daver Posted February 9, 2013 Report Share Posted February 9, 2013 Without going in to the rights and wrongs of today's red cards, I've always wondered why some people clap players as they leave the park, even if they've obviously let themself and the team down. It seemed to cause a few heated discussions today but it's certainly not a new phenomenon. I'm not saying you should shout abuse but why clap them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbcmfc Posted February 9, 2013 Report Share Posted February 9, 2013 I agree, and today was a perfect example, being discussed in match and Keith lasley threads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East_Stand_Al Posted February 9, 2013 Report Share Posted February 9, 2013 Sometimes it's a show of defiance to the opposing fans who are giving your player pelters for whatever foul has earned him the early bath. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy_P Posted February 9, 2013 Report Share Posted February 9, 2013 I suppose its one of these each to their own things isn't it? And that's only going to be clouded further by other variables like the timing of the sending off, the scoreline, was it justified, has the ref been conned etc. I mean I can understand why some fellow fans feel Lasley let the team down with his sending off being club captain, senior pro at the club and all didn't applaud. But by the same token, I can understand why some fellow fans, given Lasley was up there for candidate for man of the match, before his indiscretion would want to have marked that endeavour up until that point. But not really an issue worth getting too hot up about I suppose. Right or wrong, just shout at the bastard in the black who sent them off 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatcalf Posted February 9, 2013 Report Share Posted February 9, 2013 I suppose its one of these each to their own things isn't it? And that's only going to be clouded further by other variables like the timing of the sending off, the scoreline, was it justified, has the ref been conned etc. I mean I can understand why some fellow fans feel Lasley let the team down with his sending off being club captain, senior pro at the club and all didn't applaud. But by the same token, I can understand why some fellow fans, given Lasley was up there for candidate for man of the match, before his indiscretion would want to have marked that endeavour up until that point. But not really an issue worth getting too hot up about I suppose. Right or wrong, just shout at the bastard in the black who sent them off This Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbcmfc Posted February 9, 2013 Report Share Posted February 9, 2013 They were both the sort that you couldn't even blame the ref! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stv Posted February 10, 2013 Report Share Posted February 10, 2013 Applaude the captain for getting his stupid arse sent off with mins to go and getting banned for one of our biggest games of the season next week ? The wallies around me who were clappin him off need to get a grip . He let us down with a mad moment he should know better 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daver Posted February 10, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2013 To be honest, I was thinking more in general terms rather than yesterday's game as those red cards were being talked about elsewhere and were unusual in that no-one (apart from MFCTV) was disputing the decisions. On a very small number of occassions I have applauded players off the park but only when I have felt they were on the end of a poor decision and didn't merit the red card. If they deserve the red card then they've let the team down and don't deserve applause for it. You might try to encourage a player who has missed a penalty or made a mistake, bu that's mainly to try and lift them as they still have a part to play - a player being sent off has nothing more to contribute, other than a suspension. Each to their own, but I'm just puzzled by it and am genuinely interested why some would choose to cheer a player who has done his team a disservice. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tweed Posted February 10, 2013 Report Share Posted February 10, 2013 If they've been unlucky/diddled by a poor ref or just done by a bit of skill to get a second yellow or whatever then aye, fair enough - if they've lost the heid and done something mental they'll be getting the silent treatment from me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'Wellfan 2k7 Posted February 10, 2013 Report Share Posted February 10, 2013 For me it's circumstantial. A good example of one good and one bad is the 4-1 defeat to Dunfermline a few years ago. Mark Reynolds was sent off for an unlucky bounce up onto his arm and as the last man he had to go. Bt moments later, Scott McDonald seemed to celebrate a penalty goal by taking on the Left back. I applaud Reynolds, I was disgusted at McDonald. His last ever game for us too? Anyway, some are good red cards and some are bad. Some receive claps, others don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelvinBragg Posted February 10, 2013 Report Share Posted February 10, 2013 Tweed hits the nail on the head. A harsh red card generally sees the player applauded, probably more as a gesture of solidarity. A stupid deserved one doesn't merit applause. But as others have stated, not an issue that I'd get my knickers in a knot about... