To The Board At Motherwell Football Club

[Steve Diggle]

Lets run this through the translator.

 

OK, go

 

"shut the fuck up you unenlightened bunch"

 

"Oh, and can you keep coming to the games - no matter what"

[sbcmfc]

Doesnt really answer the question of why celtics money was untouched....

 

I understand it was going to be better for 10/11 teams, so for the greater good, but doesn't answer the real question about doing something better for 11/12 teams.

[bladesman]

1363285641[/url]' post='376708']

Doesnt really answer the question of why celtics money was untouched....

 

I understand it was going to be better for 10/11 teams, so for the greater good, but doesn't answer the real question about doing something better for 11/12 teams.

 

Yep, I noticed that they tootled round that issue, and I have to say, I don't remember anything being advertised or mention in our esteemed press anything about an agreement over prize money in October. I smell shyte....

 

[sbcmfc]

Yep, I noticed that they tootled round that issue, and I have to say, I don't remember anything being advertised or mention in our esteemed press anything about an agreement over prize money in October. I smell shyte....

 

Certainly wasnt headline news anywhere I looked! Maybe Charles green opened his mouth and let his belly rumble that day, or samaras cracked a smile or something equally as newsworthy?

[Martin]

People have been discussing the big prize for second since October, even in papers I'm sure

[ONeils40yarder]

The one fucking year where we could have potentially got a big pot of cash (usually reserved for Cheeks 1 and 2) and we turn all socialist. I can understand pish teams like Hearts, Aberdeen and Kilmarnock being all for a change this season but we should have always had ambitions to finish 2nd this year.

[Gaag]

Ballsed that up Andy!

 

Anyway:

 

Motherwell FC Official wrote.....

Keith, the club is never too busy to communicate with supporters, there are different times and different forums for this, however, let's take the three issues you've highlighted.

 

Reconstruction – the current state of affairs is that we have met with the members of the 'Well Society.The general debate and outcomes from that day were largely covered in a members update and emailed to 'Well Society members. It is also fair to say that the discussions from that day were also covered in this forum.We said at that meeting that, although we did not like all of the reconstruction proposal, there was more to like than not and we felt that it was a better solution for our club moving forward over the next few years.

 

Some at the meeting had a different perspective however we communicated the issues and gave the group all the information we had at that point. We took a vote at the end of that meeting to see if the mood had changed and, by in large, it had.On the 15th April 2013 (SPL reconstruction voting day) there will be two options for us to vote on for our club. These are either to try a new set up as proposed or to remain the same.There are no current options for 14 or 16, these are not on the table and are unlikely to be on the table for the foreseeable future.Irrespective of what we want as a club, we can only vote on what the majority have put forward.

 

We have spoken to 'Well Society members, heard their positions and comments but we want and understand the need to address the entire support on this matter so, as already highlighted after the 'Well Society meeting, there will be a supporter meeting organised before we are required to vote on this change. You or anyone else can ask any questions you like at this meeting and we won't dodge the answer; to be fair to the board, I don't think we ever do but others may think differently. We will post soon to advise when the meeting is planned.

 

Your second point - Colt Teams - came out of left field on Monday, has been off the agenda for months and months and we see no reason for that to change.

 

Your last point - Prize Money - this was a proposal that was put to clubs in October. At the time, all eleven clubs decided to support this one season only solution.This was agreed mostly as a starting point to change; it felt like the right thing to do at the time, all clubs would benefit from a small additional prize fund and, importantly, we'd revisit the full distribution, voting etc in due course. It is interesting that this has come up now given it was voted on, agreed and publicised throughout the press at the time.Happy to be more specific at the meeting on any point you or anyone elsewishes

to bring up.

 

The 'Well Society is your way of taking control of these choices, overtime any board of any organisation has to make tough choices. Ideally supporters can make these choices in due course once the Society has a controlling shareholding.It is down to the will and the want of Motherwell supporters when this happens, the board are not stopping this from happening in any way but until it does, we are tasked with doing what we feel is best for the long term future of the club.

