Criticism Of Players

[joewarkfanclub]

Any of the guys I sit with will confirm I've never rated Hateley during his time here.

 

And if I turned in as many sub-standard performances at my work I would be on the dole by now, nevermind a big nasty man saying wicked things to me. And I can assure you I'm not on £3k a week!

 

Your entitled to your opinion mate. No fanbase is ever going to see eye to eye on every player that has played for their club.

 

I think Hateley has on the whole been very good for us. Another, like Ojamaa, who never hides and continues to put in a shift even if he is having a stinker.

 

If he is on 3 grand a week which, I would doubt, Im sure we will be able to get a suitable replacement.

 

To get back to the original point, there is a big difference between venting your frustrations when things are not going well and downright bullying and unecessary abuse of players. Unfortunately Hateley, like Higdon gets way too much of the latter which is why I tend to leap to his defence.

[StipeIsGod]

I've screamed a few bits of criticism at Hately recently, out of sheer frustration.

 

Generally, it's been

 

"TAKE A FUCKING TOUCH" after he's shanked his 8th first time cross straight out the park, or something similar in criticism and reasoning.

 

Don't see the point in just screaming random abuse.

[gary_411]

Some of the abuse Hateley gets is embarrassing, quickly overtaking Higdon. People are very quick to forget how consistent he has been in a Well shirt until recent months, and shouldn't be calling for him to get to fuck, IMO. He gets a lot of stick from the folk around my seat in the Davie Cooper, and I know a lot of this stems from who his Dad is. People are on his back from the first whistle and much like Higdon they only notice the poor passes. His link up with Himphrey is, in general, very good. Most other teams in the league would like to have a full-back of his quality and I know of plenty people who praise his set-piece delivery, although it has admittedly been pish lately.

[DEWELL]

There's a reason why we're out both cups before xmas and crap at home. It's because we have several crap players. Last night when Law wasn't playing and Carswell was. . Kerr,Cummins,Hately and most times Humphrey are also cack. I know it's difficult with our budget but personally im quite happy to move a lot of this present team on. I'll get my tin hat!!!

[Finlay]

If we get beat I would need to see some serious effort etc. in order to give them even a quick 'clap' aff the park. Last night was oot my seat and out the ground on the final whistle. Course of action which is becoming increasingly frequent.

 

Never walked out of a game early, even during pumpings in Glasgow, but for some reason last night was the closest so far. I was up for sacking it at the 80th minute but was talked out of it. Glad I stayed now I suppose but still a bit scunnered with the fitba at the moment if I'm being honest.

[Special aka]

Currently the fair on offer in the SPL is as poor as I can remember top flight football in this country. We sit 3rd, not because we are any good, but because most other teams in this League are just that little teeny-weeny bit more shyte than we are.

 

I would not despair if the majority of our squad departed. We have a stack of deadwood that needs shifting ............... and this would free our Gaffer to do what he was signed-up for ---- plundering quality from the English lower leagues, (or even loan deals from EPL).

 

Personally I'd start with Giles Coke and take it from there.

[Tweed]

If we get beat I would need to see some serious effort etc. in order to give them even a quick 'clap' aff the park. Last night was oot my seat and out the ground on the final whistle. Course of action which is becoming increasingly frequent.

 

 

 

 

As gutted as I was by the result and performance last night, I don't for a second doubt their effort. They probed and tried to create the space to have a go - I personally don't think on this occasion we reacted to Aberdeen's tactics in the right way but I couldn't question their commitment. Even the ones that were brutal were giving their all.

[Finlay]

As gutted as I was by the result and performance last night, I don't for a second doubt their effort. They probed and tried to create the space to have a go - I personally don't think on this occasion we reacted to Aberdeen's tactics in the right way but I couldn't question their commitment. Even the ones that were brutal were giving their all.

