Richie Posted March 9, 2013 Report Share Posted March 9, 2013 It could be done in two steps due to the voting... Step 1: Get Celtic on board to gain majority to redistribute 2nd down. Step 2: Once thats done, Celtic are out on their own and cannot block a further vote to redistribute 1st. Unfortunately dont think clubs have the brains or bottle to do that though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewarkfanclub Posted March 9, 2013 Report Share Posted March 9, 2013 If the 11 diddy clubs stuck together they could have voted through a much fairer deal. So the question is WHAT THE HELL ARE THEY THINKING ABOUT. Everyone gets less money in this situation, including Celtic and those who get their share increased by 0.5%. But thats because the value of the deal has gone down as a result of us refusing entry to the new club. However Celtic are the biggest winners as they maintain their % of an already much bigger pot when in fact they were in the strongest position to take some of the hit. Clearly if/when reconstruction comes along we could see the money for distribution to the lower leagues coming out of Celtics share, but I wont hold my breath. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfc88 Posted March 9, 2013 Report Share Posted March 9, 2013 Yes, that was my point too. We need to be careful to use valid arguments when making a point and not mis-represent the facts. I know this is an Internet forum but if we are passionate about an issue we should get it right. For me the thing that is missing is the confirmation of what will happen in subsequent years. If this is a first step to a fairer distribution then I can see some of the logic to it, most teams will do better out of this set up than they would from the previous one. How much of our anger is because we have a shot at second place. Are Dundee fans angry? None of this addresses the issue that the communication has been poor on this but I am prepared to give our club the benefit of the doubt that they have a better view of the bigger picture than I do. I for one am pissed off that Celtic are still pulling the strings even without their pals around to team up with. The gap hasn't widened as such, but the distribution of money is still heavily in their favour. If the spl are going to change cash distribution then do it properly ffs. Why why why basically keep it as it has been - in favour of the big team - a structure that is slowly but surely killing the game off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewarkfanclub Posted March 9, 2013 Report Share Posted March 9, 2013 I for one am pissed off that Celtic are still pulling the strings even without their pals around to team up with. The gap hasn't widened as such, but the distribution of money is still heavily in their favour. If the spl are going to change cash distribution then do it properly ffs. Why why why basically keep it as it has been - in favour of the big team - a structure that is slowly but surely killing the game off. It seems Turkeys DO vote for xmas after all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Diggle Posted March 9, 2013 Report Share Posted March 9, 2013 We've said it before. Death can sometimes be merciful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoojy Posted March 9, 2013 Report Share Posted March 9, 2013 A couple more tweets from stvgrant Clearly all SPL clubs bar Celtic believed taking a little more guaranteed cash was better for all than gambling on second spot. This answers vote question. RT @GordonWaddell:@STVGrant also the vote was technically 11-0 - Celtic abstained. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
numpty Posted March 9, 2013 Report Share Posted March 9, 2013 One theory that struck me last night: wouldn't be surprised if Celtic had (perhaps stupidly, but let's face it, not unreasonably) already budgeted for finishing first this season, but no other time in their right mind would have budgeted for finishing second. So everybody would have been happy for second place to take the hit, while the amount that everybody *had* budgeted for was increased (or, in Celtic's case, stayed the same). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NottsMFC Posted March 9, 2013 Report Share Posted March 9, 2013 Thing is, we've heard lots of sound bites coming from Celtic in the past few months about improving Scottish Football etc, but the reality is they really don't give a toss & are only interested in themselves. Their goal is probably to do everything possible to make them as strong as possible before the return of their partners in crime, the rest of the clubs are an irrelevance to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roly Posted March 9, 2013 Report Share Posted March 9, 2013 A couple more tweets from stvgrant Clearly all SPL clubs bar Celtic believed taking a little more guaranteed cash was better for all than gambling on second spot. This answers vote question. RT @GordonWaddell:@STVGrant also the vote was technically 11-0 - Celtic abstained. Surely that would have given all the 11 clubs carte blanche to adjust the prize fund for 1st too. It doesn't make sense that they would pass up on that opportunity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KirkySuperSub Posted March 9, 2013 Report Share Posted March 9, 2013 I'm guessing MFC's spin doctors have no intention of even trying to prepare an explanation for this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelman1991 Posted March 9, 2013 Report Share Posted March 9, 2013 The fact Celtic abstained makes this vote all the more absurd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NottsMFC Posted March 9, 2013 Report Share Posted March 9, 2013 The fact Celtic abstained makes this vote all the more absurd My guess is there would have been debate beforehand where Celtic point blank refused to accept any drop in percentage of 1st place. The vote would then have been only on redistributing 2-12, so not surprised they abstained as it did not effect them anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Diggle Posted March 9, 2013 Report Share Posted March 9, 2013 I'm guessing MFC's spin doctors have no intention of even trying to prepare an explanation for this. I'm getting the impression that they hate the level of scrutiny they are currently under. And have a problem with the main consensus views that we have as a support and would rather not respond to any of it if they could get away with it 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GazzyB Posted March 9, 2013 Report Share Posted March 9, 2013 I'm guessing MFC's spin doctors have no intention of even trying to prepare an explanation for this. Are board are clearly incompetent, but surely they're not so incompetent that they won't at least TRY and explain this!