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEWELL Posted February 10, 2013 Report Share Posted February 10, 2013 Agree with that i wasn't there yesterday but from what i've read both players were idiots so no way would i applaud that. <_> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJC_MKI Posted February 10, 2013 Report Share Posted February 10, 2013 Sometimes it's a show of defiance to the opposing fans who are giving your player pelters for whatever foul has earned him the early bath. Nine times out of ten that is exactly what the applause is for...defiance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'Wellfan 2k7 Posted February 10, 2013 Report Share Posted February 10, 2013 I just watched the lasley incident and I have to say, on another day it would have only been a yellow. Think the linesmans reaction would have influenced to decision of the ref. Kerrs was a little more reckless and is a lesson learnt rather than anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Diggle Posted February 10, 2013 Report Share Posted February 10, 2013 I just watched the lasley incident and I have to say, on another day it would have only been a yellow. Think the linesmans reaction would have influenced to decision of the ref. Kerrs was a little more reckless and is a lesson learnt rather than anything. Most would see the two incidents the other way round. Lasley has no complaints Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pingu Posted February 10, 2013 Report Share Posted February 10, 2013 Ref got both straight reds spot on. Two ridiculous, petulant, dangerous challenges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joeboy Posted February 11, 2013 Report Share Posted February 11, 2013 Apart from if the player didn't deserve to be sent off, I'd also applaud a player if him getting sent off was beneficial to the team. See Page's red card against Hibs last season for an example of that. Other than that, naw! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daver Posted February 12, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2013 Hadn't really thought of that - taking one for the team. Yeah, I can see there being circumstances where I would applaud the player being sent off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TigerWoodsMFC Posted February 12, 2013 Report Share Posted February 12, 2013 9 times out of 10, I'd applaud a player if he was sent off for a professional foul...unless it was really cynical like Schumacher's attempted murder at the 1982 World Cup (ironically he didn't get red carded for it....) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PennsylvaniaDosser Posted February 12, 2013 Report Share Posted February 12, 2013 Apart from if the player didn't deserve to be sent off, I'd also applaud a player if him getting sent off was beneficial to the team. See Page's red card against Hibs last season for an example of that. Other than that, naw! I agree with the above sentiment concerning a professional foul red card, assuming no intent to injure. But the last thought got me thinking. There seems to be a sort of philosophical question at play: Does being sent off negate everything the player did prior to being sent off? The question could be phrased mathematically: (Player's Performance + Game Situation) > (Being Sent Off + Game Situation)? If Yes, applause is warranted. If No, then no applause should be given. Three examples. In each one, the player is sent off in the 70th minute for a second yellow card. Prior to the sending off, (1) Player A has scored two goals. Team is leading 2-0 at the time of sending off. (2) Player B has been at fault for poor man-marking, leading to a goal conceded, as well as conceding a free kick from which the opposition scored. Team is trailing 0-2 at the time of sending off. (3) Player C has assisted on a goal and been at fault for conceding a goal. Game is tied 1-1 at time of sending off. Player A should be applauded, even though being sent off leads to a more difficult final 20 minutes for the team. Player B will be mercilessly booed off the pitch due to his performance being a complete disaster compounded by the sending off. Player C's situation is where debate will come in concerning the formula, since the formula calls for subjective judgment: for some it may be enough to applaud; for others it may not be. The formula works even in the case of a professional foul red card; that player's performance could be greater than the being sent off. If it ends up saving a goal in a close or tied game, then it leads to points for the team. That should be applauded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoF Posted February 13, 2013 Report Share Posted February 13, 2013 I agree with the above sentiment concerning a professional foul red card, assuming no intent to injure. But the last thought got me thinking. There seems to be a sort of philosophical question at play: Does being sent off negate everything the player did prior to being sent off? The question could be phrased mathematically: (Player's Performance + Game Situation) > (Being Sent Off + Game Situation)? If Yes, applause is warranted. If No, then no applause should be given. Three examples. In each one, the player is sent off in the 70th minute for a second yellow card. Prior to the sending off, (1) Player A has scored two goals. Team is leading 2-0 at the time of sending off. (2) Player B has been at fault for poor man-marking, leading to a goal conceded, as well as conceding a free kick from which the opposition scored. Team is trailing 0-2 at the time of sending off. (3) Player C has assisted on a goal and been at fault for conceding a goal. Game is tied 1-1 at time of sending off. Player A should be applauded, even though being sent off leads to a more difficult final 20 minutes for the team. Player B will be mercilessly booed off the pitch due to his performance being a complete disaster compounded by the sending off. Player C's situation is where debate will come in concerning the formula, since the formula calls for subjective judgment: for some it may be enough to applaud; for others it may not be. The formula works even in the case of a professional foul red card; that player's performance could be greater than the being sent off. If it ends up saving a goal in a close or tied game, then it leads to points for the team. That should be applauded. Fitba fans + mathematical logic ≠ reality Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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