Wellfan1984 Posted January 28, 2013 Report Share Posted January 28, 2013 The club have already approved the plan moving forward If the SFL Clubs accept it, then its only a paper exercise for it to happen Looks like the fans of SPL clubs who are opposed to the proposal will again have to rely on SFL clubs to oppose it, and then our clubs can again backtrack and make out they listened to fans I can see no way that the Part-Time Clubs will ever pass a 12-12-18 team league that will see them with almost no chance of advancement, as there will always be at least one, maybe two Full Time clubs in the 18 team league, especially if it is going to be a 1 up, 1 down system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well Well Posted January 28, 2013 Report Share Posted January 28, 2013 Practically every sports news segmet is carrying this story as "SPL clubs unanimously agree to 12-12-18 structure" and not all of them are "dubious". I post emotional posts when required and I see this as a required time. Only the start of my post I take back, the rest still stands whether the club are consulting us or not because it states my view on the matter. This is time for views to be expressed so I have not jumped the gun except for the start of my post. I feel your pain mate, I really do. Yes you can express a 'general view' but no one other than the club has any idea why they favour this system, so any views made prior to the club consultation is just conjecture and add to the dubious views already supplied by most of the media. So wait and see what they have to say and If you don't like it, then stand up and make your views known but you cannot make any judgement on how the club should be run on emotions mate that is the road to disaster for this club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nethertonwellfan Posted January 28, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2013 NWF, If your information source was only radio clyde then you should have checked the facts with another source or at least started your 1st post stating that instead of going off on one. As the meeting was only this morning we really needed to give the club time to release a statement before setting off to FP with pitchforks and torches. It wasn't only Radio Clyde. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special aka Posted January 28, 2013 Report Share Posted January 28, 2013 "Clyde 1" .................. there's your mistake mate. Think we all have to be careful about reacting, thru no fault of our own, to miss-information. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted January 28, 2013 Report Share Posted January 28, 2013 Doncaster briefed the press and made a statememt that all clubs supported the proposal. If MFC are undecided they should have told Doncaster - who is their employee - to make that clear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted January 28, 2013 Report Share Posted January 28, 2013 Doncaster briefed the press and made a statememt that all clubs supported the proposal. If MFC are undecided they should have told Doncaster - who is their employee - to make that clear. What he said was "The SPL clubs have been clear today that they, in principle back this being taken to the next stage." "in principle back this being taken to the next stage" isn't even the same as "in practice back this being taken to the next stage" and implies a number of potential caveats and/or conditions. It is a long way from "all clubs support the proposal". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NottsMFC Posted January 28, 2013 Report Share Posted January 28, 2013 "It is now our intention to share what we heard today with our supporters so we can have the same discussion and outline why it is our view this is the best option for the game at this time".Think it's clear from the above quote that the board are far from undecided but at least they are planning to make their reasoning known to supporters.Will be interesting to hear the details behind why they have taken this view. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewarkfanclub Posted January 28, 2013 Report Share Posted January 28, 2013 Its the usual Doomcaster misinformation trying to railroad through what he perceives to be in the best interests of Scottish football (or at the very least his CV). If the fans dont want this we have the power to make sure we dont get it, just as we did with Rangers situation. Nothing motivates the board of a football club more than the sound of feet heading for the exits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fat_tony Posted January 28, 2013 Report Share Posted January 28, 2013 My take on the club's statement, and the letter to Well Society members is that the club's executives believe that the proposals they heard today are in the best interests of the club, and have said as much to Doncaster et al. However, I think it has been made perfectly clear that these proposals, and the reasons Dempster and Weir agree with them provisionally, will be outlined to the Well Society and discussed, and no final decision will be made without a vote being put to the society. I don't really see what else they could be expected to do. As usual, the media in this country have greatly exaggerated this as a done deal, in order to whip up a frenzy and get some publicity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swello Posted January 28, 2013 Report Share Posted January 28, 2013 What he said was "The SPL clubs have been clear today that they, in principle back this being taken to the next stage." "in principle back this being taken to the next stage" isn't even the same as "in practice back this being taken to the next stage" and implies a number of potential caveats and/or conditions. It is a long way from "all clubs support the proposal". The club have known about the proposed 12-12-18 set up for a long time before today - it's been a topic of conversation for weeks already, even if some of the fine details aren't known publicly. In the spirit in which they apparently agreed to it today, I see no reason why they couldn't have consulted the support to ascertain whether or not we support the basics of the proposal in principle before they did likewise - and if need be, come back with specifics later - a meaningful dialogue in other words. To "consult" for the first time after the fact and with the Board's position clearly already established feels like a PR exercise to me unfortunately. I'm not normally negative towards the club in this way - but as a Season Ticket holder (and a 'Society member) it feels like we are getting railroaded into a frankly ridiculous league system that introduces yet more uncertainty into the fixture list at a time where fixture re-arrangements are already at an all-time high. I've had my 'ticket for the past 25 years without a gap - but this 8-8-8 stuff will probably turn me into a pay at the gate punter, which was pretty unthinkable before now. This isn't a "ah'll no be back" toys out the pram job as I'll still go, it's just that the level of uncertainty about who we'll be playing, when and where will make it better sense for me not to commit up front. I don't doubt that the people running the club have it's best interest at heart, I know it's early days for the 'Well Society and I don't expect a consultation on every decision - but something that affects all fans as this does should have been a no-brainer and should have been consulted on weeks ago. