To The Board At Motherwell Football Club

[joewarkfanclub]

Thanks for that Netherton. So it appears yet again we are following the money instead of doing what is best for the game and allowing the money to follow. I respect the clubs decision as they have to balance the books and do what they feel is best for the club, I just disagree that this proposal is the answer.

[Lobey_Dosser]

Cheers NWF, much appreciated. Think the St Mirren statement will have affected the attendance as we are pretty sure it won't get voted through.

 

Gambling company to be the sponsor? I've jokingly suggested 888.com but it's the only logic behind this setup.

[East_Stand_Al]

Thanks for that Netherton. So it appears yet again we are following the money instead of doing what is best for the game and allowing the money to follow. I respect the clubs decision as they have to balance the books and do what they feel is best for the club, I just disagree that this proposal is the answer.

 

What do you consider as being "best for the game", and how do you propose its funded?

 

The game is on its arse and while a bigger league is the holy grail see this as not the end but a means to an end, in time there will be current lower league teams who are financially stable enough and able to join an expanded league on a competitive basis.

[Kmcalpin]

Right I am just back from the open forum and I have to say I was extremely disappointed with the turnout. Only 20 or so fans turned up on the night in what I feel is an important issue for the club and the future of Scottish Football. I concede that some folk will have had other commitments but surely we could muster at least 100.....Although, I am still against the proposals I am more understanding of the decision the club has to make and why they are in favour of the proposals.

 

A good post Netherton - well balanced.

 

I too am disappointed at the attendance and there could be many reasons for that but we may have to face the fact that many fans simply may not care either way. Maybe we are guilty of assuming that our support is either for or against but in reality many just turn up to watch the football and don't care about the politics.

[gilmour]

What's the point the decision has already been made. That's my view.

 

[Inthebasement]

1365718882[/url]' post='379119']

Right ...

Although, I am still against the proposals I am more understanding of the decision the club has to make and why they are in favour of the proposals.

 

Thanks for this helpful post. I note you voted against the proposals but nonetheless admit to a softening of view - if it was a straight choice between the status quo and the new proposals how would you vote?

Edited April 12, 2013 by Yabba's Turd
No need to quote the entire post mate

[Browni]

Many thanks NWF for reporting back.

[nethertonwellfan]

Thanks for that Netherton. So it appears yet again we are following the money instead of doing what is best for the game and allowing the money to follow. I respect the clubs decision as they have to balance the books and do what they feel is best for the club, I just disagree that this proposal is the answer.

I actually don't think they are chasing the money as such. Aye finances are a huge factor but I do think they are trying to increase the quality of the second tier and close the gap and whether we like it or not finance has to be a huge part of that. Derek Weir qualified this by saying that if we were relegated (under current financial model) we could survive for 1 year. If we didn't come straight back up then we would be in real trouble and the future of our club would be at stake. Under the proposals the winner of the second tier will go from getting 60k to about 260 k and that's before you include any extra tv revenue that the middle 8 will generate. Nevertheless, I agree that this propsal is not the answer and I don't think Raith v St Mirren or Morton v Kilmarnock will generate anymore interest than what we have now.

 

What do you consider as being "best for the game", and how do you propose its funded?

 

The game is on its arse and while a bigger league is the holy grail see this as not the end but a means to an end, in time there will be current lower league teams who are financially stable enough and able to join an expanded league on a competitive basis.

See I don't think these propsals will be a means to an end and the reason for that is the voting structure. One of the issues that is locked down for 3 years is increasing the league. By that time Rangers will be back in the SPL and they and Celtic will be back to holding the aces. In my opinion it's no coincidence that the lockdown is for 3 years and again In my opinion the idea that this is an excercise to aid the progression to an expanded league is pie in the sky. If it was a voting structure change would be part of this package.

 

What's the point the decision has already been made. That's my view.

 

I said exactly the same thing when Jim Spence broke the news but sometimes we should listen to the club as well as demand the club listen to us. It's important to know why they are making the decision. It's fact that peoples views changed after the discussion last night. It was an informative night and I am glad I went along even if I was in the minority int he end.