 

Sure there was effort. Perhaps I mean if we played well, gave it everything, and just came up short in/were unlucky in a good game of football. For me we are getting beat in really boring games. Both teams to blame of course. Best game was County. Not 'cause they won but more to do with the fact they got their tactics wrong and actually played two up front.

 

Any manager (bar Lennon) should be playing one up front and feeling they will take a chance on the counter as we are gash at the back. After that flood their own half and stiffle us out the game.

 

Boring as hell for the supporters though if it goes to plan.

[Wellfan1984]

There's a reason why we're out both cups before xmas and crap at home. It's because we have several crap players. Last night when Law wasn't playing and Carswell was. . Kerr,Cummins,Hately and most times Humphrey are also cack. I know it's difficult with our budget but personally im quite happy to move a lot of this present team on. I'll get my tin hat!!!

 

OK we're out of the cups and shite at home because we have several crap players. Do we find new players for the away games?

[weesacs]

OK we're out of the cups and shite at home because we have several crap players. Do we find new players for the away games?

 

no its not that we have several crap players at home, its that we have several (hundred) crap fans like dewell and mjc

then we have other people who clearly dont have a clue and only want to shout abuse at certain players

[wellman]

I think my argument is slightly different. If the ball comes to Higdon at chest height, he should chest it in my opinion, but it is possible, however unlikely, that someone else might want him to head it.

 

But with Hateley, his crosses seldom beat the first man, his outswinging corners from the right are more likely to cause an opportunity for the opposition than us, and defensively he almost never blocks the cross from their left winger. And yet he is (supposedly) our highest earner, hits every set piece and seems to be the first name on the team sheet every week. It's cringeworthy.

 

 

I totaly agree with your assessment of Hatel, itys surely time for him to warm the bench for a while and give hopefuly give a trier a chance.As regards Higgy its obvious especially opposition managers that the majority of play has got to go through him, this is not his fault whlie I would not criticise his effort on Tuesday I would criticise his application.The game was crying out for someone to knock it over the top as Aberdeen were playing a very higfh line,but no evrything had to go to Higgy.After the game our manager singled out Mark Reynolds for praise but as he was the one playing directly against Higgy should he not have changed it,no that would mean a plan B .

So in conclusion as long as we are playing 80s football its going to get harder as the season goes on.,maybe freshening up the coaching staff would help asfresh input to McCall might help.

[wellman]

Your entitled to your opinion mate. No fanbase is ever going to see eye to eye on every player that has played for their club.

 

I think Hateley has on the whole been very good for us. Another, like Ojamaa, who never hides and continues to put in a shift even if he is having a stinker.

 

If he is on 3 grand a week which, I would doubt, Im sure we will be able to get a suitable replacement.

 

To get back to the original point, there is a big difference between venting your frustrations when things are not going well and downright bullying and unecessary abuse of players. Unfortunately Hateley, like Higdon gets way too much of the latter which is why I tend to leap to his defence.

 

I'm sorry I must have missed the game where Hately never hides ,if and when things go wrong down his wing you see him pointing to opposition players and telling all his team mates they should be picking them up ,this is fine for communication but it usually means he is picking no one up.

[milo]

The over the top abuse of our own players is out of order and completely counter productive. it's cringeworthy to know it goes on (but then so was booing of Reynolds Foran and Clancy when the returned with other clubs....)To be honest I rarely hear any of it where I sit. I hear nothing in fact. The opposition and ref are even safe these days.

 

That said, of the fans who are shouting pish, at least they're making the effort to get along to Fir Park. Where are all the fans who were at the Cup Final Panathanikos games?

[Al B]

The over the top abuse of our own players is out of order and completely counter productive. it's cringeworthy to know it goes on (but then so was booing of Reynolds Foran and Clancy when the returned with other clubs....)To be honest I rarely hear any of it where I sit. I hear nothing in fact. The opposition and ref are even safe these days.

 

That said, of the fans who are shouting pish, at least they're making the effort to get along to Fir Park. Where are all the fans who were at the Cup Final Panathanikos games?

