CoF Posted February 9, 2013 Report Share Posted February 9, 2013 We're reaching a tipping point and I genuinely hope the game in scotland reaches a ground zero point where television fucks of and the game rebuilds organically. Absolutely, but I fear floating fans and potential new fans get their football fix every weekend with the endless number of games on TV. To follow a football team in Scotland is simply too much of a financial commitment. Until gate prices come down then any changes to our game (including the TV deal going tits up) will not make a difference to attendances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatcalf Posted February 9, 2013 Report Share Posted February 9, 2013 Absolutely, but I fear floating fans and potential new fans get their football fix every weekend with the endless number of games on TV. To follow a football team in Scotland is simply too much of a financial commitment. Until gate prices come down then any changes to our game (including the TV deal going tits up) will make a difference to attendances. True, I've argued for years now it's not the Old Firm buses leaving town that cost us fans, as there aren't that many Old Firm matchgoing fans from Motherwell now compared to years ago. Our biggest problem is the lazy arses who sit in the pub and watch the satellite feed of their particular OF team. Get TV to fuck, preferably with the OF in tow and we will have a meaningful league with better crowds paying less to watch home grown players we can relate to on a fraction of current salaries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewarkfanclub Posted February 12, 2013 Report Share Posted February 12, 2013 Article in the Herald today that hits the nail on the head for me. Every supporter from every club who agrees with bigger leagues need to apply more pressure. The arguments are here. http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/opinion/league-reform-why-bigger-is-better-for-all-our-teams.1360655944 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted February 12, 2013 Report Share Posted February 12, 2013 I wasn't able to attend the Well Society discussions, but my dad was and what he told me was presented is this: a) We have no league sponsor for next year, but a few people (and TV companies) are saying they are only interested if we change things up a bit b) the redistribution of funds is aimed, at least partly, to give more money to the lower league teams c) if passed, the new league structure would be in place for 3 years, after which time it's up for review d) the new proposals will get rid of the 11 - 1 voting requirement which, thanks to a couple of other clubs, is currently preventing any proposal to expand the current league e) the hope of our club is that once the voting system changes and the lower leagues get more money, then in 3 years time there will sufficient momentum to expand the top flight (and better funded lower league clubs to join), and the 11 - 1 won't be required to vote it through In this context I can understand where they are coming from (whether I agree with it or not - I'd near more hard facts to make a decision). My fear is that the game will take a major hit before the 3 years is up, and that the review doesn't take place at that time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wellfan1984 Posted February 12, 2013 Report Share Posted February 12, 2013 The 3 year thing is interesting. Funny enough this is just enough time for the Old Firm derby to become the big thing all over again. I very much doubt that the three year thing has anything to do with expanding the league further if it is TV that the current SPL is worried. Also can people confirm that it is all money being redistributed and not just second down - as if not how is this good for the game (good for Celtic aye but not the league) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Made Posted February 12, 2013 Report Share Posted February 12, 2013 Article in the Herald today that hits the nail on the head for me. Every supporter from every club who agrees with bigger leagues need to apply more pressure. The arguments are here. http://www.heraldsco...eams.1360655944 Reading that makes you wonder if that's why Sevco are worried about being in the bottom tier again. After all they'd come up against teams that could give them a game, especially as only twice a season would be classed as cup ties and the chance for the other stronger teams to make up any points they drop to them straight away. If 18 is good enough for the bottom league then it's just as good for a top league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatcalf Posted February 12, 2013 Report Share Posted February 12, 2013 Reading that makes you wonder if that's why Sevco are worried about being in the bottom tier again. After all they'd come up against teams that could give them a game, especially as only twice a season would be classed as cup ties and the chance for the other stronger teams to make up any points they drop to them straight away. If 18 is good enough for the bottom league then it's just as good for a top league. 18 is the only way, stop fucking about with our game and just get back to a simple league format, best team wins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pettywulliegrew-2 Posted February 12, 2013 Report Share Posted February 12, 2013 Have always thought the way foward for Scottish Football is a 16/18 premier /first division and regional North and South leagues. Have been loking through this thread, and seems to be a lot of people bickering over the tv deal money for and against it... IMHO without tv money many(most) Spl teams woud be looking at part time football....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tweed Posted February 12, 2013 Report Share Posted February 12, 2013 Think that is right. I always think fatcalf's vision, for me, is aspirational but realistically from the starting point we have would see several clubs heading the way of Third Lanark. We need to make a move to make these clubs more sustainable in the long term and the rhetoric I am hearing is promising - is it wide ranging enough? probably not, would we like more change sooner? of course but I think the steps being made are in the right direction but I still don't like this league splitting three ways in January. But a lot of the other stuff I like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juan Kerse Posted February 15, 2013 Report Share Posted February 15, 2013 Article in the Herald today that hits the nail on the head for me. Every supporter from every club who agrees with bigger leagues need to apply more pressure. The arguments are here. http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/opinion/league-reform-why-bigger-is-better-for-all-our-teams.1360655944 This is almost word for word what I have been saying about bigger leagues in every post I have ever made! Bigger league - MORE competition. Perfect and a fact! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roly Posted February 15, 2013 Report Share Posted February 15, 2013 Bigger league - MORE competition. Perfect and a fact! Any statistical proof of this? I'd wager the 10 team Swiss league, 12 Danish league and 12 team League of Ireland have seen as many (if not more) different champions over the past 20 years as any of "big 4" leagues. I'm not a big fan of anything bigger than 14 for Scotland. Aye we might see someone hang onto Celtics coattails for a month longer than usual but no more. Anyone who suggests that old firm dominance is down to league size is kidding themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juan Kerse Posted February 15, 2013 Report Share Posted February 15, 2013 Any statistical proof of this? I'd wager the 10 team Swiss league, 12 Danish league and 12 team League of Ireland have seen as many (if not more) different champions over the past 20 years as any of "big 4" leagues. I'm not a big fan of anything bigger than 14 for Scotland. Aye we might see someone hang onto Celtics coattails for a month longer than usual but no more. Anyone who suggests that old firm dominance is down to league size is kidding themselves. Swiss league has had two winners in the last 10 years, Basel and Zurich... I'll give you Denmark with 4 winners in 10 years and Ireland with 5. Absolutely no grounds for comparison though as these countriesay have a few bigger clubs the don't have two colossal monstrosities! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Diggle Posted February 15, 2013 Report Share Posted February 15, 2013 The problem isn't with the number of clubs in scotland it's with the lack of major religions 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roly Posted February 15, 2013 Report Share Posted February 15, 2013 Absolutely no grounds for comparison though as these countriesay have a few bigger clubs the don't have two colossal monstrosities! So what grounds are used for the comparison that suggests a bigger league equals more competition? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tottenmfc Posted February 15, 2013 Report Share Posted February 15, 2013 So what grounds are used for the comparison that suggests a bigger league equals more competition? Basic maths and common sense I would think 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roly Posted February 15, 2013 Report Share Posted February 15, 2013 Basic maths and common sense I would think Basic math suggests that instead of Celtic winning the league by 25 to 30 points, it might be more like 15 to 20. Common sense suggests that a team as far ahead of the competition as Celtic are will always win over the course of a league season regardless of how many different teams they pump. Meanwhile we have 9 points seperating 10 clubs. That would indicate a certain amount of competition. No? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatcalf Posted February 16, 2013 Report Share Posted February 16, 2013 Basic math suggests that instead of Celtic winning the league by 25 to 30 points, it might be more like 15 to 20. Common sense suggests that a team as far ahead of the competition as Celtic are will always win over the course of a league season regardless of how many different teams they pump. Meanwhile we have 9 points seperating 10 clubs. That would indicate a certain amount of competition. No? Proof we should throw Celtic out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Diggle Posted February 16, 2013 Report Share Posted February 16, 2013 I'm surprised their hasn't been much debate about Derek weir's comments at the AGM. Sounds like a right fuckin walloper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brazilian Posted February 16, 2013 Report Share Posted February 16, 2013 that'll be the feeling of why bother, Diggle your description is harsh , Id say he got away with it once and thought it was acceptable if its that fans let the club down, he made the same or very similar comment at the society meeting, I choose to let it slide as poor choice of words and lets face it, it could be argued til the league goes bust the sheer blooded mindedness on both sides of any argument over whos messed up, without the ability to actually interrogate whats actually happened to the attendences means the like of Derek Weir will never be a fans representative, hes a businessman taking commercial decisions just a shame it doesnt involve what provides a rather large slice of income and more importantly is the very seed of what the rest of the income is generated from the club said they were going to do a lot on the back of the vote, I've seen some of it some to fruition in the last month or so, paid for by fans who said the would contribute more I've seen the club report that there was an increase in season ticket sales after the vote, so again the fans did what the club wanted, now if that means PATG numbers are down and ticket income as a whole is down, not exactly something you can blame the fans for and then you look at attendences, have we sold more season tickets? if we have yet crowds are down, whos fault is it that people who bought tickets in advance, but cannot attend games and whats the problems there. many of us said we voted to keep us coming along, who were these fans who said they would come back , doubt they were even in the discussion, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roly Posted February 16, 2013 Report Share Posted February 16, 2013 I'm surprised their hasn't been much debate about Derek weir's comments at the AGM. Sounds like a right fuckin walloper Indeed. Seems to have made the same misinterpretaion of the summers goings on as many in the mainstream media have. Fans weren't saying the would be out in force if the club made the correct decision. Most people who were shouting from the rafters were already doing that season after season. We said we wouldn't be back if they got it wrong. That's a pretty big difference. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 16, 2013 Report Share Posted February 16, 2013 Basic maths and common sense I would think Given that I'm obviously a bit thick, please show the your workings for this basic maths and common sense, be very specific with examples please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finlay Posted February 16, 2013 Report Share Posted February 16, 2013 I missed this. DW stated Motherwell fans have let the Club down at the AGM? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lobey_Dosser Posted February 16, 2013 Report Share Posted February 16, 2013 Read on firpark corner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Diggle Posted February 16, 2013 Report Share Posted February 16, 2013 I paid in to the club 12 game. On the run up to that game I cannot recall anyone from the club rallying one iota of the support. Not even a challenge for punters to put heir money where their mouth was. I think we're looking for more vocal and positive directors Personally Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLip69 Posted February 16, 2013 Report Share Posted February 16, 2013 Basic maths tells you that if you are playing the OF 8 times a season as opposed to 4 times, then you are going to lose a lot more points to them and slip even further behind. The new system, 2 x 12 becoming 3 x 8, actually takes away automatic promotion and relegation, it gives the bottom 4 a second chance at avoiding relegation against, arguably, weaker clubs. Clubs made weaker by the SPL ringfencing all the TV cash and leaving the rest of Senior Scottish Football to rot. In improving our game the SPL has failed miserably. Any league that does not have automatic promotion and relegation isn't a league in it's truest sense. It's a lottery, and one I wont be buying a ticket for. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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