nethertonwellfan Posted December 12, 2012 Report Share Posted December 12, 2012 No you're missing my point entirely. In Butcher's time we had some right exciting games and two memorable cup runs. We had a raw side which you just never knew what was going to happen next with, ie. 6-1 v. Hearts, Fitzpatrick's late winner, Skippy Sunday. We've had nothing in recent times that has come anywhere near matching that and under McCall have become predictable on the whole, except for always falling short in so called big games. I watch football for the enjoyment and excitement, not for predictability and disappointment. See I was quite excited by finishing third last season and breaking our points total along the way. I was also excited with the cup run in 2011. We might have been shite in the final but hey we still got there. I was excited a couple of weeks ago when we skelped Caley Thistle 5-1 which could have been about 9. I was excited with some of the football we played on Saturday and in particular the goals. I'd rather a consistent high placed finish in the league over mid table mediocrity any day of the week. I don't know how you can see 3rd place as disappointment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewarkfanclub Posted December 12, 2012 Report Share Posted December 12, 2012 Did nobody hear Stuart McCall on the radio last night. Very open, very honest and sounded gutted and exasperated at being out of the cup again. However, he thereafter turned it around by saying that normally he would accept top six and a cup run as success for a club our size, but now we are out of the cup he was throwing down a challenge to the players to finish top 3. The guy isnt perfect, but he is not stupid and I wouldnt swap him for any other manager in the SPL. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weesacs Posted December 12, 2012 Report Share Posted December 12, 2012 when half the squad fuck off in the summer we will have a decent bit of money available in wages even if the budget is cut. it has to be spent wisely. totally agree it needs to be spent wisely - other teams with smaller budgets than ours have picked up a couple of gems - even though they are few and far between but what keeps sticking in my mind is when we went for someone in the summer and were outbidded (in wages) by a team in League 2 or the Conference - so that's what we are up against, i just don't think it will be easy to get these decent players in on twitter last night, it mentioned that Bradford v Arsenal on average wage terms was £747 v £59000 - now I dont know what our average wage is, but it cant be that much higher than £750 - so that must be the level that we are looking at? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joeboy Posted December 12, 2012 Report Share Posted December 12, 2012 By MJC's logic you could say the same about the Craig Brown era. By estimations, under Craig Brown, we earned 3 points after going behind. 6-6 v. Hibs (May 2010) 3-3 v. Rangers (May 2010) 1-1 v. St. Mirren (November 2010) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldonmac Posted December 12, 2012 Report Share Posted December 12, 2012 Unless there is a sudden sutained increase in our gates, or a fairer distribution of money in the SPL, then there will be no additional funds to use on purchasing players and that will be no different from the vast majority of SPL clubs. Even if there is a "saleable" asset the days of £1M+ deals are gone. We've been down the "throw money at big names" route and we're lucky still to be here. As weesacs pointed out we will be up against League 2 and Conference Leagues trying to get players and depending on their personal circumstances they might not want to uproot their families and move. I can see a year (or possibly more) of pain whilst we "blood" youngsters with perhaps the odd journeyman to provide experience and in one way that might benefit us in the longer term. McCall is on a hiding to nothing, the team he puts out is basically our strongest 11 with nobody on the bench that offers anything to change a match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJC_MKI Posted December 12, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 12, 2012 So the whole of last season was down to luck and the players and not one single element of the success of last season was anything to do with the Manager? Do you know how fucking stupid that sounds? On the whole, yes, in my opinion. Yes we played poor, but look at it this way. Arsenal got knocked out by Bradford and never managed a shot on goal until the 70th minute. Thats football... Any team can lose any game to anyone, especially in Cup football. However, we fail to perform in Cup game/big games time and time and time again and that's my gripe. We never learn any lessons, from the dire showing at Hampden in May 2011, to the Aberdeen Quarter Final last season and then to our feeble efforts in Europe this season and then the utterly pathetic and embarrassing showing at Ibrox in September, and finally to last night's debacle. And there have been many more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well 4 Europe Posted December 12, 2012 Report Share Posted December 12, 2012 Jimmy Calderwood? What could Jimmy Calderwood bring to the role McCall couldn't, I'd love to hear your thoughts on this MJC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJC_MKI Posted December 12, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 12, 2012 Jimmy Calderwood? What could Jimmy Calderwood bring to the role McCall couldn't, I'd love to hear your thoughts on this MJC. Tactics? Motivation? Maybe better success at picking up a few decent bargains here and there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