 

Thanks for this helpful post. I note you voted against the proposals but nonetheless admit to a softening of view - if it was a straight choice between the status quo and the new proposals how would you vote?

Sadly I would have to chose the status quo and basically when I put my hand up at the end of the night against these proposals that's what I was doing. 3 major issues for me that I can't accept is the 3 year lockdown, this is 3 years for a reason and nobody will convince me otherwise. The voting structure that is still 11-1 on major issues is also a major reason. I did state if this was really a start of a progression to a bigger league I would compromise and grudgingly support it but as I have said I think this is pie in the sky with the 11-1 voting structure. If this was a truly merging of the bodies it would be more than 12 clubs who would decide on an expansion of the top flight. It should be 75% of the 42. If this was in place I would support it. The third reason is the split structure which I utter detest and I would only be able grudgingly accept it if there was a guarantee of a progression to a bigger league.

[Ian-in-Oz]

I think most people who are for this proposal are people who think their club will finish in the top 8 so they won't be affected by the zeroing of points etc. I'm not convinced it's a coincidence that the only dissenting voices we've heard are from St Mirren & Ross County who could easily find themselves in the bottom four after the first set of games. But for me it's all about treading water until the zombies return then it will be back to as you were nothings changed & everyone still bending over to let the OF give them a right good rogering.

[SteelmaninOZ]

I think most people who are for this proposal are people who think their club will finish in the top 8 so they won't be affected by the zeroing of points etc. I'm not convinced it's a coincidence that the only dissenting voices we've heard are from St Mirren & Ross County who could easily find themselves in the bottom four after the first set of games. But for me it's all about treading water until the zombies return then it will be back to as you were nothings changed & everyone still bending over to let the OF give them a right good rogering.

 

Now Ian that is the elephant in the room.

[NottsMFC]

Thanks for the report NWF, appreciated.

[joewarkfanclub]

I actually don't think they are chasing the money as such. Aye finances are a huge factor but I do think they are trying to increase the quality of the second tier and close the gap and whether we like it or not finance has to be a huge part of that. Derek Weir qualified this by saying that if we were relegated (under current financial model) we could survive for 1 year. If we didn't come straight back up then we would be in real trouble and the future of our club would be at stake. Under the proposals the winner of the second tier will go from getting 60k to about 260 k and that's before you include any extra tv revenue that the middle 8 will generate. Nevertheless, I agree that this propsal is not the answer and I don't think Raith v St Mirren or Morton v Kilmarnock will generate anymore interest than what we have now.

 

 

See I don't think these propsals will be a means to an end and the reason for that is the voting structure. One of the issues that is locked down for 3 years is increasing the league. By that time Rangers will be back in the SPL and they and Celtic will be back to holding the aces. In my opinion it's no coincidence that the lockdown is for 3 years and again In my opinion the idea that this is an excercise to aid the progression to an expanded league is pie in the sky. If it was a voting structure change would be part of this package.

 

 

I said exactly the same thing when Jim Spence broke the news but sometimes we should listen to the club as well as demand the club listen to us. It's important to know why they are making the decision. It's fact that peoples views changed after the discussion last night. It was an informative night and I am glad I went along even if I was in the minority int he end.

 

 

Sadly I would have to chose the status quo and basically when I put my hand up at the end of the night against these proposals that's what I was doing. 3 major issues for me that I can't accept is the 3 year lockdown, this is 3 years for a reason and nobody will convince me otherwise. The voting structure that is still 11-1 on major issues is also a major reason. I did state if this was really a start of a progression to a bigger league I would compromise and grudgingly support it but as I have said I think this is pie in the sky with the 11-1 voting structure. If this was a truly merging of the bodies it would be more than 12 clubs who would decide on an expansion of the top flight. It should be 75% of the 42. If this was in place I would support it. The third reason is the split structure which I utter detest and I would only be able grudgingly accept it if there was a guarantee of a progression to a bigger league.

