League Re-Construction

[NottsMFC]

Fuck reconstructing now anyway, this current setup seems to suit us

[Special aka]

Where was the Ashy in north lodge? .......................

The Ashy was next to the bings, (where it got its name), at the end of North Lodge Ave just before it meets Manse Road. George St park was a 5 min walk away. Playing football there was taboo late 60's early 70's, that's why we tended to congregate at the Ashy.

[weeyin]

[Lobey_Dosser]

 

Not sure that's how it would have shaped up after 22 games. At this stage of the season the top 4 of the middle 8 may well have been decided with the prospect of no relegation and promotion.

 

Imagine Hibs, Hearts and St Mirren battling to avoid the relegation playoff slot while Morton, Falkirk and Livi jockey for a shot at promotion.

[Kmcalpin]

An interesting interview with Stewart Milne. Text on 11-1 voting is revealing.

 

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/spl/stewart-milne-fears-for-scottish-football-1-2904067

[Brazilian]

An interesting interview with Stewart Milne. Text on 11-1 voting is revealing.

 

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/spl/stewart-milne-fears-for-scottish-football-1-2904067

 

Edit:

It's not revealing at all Dave, well it is in a way as it reveals they are all either at it by being selective, or possibly none of them have the full story? Or, its just more smoke and mirrors, I'd guess they are all at it, none of them will reveal what the true proposal is

 

Quite staggering stuff in there

 

Clubs have failed to sell proposal, but we still don't get told what it really is

 

Lets make mistakes then try and sort them, pmsl, yeah we've got a great record on doing that (under 11-1)

 

Hosted a meeting on 11-1, to tell everyone it wouldn't be changed, but it was never voted on? Wouldn't have been that hard to add vote in at a meeting, and maybe discuss any matters that needed to be reserved

 

Meaningless games if we had a 14 team league this season? Is anything decided yet this year? Actually sick of this meaningless talk from all clubs, its upto clubs to get supporters on board and they supporters come along to watch their own teams

 

Bullying, clearly he is an understanding individual who didn't in any way use his platform to try and push all the problems that Scottish football is facing into one man/club

 

But yeah, i dont think its revealing to those who have been following its just more spin

[Ya Bezzer!]

An interesting interview with Stewart Milne. Text on 11-1 voting is revealing.

 

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/spl/stewart-milne-fears-for-scottish-football-1-2904067

 

"The resolution at the meeting in this house last year was to take everything out of 11-1 and make it 9-3 and there is no way in the world that Aberdeen and also Hearts, Hibs and Dundee United would ever take home gates [home clubs retaining all gate money] and one or two other items out of protected status."

 

This doesn't make any sense. 9-3 was not considered because 4 (probably 5 if you include Celtic) would never accept less than 100% home gate money retention?

 

So just vote it down, using 9-3 with a considerable margin, if it were ever to come up for discussion, which I've not heard any one actually mention.

 

If this is the reason 9-3 was not put in place it's a bullshit reason.

 

I wonder what these other one or two items were?

[joewarkfanclub]

An interesting interview with Stewart Milne. Text on 11-1 voting is revealing.

 

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/spl/stewart-milne-fears-for-scottish-football-1-2904067

 

So there was NEVER a financial deal on the table for 12-12-18 as inferred.

 

So they actually have no idea what extra value, if any, there is for 12-12-18.

 

In that case WHY were we being told it had to be all or nothing because the status quo means less money/armageddon?

 

More lies and bullying from a bunch of incompetent idiots who continue to ignore their customers who are telling them how to fix their product.

 

One more thing, Milne accuses Gilmour of self interest but admits he, Hearts and Hibs dont want a 9-3 vote for gate money, presumably because, with Celtic, they have the biggest attendances and they

have the biggest gates and want to protect them.

 

I dont personally think splitting gates is fair to those clubs listed, but that decision is undoubtedly bourne of self interest which makes him a total hypocrite.

[joewarkfanclub]

On his point about a 14 team league. Is it beyond his imagination to take an 8/6 split, make it a 7/7 split and add play-offs for 2nd/3rd bottom v 2nd/3rd top of SFL1. That would bring everyone in the bottom half into the mix and avoid the meaningless games he says he wants to avoid.

 

Oh wait, that might expose his club to a higher risk of being relegated.....

[Ya Bezzer!]

So there was NEVER a financial deal on the table for 12-12-18 as inferred.

 

So they actually have no idea what extra value, if any, there is for 12-12-18.

 

Neil Doncaster already admitted this on radio. The whole format change was nothing more than a wee bit of skirt lifting for Sky.

 

As I said this time last year with the whole Rangers debacle, Sky is a villan in the shadows here.

 

They never make statements, they openly criticise or support initiatives but their influence on Scottish football is completely noxious.

 

They have chairman of football clubs like Aberdeen running around like lickspittles, trying to please their 'masters'.

 

I will repeat it again and again. Until Scottish football turns its back on live football and re-adjusts its finances accordingly we will be in a permanent state of crisis.

[joewarkfanclub]

Neil Doncaster already admitted this on radio. The whole format change was nothing more than a wee bit of skirt lifting for Sky.

 

As I said this time last year with the whole Rangers debacle, Sky is a villan in the shadows here.

 

They never make statements, they openly criticise or support initiatives but their influence on Scottish football is completely noxious.