postiejim Posted December 12, 2012 Report Share Posted December 12, 2012 Some arsehole(can't remember who) posted a similar topiic last year and got dogs abuse for wanting McCall sacked. Get McCall ,Black and Johansson tae fuck is the best thing I've read on here for yonks. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andalg Posted December 12, 2012 Report Share Posted December 12, 2012 Does anybody else remember standing on the terraces at Fir Park in the late 80's chanting "McLean must go " when we were getting beat by teams like Clydebank. But a couple of years later we had one of the greatest days in the clubs history at Hampden and now we think our manager isnt good enough when we are in the top three in the league and been in the Champions league ! There are many things I dont like about the way McCall manages Motherwell but how the hell can we expect a new manager to come and improve on his record ! I think in the present climate we could be doing a lot worse so be careful what you wish for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Stall Posted December 12, 2012 Report Share Posted December 12, 2012 ^ Aye, but that same arsehole had told us all Randolph had a pre-contract at Leeds and was off in Jan 2012. Basically the arsehole had as much credibility as MJC! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nethertonwellfan Posted December 12, 2012 Report Share Posted December 12, 2012 On the whole, yes, in my opinion. Any team can lose any game to anyone, especially in Cup football. However, we fail to perform in Cup game/big games time and time and time again and that's my gripe. We never learn any lessons, from the dire showing at Hampden in May 2011, to the Aberdeen Quarter Final last season and then to our feeble efforts in Europe this season and then the utterly pathetic and embarrassing showing at Ibrox in September, and finally to last night's debacle. And there have been many more. We've actually won big games under McCall you know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nethertonwellfan Posted December 12, 2012 Report Share Posted December 12, 2012 ^ Aye, but that same arsehole had told us all Randolph had a pre-contract at Leeds and was off in Jan 2012. Basically the arsehole had as much credibility as MJC! I think the same guy apoligised and admitted he was talking bullshit too did he not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Stall Posted December 12, 2012 Report Share Posted December 12, 2012 I think the same guy apoligised and admitted he was talking bullshit too did he not? Then theres hope for MJC yet............... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJC_MKI Posted December 12, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 12, 2012 We've actually won big games under McCall you know. Yes I know, the Dundee Utd Cup replay and the St.Johnstone Semi Final and possibly the 2-0 win over Celtic in 2011. But apart from those three, our record in big games is awful. Like I say, for those three triumphs, I raise you, the 2011 Cup Final, ANY game other than February 2011 against Celtic or Oldco Rangers in the SPL, last season's Quarter Final, last night, Europe this year when were like rabbits caught in headlights or the worst one of them all IMO, the League Cup fiasco against Newco Rangers at Ibrox this season, which summed up everything that is wrong with our approach to games like these. We looked terrified of them from the off, and why? They weren't that great, as Inverness proved when they thumped them 3-0 a couple of weeks later. We just do not have the right mentality or mindset for 'big games' and alot of that is down to the manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GazzyB Posted December 12, 2012 Report Share Posted December 12, 2012 we had one of the greatest gays in the clubs history 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
postiejim Posted December 12, 2012 Report Share Posted December 12, 2012 The Randolph story was from a reliable person who posts frequently on here. Honest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welldaft Mk1 Posted December 12, 2012 Report Share Posted December 12, 2012 Let's be brutally honest it is NOT even a debate worth entering into. Anyone who thinks McCall has done a poor job in the last year and a half with the resources he has - needs their head examined and locked away for the safety of the general public. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
well-army Posted December 12, 2012 Report Share Posted December 12, 2012 Let's be brutally honest it is NOT even a debate worth entering into. Anyone who thinks McCall has done a poor job in the last year and a half with the resources he has - needs their head examined and locked away for the safety of the general public. ^^ 110% agree ^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nethertonwellfan Posted December 12, 2012 Report Share Posted December 12, 2012 Yes I know, the Dundee Utd Cup replay and the St.Johnstone Semi Final and possibly the 2-0 win over Celtic in 2011. But apart from those three, our record in big games is awful. Like I say, for those three triumphs, I raise you, the 2011 Cup Final, ANY game other than February 2011 against Celtic or Oldco Rangers in the SPL, last season's Quarter Final, last night, Europe this year when were like rabbits caught in headlights or the worst one of them all IMO, the League Cup fiasco against Newco Rangers at Ibrox this season, which summed up everything that is wrong with our approach to games like these. We looked terrified of them from the off, and why? They weren't that great, as Inverness proved when they thumped them 3-0 a couple of weeks later. We just do not have the right mentality or mindset for 'big