[Gaag]

Thanks for your reply Leeann/Alan/Whomever else had input.

 

I will in turn reply to you point by point.

 

Prize money

I appreciate that the club has an open door policy and has always been very good at responding promptly to individual requests and emails (certainly in my case anyway) – however the argument can certainly be made that in instances such as this; sometimes any reply is better than none – even just to say “we’re considering the points made and will make a further statement in due course”. The fact that you replied to me is great, and I appreciate that – but there is still no statement on the club website – the official outlet for your news – surrounding reconstruction updates, colt teams or prize money in recent times. You need to have your finger on the pulse of fan sentiment more.

 

Anyone who knows anything about Scottish football knows that it is reported in the media in a way that spends no particular time or effort on those teams or issues that do not impact the largest teams in the league. So surely it must come as absolutely no surprise to you that the issue of prize money is a bone of contention now. At the time it was “widely” publicised and reported, it was certainly never made clear to me, nor many of the fans on this site, that the team that finished 1st in the SPL retained the same % of prize money as the year before and 2nd lost a significant proportion. Never mind 3rd remaining the same and everyone else gaining 0.5% - that’s not the issue here. It was “publicised” as Celtic making a grand sacrifice to ensure the survival of the other SPL teams. Please excuse my language, but what total bullshit. I’m sure you had your reasons for voting this through – but why not explain it to your fans at the time; considering you must surely have known this would happen.

 

Which leads me onto my next point.

 

Why did you think it right to support this one season only solution? I, as a Motherwell fan, don’t concern myself with other clubs finances, but I care about the club you run for us. A starting point for change? Why not just force change instead of starting it? What are you so scared of? Were you that convinced that we wouldn’t finish 2nd or 3rd this year that you didn’t want to keep it as was? Or, perhaps more to the point, what did Celtic threaten you all with if you didn’t agree to this?

 

How do clubs benefit from a small additional prize fund? If Motherwell finishes second, they aren’t benefitting? They may stand to earn a small fortune less than what they could previously have finished with in that position. How is 3rd place benefitting from this? What is the prize money for finishing 3rd this year, compared to last year?

 

In my view this is interesting that it’s come up now because we feel as though we’ve had the wool pulled over our eyes by the SPL and the Scottish game. And the only reason we are having this backlash is because it wasn’t communicated properly.

 

RE: Colt teams: I’m glad for that very simple response – hopefully it’ll be recognised as the power grab it is and get booted into touch by the SFL member clubs and in turn, the rest of the Scottish game. David Longmuir has obviously enjoyed his wee taste of the Old Firm pie this season, which has left him begging for more. Makes us all feel a wee bit like crack addicts needing to rely on them so much.

 

Finally. League Reconstruction.

Where to start!

 

Actually, I’ll start by telling you what I’m going to do if this goes through. I’m going to not buy a season ticket, I’m not going to attend any more SPL games and will only attend on cup games/friendlies/European games. Please don’t take this as insincere bluster, and don’t think me as the only person that is likely to do this. I don’t want to do it, it’d be very difficult for me to do it – but I just cannot justify it anymore. The game is broken, from the ground up – and the only way to fix it is to grab the bull by the horns and do it. Not just make a couple of wee changes to tide you over till Rangers re-join the league. This is not aimed at just you OfficialMFC, but every single club in Scottish football.

 

If the only options on the table are Status Quo or the proposed new set up – why don’t you all not just get together, sort your own futures out (without the meddling of Doncaster and the SPL) and say, do you know what? We all believe so strongly in this that we are not agreeing to either, and as such, here’s a new proposal. We have to be prepared to make big sacrifices for the long term viability of the game. If we don’t, our club won’t exist in 25yrs time, I’m sure of it.

 

The ‘Well Society members have agreed on the proposed suggestion because you haven’t provided them with another option. 11 clubs having a public vote of no confidence in the SPL or Neil Doncaster would soon make them go back to the drawing board.

 

Why do you think the crowds are as they are now? The reasons are clear to see:

 

• Too expensive
  
• Poor Quality
  
• Television
  
• Playing the same time 3/4 times a season
  
• Lack of Competition
  
• Winter Football
  
• Financial tightening of everyone's belts
  

 

I could name a few more. This new proposal, in my opinion, will have an impact on attendances and season ticket sales – What’s the point in buying a season ticket when you don’t know which part of the three sections you’ll end up in and you might even end up with points being reset?

 

On April 15th 2013 – I hope and trust that you will do what’s right for our club. Not what’s right for this season or next, but what’s right for the long term future of the Scottish game.

Competitiveness and fairness wins over greed. If the SPL aren’t playing ball – then the clubs shouldn’t play ball with them.

[Rory Bellows]

Great post Gaag

[SteelmaninOZ]

Great post Gaag

[Steve Diggle]

Absolute stormer

[weeyin]

To be fair, they did answer a number of those points at the Well Society meeting - in particular about the league reconstruction. Whether you believe it or not is a different story, but a number of clubs see the merging of the governing bodies, improved voting strucutre and the redistribution of funds as a positive part of the bigger picture.

 

The idea being that for a 3 year period, the more equitable distribution of wealth will give the lower league clubs more opportunity to grow. At the end of 3 years, the league structure is up for discussion again and the hope expressed was that the lower league clubs would then be in a better financial position to join an expanded top flight.

 

If all that is true, then it is a reasonable position for me.

 

The issue lies around the interim structure. There are clubs (and Aberdeen was mentioned as one) who still see themselves as Johnny Big Shots, who see things as of they were part of the OF and tend to vote the same way. Add to that that potential sponsors are said to want change to the league format, and that is where the fun begins.

 

 

If I was given 100% assurance that after 3 years the top league was guaranteed to be expanded, I could live with the new proposals, as there are plenty of positive changes that are in the pipeline. If not, then the club could be voting itself out of existance.

[GrahamH]

Well said Gaag.

[underboyleheating]

Well said Gagg, I couldn't have put it any better. It's time we grew a set of balls.

[joewarkfanclub]

In three years time there is no guarantee the clubs in the first division will be stronger.

 

However the Rangers will be back and Sky will want their 4 OF games again.

 

Back to square one.

 

PS excellent post Gaag.

[Lobey_Dosser]

Dear Weir and Dempster,

 

Please phone your counterparts at Aberdeen, St Miiren, Hibs and co asking that they play out their skin against Celtic in the coming weeks.

 

In return we will dish out our share of prize money for winning the league.

[johnstone]

We always bang on about the SPL being poor quality. I am not so sure about that. I fave found most games at fir park this season have been pretty entertaining.

[Welldaft Mk1]

I am not entirely happy with aspects of how the SPL and SFA have conducted themselves during these discussions around re-construction, nor do I agree with the plans..............but.........

 

I find criticism of the club and Directors a little hard to take. They are damned if they don't and damned if they do. Whatever decision they make and however they do it they will and are being criticised. They are custodians of the club and whilst not perfect are entrusted with ensuring we have a secure future. At times this is at odds with the fans wishes. I do not envy them these responsibilities.

 

I feel in the main the club have been far more open, honest and approachable than most SPL clubs, but far from getting any credit they are from some quarters continually derided.

 

We are sitting pretty in the SPL with a budget a hell of a lot smaller than Hearts, Hibs, Aberdeen etc. They have been responsible for hiring Managers that have ensured we have delivered more than we could have hoped for over the past 5 or 6 season. 10 points v Hearts, Celtic, Aberdeen and Hibs. Was not that long ago I would have seen those fixtures and thought we would be lucky to come away with 2 or 3.

 

Yet for all this people want to threaten not to return to Fir Park. Each to their own. As for me I will buy my season ticket for the forseeable future. We really ought to savour what we are producing and achieving as it may not be that long before we are battling away in the bottom half, fighting to avoid relegation.

[joewarkfanclub]

Its not a matter of criticising the club or directors. They are clearly running a steady ship and have got more right than wrong during their stewardship, otherwise we wouldnt have had the relative success we have enjoyed over the last few years.

 

However, if we as fans DONT complain or question when we see things that apear on the surface to be unfair or not in the best interests of the club then how do we expect the club to act in our interests?

 

In relation to not buying season tickets / attending SPL games. No one wants to go down that route, however it IS the only real effective form of protest supporters have at their disposal to show their clubs how serious they are.

 

In this case it is all the more relevant. Who in their right mind would go to the supermarket and buy a product when they dont know the contents of the box?

 

The 3 x 8 is mental.

 

We would be better just merging the SPL and SFL redistributing the money (inc Celtics!) and sticking with the current split set up.

 

That gives us the bits everyone likes without this madness.

 

And while we are at it lets get the voting structure sorted.

[Steve Diggle]

For me the bottom line is that - the old firm combined to bully, threaten, blackmail and generally throw their weight around, for the betterment of their own situation and the detriment of all other clubs.

 

If we don't take this once in a lifetime opportunity to gang up on an exposed celtic and a deid r*****s to smash them in the baws as hard as we can then we'll have missed a once in a lifetime opportunity.

 

Our aim should be to damage their hold on the game as much as possible, then prevent them from returning to that tyrannical position ever again.

 

A bit less kofi Annan please

[gilmour]

Fantastically put gagg and also sums it up for me. We have a real chance to Change and the new setup proposed just fudges the issue and treads water until rangers come back and then it will be same old same old. As for the board not getting credit I feel this is an unfair statement,the have been given credit for listening to the fans but they cannot pick and choose when they want to listen and when they think they know better.

For me the massive points are being missed when it comes to re construction , they MUST and have not looked at why the game is toiling gagg summed it up.

 

Too expensive.TV running the game with fixturesPlaying teams too many times ( I remember playing utd 3 times in 2 weeks talk about boring)No competitionWinter football ( pissing down windy nights does not encourage me to go when I'm lacking motivation as it is)Also financial tightening of everyone's belts. ( unless we make the game cheaper and more attractive this will only get worse)

We are sitting pretty in the league with a smaller budget and the board can take credit for that as we bit the bullet a long time before other clubs but don't say we are lucky to be in this position as eventually other clubs were bound to do the same. This was simply planning ahead and now we are reaping the rewards, well the massively reduced rewards ( I knew here haw about the reduced income for finnishing 2nd).

 

We MUST MUST plan for the future and what's proposed does not do that and is no way in the best interest of the game. Lets be bold and forward thinking and say no to the new set up unless it benefits the game long term. In my opinion this cannot be done until we address the falling crowds for the above reasons, the new set up will only drive more away and sadly I probably will be one of them.

[Tweed]

There is lots of good stuff in the proposal but the structure of the league is the one that concerns me. I've defended the current set up when many have criticised it for a number of years and I feel a bit sorry for the authorities on this one. Every criticism that people throw at the split this new proposal eradicates. Commentators and fans are after a 16 team league, I don't get why we want to lose the best part of a quarter of our games. To me an 18 team league is the only sensible alternative to the 12. I'd prefer the status quo but I can understand the rationale for change. I've not heard anyone who is safeguarding the future of any top flight club say that a 16 team league will help them yet in the prize money bit everyone says thats what we should be doing so I think as fans we need to trust that those on the inside are making decisions for the right reasons and whilst there may be some short term pain we need to bite the bullet with this madcap system for two or three years.

[milo]

Whilst I am in complete agreement with many of the points raised above, I'd also like to take the opportunity to thank the board for bringing James McFadden back to Motherwell for what is easily the most exciting signing in my lifetime.

[Kmcalpin]

I am not entirely happy with aspects of how the SPL and SFA have conducted themselves during these discussions around re-construction, nor do I agree with the plans..............but.........

 

I find criticism of the club and Directors a little hard to take. They are damned if they don't and damned if they do. Whatever decision they make and however they do it they will and are being criticised. They are custodians of the club and whilst not perfect are entrusted with ensuring we have a secure future. At times this is at odds with the fans wishes. I do not envy them these responsibilities.