 

I agree with just about everything you say here.

 

When I made reference to chasing the money, I was talking more about the SPL than MFC who I accept can only make decisions in respect of the options open to them.

 

The fact that this is a take it or leave it scenario is what angers me. There is still an agenda here and it is being dressed up a certain way to placate the fans who flexed their muscles last summer.

 

Football is on its arse because for too long those running the game have ignored their customers. This is just another example.

 

What business can continue to do that and survive?

[another number]

Thanks for the summary nwf

 

With respect to the sky deal and sponsorship Derek weir said at the last meeting they couldn't put any figure on it as sky wouldn't give an indication until you took them a finalised package. While I know that's not really how use world works I cant help but feel that a deal for this and the sponsorship appears better for a new set up because all the energy has been put into getting a deal for this.

 

As for the attendance after it coming out in the media that we would be voting for the proposals from people I know at least a few decided not to go on that basis. I'd personally still have went if I could have but I think a lot of people are only interested in the final decision rather than the rationale.

[nethertonwellfan]

Thanks for the summary nwf

 

With respect to the sky deal and sponsorship Derek weir said at the last meeting they couldn't put any figure on it as sky wouldn't give an indication until you took them a finalised package. While I know that's not really how use world works I cant help but feel that a deal for this and the sponsorship appears better for a new set up because all the energy has been put into getting a deal for this.

 

As for the attendance after it coming out in the media that we would be voting for the proposals from people I know at least a few decided not to go on that basis. I'd personally still have went if I could have but I think a lot of people are only interested in the final decision rather than the rationale.

No figures were actually put on the Sky deal but he did say that Sky have valued the new set up higher than the staus quo. I don't know how they come up with that because if there is no appeal in St Mirren v Dundee now then why does it suddenly become more interesting just because it is part of a play off league?

[sbcmfc]

How interesting is the middle 8 if as expected it fairly quickly becomes 2 groups of 4?

 

(Although doing the maths on that, I suppose there will be a lot of cutting each others throats??)

 

It does seem like this is a move to keep fans quiet until rangers get back to the top flight, it maintains the 4 old firm games per season and maintains 11-1 cartel, which are the most important things it appears.

 

In return you get a bit more money if you do somehow manage to get relegated (which has been made very difficult).

[another number]

That's the part I don't understand, I think you still have the situation where the "excitement" largely boils down to that one game where you end up going up or down.

[dennyc]

Thanks for the detailed update NWF. Much appreciated.

 

Although I still disagree with the new set up I can now understand where the Club are coming from given the financial information they have been provided with. At the end of the day the future of MFC is my priority. I just hope the promise of a new sponsor and an improved/continuing Sky deal comes to be and that Doncaster and the rest are held to account if it's all bullshit.

 

The one thing I cannot get my head round is how on earth £60k to £100k extra a year will eventually result in the likes of Morton, Raith Rovers etc being able to compete in an expanded top division. In football terms the sums involved are not life changing and, if we are to believe what we are told, the additional income may simply provide the safety net required to ensure survival of most of the current 1st Division clubs. Not a bad thing but please don't ask me to believe it will lead to any meaningful growth in these clubs or enable them to compete at a higher level. Ross County appear to have made the transition, but that seems to be the result of a generous benefactor providing the support required.

 

Time only will tell if we ever move to a top division of 14 or more clubs but don't be surprised if we are still having this debate in 10 year's time.

 

 

 

 

[nethertonwellfan]

Thanks for the detailed update NWF. Much appreciated.

 

Although I still disagree with the new set up I can now understand where the Club are coming from given the financial information they have been provided with. At the end of the day the future of MFC is my priority. I just hope the promise of a new sponsor and an improved/continuing Sky deal comes to be and that Doncaster and the rest are held to account if it's all bullshit.