games' and alot of that is down to the manager. Our record against Celtic or Rangers wasn't that much better under other managers. Don't forget we haven't beat Rangers since 2001 so I actually put that down to the PLAYERS as well as the manager. I agree we looked terrified earler in the season against Rangers but remember guys like Hammell and Lasley have lost more games against Rangers than Stuart McCall so I would also put some responsibilty at their door. We lost big games under McGhee, for example, Nancy and numerous cup games that I can't be bothered listing. We lost big games under Brown, again Cup games and Odense. See the thing you fail to realise MJC is that we are Motherwell FC. We haven't won a Cup for 21 years and it will be at least 22 so that tells me that every manager we have had since then has lost big games. We will win some and we will lose some so this thread is nothing more than an overreaction. You're calling for the head of a manager who only 7 months ago led us to our highest points total ever in the SPL. I'm sorry but you don't get 62 points exclusively by being lucky. Aye we probably rode our luck at times but not all [62 points were down to luck. You just sound like someone who doesn't like the guy so refuse to give him any credit whatsoever. Sacking a manger who is 3rd in the league (one point from second) months after leading us to a record points total and 19 months after leading us to a Scottish Cup final is madness. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Stall Posted December 12, 2012 Report Share Posted December 12, 2012 We just do not have the right mentality or mindset for 'big games' and alot of that is down to the manager. You could be right, but this mindset problem is not only limited to the players, some of our fans have it as well..... Therefore we will not win on Wednesday, when the home side will be absolutely desperate to win to get their season back on track after losing to QoS last week and when their supporters will be spitting blood to get the better of an SPL side. They will be up for it, but will our players raise our game enough to rise to the challenge? I doubt it. I don't know what the scoreline will be, but I do know this. Motherwell will lose to 'Rangers' on Wednesday, one way or another and it will be a sore one to take regardless of how it happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well 4 Europe Posted December 12, 2012 Report Share Posted December 12, 2012 Tactics? Motivation? Maybe better success at picking up a few decent bargains here and there? Calderwood's 'tactics' were often called into question by Aberdeen fans, he was also seen as negative in his time there. As manager his Aberdeen team crashed out of the Scottish cup at home to 1st division Dunfermline, papped 4-3 in a Scottish Cup semi against 1st division Queen of the South, out the League Cup at the first attempt to 3rd division amateur side Queens Park to name but a few occasions where he failed to motivate his team in big games. They also got pumped 4-1 in a CIS cup semi against United under his stewardship as well. Few decent bargains like Dave Bus? Tommy Wright? Stuart Duff? and other random shite. He spunked a fair amount of money at Aberdeen including half a million pounds on Barry Nicholson & Stevie Lovell. What did he have to show for it? One good run in the UEFA cup where they fluked their way through winning only one game in the process and some top six finishes. They only finished best of the rest once and failed to make a single cup final. Replacing McCall with Calderwood is a laughable suggestion. The guy left Kilmarnock because ''I couldn't fulfil my ambitions under those financial limitations''. Fuck knows what he'd think of having our budget. McCall shoudn't be sacked because he's done a good job on the whole, I doubt any manager we could afford could have achieved more with the limitations he's had placed on him. And the day he does leave be that sooner or later I'd much rather the club went down the same route we went down with McCall/Gannon than appointing someone like Jimmy Calderwood. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andalg Posted December 12, 2012 Report Share Posted December 12, 2012 Well spotted nice to know someone bothered to read it ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbcmfc Posted December 12, 2012 Report Share Posted December 12, 2012 The unfortunate thing is, the "big games" come against big teams with resources that reflect that. "Big games" against teams at our own level we have about a 50/50 record. Levante are about 5th in la liga, behind Barcelona, Real Madrid and Europa league and super cup winners atletico Madrid. Panathinaikos, old rangers and celtic all have resources 10 times and more what we have, any result against a team like that is a freak result, a real upset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJC_MKI Posted December 12, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 12, 2012 Aberdeen, Hearts, Hibs & Dundee Utd have double our resources, but we manage to get results against them in run of the mill games. Take Aberdeen for example. They are a far bigger club than we are with a support which dwarfs our own and far greater resources at their disposal. Yet they haven't beaten us in the SPL since 2008, which is quite an incredible statistic. However, in arguably the two biggest encounters in that time we have failed to turn up and they have got the better of us. Why is that then? Could we not handle the pressure with a Semi Final at stake last year and a very winnable 5th Round tie this season? Who knows, but I wouldn't be atall surprised if we beat Aberdeen in the league on Boxing Day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts