League Re-Construction

[weeyin]

Nonsense. They can re-distribute with what they have in fact they are THIS season with what we have. It is not doable because Celtic don't want to do it without a little more money.

 

If it was just Celtic, all it would take is the other 11 clubs to vote it through regardless.

[Lobey_Dosser]

Pleased with today's outcome but I do wonder what is round the corner. Will St Mirren play a lead role in SPL2?

[Bop]

Nonsense. They can re-distribute with what they have in fact they are THIS season with what we have. It is not doable because Celtic don't want to do it without a little more money.

 

I should have said that I don't think what ive posted is correct, but it is the official line.

[Juan Kerse]

But as a compromise position you could split after two rounds of games giving you 37 fixtures

Still playing half the teams 4 times a season

 

Top '8' teams Still having to face off against Celtic 4 times = less competition at the top

 

Top '8' teams still facing each other 4 times = less competition at the top

 

And while regionalised groups in the league cup isnt ideal it IS an extra 6 games and if the first few 4 rounds are Sat/Wed at the start if the seaoson crowds will be alright as folks are keen/excited/good weather etc...

 

That would give most clubs 36 guaraneed games plus 4 OF games.

 

Why not? Surely a decent bet?

[Steve Diggle]

Still playing half the teams 4 times a season

 

Top '8' teams Still having to face off against Celtic 4 times = less competition at the top

 

Top '8' teams still facing each other 4 times = less competition at the top

 

And while regionalised groups in the league cup isnt ideal it IS an extra 6 games and if the first few 4 rounds are Sat/Wed at the start if the seaoson crowds will be alright as folks are keen/excited/good weather etc...

 

That would give most clubs 36 guaraneed games plus 4 OF games.

 

Why not? Surely a decent bet?

 

No you'd play teams a maximum 3 times.

 

One round of 15 games at home

One round of 15 games away

Giving you 2 games vs everybody

7 after the split

Giving you 3 games with the teams in your half of the split.

 

A compromise between the majority fans wish of 2 and the OF centric ideal of 4

[Juan Kerse]

Fair enough, better. Won't fly though due to the unfairness of home/away - for the OF games that is.

[weeyin]

Any concept of a league where teams don't play each other the same number of times, where there is a split, and where you can end up playing more games away than at home, is just mental.

 

The fact that we are even proposing it shows what a state our game is in.

[Steve Diggle]

Any concept of a league where teams don't play each other the same number of times, where there is a split, and where you can end up playing more games away than at home, is just mental.

 

The fact that we are even proposing it shows what a state our game is in.

 

Agreed

 

Hence the term compromise

[Haggischomper]

Mental is certainly one word. Shite is another

[Juan Kerse]

Aye but it is a culture thing Weeyin. We both know that the MLB has lopsided leagues with teams playing some teams 3 times and some 12 or more!! How's it fair that Oakland for example played the previous and soon to be champions Giants 3 times but their division rivals didn't play them at all? But, correct me if I'm wrong here, the fans just get on with it.

 

If the whole thing is about OF, and we know it is we might as well split into 2 'conferences' of 16, an OF in each give us all 2x15 that we want and let them play each other 4/5/6/12 times in 'inter league' play and add the points to the table. Ok the numbers there are slight facitious buy to make it actually work you could have 4 of them OF games and give us all a 'derby' or similar in 'interleague' play.

 

Daft I know but just as daft as a split or 8-8-8!!

[weeyin]

Aye but it is a culture thing Weeyin. We both know that the MLB has lopsided leagues with teams playing some teams 3 times and some 12 or more!! How's it fair that Oakland for example played the previous and soon to be champions Giants 3 times but their division rivals didn't play them at all? But, correct me if I'm wrong here, the fans just get on with it.

 

If the whole thing is about OF, and we know it is we might as well split into 2 'conferences' of 16, an OF in each give us all 2x15 that we want and let them play each other 4/5/6/12 times in 'inter league' play and add the points to the table. Ok the numbers there are slight facitious buy to make it actually work you could have 4 of them OF games and give us all a 'derby' or similar in 'interleague' play.

 

Daft I know but just as daft as a split or 8-8-8!!

 

 

MLB and NFL are supposedly handicapped, but for me it's irrelevant to this discussion as they exist purely to serve the playoffs and the TV punter. Nobody cares about winning a league, and there is no promotion/relegation, there is a draft (and salary cap in the NFL) - there isn't really a comparison to be made.