 

Can - Open...Worms - Everywhere....

 

What's that got to do with anything? is there some rule that says you can't go once if you're not willing to go every week? Being a fan of a sport or a particular club is a completely different thing from being someone who attends regularly, and there are hundred reasons why someone might not be interested in actually attending football week-in week-out. It's a fairly sizeable commitment that for a number of reasons, people aren't interested in, regardless of how much of a fan of football (or Motherwell) they are.

 

I never ever go to the cinema....maybe once or twice a year, but I love films and im a fan of particular actors.

 

If my mates went to the pub every single week...I probably wouldn't bother it all the time. However if my mate from Australia was home for a couple of weeks and a night out was arranged, I'd go...whatever it took, because it's a special occasion. The people who turn up to Cup Finals and European Games for clubs like ours, aren't fairweather fans or stay away fans, they are people who aren't interested in regularly attending football for whatever reason, who are making a bit of extra effort for a special occasion, and there's fuck-all wrong with that.

[Yabba's Turd]

Pearls before swine Al

[Frazzie]

Of course you're right Al, but these people must like football.

 

There will undoubtedly be a plethora of reasons why they choose not to go- some will be out with the clubs control but some of the reasons will be well within it.

 

The matchday product at Fir Park (and I don't mean the current poor run of form) is absolutely awful, and that must be a factor in why some of these people stay away.

[El Grew]

There's absolutely nothing wrong with serious constructive criticism but ranting and raving at players is a waste of time. What you need to realise is that these guys are out there doing there absolute level best but the fact is that's as good as they are. If they were better then they'd not be plying their trade at FP.

 

That said I can understand people's frustrations. Having paid out their good hard earned for a season ticket and only seeing a couple of home wins before Christmas is always likely to get folk's mad.

[Joeboy]

I like anyone have my opinion of Motherwell players, but for the most part I find hurling abuse at the players during a game being counter productive. Last season when Higdon "done the Higdon", if it was gestured at the Motherwell support that day I would blame him at all. There was one guy in particular that day who I thought was going to burst a blood vessel, he literally was on Higdon's back the full ninety minutes, a spate of abuse any time he touched the ball and in my opinion Higdon had a good game that day.

 

If a player is having a bad day, be it through bad passing, being beaten for pace, having no luck in front of goal, the crowd getting on his back and slating him for me would only psychologically make things worse, i.e. make him more likely to miss the next chance in front of goal and criticism of that degree is just detrimental to the team.

 

I would criticise an individual player to my mates around me in the ground or in the pub afterwards, but vocally hurling abuse isn't really my style. I did temporarily lose it at Hateley against Hibs on the Friday night fixture though. He forayed up the field and after being tackled he just stood, 70 yards out of position with his hands on his hips. Compare that to Hutchy the other night, who made a mistake and lost the ball while trying to go forward, but burst his arse and recovered with a great tackle. If Hateley was worried about the Motherwell fans perception of him then perhaps he could take a leaf out of Hutchy's book in such an incident. Maybe that would help endear him to the support more.

 

For the record, I think Hateley has been a great player for us, don't rate him as a midfielder, especially in a 4-4-2, but he has been a terrific right back for us, last season particularly. But this year he seems to be not half as good and not arsed with it. All I ask from a Motherwell player is that they have the best attitude and application possible, where lack of decision making or technical ability may frustrate me, I'm human enough to see that it's not always their fault. Hateley's attitude and application have been wrong this season and as a result with every game I have less and less time for him.

[madscot]

Yep, that's me.

 

I don't think I berate anyone wildly, and any criticism I do vocalise isn't a pre-planned attempt to improve things. It's a build-up of frustration, a let off of some steam. Football is a mans game and that applies as much to accepting criticism when it's due as much as it does to getting a hard challenge put in on you on the park.

 

I sat in the east one game last season (cooper season ticket holder) for a cup game and if it was the same group of guys I suspect it was the level of abuse the players got was rancid from start to finish . Would never sit there again,the level of abuse was utter atrocious .

