League Re-Construction

[Special aka]

Knee jerk !!!! Cant understand the panic to get something in place for next season. More likely to have flaws if rushed at this rate.

[nethertonwellfan]

It just shows you that they were talking shite when they told us there could be no cherry picking of the issues and that it was an all nothing proposal. It was a cynical attempt to get their shambolic 8-8-8 proprosal through.

[Well 4 Europe]

Looks good to me, all the bits I liked from the last proposal without the ridiculous 8-8-8 split thing. Always thought we had too many governing body's and that we should introduce a Pyramid system so I'm quite pleased with those aspects.

 

And I think play-offs are a brilliant idea personally, although I know it's not everyone's cup of tea. The bottom six is dull especially when there's one team cut adrift at the bottom. This would give games a bit of needle and meaning with teams afraid of getting dragged into the relegation play off's rather than dull meaningless end of season games. Plus it gives 1st division teams something to play for, in a league where only one team can go up it means 5 or 6 teams seasons are over by the new year with them relatively safe from relegation but too far away to get top spot. It should generate more meaningful games and hopefully help boost crowds and make things a bit more exciting. Could you imagine a St.Mirren vs Morton relegation/promotion decider? It would be a sell out and an amazing atmosphere.

 

Early days and you can be sure there'll be some drama along the way but it all looks positive to me, the only thing that worries me is the lack of chat about changing the 11-1 voting structure.

 

Didn't think that through. Be interesting to see what the new voting structure will be.

[NottsMFC]

Same here re 11-1 voting structure.

 

Surely if the SPL will effectively no longer exist a new structure will need to be put in place?

[johnstone]

Great news.

[Wellfan1984]

Sadly there about about 19 or so SFL clubs that might not like the proposals. The SPL was an everyone is welcome league compared to the SFL. Pyramid system may not make it in...

 

Surely if the SPL will effectively no longer exist a new structure will need to be put in place?

 

The Scottish Professional Football League has been mentioned a few times, so the SPL and SFL, will become the SPFL....

[Easy Target]

How can there possibly be an 11-1 voting structure in a 42 team league. Doesn't make sense. I'm guessing it's oot the windae.

[Big Stall]

How can there possibly be an 11-1 voting structure in a 42 team league. Doesn't make sense. I'm guessing it's oot the windae.

 

 

They haven't yet announced the new 41-1 voting rules......

[Dodge]

And I think play-offs are a brilliant idea personally, although I know it's not everyone's cup of tea. The bottom six is dull especially when there's one team cut adrift at the bottom. This would give games a bit of needle and meaning with teams afraid of getting dragged into the relegation play off's rather than dull meaningless end of season games. Plus it gives 1st division teams something to play for, in a league where only one team can go up it means 5 or 6 teams seasons are over by the new year with them relatively safe from relegation but too far away to get top spot. It should generate more meaningful games and hopefully help boost crowds and make things a bit more exciting. Could you imagine a St.Mirren vs Morton relegation/promotion decider? It would be a sell out and an amazing atmosphere.

 

The creation of anything which makes teams afraid is something which I am not keen on. Being afraid in Scottish football means adopting an attitude and tactics which first of all mean stop the other team playing therefore you won't lose. Countering the play-offs with a bigger league is an absolute must in my opinion.

[Wellfan1984]

an all-through distribution model involving substantial redistribution to the second tier

 

Excellent. Instead of a huge gap between top and second tier, there is going to be a massive gap between second and third - which although big now, with the new work-around will actually be un-closeable in the future....

[Ya Bezzer!]

I think we should be adapting a less is more attitude with TV companies. To be honest, I've stopped watched SPL matches on TV as I'm sick of watching SPL teams given how often I see them at Fir Park. I'm sure I'm not alone in this either. Combined with a good league setup which reduces the number of times each team play one another, I would be more inclined to watch other SPL games play.

 

I would do away with the ESPN package which will add value to the current Sky package as it would grant the owner of the package with exclusive SPL live TV rights. Given BT have bought the ESPN package and by the sounds of it want to be challenging Sky, then a bidding war between the 2 can only work to the benefit of the SPL clubs. TV

 

Alternatively we could be looking to come up with a football alternative to the Formula One Concodat agreement where the clubs agree that SPL tv be shown on the free-to-air tv for purposes of maximum exposure to club sponsors. Both this year and last year, in Formula One it forced Sky to work with the BBC to come together and club money together to purchase the TV contract. Whats to stop BBC, Sky, ITV or BT Vision to do the same?