 

*handicapped in that the better teams are supposed to get the tougher schedules so as to maintain parity (particularly in the NFL).

[FrazMFC96]

If we NEED 4 old-firm games a year then start a Glasgow Cup consisting of Celtic, Rangers, Queens Park and Thistle. Seeded of course so the mankies don't play each other in the first round.

[Wellfan1984]

Go back to what Steve Diggle said see Poland have agreed to go to a 16 team league with a split to make up the games.

[santheman]

Don't all gang up on me now but looking at the voting pattern, the vast majority on here have said that they will either renew their season tickets or PATG in some form so we're hardly sending an emphatic message to the board that there is some sort of massive fans revolt at the way they intended to vote (and subsequently voted). If the voting on here is reflected through the fan base then it would appear that not a lot of fans would actually stop going to the games which to me suggests that most couldn't really give a flying fuck one way or another and are only interested in watching the 'Well. Then again I could be wrong!!

 

 

 

[El Grew]

Any concept of a league where teams don't play each other the same number of times, where there is a split, and where you can end up playing more games away than at home, is just mental.

 

The fact that we are even proposing it shows what a state our game is in.

 

Spot on wee yin. The concept of a club starting out in one league and then moving to another after a certain number of games is just unbelievable nonsense.

I feel sorry for the chairmen of St. Mirren and Ross County as they are now being painted as the villains in all of this and being blamed for the so-called demise of Scottish football which is just garbage. They are the only two that have had the common sense to see this tosh for what it is and the only two that have had the balls to say no.

As for Stuart Milne, he's nothing but a sheep-shagging wanker.

[Ian-in-Oz]

Have to laugh at Mine saying he would love to know what St.Mirren's agenda is well Milne the whole of Scottish football wants to know what your agenda was when you sided with Celtic to keep the 11-1 ya fud

[Mic2904]

MLB and NFL are supposedly handicapped, but for me it's irrelevant to this discussion as they exist purely to serve the playoffs and the TV punter. Nobody cares about winning a league, and there is no promotion/relegation, there is a draft (and salary cap in the NFL) - there isn't really a comparison to be made.

 

*handicapped in that the better teams are supposed to get the tougher schedules so as to maintain parity (particularly in the NFL).

 

Its working because the teams are having the salary cap. Teams can take a breather for a year or 2 no problem, pick up draft picks and come back stronger... sometimes...

 

Complete different scenario as you say, esp the NFL people tend to forget that these are actually 2 different leagues! In regards to the MLB where you have a 160 and more game season, you are bound to play a team a few times

 

I dont see why a 14 team league wont work.... to many meaningless games? Dont think so if you have Playoffs...

[Well-Made]

So tell me if I am just being skeptical or not but St Mirren only announced their intention to vote after a meeting between Green and Gilmour.

 

Green and Gilmour meet

 

 

Now Gilmour hasn't explained why he voted against the new set up, despite stating it was the 11-1 vote that was a main sticking point. Apparently this was opened to change yesterday and still he didn't change his vote.

 

The fact that since then he has offered an explanation to why this didn't change his perception of the set up appears to be the main cause of upset.

 

Either way the right decision was reached, there has to be a better way.

[steelboy]

they were only offering to change the voting on some issues not all.

 

Apparently financial distribution would still be 11-1 which makes any other changes worthless.

[NottsMFC]

So tell me if I am just being skeptical or not but St Mirren only announced their intention to vote after a meeting between Green and Gilmour.

 

Green and Gilmour meet

 

 

Now Gilmour hasn't explained why he voted against the new set up, despite stating it was the 11-1 vote that was a main sticking point. Apparently this was opened to change yesterday and still he didn't change his vote.

 

The fact that since then he has offered an explanation to why this didn't change his perception of the set up appears to be the main cause of upset.

 

Either way the right decision was reached, there has to be a better way.

 

I think people who see St Mirren as championing the views of the fans are being a bit naive.

I believe they were working to a different agenda but it is convenient for them to claim they listened to the fan's views etc & are taking the moral high ground.

 

The statement from sevco stating that St Mirren & Ross County shouldn't be singled out sounds like a veiled way for them to take some of the credit for blocking it.