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juan Kerse Posted January 28, 2013 Report Share Posted January 28, 2013 The problem with 12-12-18 is that in reality nothing really changes. (eh MJ...?!) We will play Hibs, Killie, Hearts, Inverness etc 4 times a season if we are all in the top 8 leading to the same boredom problems as now not to mention everyone STILL having to play Celtic (and eventually The Rangers) 4 times meaning no competition at the top as potential title challengers all drop points to them too often while cutting each others throats every week too! So the 'New' league system creates boredom and lack of competition... Seriously is everyone that thinks this is the way forward on glue? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
decorator Posted January 28, 2013 Report Share Posted January 28, 2013 If we have agreed to 8-8-8 i won't be getting a season ticket unless they restructure the package to reflect the uncertainty in the fixture list. At the moment it looks like the well society has been set up to fund dempster, wilson etc running the club without putting in their own money rather than democratising the club. We need to hear from the society board on this. The society board needs to assert the interest of the members. dubia trips are no cheap Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tweed Posted January 28, 2013 Report Share Posted January 28, 2013 . I don't doubt that the people running the club have it's best interest at heart, I know it's early days for the 'Well Society and I don't expect a consultation on every decision - but something that affects all fans as this does should have been a no-brainer and should have been consulted on weeks ago. Personally I find it hard to criticise the fans consulatation's timing when we don't know the content of the meeting; we don't know when Dempster and Weir actually decided that in principal this was a good idea, it may only have been today for all we know. And they may not have had the information to have a meaningful meeting until today. However I do object that we are expected to drop everything for a fans meeting this week. As much as I wish my life was simple enough that Motherwell FC could summon me to a Well Society meeting at the drop of the hat, the fact is it isn't and if they come out tomorrow and say Thursday night be at Fir Park it is a bit of stretch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lobey_Dosser Posted January 28, 2013 Report Share Posted January 28, 2013 SPL clubs will do their utmost to push this through. Can't see the lower SFL clubs letting it happen though. My main gripe is that in order to get a fairer distribution iof cash under one body, a new wacky league structure has to be voted through. All or nothing! Why can't we merge the SPL and SFL and then look at league reconstruction a year down the line? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welldaft Mk1 Posted January 28, 2013 Report Share Posted January 28, 2013 I think it is a case of damned if you do damned if you don't with any reconstruction. I am far from sold on the new proposals and I am not clear exactly what they contain. I am all in favour of more excitement and any chance of winning the league (albeit slim) would be more realistic in a mini league. That said if all teams go to zero points in 3 leagues of 8 it just seems preposterous. One thing is for sure a move to a larger league be it 16 or 18 would just not work. You would have even more meaningless games and lower crowds. You are as well leaving it to a top league of 12 and introducing play offs for relegation and even euro places. Keeping everyone happy is never going to happen. As for the Well Society of which I am a member. We do not own the club - yet. The target for that to happen was circa £1.5m for over 50% of the shares. As I understand it we raised near enough 400k - which begs the question whether we will ever get near to that total in order for majority ownership to become reality. Not that I am overly bothered. It was well marketed and I felt as did many others that we could help the club with access to funds in times of cash flow problems and in the absence of a sugar daddy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLip69 Posted January 28, 2013 Report Share Posted January 28, 2013 There was no formal vote today however as a club, we indicated our support to the SPL Executive to progress discussions with the SFL. It is now our .intention to share what we heard today with our supporters so we can have the same discussion and outline why it is our view this is the best option for the game at this time This is what the club statement said. From that I take it the club have given their backing to the proposals and will tell the Well Society why. It's done and dusted if anyone on here thinks the Well Society is going to make any difference to how the club will vote they're probably still writing letters to Santa. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nethertonwellfan Posted January 28, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2013 There was no formal vote today however as a club, we indicated our support to the SPL Executive to progress discussions with the SFL. It is now our .intention to share what we heard today with our supporters so we can have the same discussion and outline why it is our view this is the best option for the game at this time This is what the club statement said. From that I take it the club have given their backing to the proposals and will tell the Well Society why. It's done and dusted if anyone on here thinks the Well Society is going to make any difference to how the club will vote they're probably still writing letters to Santa. I pretty much agree with all of this. The clubs made up their minds today no doubt about it. I suspect Neil Doncaster has been briefing the media all day despite his ambiguous statements on the record. Every single news outlet and newspapers are reporting that this is a done deal. As LIP says the board will be telling the fans why. I just hope the SFL clubs have balls and kick this in to the long grass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted January 28, 2013 Report Share Posted January 28, 2013 Every single news outlet and newspapers are reporting that this is a done deal. Aye, the same news outlets told us that Sevco would definitely be in the SPL and then, later, that they had a deal to be in the First Division. Far too easy to jump to conclusions, especially based on Doncaster's ramblings. Wouldn't be the first time he had jumped the gun. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brazilian Posted January 28, 2013 Report Share Posted January 28, 2013 I pretty much agree with all of this. The clubs made up their minds today no doubt about it. I suspect Neil Doncaster has been briefing the media all day despite his ambiguous statements on the record. Every single news outlet and newspapers are reporting that this is a done deal. As LIP says the board will be telling the fans why. I just hope the SFL clubs have balls and kick this in to the long grass. I suspect there is already an amendment available, to get them to agree sad that the results of all the fans surveys and lip service given to whats important in the game has been cast aside and they all have choosen to back a plan that does not improve the overall standing of Scottish football clubs or indeed even improve the major flaw of over repetitive fixtures on the SPL calendar and poor scheduling and match pricing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmacd1 Posted January 28, 2013 Report Share Posted January 28, 2013 All we can hope for is that if the Society overwhelmingly dont want this change, then the club carry the wishes back to the voting table. Personally I have my doubts about this. I don't like the changes. I am a firm believer that the changes required are not so drastic. The way I see it is fans are being kept away through 3 reasons. 1. Cost of getting into games 2. Boredom 3. Lack of competition Not everyone will ever be happy, but for me leagues could be left as they are. 2 up and 2 down with a play off for potentially 3 up 3 down. Means we get to see some different teams every year and for teams that go down there is a realistic chance of coming up sometime soon. Obviously cash has to be spread more evenly. On those points this doesnt require some mental system. From the aspect of gate pricing the whole game needs to look at various ways in which prices can come down for a sustained period to try and get people through the gates again as a habit. Without this the game is finished. If the mental system does come in, then like someone else said earlier I wont throw my toys out the pram, saying I wont be back, but I will pick the odd game here and there. Not paying SPL prices to see 1st Div football Im afraid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Stall Posted January 28, 2013 Report Share Posted January 28, 2013 There was no formal vote today however as a club, we indicated our support to the SPL Executive to progress discussions with the SFL. It is now our .intention to share what we heard today with our supporters so we can have the same discussion and outline why it is our view this is the best option for the game at this time This is what the club statement said. From that I take it the club have given their backing to the proposals and will tell the Well Society why. It's done and dusted if anyone on here thinks the Well Society is going to make any difference to how the club will vote they're probably still writing letters to Santa. As usual you are letting your blind hatred for the current custodians run away with you. Back in the summer it was obvious the club didnt want to vote Rangers out, yet the 'well society told them which way to go. I have yet to see anything to suggest this situation will be any different. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nethertonwellfan Posted January 28, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2013 Aye, the same news outlets told us that Sevco would definitely be in the SPL and then, later, that they had a deal to be in the First Division. Far too easy to jump to conclusions, especially based on Doncaster's ramblings. Wouldn't be the first time he had jumped the gun. The news outlets have also told us stories that are fact too, it's all to easy to dig up examples of when they made an arse of it. I suspect the same man was responsible for briefing the press that time too. If I'm wrong and a decision hasn't been made then the clubs should be having a serious word with Mr Doncaster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnstone Posted January 28, 2013 Report Share Posted January 28, 2013 I can't wait until they put through the new mega league. Then I heard next season it's multi ball and kilo bags of nuts for all fans. Hell yeah! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted January 29, 2013 Report Share Posted January 29, 2013 The news outlets have also told us stories that are fact too, it's all to easy to dig up examples of when they made an arse of it. I suspect the same man was responsible for briefing the press that time too. If I'm wrong and a decision hasn't been made then the clubs should be having a serious word with Mr Doncaster. I sound like I'm defending everybody, but I'm really not. I have just worked with various businesses for long enough to parse the exact words of press releases. I have become familiar with executives' BS over the years and the coded messages they send. In this particular instance, Doncaster never said that the clubs had voted for it or even approved it. All he has said is "they, in principle back this being taken to the next stage". In my experience, "in principle" are weasel words for no agreement on any details has been reached. We also don't know how many stages there are. For all we know they have agreed on 3 or 4 of the 6 issues up for debate and 2 are still wide open. That is why we need to hear the cold, hard facts from the club and not some media spin from the guy who is trying to hold onto his job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ya Bezzer! Posted January 29, 2013 Report Share Posted January 29, 2013 The problem with this is it will have an appeal to at least a chunk of the Scottish League clubs due to the fact that they will get more money and more opportunities for promotion to the top tier. It's been quite clear for a while that it's been the SPL's strategy to detach the bigger clubs in the SFL away from the minnows. With this scheme they might well get their way. Clubs like Dunfermline or Partick Thistle are in no position to vote in any other way than self interest due to the dire financial position most First Division clubs are in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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