht was happening in front of him.

The defence is missing Craigan or a leader. Hutch is a good player but he is not yet ready to take on that role. He still needs an experienced man beside him. I was as surprised as the rest that Cummins was in the team today. He is a good prospect but needs to be nursed and should have been left out. I would have replaced him with Ojamma early in the second half, put Ramsden to CB and went for it. Hateley was posted missing at their second goal but put in some good tackles. He should never be considered for any other position than right back. Angol was the one bright spark of the day. He recoverd well after his horrendous mistake that gave them an early chance. Great attitude and another bright prospect that needs to be introduced carefully to the side.

Our midfield was completely over run. I would give Humphrey 30 minutes and if he is not cutting it get him off. He performs one game in ten and is honking in the others. Law was anonymous. Lasley as usual ran about a lot but did very little. At 32 he is going to be less able to get about the pitch and I feel that his days are numbered. Tin hat on after that considering the love in on this forum for him.

As for Murphy many people on here questioned the board when they accepted £200000 for him last year. That is beginning to look like a good deal. He is too predictable cutting inside every time or turning back when he realises he does not have the pace to beat his man. He is far too light weight. Having said that he put in two good crosses early in the first half but there was no one on the end of them.

Ramsden was lying too deep. Maybe not the best day to judge his first game in midfield and whether he can replace Jennings. It will be interesting to see if McCall keeps him there next week or moves him back to CB.

I thought Higdon did his best up front but with no support any passes he made were backwards as there was noone from the midfield running beyond him.

Then there is the horrible Celtic support. Every time I come away from an Old Firm game I feel dirty and polluted. They have the gall to put up a banner complaining about TV interfering with KO times. Every team in Scotland apart from them would survive without TV money. Each club would find their level and we would have a competitive league. But they need the money so that they can pretend that they are a big club and can compete in Europe

And please MFC never again make a statement telling supporters to sit during a game. Everyone in the South Stand stood for the whole game and no action was taken by the stewards or police.

[dosser1886]

In isolation the game today wasn't, (being generous), exactly great but not unexpected either. We were a bit better than Wednesday but in all fairness beaten by a far better team and should have in the end had a real doing. We didn't exactly help ourselves at any point but there you go. I wasn't as pissed off today as I was during the week.

 

If the games had been a few weeks apart we would all be reacting much differently to that defeat today and be able to put it into its proper context and be fucked off just not as much as we are just now.

 

Not much we can do but put them to bed forget them and move on and hope that we learn from them for once. McCall has been great for us up to now and the danger is to forget all the good stuff on the back of a couple of bad results and performances. Our bread and butter stuff starts again next week onwards and upwards.

[Noah Dosser]

I've read a lot of posts regarding the last 2 defeats and feel now is the time to add my tuppence worth.

 

The team is bereft of leadership on the pitch. No offence to Laz but there is a lack of the ability to drive the team on as a captain.

 

There is a clear lack of cohesion and organisation at the back. Obviously Craigen was doing this and no-one is picking up where he left off. Much as Randolph is playing out of his skin perhaps he should start doing it as the back 4 seem unable to do so.

 

There is a distinct lack of fight and belief coursing through the team which is a not unsurprising effect given the foregoing deficencies.

 

McCall has made mistakes with his team selections and has, it would appear blindspots when it comes to certain players. Cummins has been found out recently re his lack of pace, marking and his desire to clear balls from the line rather than attack them in the box. Kerr is a centre half not a full back and IMHO has been hung out to dry a wee bit, but this is indicative of McCall's strategy. Ojamma is an impact player and should only be used from the bench until he can prove his consistency. Hateley should be at right back.

 

There are people posting on here bemoaning a lack of fight/ dig or whatever you would call it, yet when it suggestions are made re player/s at the club, albeit young and inexperienced, who have this in spades, some posters then decide they would rather have a Cannavaro or a Maldini, who statistically made 1 tackle per match. All very well but these guys had some seriously tough and committed teammates alongside them and are with all due respect rare in football.

