Shotts Well Fan Posted October 29, 2012 Report Share Posted October 29, 2012 Depressed as Feck over the weekend and it would be easy to blame an incompetent ref and linesman but there have been worrying signs recently. For me we have not adequately replaced Jennings and both Lasley and Law are not being used effectively. I would bring in Carswell in the holding role allowing Las to get forward and Law to be getting forward from the left more often. The defence is shakey and not getting enough support from the midfield (lost 2 similar goals to Hearts and Hibs). Not sure the Kerr/Ramsden partnership works but given Hutchison's absence there are not many alternatives. I was very surprised Page went to Accies but it gives him some game time and he is back in January? Like others I would prefer to bring the younger squad players through but many fans would moan at them when they dont perform - Look at the criticisms meted out to Forbes, Page, Saunders etc. We need to be patient and may have to accept a bottom six finish or 2 over the next few years. It will pay long term dividends. Although I dont see us getting into relegation trouble (he says hopefully). I do think we should raise some funds from some sales in December (Murphy/Randolph) and get in 3-4 players to bolster numbers but this is easier said than done. Not sure there is an easy solution and I dont put the blame solely on McCall as he has a difficult hand to play. However, I do wish he was more adventurous in using some of the younger guys rather than Daley/Ramsden etc. Also Higdon's head was down and should have been subbed 10 mins before he was. He also needs to be able to change a game if not going right and I dont feel he does this enough. Both Houston and Craigan pointed out that when we go behind other teams sit in and we struggle to break them down - we need a Plan B. Well that has cheared me up no end and I am off for a drink and to kick the dog!!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted October 29, 2012 Report Share Posted October 29, 2012 A decent cup run comes down to luck as you have mentioned in this post which renders the rest of it pointless. Not at all. I did not say that a decent cup run comes down to luck. Certainly luck is an element, in terms of the draw and perhaps in some individual games but its only a factor, in most cases a minor one. Even if we were to be very fortunate 3 games on the trot in drawing lower league opposition at home there's no guarantee whatsoever that we'd win all 3 games. I'm long enough in the tooth to remember many games in which we played lower league opposition and have been knocked out. Ayr United, Dundee, Clyde, Queen of the South, Queens Park, East Stirling, Stirling Albion, and East Fife have all knocked us out at some point. Then theres been a good number of defeats at home by so called weak SPL sides. I would think it very unlikely that a team could reach the semi finals simply on the basis of good luck. Even if the draw is kind you still have to beat the opposition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finlay Posted October 29, 2012 Report Share Posted October 29, 2012 Not uncommon for a team that is garbage in the SPL to reach the Scottish Cup Final. Or even teams from outwith the top tier. Can't see it being us this year though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'Wellfan 2k7 Posted October 29, 2012 Report Share Posted October 29, 2012 In my opinion, it's too early in the season to write ourselves off! Don't think we will win again for a couple weeks however. St Johnstone and Dundee united are both stronger than us for different reasons. One being a success high, and the other being desperation (when in need of a win, you play Motherwell). I don't think we can blame anyone yet. We always have poor spells in a season. We could win every game til the end of January for all we know. Regardless of the future, Come on Ye 'Well!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian-in-Oz Posted October 30, 2012 Report Share Posted October 30, 2012 Maybe it's all just a clever ruse to keep scouts away from Fir Park so we don't lose anyone in January. When the window shuts we'll start flying again. On a more serious note if he is going to insist on playing Law & Lasley as his midfield duo would it not be better to have Lasley as the holding midfielder & letting Law push on as he has better pace & the ability to set up more chances than possibly anyone else in the league. The only 2 concerns i have with McCall is his complete lack of a plan B & his absolutely dreadful use of substitutes. How often have we seen him wait far too long to make a change & then when he does he either takes the wrong player off or brings the wrong one on. For all those people shouting for McCall's head would they rather have a Jimmy Calderwood, John Hughes type of guy? Coz that's all we could afford & would be available mid season. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montrose Well Fan Posted October 30, 2012 Report Share Posted October 30, 2012 To be honest we shoudn't of sent page out on loan as he is better than ramsden and cummins. We also need a new striker and center midfielder as Lasley is slowing down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted October 30, 2012 Report Share Posted October 30, 2012 For all those people shouting for McCall's head would they rather have a Jimmy Calderwood, John Hughes type of guy? Coz that's all we could afford & would be available mid season. surely there is the same amount of managers available mid season and close season? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well 4 Europe Posted October 30, 2012 Report Share Posted October 30, 2012 surely there is the same amount of managers available mid season and close season? I'm intrigued, so who would you want to replace McCall with if you got your wish? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Diggle Posted October 30, 2012 Report Share Posted October 30, 2012 Himself 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 I'm intrigued, so who would you want to replace McCall with if you got your wish? ideally we go for someone with a wide knowledge of players and contacts who will be able to bring in the large amount of new players we will need whilst also dealing with the reduced budget that we are likely to have next season (£300k loss this season unless we sell someone or have a good scottish cup run). i'm sure we wouldn't be short of applicants and the board have done well the last four times they have went looking for a manager. i'm not the only person who thinks mccall isn't cut out for that particular task. we don't owe him anything and the club is walking a tight rope at the moment. the club went into decline with the full butcher-australia carry on and malpas taking the reigns. we can't afford that now, we need to be alert before the rot sets in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well 4 Europe Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 ideally we go for someone with a wide knowledge of players and contacts who will be able to bring in the large amount of new players we will need whilst also dealing with the reduced budget that we are likely to have next season (£300k loss this season unless we sell someone or have a good scottish cup run). i'm sure we wouldn't be short of applicants and the board have done well the last four times they have went looking for a manager. i'm not the only person who thinks mccall isn't cut out for that particular task. we don't owe him anything and the club is walking a tight rope at the moment. the club went into decline with the full butcher-australia carry on and malpas taking the reigns. we can't afford that now, we need to be alert before the rot sets in. In fairness Jim Gannon meets that criteria you've outlined.. It might shock you but I'm not sure McCall is the man for the job either, however I don't agree with you that he should be sacked. I think a mutual parting of the ways at the end of the season could be best for both parties. I'll try and explain before some people jump down my throat. McCall has done a great job so far no doubt, Scottish cup final and top six finish in his first half season. His first full season we reach a record SPL points total and qualify(somewhat fortunately) for the Champions League for the first and probably only time in our history. However let's be honest where else is there for him to go? Look at this season, his budget has been cut drastically and we seem to be on the decline as a team. If he get's us to a top six finish this season and get's the youngster some first team experience in preperation for next season then it will have been a successful season for me. However next season his budget will probably be cut again and he'll lose probably at least 9 of the first team in the summer. Is it really worth his while trying to rebuild the team? Will he just end up undoing all the good work he done in his first 18 months at the club? Does he even have the contacts as most(if not all?) of the players he's brought in from down south he seems to have managed at Bradford at some point. His 'contacts' do seem limited and if his budget is cut again will we end up with a team of ex Bradford League 2 players? Things can also go stale. Plenty of managers stay too long and things can turn sour. It already seems to be starting for McCall surprisingly. Despite what he's achieved certain sections of fans have never seemed to be fully behind him. Be that because they don't like his style of football, or his appaling OF record or just the fact he use to play for Rangers. I don't know. However there seems to be a real sense of negtivity surrounding the club in what really should be an enjoyable season for Scottish football. If I were McCall I'd try and get this season back on track and get a top six finish(which is well within reach imo) and get out before the fickle fans turn on him if he fails to start next season brightly. He'll have done his flailing managerial career the world of good and should be able to pick up a cushy League 1 job at the very least with a decent sized club. We've had plenty of good times during his tenure but got out before things go stale. Everyone wins.. Assuming of course we pick the right replacement. However finding someone with a good contacts list of decent players willing to play for what we pay as well as being able to blood the youth players is easier said than done. As I said last time we picked out Gannon and he did bring through the youngsters and brought in some very good players but we all know how it ended. I'd just hope we'd continue our approach of thinking outside the box and don't go for a Hughes or a Calderwood. Someone young, ambitious with fresh ideas and a new approach that will relish the challenge. Maybe even a foreigner who knows? I like McCall and can't deny he's done a great job, but I think a parting of the ways at the end of this season could/would be beneficial for both parties. I'm not sure that he'll be at Fir Park next season regardless of what happens this season anyway. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian-in-Oz Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 surely there is the same amount of managers available mid season and close season? Every close season there is a plethora of managers who depart their job either by being sacked or a parting of ways so no there isn't the same amount of managers available just now that will be available close season. And just because a manager gets sacked doesn't necessarily mean he's crap. AVP got sacked by Chelsea but i wouldn't class him as crap. I'm not saying we could ever attract a guy like that i'm just saying that there's times when a perfectly good manager just doesn't fit in with a club & gets sacked but could do more than a good job for us. Come close season we will know if we are looking for a new manager or not but by God please don't hand the job to Kenny Black Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yabba's Turd Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 Scott Leitch 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frazzie Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 I hope that's a joke. Yeah, definitely must be a joke. Is that a joke? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottW1886 Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 The club went into decline when Butcher left? Seriously? Bar Malpas, every manager since has managed the team in Europe, and we've pretty much finished top 6 in each season. Decline? Astounding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onthefringes Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 1351676364[/url]' post='365592']The club went into decline when Butcher left? Seriously? Bar Malpas, every manager since has managed the team in Europe, and we've pretty much finished top 6 in each season. Decline? Astounding. Eh? Yes, the club did go into decline, hence, Sir John of Boyle took steps to halt said decline which let the good times as you've mentioned roll no? Admitted himself, he'd taken his eye off the ball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottW1886 Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 Eh? Yes, the club did go into decline, hence, Sir John of Boyle took steps to halt said decline which let the good times as you've mentioned roll no? Admitted himself, he'd taken his eye off the ball. Misread the point - read it as the club has been in decline since he left, and is still in decline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special aka Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 Scottish football has been on the decline for what seems a very long time ............... at all levels. Why else do we have so many English Div.2 rejects plying their trade in the SPL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wellfan1984 Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 Money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy_P Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 I find it really difficult to predict what is going to happen in the medium term. Certainly at the recent Well Society meeting Derek Weir made mention about extending McCall's contract and not so long ago the manager himself was saying along the lines of if he was happy in a job then the offer of a "better" job wouldn't neccesarily hold the same appeal as it may do for others. You could ofcourse argue both are saying exactly what might be expected of them in the run run down to contract expiry. What I would say is that clarification on that as early as possible would be beneficial for all. There is a fair bit of evidence that wholesale changes to a squad can be achieved at quite short notice so the prospect of only 7 contracted players isn't perhaps the worry it might have been in the past. But I wouldn't say its the most desirable way of rebuilding a squad. In terms of the players you will never quite know what's going on - what their thinking is, what the offer from the club is, what offers from other clubs there are and what external pressures are being placed upon them, being just some of the factors involved in considering deals. There have been some I have been surprised at re-signing. I didn't imagine we would get 3 years out of Jennings for example when he took so long to re-sign after that first season. Hateley signing a 3 year deal when he was out of contract was another. So again because we might have a dozen or whatever out of contract it doesn't mean a dozen will go. But again you would want to give them so clarity as early as possible so they know what they are likely to be signing up for. From the club's perspective too they don't want to be signing up players on deals and then a new manager comes in and deems these guys handed contracts surplus to requirements. Or worse still a Simon Mensing scenario. So for me first things first as early as possible get McCall sorted and take things from there. In the short-term all I look for is a win as soon as possible to give the players some much needed confidence and lift the gloom that rolled in from the North Sea in late September and hasn't as yet buggered off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 I think some fans have started to take top 3 or 4 + Europe + Decent Cup Run for granted. Outside Celtic (to coin a phrase) the SPL is incredibly tight and with teams playing more youngsters, the results are very unpredictable. We are definitely in a trough right now. We were in one last season when people hit the panic button and then we beat Dunfermline, Hearts and Hibs in a week. Then the panic button was hit again when people were convinced Dundee Utd. would take 3rd place away from us. Like others, I think the sale of Jennings has had a big impact on our midfield and we haven't been able to adjust. However, having been through 43 seasons of watching this mob, I always start off with the ambition of finishing above relegation as some level of success! Top 6 is great, a cup final arguably better, but there will be some seasons where we are bottom 6. Longer term, we need to expand our squad by a couple of more bodies, and get some of the youngsters continued first team experience. I was always expecting this season to be somewhat transitional and potentially less successful with the smaller budget and playing personnel, but we can still make top 6 with what we have and I wouldn't see that as a failure. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asdf1234 Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 I thought that Ojamaa had improved in the match on Friday, but Higgy lost his way a bit. When we aren't humping the ball up te Higgy, then we actually play some tidy football. Sell off Daley, he can't play football, Humphrey should get one last chance but sell him off if he doesny up his game. The midfield need to come back and defend much more and not leave space behind them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haggischomper Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 I thought Derek Weir had chucked it after we voted not to let Rangers in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special aka Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 I thought Derek Weir had chucked it after we voted not to let Rangers in? I think that was his place on the SPL Board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haggischomper Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 Ah, right. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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