Steve Diggle Posted April 13, 2013 Report Share Posted April 13, 2013 Fatcalf sums it up perfectly again. If these are the only options on the table then all parties should hang their head in black burning shame. Clubs, governing bodies, sponsors the lot. If this really is the last chance saloon, why are these people only meeting once every month to 6 weeks? Why is there even the remotest possibility of an 11-1 voting structure being continued? Where else in the world would this be allowed to happen? Why did Aberdeen vote to keep it? Why are TV companies paying a pittance and demanding big changes to the league structure. They should be demanding better playing surfaces and measures to get more punters in (home and away) so that they have something decent and exciting to broadcast. Not that I want to go down the EPL route, but, lets compare.and contrast. Sky fund that whole circus down there by flooding the thing with money. QPR, Wigan, Swansea, Blackpool etc have all thrown millions at transfers, thousands per week at wages because the sky guys are bring fresh banknotes to them by the truckload, Transfer deadline day has become a bigger event than the FA Cup Final. £3billion was it not, for their last deal. So lets be clear, just across the border, without much haggling, Sky throw obscene amounts of money at an existing league structure, with no preconditions on which teams are involved. Up here they want to dictate the whole shooting match and fund survival on the breadline. Personally I'm no big Sky fan, it's overdone to the point it's hurting the game. But the north south divide in this situation is sickening. And whoever negotiated this deal should be shot (maybe the flat-topped weener would have got on better if he hadn't been bleating continually in the press about Armageddon) "so you say the entire game in Scotland is fucked mr Doncaster, like the Irish league you say. How can we help?" Time to ditch 11-1 voting, move back to two biggish leagues and a pyramid, get Sky to fuck and move on. Matt said it years ago It's time to rebuild from the ashes. The people in charge of our game, our clubs need to be cleared out in a violent coup. Oh and I wasn't at the meeting because I'm apathetic about the whole thing. These monkeys have it stitched up. Nothing any of us can say can halt this juggernaut. Better to let it just crash. Well society, well schmociety 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welldaft Mk1 Posted April 13, 2013 Report Share Posted April 13, 2013 Agree to some extent with Diggle and Matt. We have become reliant on the TV cash, but the upshot of that is that the product on the pitch at Fir Park the past 5-6 years has been for the most part exciting to watch. Yet crowds rarely move from the averages of the past. So if I was running the club would I put my faith in the fans coming back in droves because we ditch Sky TV and increase the size if the league. NO I would not. I am not sold on the proposed league structure but I feel other planned changes are and will be beneficial for football in this country, not least the move to one governing body and merge the SFL and the SPL. Get rid of some overpaid wasters. When all is said and done it will all be irrelevant if as is being reported St mirren and Ross County vote against the changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted April 13, 2013 Report Share Posted April 13, 2013 There's no doubt that TV is having a seriously detrimental impact on the game up here - from inconvenient kick off times to derisory financial offers. But there's no point in us whingeing and moaning about it when we are probably the root cause of the problem ourselves. There's no point in blaming everyone (SFA/SPL/SFL/the club) but ourselves. The solution is in our own hands - unsubscribe. Hit Sky & ESPN where it hurts - in their pockets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wellfan1984 Posted April 13, 2013 Report Share Posted April 13, 2013 The solution is in our own hands - unsubscribe. Hit Sky & ESPN where it hurts - in their pockets. You think Sky and ESPN will link it to them ruining Scottish Football? Sky bdon't give a fuck about people watching Scottish Football, and they won't care to put 2+2 together. Plus, I and probably many other people don't have sky for the SPL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted April 13, 2013 Report Share Posted April 13, 2013 You think Sky and ESPN will link it to them ruining Scottish Football? Sky bdon't give a fuck about people watching Scottish Football, and they won't care to put 2+2 together. Plus, I and probably many other people don't have sky for the SPL. Its a win win situation. If there was a mass switch in Scotland, they might just might listen. If they didn't, then KO times would revert to 3pm on Saturday and live attendances would increase. Its not just Sky of course but also ESPN. Why not boycott pubs and clubs while live footie was being shown? I know that not everyone on here does have access to live TV footie but many will do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted April 13, 2013 Report Share Posted April 13, 2013 I'm sure as hell not going to give up my coverage of the golf, cricket, Spanish football, etc just because the incompetent buffoons who run Scottish football continue to make blunder after blunder when it comes to the future of our game. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wellfan1984 Posted April 13, 2013 Report Share Posted April 13, 2013 I'm sure as hell not going to give up my coverage of the golf, cricket, Spanish football, etc just because the incompetent buffoons who run Scottish football continue to make blunder after blunder when it comes to the future of our game. Exactly! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted April 13, 2013 Report Share Posted April 13, 2013 I'm sure as hell not going to give up my coverage of the golf, cricket, Spanish football, etc just because the incompetent buffoons who run Scottish football continue to make blunder after blunder when it comes to the future of our game. Fair dos, but that service comes at the price of awkward kick off time and the like. We can't have it both ways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
