nethertonwellfan Posted February 1, 2013 Report Share Posted February 1, 2013 If true then that is really shocking to me. In a league as close as ours, outwith the old firm, budgeting for anything other than an 11th place finish and first round knockouts in the Cups is asking for trouble. There is no bloody way any club outwith the old firm can budget that way. We are in no position with our playing squad being so small and our small and dwindling fan base that we should be budgeting for so high in the league as I said that is financial suicide. I think that they believe that if you budget for it you can bring in players that will get you there. That leads to increased attendances because we are doing well although that hasn't worked. They will argue that because we budgeted that way we have finished in the top 6 more than not, got to a cup final and been in Europe 4 out of the last 5 years. Their strategy returned a profit of over 541k last season. To a degree they have a point BUT only becasue we have been a success on the park. When we don't sell a player and go out the cups early then you see what happens with the figures this year. It's a risky strategy and I don't like it either but having said that I wasn't complaining when I was getting on planes to Nancy, Bucharest, Odense etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well Well Posted February 1, 2013 Report Share Posted February 1, 2013 I thought Boyle used to say he always budgeted for 10th place and one cup quarter final. However, if the budget includes bonus payments for 3rd, compared to bonus payments for 11th offset against the prize money, I'd be interested to see the net difference. Its -£600,000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaag Posted February 1, 2013 Report Share Posted February 1, 2013 it's not gonna get any better and I suspect, if anything, it'll get significantly worse if they proceed with this lunacy that is league reconstruction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nethertonwellfan Posted February 1, 2013 Report Share Posted February 1, 2013 Any links to them saying it? I haven't and it would probably take me a while to find some but they have definitely said it. I have head it from Leann Dempster's mouth first hand during question and answer sessions. It is definitely club strategy and McCall has said those are has objectives each season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well Well Posted February 1, 2013 Report Share Posted February 1, 2013 I think that they believe that if you budget for it you can bring in players that will get you there. That leads to increased attendances because we are doing well although that hasn't worked. They will argue that because we budgeted that way we have finished in the top 6 more than not, got to a cup final and been in Europe 4 out of the last 5 years. Their strategy returned a profit of over 541k last season. To a degree they have a point BUT only becasue we have been a success on the park. When we don't sell a player and go out the cups early then you see what happens with the figures this year. It's a risky strategy and I don't like it either but having said that I wasn't complaining when I was getting on planes to Nancy, Bucharest, Odense etc. Aye, but it could lead to the demise of the team I support, so they can fuck right off with risk taking, I remember the last time we spent money to get us higher up the table and it almost cost us the club then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muzz Posted February 1, 2013 Report Share Posted February 1, 2013 The £600k loss dones't worry me at all. I'd be much more interested to see what the Balance Sheet says before making any judgement on the numbers. ETA - nothing on companies house yet for FY 11/12. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lobey_Dosser Posted February 1, 2013 Report Share Posted February 1, 2013 Such poor management, partly the reason why I haven't invested in the Society. Do we seriously budget for a top 6 finish. For a club with no means of credit, that fucking baffles me. After making a profit of £540k in 2010/11, why did we invest the full profit the next season? Surely we should have put at least £250k aside to enhance cashflow fir future years and cut the squad accordingly. And if money is so tight, how is it possible for the club to have such a timid approach to cup games? And why did we shite out the battle for 2nd place when an extra £900k was up for grabs? Dark times ahead... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJC_MKI Posted February 1, 2013 Report Share Posted February 1, 2013 This makes for worrying reading indeed. If we are posting such a loss from a season in which we've finished 3rd and qualified for Europe then what kind of mess are we going to be in the next time we fail to make the top six? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted February 1, 2013 Report Share Posted February 1, 2013 After making a profit of £540k in 2010/11, why did we invest the full profit the next season? Surely we should have put at least £250k aside to enhance cashflow fir future years and cut the squad accordingly. And if money is so tight, how is it possible for the club to have such a timid approach to cup games? And why did we shite out the battle for 2nd place when an extra £900k was up for grabs? you can't be too hung up on 12 month accounting periods. we haven't exactly been throwing cash around since the cup final and the extra investment paid off last season with the high league placing and the european fixtures. i don't imagine that many of the players have the long term financial health of the club at the front of their mind when they step onto the park. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wellfan1984 Posted February 1, 2013 Report Share Posted February 1, 2013 This makes for worrying reading indeed. If we are posting such a loss from a season in which we've finished 3rd and qualified for Europe then what kind of mess are we going to be in the next time we fail to make the top six? Depends on the Bonus System in place. Was the one that covered these accounts win and place, place, or just win. ending of in the bottom six won't cost as much as finish third with a large - for us - win total. No figures as yet of other extraordinary costs (legal fees) either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special aka Posted February 1, 2013 Report Share Posted February 1, 2013 imho the game in this country is fukked, league restructure or not, and if we cannae post a profit in the season after appearing in a national Cup Final and qualifying for the Champs League then we're fukked too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEWELL Posted February 1, 2013 Report Share Posted February 1, 2013 Maybe a good incentive for us next season not to bow out both cups in such a feeble manner as a decent run would've seen us fine. <_> 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special aka Posted February 1, 2013 Report Share Posted February 1, 2013 Maybe a good incentive for us next season not to bow out both cups in such a feeble manner as a decent run would've seen us fine. Should fine the players 500k for their Ibrox performance 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted February 1, 2013 Report Share Posted February 1, 2013 Should fine the players 500k for their Ibrox performance If we had the quality of players that could afford that fine, we wouldn't have lost at Ibrox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coolhandluc Posted February 1, 2013 Report Share Posted February 1, 2013 1500 fans to offset loss isn't too big an ask is it? They are out there as the cup final and European games showed. It's galling the crowds are so poor despite the relative success and league placings we've had over recent years. Although I do appreciate the many reasons people have for not being able to attend on a regular basis. another 1500 fans per game is a massive ask from an average gate of what, 4 to 5000 ? That's like asking a business to record a 30% increase in revenue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tommycoyne Posted February 1, 2013 Report Share Posted February 1, 2013 Ya bezzers point is correct. I and 5 of my mates from as far north as sheep country and also edinburgh, all bought seadon tickets for this season, for the first time as we always used to pay at the gate. We all decided to put our money in at the start of the season to try and abate the loss of the h**s scenario. So , although gates nay be down, I still think we have more" paying" fans than disclosed. Also I still think the official attendance at home ganes is a lot less than the actual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted February 1, 2013 Report Share Posted February 1, 2013 Maybe a good incentive for us next season not to bow out both cups in such a feeble manner as a decent run would've seen us fine. <_> Yeah, because we would have had no incentive otherwise... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
postiejim Posted February 2, 2013 Report Share Posted February 2, 2013 Administration ahead ?,at least in the 18 team division we get tae play Rangers and make some extra cash. Let's be honest though guys football in Scotland is finished. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy_P Posted February 2, 2013 Report Share Posted February 2, 2013 I don't believe the game is finished. But I do believe that it's going to be a different animal in say 10-15 years time from what it is now. Someone mentioned, in another thread I think, about how the English leagues work. For me the worst possible comparison you can make is with the English leagues. You are simply not comparing like for like. Our top flight, since the establishment of the SPL has been driven trying to follow the same money chasing model of the English Premier League and we've suffered enormously for it. We had Celtic and Rangers, who spent big on a ego trip so that they might continue to feel the equals of English sides and as clubs we all did the same to try to compete with the Old Firm. Throw in expensive and costly rules like having to have 10,000 seats and undersoil heating in place as well as the wages that were required to fund this attempt to keep up the with Joneses idea and we're all financially reaping what we've sown. Hell fucking mend us all! But. I do think over time there will be a shift back to something more akin to days pre-Sounness and pre-SPL where we become less reliant on TV money, and are generally more financially prudent as clubs. I think we'll be pushed even further to the margins