 

I feel in the main the club have been far more open, honest and approachable than most SPL clubs, but far from getting any credit they are from some quarters continually derided.

 

We are sitting pretty in the SPL with a budget a hell of a lot smaller than Hearts, Hibs, Aberdeen etc. They have been responsible for hiring Managers that have ensured we have delivered more than we could have hoped for over the past 5 or 6 season. 10 points v Hearts, Celtic, Aberdeen and Hibs. Was not that long ago I would have seen those fixtures and thought we would be lucky to come away with 2 or 3.

 

Yet for all this people want to threaten not to return to Fir Park. Each to their own. As for me I will buy my season ticket for the forseeable future. We really ought to savour what we are producing and achieving as it may not be that long before we are battling away in the bottom half, fighting to avoid relegation.

 

Bang on the money Iain. First and foremost I'll continue to support the Well and last night was a timely reminder why I'll never weaken. My late father went to Fir Park from the 1930s until about 2000 and he never waivered in his love and unconditional support for the club. That didn't mean that he wouldn't criticise the powers that be on occasion. Fortunately there are thousands who think the same.

 

That of course doesn't mean that I like all the components of the reconstruction package (league structure/OF colt teams/cash distribution etc), because I don't and neither does MFC. I think the SFA, SPL and yes even the SFL made a complete mess of things. I'm old enough and ugly enough to know that the SPL/SFL clubs largely vote according to selfish criteria and getting agreement on almost anything is exceedingly difficult. Its quite plain that the reconstruction proposals come as a package and that endless lobbying and horse trading is involved. Certain clubs like Aberdeen and Celtic will NOT budge on particular aspects and to garner their support for Issue Y you have to concede on Issue X. Thats life. Its the same in politics, union negotiations and in many aspects of life. I doubt for example if Union members agree with all aspects of their TU's policies and the world of trade unionism is very murky as we all know. Again thats life.

 

If we look around us at the likes of Dundee, Dunfermline, Hearts and Kilmarnock we have a lot to be thankful for at Fir Park. We have a great board of Directors who run our club very well. Yes, of course they make mistakes but who doesn't. They are far more open than most clubs are. I might not agree with all that do but they have my full support. They are in full possession of the facts on the running of an SPL club and on the reconstruction proposals and we are not (certain aspects have to remain confidential).

[SteelmaninOZ]

Bang on the money Iain. First and foremost I'll continue to support the Well and last night was a timely reminder why I'll never weaken. My late father went to Fir Park from the 1930s until about 2000 and he never waivered in his love and unconditional support for the club. That didn't mean that he wouldn't criticise the powers that be on occasion. Fortunately there are thousands who think the same.

 

That of course doesn't mean that I like all the components of the reconstruction package (league structure/OF colt teams/cash distribution etc), because I don't and neither does MFC. I think the SFA, SPL and yes even the SFL made a complete mess of things. I'm old enough and ugly enough to know that the SPL/SFL clubs largely vote according to selfish criteria and getting agreement on almost anything is exceedingly difficult. Its quite plain that the reconstruction proposals come as a package and that endless lobbying and horse trading is involved. Certain clubs like Aberdeen and Celtic will NOT budge on particular aspects and to garner their support for Issue Y you have to concede on Issue X. Thats life. Its the same in politics, union negotiations and in many aspects of life. I doubt for example if Union members agree with all aspects of their TU's policies and the world of trade unionism is very murky as we all know. Again thats life.

 

If we look around us at the likes of Dundee, Dunfermline, Hearts and Kilmarnock we have a lot to be thankful for at Fir Park. We have a great board of Directors who run our club very well. Yes, of course they make mistakes but who doesn't. They are far more open than most clubs are. I might not agree with all that do but they have my full support. They are in full possession of the facts on the running of an SPL club and on the reconstruction proposals and we are not (certain aspects have to remain confidential).

 

+1