another number Posted April 13, 2013 Report Share Posted April 13, 2013 I think Doncaster was brought in specifically for his skills in bringing in money and sponsorship. While bearing in mind he might not have a fantastic "product" to deal with I see no evidence that he's doing any better than anyone previously and seems to be relying on a league change to sort anything for this season. From the looks of it all his eggs are in one basket and if the new setup doesn't go through we'll struggle for sponsorship next season Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbcmfc Posted April 13, 2013 Report Share Posted April 13, 2013 Yes one of the many elephants in the room! It's like a circus! Doncasters position becomes untenable if the changes are not voted through and there is no sponsor for 2013/14. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted April 13, 2013 Report Share Posted April 13, 2013 Fair dos, but that service comes at the price of awkward kick off time and the like. We can't have it both ways. I'm not asking for it both ways. In the long list of things that need changing for the benefit of Scottish football, kick-off times are a long way down. Yes, in an ideal world, every game kicking off at 3pm would be ideal. However, to suggest that on its own would make anywhere near a significant difference to attendances in Scotland is bordering on naive. Sky, and other media outlets, offer a fantastic package of entertainment. It's up to Scottish football to come up with ways to compete with them when trying to attract an audience. Sky is here to stay. Trying to get everyone to switch theirs off and pretend it doesn't exist is laughable, I'm afraid. Doncasters position becomes untenable if the changes are not voted through and there is no sponsor for 2013/14. All the more reason to vote for the status quo, I'd say... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brazilian Posted April 13, 2013 Report Share Posted April 13, 2013 I'm not asking for it both ways. In the long list of things that need changing for the benefit of Scottish football, kick-off times are a long way down. Yes, in an ideal world, every game kicking off at 3pm would be ideal. However, to suggest that on its own would make anywhere near a significant difference to attendances in Scotland is bordering on naive. Sky, and other media outlets, offer a fantastic package of entertainment. It's up to Scottish football to come up with ways to compete with them when trying to attract an audience. Sky is here to stay. Trying to get everyone to switch theirs off and pretend it doesn't exist is laughable, I'm afraid. All the more reason to vote for the status quo, I'd say... when match scheduling was regular and repeatable, enough people paid in to games to keep pricing lower. they same people were in a habit of attending matches it was part of their week, as soon as fixture juggling started getting silly , it made it difficult to balance that week for meany people, and the drop of in attendance gained momentum, around the same period prices started rising, until we are where we are now, only the ones that are willing to sacrifice other social events are able to make the majority of matches. and from what I see and feel, even those people are starting to miss matches because of the scheduling and especially with the late changes. yes, regular fixed match scheduling might not fix the problem, but it would help. you want SKY/ESPN/BT/ALBA, then scheduling is always going to be juggled to suit them all, and with so few teams for them to choose matches from , we all get messed about. we know we need some TV money, but three deals? for 12 teams, nonsense. especially the ESPN one that has no financial benefit due to the losses from the laughable ko slot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
another number Posted April 13, 2013 Report Share Posted April 13, 2013 I completely agree, so much relies on once people are going making it easy to keep them going. It's a slippery slope when people miss a couple of games, suddenly realise it doesn't really adversely effect their life, they're not missing that much, possibly saving money, and it makes it easier to miss games in the future. It's ties in with the cheaper entry, people who never come along aren't going to come to one game which has reduced entry then suddenly decide they need to find 20 quid every second week to get in. It's not the way the real world works, especially now that money is tight for so many people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted April 13, 2013 Report Share Posted April 13, 2013 So you're admitting that fans who don't go to games on, say, a Sunday lunchtime realise that they're not missing anything too much? You're admitting that they feel the product on offer isn't attractive enough for them to willingly choose to return? You're admitting that they're only going out of habit? Blame the broadcasting companies all you want then. I'd say that sounds more like an issue with Scottish football, rather than the kick-off times. Let's be clear, I'm not defending having kick-off times all over the shop. However, I think some are getting far too carried away about the inconvenience suffered in a season. It's not as though we're on television every second weekend. It's not as if we're playing Friday night one week, Sunday lunchtime the next. Also, there will be a number of people who cannot make a Sunday game or a Friday night game. However, that number won't be significantly high. Also, there will be a number of people who cannot make a Saturday 3pm kick-off either. I'm agreeing that awkward kick-off times are an issue. However, I strongly disagree that they are anywhere near as important as other factors that our country's football authorities need to be addressing first. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special aka Posted April 13, 2013 Report Share Posted April 13, 2013 Fatcalf sums it up perfectly again. ............................................... Why is there even the remotest possibility of an 11-1 voting structure being continued? Where else in the world would this be allowed to happen? Why did Aberdeen vote to keep it? ........................................................ Strongly agree with this. I can't believe 11-1 will be retained. They've complained about it for long enough - the very same fukkwits who voted it in - and now they want to retain it in this all or nothing nonescence. Well done to St Mirren and Ross County for having the balls to stand up to the bully-boys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lobey_Dosser Posted April 13, 2013 Report Share Posted April 13, 2013 Roy MacGregor pushing for compromise. http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/22135567 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nethertonwellfan Posted April 13, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 13, 2013 I have a feeling that he will lose his bottle and vote yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Diggle Posted April 14, 2013 Report Share Posted April 14, 2013 The BBC Gossip Column gives an insight into a couple of wee nuggets. Celtic chief executive Peter Lawwell says the SPL will leave it up to the Scottish Football League clubs to decide which of the two bottom divisions Rangers will play in next season should a new 12-12-18 structure find favour in votes by the two league bodies this week. (The Sun) TV companies are excited at the prospect of a revamped Scottish league structure, according to Celtic chief executive Peter Lawwell. (The Sun) Celtic chief executive Peter Lawwell says he will speak directly to Roy MacGregor if necessary should that be needed to persuade the Ross County chairman to vote "yes" in Monday's vote by the Scottish Premier League clubs when they consider a proposal to restructure the nation's league to divisions of 12-12-18. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wellfan1984 Posted April 14, 2013 Report Share Posted April 14, 2013 Peter Lawwell in charge. Anyone shocked? You know the thing, I don't even blame Celtic for this mess, it's cunts that are running the other 11 clubs that are an absolute disgrace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
something else Posted April 14, 2013 Report Share Posted April 14, 2013 Lawwell is running scottish football. He wanted to be everybodys pal when he needed their backing to force Rangers out the SPL. Now he's back to being the dictator. As wellfan says, its the other clubs who are to blame though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Made Posted April 14, 2013 Report Share Posted April 14, 2013 He's also quoted as saying that the SFL Clubs can still vote for a 12-12-10-10 as another option, he is bothered how the leagues are split below the top 2 of 12. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewarkfanclub Posted April 14, 2013 Report Share Posted April 14, 2013 So in summary...... Doncaster has secured an enhanced tv deal and sponsorship for 8x8x8 only. The cashstrapped clubs cannot afford to remain with the status quo despite any reservations they may have. Having managed to despatch Rangers to appease his fans Lawell is now getting twitchy at the falling attendances at Parkheid and is trying to expediate their return whilst making it look like those pesky SFL clubs. The voting structure will remain unchanged awaiting this eventuality and is inexplicably supported by Aberdeen (aka Stewart Milne). Meanwhile Sky are sitting back lapping it up and the game we all love will continue to self destruct? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted April 14, 2013 Report Share Posted April 14, 2013 Peter Lawwell in charge. Anyone shocked? You know the thing, I don't even blame Celtic for this mess, it's c***s that are running the other 11 clubs that are an absolute disgrace. i've got a feeling that when lawell and doncaster went to london last august to talk to sky they promised them reconstruction so they could guarantee the league wouldn't be finished in february three seasons in a row. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special aka Posted April 14, 2013 Report Share Posted April 14, 2013 i've got a feeling that when lawell and doncaster went to london last august to talk to sky they promised them reconstruction so they could guarantee the league wouldn't be finished in february three seasons in a row. And here we are in mid April and the League is yet to be won !!!! Sounds like more durty dealings than the back corridors of Westminster. Pissing the fans off is utter madness, as inevitably even the hardcore patrons will drift away - to be replaced by who ? Just what is there to encourage anyone to become a regular attender of football these days ? The product is poor, The gate prices are too high, Teams play each other too often, Stewarding/Policing is often heavy-handed, Stadiums are soulless and lack atmosphere, Irregular Kick-Off times, Ridiculous mid-week fixture scheduling/clashes, AND FANS APPEAR TO BE THE LEAST IMPORTANT ELEMENT IN THE THOUGHT PROCESS OF THE ADMINISTRATORS OF OUR BELOVED GAME. I say to Milne, Lawwell, Thompson, et all - you go for this ludicrous all or nothing proposal and you may well secure TV's filthy lucre and a new sponsor for a year or so but when the stands are empty and no-one wants to know anymore, we'll all be shouting WE TOLD YOU SO 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoshi-1991 Posted April 14, 2013 Report Share Posted April 14, 2013 I cant understand why they wont bring in a play off place. They want more excitment and the fans are all for the play offs, and it will generate more money if anything, whats the problem or am I missing something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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