as the English game continues to get more and more airtime on the likes of SKY be that through live games, as live or highlights packages and TV deals that do come our way will continue to be scaled back in revenue. Clubs are already seen to scale back on what they are offering players, cutting squad sizes and trying to go with more youngsters too. In time there will be a more realistic balance. There are also some glimmers of hope in talk of relaxing standing regulations, considering things like having a beer at the game etc. that will make attending a game a bit more enjoyable than perhaps it can be at times now. It will require bold thinking, more fan input on boardrooms and the removal of people like Doncaster for whom their whole raison d'être in Scottish football is that fix of TV money. We need to look beyond that. But if we can slowly edge to the point where clubs don't feel they have to overcharge at the gate and can offer realistic admission prices, offer supporters a choice of standing or sitting, the opportunity to have a beer if they wish all whilst watching a team whilst of not perhaps the standing of former years but one made up heavily of aspirational young Scots and I think the game will certainly have a future. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewarkfanclub Posted February 2, 2013 Report Share Posted February 2, 2013 I don't believe the game is finished. But I do believe that it's going to be a different animal in say 10-15 years time from what it is now. Someone mentioned, in another thread I think, about how the English leagues work. For me the worst possible comparison you can make is with the English leagues. You are simply not comparing like for like. Our top flight, since the establishment of the SPL has been driven trying to follow the same money chasing model of the English Premier League and we've suffered enormously for it. We had Celtic and Rangers, who spent big on a ego trip so that they might continue to feel the equals of English sides and as clubs we all did the same to try to compete with the Old Firm. Throw in expensive and costly rules like having to have 10,000 seats and undersoil heating in place as well as the wages that were required to fund this attempt to keep up the with Joneses idea and we're all financially reaping what we've sown. Hell fucking mend us all! But. I do think over time there will be a shift back to something more akin to days pre-Sounness and pre-SPL where we become less reliant on TV money, and are generally more financially prudent as clubs. I think we'll be pushed even further to the margins as the English game continues to get more and more airtime on the likes of SKY be that through live games, as live or highlights packages and TV deals that do come our way will continue to be scaled back in revenue. Clubs are already seen to scale back on what they are offering players, cutting squad sizes and trying to go with more youngsters too. In time there will be a more realistic balance. There are also some glimmers of hope in talk of relaxing standing regulations, considering things like having a beer at the game etc. that will make attending a game a bit more enjoyable than perhaps it can be at times now. It will require bold thinking, more fan input on boardrooms and the removal of people like Doncaster for whom their whole raison d'être in Scottish football is that fix of TV money. We need to look beyond that. But if we can slowly edge to the point where clubs don't feel they have to overcharge at the gate and can offer realistic admission prices, offer supporters a choice of standing or sitting, the opportunity to have a beer if they wish all whilst watching a team whilst of not perhaps the standing of former years but one made up heavily of aspirational young Scots and I think the game will certainly have a future. Post of the year so far for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMc Posted February 2, 2013 Report Share Posted February 2, 2013 I don't believe the game is finished. But I do believe that it's going to be a different animal in say 10-15 years time from what it is now. Someone mentioned, in another thread I think, about how the English leagues work. For me the worst possible comparison you can make is with the English leagues. You are simply not comparing like for like. Our top flight, since the establishment of the SPL has been driven trying to follow the same money chasing model of the English Premier League and we've suffered enormously for it. We had Celtic and Rangers, who spent big on a ego trip so that they might continue to feel the equals of English sides and as clubs we all did the same to try to compete with the Old Firm. Throw in expensive and costly rules like having to have 10,000 seats and undersoil heating in place as well as the wages that were required to fund this attempt to keep up the with Joneses idea and we're all financially reaping what we've sown. Hell fucking mend us all! But. I do think over time there will be a shift back to something more akin to days pre-Sounness and pre-SPL where we become less reliant on TV money, and are generally more financially prudent as clubs. I think we'll be pushed even further to the margins as the English game continues to get more and more airtime on the likes of SKY be that through live games, as