[joewarkfanclub]

I'm sorry I must have missed the game where Hately never hides ,if and when things go wrong down his wing you see him pointing to opposition players and telling all his team mates they should be picking them up ,this is fine for communication but it usually means he is picking no one up.

 

By hiding, I meant going into his shell and not wanting the ball.

[Frazzie]

Well you're wrong then madscot. Simple as that really. We have never given rancid or atrocious abuse from start to finish at any game ever. Occasionally losing the plot, aye, but generally good-natured banter between ourselves in our group. You'd think we were a bunch of foam-at-the-mouth maniacs from reading your description!

[pingu]

Well you're wrong then madscot. Simple as that really. We have never given rancid or atrocious abuse from start to finish at any game ever. Occasionally losing the plot, aye, but generally good-natured banter between ourselves in our group. You'd think we were a bunch of foam-at-the-mouth maniacs from reading your description!

 

now knowing who frazzle's group are I'd back this up. Heard more sensible comments coming from there than most other places at FP. The problem are not younger guys like them, its your 40+ bitter and twisted frustrated fat guys who are found all over fir park, that are the issue.

 

 

 

[Al B]

Of course you're right Al, but these people must like football.

 

There will undoubtedly be a plethora of reasons why they choose not to go- some will be out with the clubs control but some of the reasons will be well within it.

 

The matchday product at Fir Park (and I don't mean the current poor run of form) is absolutely awful, and that must be a factor in why some of these people stay away.

 

I completely agree, but as far as those who fall into that category you mention at the end, I reckon you're looking at possibly 1000 people, tops. Wouldn't even touch the potential 10,000 or so extra that may come to a cup final.

[SteelmaninOZ]

I like anyone have my opinion of Motherwell players, but for the most part I find hurling abuse at the players during a game being counter productive. Last season when Higdon "done the Higdon", if it was gestured at the Motherwell support that day I would blame him at all. There was one guy in particular that day who I thought was going to burst a blood vessel, he literally was on Higdon's back the full ninety minutes, a spate of abuse any time he touched the ball and in my opinion Higdon had a good game that day.

 

If a player is having a bad day, be it through bad passing, being beaten for pace, having no luck in front of goal, the crowd getting on his back and slating him for me would only psychologically make things worse, i.e. make him more likely to miss the next chance in front of goal and criticism of that degree is just detrimental to the team.

 

I would criticise an individual player to my mates around me in the ground or in the pub afterwards, but vocally hurling abuse isn't really my style. I did temporarily lose it at Hateley against Hibs on the Friday night fixture though. He forayed up the field and after being tackled he just stood, 70 yards out of position with his hands on his hips. Compare that to Hutchy the other night, who made a mistake and lost the ball while trying to go forward, but burst his arse and recovered with a great tackle. If Hateley was worried about the Motherwell fans perception of him then perhaps he could take a leaf out of Hutchy's book in such an incident. Maybe that would help endear him to the support more.

 

For the record, I think Hateley has been a great player for us, don't rate him as a midfielder, especially in a 4-4-2, but he has been a terrific right back for us, last season particularly. But this year he seems to be not half as good and not arsed with it. All I ask from a Motherwell player is that they have the best attitude and application possible, where lack of decision making or technical ability may frustrate me, I'm human enough to see that it's not always their fault. Hateley's attitude and application have been wrong this season and as a result with every game I have less and less time for him.

 

Good post there Joeboy

[madscot]

Well you're wrong then madscot. Simple as that really. We have never given rancid or atrocious abuse from start to finish at any game ever. Occasionally losing the plot, aye, but generally good-natured banter between ourselves in our group. You'd think we were a bunch of foam-at-the-mouth maniacs from reading your description!

 

I didnt say it was your group of friends .I only sat there one game so maybe it was another group ?Still wouldnt sit there again tho .Lower levels of abuse in the cooper .