 

The one thing I cannot get my head round is how on earth £60k to £100k extra a year will eventually result in the likes of Morton, Raith Rovers etc being able to compete in an expanded top division. In football terms the sums involved are not life changing and, if we are to believe what we are told, the additional income may simply provide the safety net required to ensure survival of most of the current 1st Division clubs. Not a bad thing but please don't ask me to believe it will lead to any meaningful growth in these clubs or enable them to compete at a higher level. Ross County appear to have made the transition, but that seems to be the result of a generous benefactor providing the support required.

 

Time only will tell if we ever move to a top division of 14 or more clubs but don't be surprised if we are still having this debate in 10 year's time.

 

 

 

 

In fairness it is an extra 200k and that extra money can help them fund a youth infrastrucure that can only help them moving forward. Make no mistake 200k is a hell of alot of money to the likes of Motherwell never mind Morton and Raith Rovers. Again that's if the extra cash was used sensibly. This season Partick Thistle will get 60k for winning the First Division but if their undersoil heating were to break down and needing replaced that would wipe that 60k out. Don't understimate the impact that this money will have on these clubs.

[NottsMFC]

McCall - Evening Times

 

Commenting on league reconstruction.

[Wellfan1984]

Club chairmen don't learn from history. Chasing the money instead of trying to fix the game. 1997 all over again

[TonyS88]

No figures were actually put on the Sky deal but he did say that Sky have valued the new set up higher than the staus quo. I don't know how they come up with that because if there is no appeal in St Mirren v Dundee now then why does it suddenly become more interesting just because it is part of a play off league?

 

I think the appeal to Sky might be more guaranteed games between the bigger clubs in the top eight (Less chance of the Edinburgh sides finishing on opposite sides, more OF away to Dundee Utd, Aberdeen etc. on average) any small increase for the middle 8s games could be a bonus.

[Ya Bezzer!]

I think there are some genuinely altruistic reasons for this reconstruction because professional football out with the top division is becoming unsustainable but at the end of the day I can see this descending into farce if it gets the go ahead.

 

We are fooling ourselves if we think by desperate fire fighting every few years we can maintain Scottish football at it's current levels.

 

I'd compare it to gardening. You have to prune to get new growth and that's what Scottish football has to do. Football clubs must learn to live on money that they generate themselves and not be held hostage by television companies.

 

If that means lower wages, capped squad sizes, part time football, one year contracts etc, etc then that's what we should do.

 

We need to be in a position where clubs can actually invest in their infrastructure and we cannot do that when we are hanging on grimly for survival.

 

The key is to ensure every club is profitable. Slicing the pie so that clubs artificially survive on hand outs from governing bodies is fundamentally flawed.

 

The crisis now is a financial crisis, it is not one of set up. We are trying to fix a headache with a bandage.

[stv]

Thanks for the report NWF interesting but dissapointing turn out dont know the reasons for that ....many thought decision had been made ,not publicised enough or no entrance at the door on the night without registering. Havent decided if its good or bad yet

[fatcalf]

Personally I think it's past the point of no return, the game will slowly die away thanks to greedy fuckers sucking it dry. Fans told those who ran clubs years ago to cut back the live TV, address high admission costs, bring in wage caps, revert to bigger leagues etc etc.

 

Clubs have now backed themselves into a corner where they can't do without TV money and fans will continue to walk away as every decision is driven by the need to secure revenue streams.

 

Congratulations fuckwits, only a matter of time before the Old Firm bribe someone enough to admit them to their set-up but it will be too late to breathe new life into Scottish fitba'.

 

I have no more suggestions, all have been done to death, this current clusterfuck is mental and when the crowds are non-existent TV will pull the plug and everyone wll be fucked. At least the fans would have stuck by you if you played the game with them.

[Yabba's Turd]

They want to take a parochial sport (in this country) franchise it, brand it, market it and sell it to an armchair punter.

 

That's impossible, so we have a hybrid situation of not a tv sport and not a spectator sport.

 

Oh aye, the standard has fallen to 2nd division standards as well, fuck all going to save that