live or highlights packages and TV deals that do come our way will continue to be scaled back in revenue. Clubs are already seen to scale back on what they are offering players, cutting squad sizes and trying to go with more youngsters too. In time there will be a more realistic balance. There are also some glimmers of hope in talk of relaxing standing regulations, considering things like having a beer at the game etc. that will make attending a game a bit more enjoyable than perhaps it can be at times now. It will require bold thinking, more fan input on boardrooms and the removal of people like Doncaster for whom their whole raison d'être in Scottish football is that fix of TV money. We need to look beyond that. But if we can slowly edge to the point where clubs don't feel they have to overcharge at the gate and can offer realistic admission prices, offer supporters a choice of standing or sitting, the opportunity to have a beer if they wish all whilst watching a team whilst of not perhaps the standing of former years but one made up heavily of aspirational young Scots and I think the game will certainly have a future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well Well Posted February 2, 2013 Report Share Posted February 2, 2013 Would love all that to happen but I can't think beyond the idiot fans who will ruin it for the rest of us. Those that can't handle a couple of beers and start boxing. They get the jail and then its all scrapped again by the authorities. Revenue stream gone because of the minority idiots. For whatever reason Rugby fans enjoy this without the idiots and have no issues but it seems football cannot follow. Dunno what we can do to change that. The idea of teams relying on players that are born and bred at the club is brilliant and I have always felt more affinity to those players than the loans and 2 year passing through players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Diggle Posted February 2, 2013 Report Share Posted February 2, 2013 I don't believe the game is finished. But I do believe that it's going to be a different animal in say 10-15 years time from what it is now. Someone mentioned, in another thread I think, about how the English leagues work. For me the worst possible comparison you can make is with the English leagues. You are simply not comparing like for like. Our top flight, since the establishment of the SPL has been driven trying to follow the same money chasing model of the English Premier League and we've suffered enormously for it. We had Celtic and Rangers, who spent big on a ego trip so that they might continue to feel the equals of English sides and as clubs we all did the same to try to compete with the Old Firm. Throw in expensive and costly rules like having to have 10,000 seats and undersoil heating in place as well as the wages that were required to fund this attempt to keep up the with Joneses idea and we're all financially reaping what we've sown. Hell fucking mend us all! But. I do think over time there will be a shift back to something more akin to days pre-Sounness and pre-SPL where we become less reliant on TV money, and are generally more financially prudent as clubs. I think we'll be pushed even further to the margins as the English game continues to get more and more airtime on the likes of SKY be that through live games, as live or highlights packages and TV deals that do come our way will continue to be scaled back in revenue. Clubs are already seen to scale back on what they are offering players, cutting squad sizes and trying to go with more youngsters too. In time there will be a more realistic balance. There are also some glimmers of hope in talk of relaxing standing regulations, considering things like having a beer at the game etc. that will make attending a game a bit more enjoyable than perhaps it can be at times now. It will require bold thinking, more fan input on boardrooms and the removal of people like Doncaster for whom their whole raison d'être in Scottish football is that fix of TV money. We need to look beyond that. But if we can slowly edge to the point where clubs don't feel they have to overcharge at the gate and can offer realistic admission prices, offer supporters a choice of standing or sitting, the opportunity to have a beer if they wish all whilst watching a team whilst of not perhaps the standing of former years but one made up heavily of aspirational young Scots and I think the game will certainly have a future. Tremendous post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatcalf Posted February 2, 2013 Report Share Posted February 2, 2013 Would love all that to happen but I can't think beyond the idiot fans who will ruin it for the rest of us. Those that can't handle a couple of beers and start boxing. They get the jail and then its all scrapped again by the authorities. Revenue stream gone because of the minority idiots. Easily sorted, deny Old Firm fans the same luxury, after all it was them that got drink banned in the first place. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Diggle Posted February 2, 2013 Report Share Posted February 2, 2013 Easily sorted, deny Old Firm fans the same luxury, after all it was them that got drink banned in the first place. Yeah, an oft forgotten point Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.