 

Like you say though, there has to be a better way & the outcome was 1 that the majority of fans wanted.

[Stu]

So tell me if I am just being skeptical or not but St Mirren only announced their intention to vote after a meeting between Green and Gilmour.

 

Green and Gilmour meet

 

 

Now Gilmour hasn't explained why he voted against the new set up, despite stating it was the 11-1 vote that was a main sticking point. Apparently this was opened to change yesterday and still he didn't change his vote.

 

The fact that since then he has offered an explanation to why this didn't change his perception of the set up appears to be the main cause of upset.

 

Either way the right decision was reached, there has to be a better way.

The suggestion from Spiers and English on Radio Scotland last night was that an SPL2 (with Rangers) is all but guaranteed now.

 

All the talk has been about the first division clubs being worst affected by yesterday's decision. A group of first division clubs have already met with the SPL. Milne and Lawwell are keen on a 10-team top-flight. Rangers can come into SPL2 as it's invitational. We have an SPL and an SPL2 of 10 teams each. All top clubs are happy that everything fits in to place.

[fatcalf]

I think people who see St Mirren as championing the views of the fans are being a bit naive.

I believe they were working to a different agenda but it is convenient for them to claim they listened to the fan's views etc & are taking the moral high ground.

 

The statement from sevco stating that St Mirren & Ross County shouldn't be singled out sounds like a veiled way for them to take some of the credit for blocking it.

 

Like you say though, there has to be a better way & the outcome was 1 that the majority of fans wanted.

 

Rather like our own club took plaudits last summer for listening to the fans when in reality they had little option you mean?

 

Who cares what they claim, they did what the others should have done and vetoed this daft notion. Sevco's views are worthless in this, only their pals in the weejie meedja deem them to have any credence. SPL 1 & 2 is not credible either, 2 leagues of 10 is further away from what fans want but if all palms are creased it will probably happen, inviting Sevco in would be fatal error IMO though.

[nethertonwellfan]

The suggestion from Spiers and English on Radio Scotland last night was that an SPL2 (with Rangers) is all but guaranteed now.

 

All the talk has been about the first division clubs being worst affected by yesterday's decision. A group of first division clubs have already met with the SPL. Milne and Lawwell are keen on a 10-team top-flight. Rangers can come into SPL2 as it's invitational. We have an SPL and an SPL2 of 10 teams each. All top clubs are happy that everything fits in to place.

At the forum on Thursday night Derek Weir denied any talk of an SPL 2 and said if there was a proposal that meant Rangers were parachuted through the leagues then Motherwell would not support it. I suspect that would also require an 11-1 vote so I'm not sure if it would pass.

[Stu]

At the forum on Thursday night Derek Weir denied any talk of an SPL 2 and said if there was a proposal that meant Rangers were parachuted through the leagues then Motherwell would not support it. I suspect that would also require an 11-1 vote so I'm not sure if it would pass.

I normally roll my eyes at people who instantly come up with conspiracy theories and wild accusations, but I just don't trust a single person in the entire set-up of Scottish football any more. There's not one individual who I'd happily trust to be telling me the truth. Not Gilmour, not Milne, not Doncaster, not Lawwell, not Green, and I'm sorry to say, not Derek Weir. That's not anything personally against him. It's just difficult to put any faith into anyone involved in this entire clusterfuck of a saga.

 

If it turned out that SPL2 with Rangers was actually the plan all along, it wouldn't surprise me. Nothing would surprise me any more.

[nethertonwellfan]

I normally roll my eyes at people who instantly come up with conspiracy theories and wild accusations, but I just don't trust a single person in the entire set-up of Scottish football any more. There's not one individual who I'd happily trust to be telling me the truth. Not Gilmour, not Milne, not Doncaster, not Lawwell, not Green, and I'm sorry to say, not Derek Weir. That's not anything personally against him. It's just difficult to put any faith into anyone involved in this entire clusterfuck of a saga.

 

If it turned out that SPL2 with Rangers was actually the plan all along, it wouldn't surprise me. Nothing would surprise me any more.

Me neither to be honest and if this does come to pass then I really am finished for good. He looked straight at the people in the room and categorically stated, without any ambiguity, that Motherwell wouldn't support such a plan. If we were to support it then it would be nothing other than deception on Mr Weir's part. I do think he meant what he said though and I hope I'm right.