 

I'll give you 3 young players who are full of heart and are no respecters of reputations or players who earn more; Asghar, Moore and Murray. They are not the finished article by any means and may or may not be world beaters but by God anyone playing against them knows they have been in a game.

 

It would seem looking in that SM only fancies players who are English or who have played or been through an English Academy ( cue sour grapes, axe grinding etc etc) despite having home grown players at his disposal who are as good if not better than his favourites, and, probably more importantly, have a desire to win at all costs.

[CoF]

 

we don't have huge quality but we have enough to do well in this league, across 9 domestic games we have been disappointing. i'm finding it difficult to imagine mccall turning things around.

 

 

i think he is a tactically inept simpleton...

 

 

 

 

As WelldaftMK1 says.... baffled.

 

 

 

Sitting third after 9 games in a tight league = disappointing.

 

Tactically inept simpleton taking us to our highest ever points tally.

 

We aren't an EPL or La Liga team miraculously playing in the SPL and we don't have a middle eastern consortium farting money out the sand at us. We have a crumbling stadium, a squinty pitch, a home crowd of 4'000 and a shite TV deal. McCall has his faults but he's a fucking good manager for us.

 

We aren't going to get the 'perfect' manager you seem to think is within our reach.

 

Fuck me.

[ankles]

been out all night so a wee bit pissed, but my take on the game was , i felt five mins into the second half that i could have nipped out for a pint and not missed a thing. but being rather misguided i stayed and saw erxactly that . 45 mins that would have gave Craig Levein a boner. Total defense. We were beaten by the better team so no disgrace at least it wasn't as bad as weds

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

night night

[smiddy]

from ma seat in the pod stand you could v parked that BIG GOLD COLOURED DOUBLED DECKER BUS in behind the south stand in the middle of our defence in the 2nd half and still none of our defenders would iv picked it up imo 0 2 deff flatered us could iv been 6 easy there goalies kit wont even need washed in fact he only took a 5 min break at half time then came back out wi stevie woods so he could rember what the ball looked like

[ropy]

Onward and upward (maybe not up), glad that week is over.

 

Randolph excellent of course but I also thought Higgy did really well now that we have worked out how to play the ball to him. He played well but it was completely ineffective as he had no support so all his lay offs went backwards.

 

ZFA did really well other than that juggling the ball off his knee incident in the box early on.

 

Why were we getting caught out with the ball over the top? Midfield not closing down? Defence playing too far up the park? Ball not getting attacked in the air?

 

Anyway, the next couple of games will give us an idea of how our season will go and where we are likely to finish.

[SteelmaninOZ]

You can pick out the good and the bad of the game here...and the empty seats

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMJECvJw-h8&list=PL0DF74379D4B448F0&index=1&feature=plcp

[mfc88]

Agree with most comments made, particularly the one about needing a leader. But IMO, we don't just need a leader, we need someone who the opposition fear, who will leave the boot in at times if necessary. Personally, like a lot of others, I don't like this style of play but our team at the moment is a bunch of jessies who players like Forrest and brown will run at all day.

[foghorn]

Better than Wed but still lots to do. Badly missing Jenno and attempts to fill the void have failed so far - Ramsden not the answer either.

Big game for us next week. Both teams being beaten easily recently.

[Spiderpig]

No complaints about yesterday, we were well beaten by a much better team, i think we done very well to keep the score down to 2. Celtic are by far the best team we will face all season, so as in previous years anything we get from them is a bonus, they will win the league easily. Its how we play against the other 10 teams that matters and from results so far we have nothing to fear from any of them.

8 games played in a very tight league and we are sitting 2nd so we are ok, its been a bad week but onwards and upwards and back to winning ways next week as Dundee untd are utter pish at the moment .

 

 

[welladad]

Totally agree with your appraisal Spiderpig. We were taken apart by a much better team. I hope SM doesn't try to change too much of what we were doing before the Old Firm matches and is able to work on restoring confidence before we take on United. Its been a bad week but we have to look forward now.

[numpty]

The team is bereft of leadership on the pitch. No offence to Laz but there is a lack of the ability to drive the team on as a captain.