 

Only problem with that is Formula One is an internaionally premier sporting brand. They can squeeze those sort of concessions out of broadcasters.

 

Currently Sky can say to Scottish football "take it or leave it".

[Guest]

The creation of anything which makes teams afraid is something which I am not keen on. Being afraid in Scottish football means adopting an attitude and tactics which first of all mean stop the other team playing therefore you won't lose. Countering the play-offs with a bigger league is an absolute must in my opinion.

 

I do agree to an extent, as fear kills football, but I'm not sure it's the end of the world in any way. A bigger league just doesn't make sense to me, certainly not at the moment. Any time we've seen a team be promoted and 'go with what they've got', in Dundee or Dunfermline's case, they've failed abysmally. There's a pretty big gap between the first and the SPL, and even more so between the winner of the first and whoever ends up finishing

second.

 

Someone is going to lose out, at some point. We're at where we're at just now because everyone has operated on the basis of self-interest. We all have to give a little in order to save a lot. A bigger league doesn't really counter-act this, as it doesn't address the issues of what's below the top 12/14/16, they'll still be shite.

 

While advocating a bit of sacrifice, I realise this might be a bit hypocritical, I don't advocate splitting the pot of money we have between another 2/4/6 teams for this reason. Below that would still be poor and won't improve. In addition to that, the split of the wealth throughout the leagues, rather than just among a smaller number of teams, makes relegation slightly more palatable, rather than the absolute disaster it would be just now.

 

Ideally, if the level improves between the SPL and the 1st, we could see a shift to a bigger league structure, but just jumping at it at the moment seems unwise to me.

 

Excellent. Instead of a huge gap between top and second tier, there is going to be a massive gap between second and third - which although big now, with the new work-around will actually be un-closeable in the future....

 

Is there a huge gap between the 1st, 2nd and 3rd (and below)? I'll admit my knowledge of Scottish football drops along with the leagues. I know a bit, but not nearly as much as I do about the SPL/1st. Ideally, sharing the wealth expands and raises everyone's level, but I've no idea what sort of a gap there is below the first. Any info would be good if you could share!

[Wellfan1984]

Is there a huge gap between the 1st, 2nd and 3rd (and below)? I'll admit my knowledge of Scottish football drops along with the leagues. I know a bit, but not nearly as much as I do about the SPL/1st. Ideally, sharing the wealth expands and raises everyone's level, but I've no idea what sort of a gap there is below the first. Any info would be good if you could share!

 

The biggest problem is at anyone time (normal circumstances) there will be 1 Full Time team and 9 Part-Time teams in the Second Division. Now, if you add on the fact the First Division is going to have a massive boost financially then it is easy to see the Part-Time teams that some-how make it into the First, either by auto-promotion or playoff (will they remain between 1st and 2nd?) they will already be a level or two behind.

 

It also leads onto the whole expanding the top league. If you power up the current First, but do not at the same time do the same for the Second and Third, then there is no way we could ever create a larger top league as the gap would be just too big between the teams that are left behind and those that come up to join them.

[Dr.Pepper]

Sounds good to me these proposals. Although this being Scotland no doubt the SFL will vote down the proposals for some ridiculous reason <_>

 

My guess would be that the pyramid system below the third division will not be ready for next season and more like 2014/15 may be the earliest we see it.

 

As for wealth distribution will there be more money being given to all 3 lower leagues now or just more to the first?

[Guest]

The biggest problem is at anyone time (normal circumstances) there will be 1 Full Time team and 9 Part-Time teams in the Second Division. Now, if you add on the fact the First Division is going to have a massive boost financially then it is easy to see the Part-Time teams that some-how make it into the First, either by auto-promotion or playoff (will they remain between 1st and 2nd?) they will already be a level or two behind.

 

It also leads onto the whole expanding the top league. If you power up the current First, but do not at the same time do the same for the Second and Third, then there is no way we could ever create a larger top league as the gap would be just too big.

 

Right, I wasn't aware the split between pt/ft was so polar, and obviously the ft team will always triumph, leaving the rest of the league to battle for playoff spots, and the gap growing further between the two.