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted March 9, 2013 Report Share Posted March 9, 2013 Are board are clearly incompetent, but surely they're not so incompetent that they won't at least TRY and explain this!? We have a financially stable club who are going through one of the most successful periods in their history. And while I'm not defending them on this issue, all this "board is incompetent" stuff is clearly not true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatcalf Posted March 9, 2013 Report Share Posted March 9, 2013 Simple answer is for us to keep on asking the questions. I saw this possibility as part of the Well Society bigger picutre, we can, indeed have to, keep asking the questions we wouldn't normally ge answers to, and if we draw a blank then we can use the Society to oust those who wish to keep us in the dark. USe the power the Society brings 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well_Jaggy Posted March 9, 2013 Report Share Posted March 9, 2013 I directly asked the club via twitter which way they voted on the issue, but they did not respond. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewarkfanclub Posted March 9, 2013 Report Share Posted March 9, 2013 It has been reported as an 11-0 vote with Celtic abstaining so surely we know which way they voted? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Grew Posted March 9, 2013 Report Share Posted March 9, 2013 Just another act in the long running farce that is Scottish football. As if it should come as any surprise but the fans of the non-OF clubs are getting right royally f*cked over. Fan ownership? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted March 9, 2013 Report Share Posted March 9, 2013 I don't understand what you're all greetin' about. You're complaining that Celtic are differentiated to the rest of the teams in the SPL? Isn't that what we want? Look around you. We've got people pleased that Ross County defeated Celtic today. People can twist it any way they like to convince themselves but there is no way, and I mean no way, that Ross County winning today benefits us. They are our rivals for the highest league position that we can realistically achieve right now. They are now just two points behind us. However the SPL carve up the winnings, the higher up the league a team finishes, the more prize money they win. Yet, somehow, none of that matters because Celtic lost? Another of our rivals, ICT, took points off Dundee today. Are we going to congratulate Terry Butcher's team? No? What's the difference? We had a thread just a couple of weeks ago asking how many of our supporters would trade our victory over Inverness for a win over Celtic. To quote the opening post of that thread, "It can't be overstated how massive yesterday's win was for us, not only in the chase for 2nd place but in the chase for the huge jump in prize money which I imagine could give us complete financial stability for next season." Why would we even contemplate swapping that for a win against Neil Lennon's lot? Why would we even remotely consider the idea of lessening the vast gap between ourselves and Celtic by three points at the cost dropping below Inverness (as the table currently stands)? Every single time a team defeats Celtic or Rangers, the Shoutbox is updated with cries of "They just beat Rangers/Celtic, why can't we?" followed by "Oh, we'll never beat Rangers/Celtic" and so on and so on rather than talking about our own team's game played against a non-Old Firm team that very day! Go look in the Other Football section. There's a thread about Dunfermline's perilous financial state. There's a thread about Dundee United's manager leaving. There's a thread about Hearts' manager being dismissed. There's a thread about the controversy surrounding a Hibs player's racist tweets. There's a thread about whether it's okay to refer to Rangers as h**s or not. Take a guess which one has the most posts attributed to it. We are still clinging on to what surely every Motherwell fan must recognise as a successful era in our history with cup finals, European adventures, high league placings. Despite that, all some people really seem to care about is reveling in any sort of difficulty or obstacle that Rangers or Celtic find themselves in. I absolutely and wholeheartedly agree that Celtic should be no different to any other club in Scotland. Maybe we should all try to follow our own advice... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
decorator Posted March 9, 2013 Report Share Posted March 9, 2013 if we dont finish 2nd or 3rd im not happy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texanwellfan Posted March 9, 2013 Report Share Posted March 9, 2013 To illustrate the point, I think if they went back and took money off of Celtic and redistributed among places 3 to 12 and left 2nd place alone now everyone ( except maybe Celtic ) would be happy? Right? The goal should be trying to make the other teams get stronger to compete with Celtic. This redistribution has not done that in anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoF Posted March 10, 2013 Report Share Posted March 10, 2013 I don't understand what you're all greetin' about. You're complaining that Celtic are differentiated to the rest of the teams in the SPL? Isn't that what we want? Look around you. There is a difference between taking some small pleasure in their defeat (particularly when 2nd place is still in our hands) and questioning an aspect of the league setup which serves only to compound the very thing that is wrong with Scottish football. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoF Posted March 10, 2013 Report Share Posted March 10, 2013 One theory that struck me last night: wouldn't be surprised if Celtic had (perhaps stupidly, but let's face it, not unreasonably) already budgeted for finishing first this season, but no other time in their right mind would have budgeted for finishing second. So everybody would have been happy for second place to take the hit, while the amount that everybody *had* budgeted for was increased (or, in Celtic's case, stayed the same). See the more I think about it the more I think you are right. It's not a stretch of the imagination to think the 11 clubs who would have been fighting for second got together not long into the season and decided it was more sensible to spread the wealth of second spot through the entire league to soften the blow of not having Rangers here, rather than one team get a big payday while the rest struggle. Celtic would have said they don't give a fuck what happens to second place and abstained from the vote. We might ask why they didn't pursue a complete redistribution? I can only imagine that Celtic, having set their budget this year, would have mounted a legal challenge which they would probably have won. So, what on the surface might seem like a baffling decision is actually a sensible financial move by the 11 clubs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuwell Posted March 10, 2013 Report Share Posted March 10, 2013 If the above is correct then why not announce that it has been done and give the reason behind the decision rather than just slip it in? I hope you are correct but if it is then its very poor management not to explain it as such. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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