I'd agree with that, unfortunately. It was always going to be between him and Hammell I suppose, but so far Keith doesn't really seem to fire up and rally the players on the pitch when required. I hope that comes over time, but in the meantime I wonder if one of our younger, mouthier regulars (Hateley? Hutch? I dunno) might have thrived on the extra responsibility and turned out to be a better choice -- never did Tom Boyd any harm (not that he was exactly mouthy, mind you!)

 

That said, as others have pointed out: with the resources they have, if Celtic aren't able to brush aside most teams in the SPL like that most weeks, they're doing something seriously wrong.

[Finlay]

The choice of Captain appears to be down to age and experience. Craigan was always in conversation with the ref. I don't see Lasley doing that much. Other than that the role of the Captain is overstated as the manager is only feet away shouting instructions to the players. The Captain should be lifting players up with a quiet word....say if a defender scores an og or if one of their players is roughing up one of ours.

 

I have yet to see Lasley's influence here on the park. A better choice than what we have? That's the problem isn't it and probably why he has the armband.

 

Randolph possibly but I am not a fan of keepers having that role when they are confined to such a small space on the pitch.

 

After that Higdon...but I doubt he would want the extra responsibility and it wouldn't be a popular choice.

[siebsbarmyarmy]

In my opinion Lasley has been bollocks all season. One of our poorest players. Wether that's due to the added pressure of captaincy and leading younger players or the fact that he is missing Jenno I don't know

 

What I do know is that he is off the pace completely, passing tackling and leadership

 

I'm sure I will take a fair bit of flak for this and I do have a lot of time and respect for Las but this year is a year he has to step to the mark.

[Steve Diggle]

McClean would have someone like Hutch as captain. Harness his natural on field vocal encouragement of the team and hope the extra responsibility takes away a bit of the rashness.

[MJC_MKI]

In my opinion Lasley has been bollocks all season. One of our poorest players. Wether that's due to the added pressure of captaincy and leading younger players or the fact that he is missing Jenno I don't know

 

What I do know is that he is off the pace completely, passing tackling and leadership

 

I'm sure I will take a fair bit of flak for this and I do have a lot of time and respect for Las but this year is a year he has to step to the mark.

 

 

Lasley is missing Jennings badly imho. That and the fact that he's not getting any younger is having a poor effect on his game and a result, our midfield.

[joewarkfanclub]

Just watched the game on Alba.

 

I can understand the frustrations given our deficiences were laid bare for all to see again.

 

However, I think we should retain some perspective. Despite the gaffer not really needing to state the obvious, Celtic ARE better than us in every single position bar in goal and even there it is a close call.

 

With that it mind I thought we started the game ok and limited them to very few clear cut chances. Our big problem is that we cannot guarantee that we wont ship a soft goal and true to form we managed that twice. After that we dont have a plan b because if we open up we will just get a doing.

 

The second half again started ok but the sending off kills the game. I dont know what the manager can really do about that.

 

The arguments that he shouldnt have started Cummins in the first place and that his team selection was wrong in a number of areas is fair enough. Its certainly not the team I would have gone with, however, the contention that McCall is a bad manager is wide of the mark IMO.

 

He may be too cautious at times. He may have his favourites and get his team selection horribly wrong at times, however, despite all these things he would seem to be doing better than 10 other SPL managers at this time with one of the smallest budgets in the league.

 

Time to take a deep breath. Put a very bad week behind us and focus on backing the team next week against one of our main rivals for 2nd spot.

[real dosser]

We need a big hard ugly bugger to play in the middle of the park and put his foot in where its needed. Somebody who won't be bossed about by the likes of ned boy Broonie.

 

Wanyama strolled through the game yesterday and thats the type of player we need in the engine room. Somebody strong with a bit of presence about them.

 

Only problem is we don't have the money to bring anybody in.

 

Wonder what Psycho is doing this weather ????

 

[sbcmfc]

We also lack anyone to take any responsibility going forward! At least with ojamma in the side you have that.