 

And just to clarify, the trickle down of wealth doesn't expand to the lower leagues? In no way do I want to see them cut adrift, I've got a lot of affection for the Angus clubs particularly, Brechin is a cracking wee place to go. As you said as well, that puts the kybosh on expanding to bigger leagues, as the gap will be huge.

 

Interesting, cheers.

[joewarkfanclub]

Certainly appears far more sensible than the original proposals. Heres hoping we can get a decent tv deal with more regular k/o times that might allow us to lower admission costs and drive up attendances......

 

Ok. Maybe I took that too far!

[Ian-in-Oz]

Do we keep the money for finishing 2nd (maybe 3rd) this year & as of next year it starts to be more evenly spread or does all the prize money for this season get split more for the beginning of next season? (except Celtics 1st place money which has been deemed untouchable)

Seems a bit rushed to get it in place for next year with the fixtures announced in 5 weeks or so but apparently as the league formats are the same they can tinker with details after the season has kicked off. Sounds good on the whole though.

[joewarkfanclub]

All the non OF clubs have already agreed to spread the 2nd place money to reduce the impact of the "lost Rangers revenue".

 

Given that none of the clubs knew at that time where they would finish up it was probably a sensible and fair decision.

 

Its a kicker now that it looks like we might get 2nd but not as big a disgrace as not taking Celtic on to redistribute some of their share.

 

It should be looked at again with these new proposals. But I bet it wont.

[CoF]

 

Its a kicker now that it looks like we might get 2nd but not as big a disgrace as not taking Celtic on to redistribute some of their share.

 

 

It would have been almost completely impossible and probably illegal to change the share of 1st in the middle of the season. I don't think any SPL club can be criticised under these circumstances, and it's certainly not a 'disgrace'.

 

It will however be interesting to see how the prize money is split this coming season. If 11/1 vote remains then I'm guessing it'll be the same setup as this season.

[Malky79]

It would have been almost completely impossible and probably illegal to change the share of 1st in the middle of the season. I don't think any SPL club can be criticised under these circumstances, and it's certainly not a 'disgrace'.

 

It will however be interesting to see how the prize money is split this coming season. If 11/1 vote remains then I'm guessing it'll be the same setup as this season.

 

How is it different from changing the share of 2nd, 3rd etc?

[nethertonwellfan]

It would have been almost completely impossible and probably illegal to change the share of 1st in the middle of the season. I don't think any SPL club can be criticised under these circumstances, and it's certainly not a 'disgrace'.

 

It will however be interesting to see how the prize money is split this coming season. If 11/1 vote remains then I'm guessing it'll be the same setup as this season.

At the reconstruction forum a few weeks ago we were informed that there should be a premium for winning the league and that the 1st place will continue to get a far bigger share than the rest. Apparently all 12 clubs are in agreement on this.

[Frazzie]

Was there a justification given for the agreement?

[fatcalf]

At the reconstruction forum a few weeks ago we were informed that there should be a premium for winning the league and that the 1st place will continue to get a far bigger share than the rest. Apparently all 12 clubs are in agreement on this.

 

That will only apply until the Old Firm fuck off, then sure as eggs are eggs the amount will pare down, no question the winners deserve a bigger share, it is prize money after all but 'sharing' the money around should mean just that, with everyone sharing, not just the 11 diddy clubs who still believe they need the scraps off these parasites to survive and seem shit feart to stand their ground..

[nethertonwellfan]

Was there a justification given for the agreement?

The said that they wanted to give teams guaranteed extra money to help offset a drop in income due to Rangers not being in the SPL. They said that we were 7th in the league at the the point of the agreement and it was Hibs' idea and they were 2nd in the league at the time. They said the didn't touch the share of 1st place because of the a winner of something should get a premium of the money. They pointed to other sports where the winners get a bigger majority of any prize money.

[NottsMFC]

Don't think anyone would argue that the winners should get the biggest share.

 

Doesn't mean it couldn't have been watered down a bit & shared out like the rest.

 

Even after the agreement 2nd place still gets more than 3rd, 3rd more than 4th etc.

 

Think we all know that Celtic just wouldn't entertain the idea of their share being reduced at all, even though they are in a better position than all the other clubs to absorb a slight reduction.