 

They have chairman of football clubs like Aberdeen running around like lickspittles, trying to please their 'masters'.

 

I will repeat it again and again. Until Scottish football turns its back on live football and re-adjusts its finances accordingly we will be in a permanent state of crisis.

 

Must have missed that.

 

But then again whenever Doomcaster opens his mouth I switch off anyway......

 

I probably agree with you over live tv but I dont see how we can work it in practice given all clubs have players on contracts based on existing revenues.

 

One way round it would be to drop the prices for live games to £10 and factor those into the season ticket.

[Waldo]

"The resolution at the meeting in this house last year was to take everything out of 11-1 and make it 9-3 and there is no way in the world that Aberdeen and also Hearts, Hibs and Dundee United would ever take home gates [home clubs retaining all gate money] and one or two other items out of protected status."

 

I wonder what these other one or two items were?

 

The believe the 11-1 voing affects

(1) Retaining home gate receipts,

(2) League restructuring,

(3) Distribution model of finance,

(4) Squad size,

(5) Under 21 rules

(6) Season start date,

(7) Number of home live TV matches,

(8 ) Salary capping

 

I would gues some 'big' clubs would want to retain (1), (4), (7) and (8 ) with Celtic wanting (6) for their 'glamour' friendly.

[Kmcalpin]

Edit:

It's not revealing at all Dave, well it is in a way as it reveals they are all either at it by being selective, or possibly none of them have the full story? Or, its just more smoke and mirrors, I'd guess they are all at it, none of them will reveal what the true proposal is

 

Quite staggering stuff in there

 

 

Throughout this whole sorry saga, there's only one thing I've been certain about and thats we've not been told the full story and that I didn't know enough to form an informed opinion. The SPL (and SFA & SFL) operates in secrecy and I can understand the reasons why. As far as voting is concerned I did not know until last autumn that there were different thresholds for different issues. I also learned for the first time a few months ago that Aberdeen were against changing the 11-1 voting. Since then I have assumed, very mistakenly as it turns out, that only Celtic and Aberdeen opposed changes to the voting. Now it transpires that clubs like Hibs, Hearts, Dundee United would also oppose any change. Again I can understand why - self interest pure and simple. I'm all right jack!

 

I've known for some time that, in general, SPL Chairmen were a very awkward bunch and that trying to get agreement on anything including what sandwiches to order at working lunches, was almost impossible. I don't think Neil Doncaster (and his two colleagues at the SFA and SFL) has handled matters well but I now appreciate the difficult and trying environment in which he has had to work.

 

For many of us the voting issue was always very clear cut and simple - why don't the other 10 SPL members gang up on Celtic and Aberdeen and change the thresholds. Now is the moment. In reality there was only ever limited support for it because of self interest.

 

As for the issue of cherry picking the best points of the proposals I now suspect there are none which would garner sufficient interest to be passed. For example, Neil Doncaster is not going to come out and state publicly that amalgamation of the 3 governing bodies will be taken forward on its own as Clubs X,Y and Z will not support it.

[Brazilian]

Throughout this whole sorry saga, there's only one thing I've been certain about and thats we've not been told the full story and that I didn't know enough to form an informed opinion. The SPL (and SFA & SFL) operates in secrecy and I can understand the reasons why.

 

As far as voting is concerned I did not know until last autumn that there were different thresholds for different issues. I also learned for the first time a few months ago that Aberdeen were against changing the 11-1 voting. Since then I have assumed, very mistakenly as it turns out, that only Celtic and Aberdeen opposed changes to the voting. Now it transpires that clubs like Hibs, Hearts, Dundee United would also oppose any change. Again I can understand why - self interest pure and simple. I'm all right jack!

 

For many of us the voting issue was always very clear cut and simple - why don't the other 10 SPL members gang up on Celtic and Aberdeen and change the thresholds. Now is the moment. In reality there was only ever limited support for it because of self interest.

 

 

You might not have known Dave, but the rules and articles of the league structure are there on the website available to be read, so what it was/is, is out there for all to see

 

Our club choosing to gloss over the voting proposals, when briefing the well society says it all to me, no club wants the fans to see the full proposal, especially the facts that would likely be unjustifiable

 

Voting is still the key to unlocking the future, they've wasted a year not dealing with it, hell mend them all if they don't action it immediately

 

But Milne and co, might just have secured its future until st Mirren are relegated or Celtic leave

[Brazilian]

Bbc Alba are running a halftime segment with Roy mcgregor on no vote on reconstruction

[Brazilian]

SFL clubs + Dundee and QOS met today, SPL2 not on the Agenda?

 

 

Lawell hints change proposal has to be made quickly

[Ian-in-Oz]

Edit:

It's not revealing at all Dave, well it is in a way as it reveals they are all either at it by being selective, or possibly none of them have the full story? Or, its just more smoke and mirrors, I'd guess they are all at it, none of them will reveal what the true proposal is

 

Quite staggering stuff in there

 

Clubs have failed to sell proposal, but we still don't get told what it really is

 

Lets make mistakes then try and sort them, pmsl, yeah we've got a great record on doing that (under 11-1)

 

Hosted a meeting on 11-1, to tell everyone it wouldn't be changed, but it was never voted on? Wouldn't have been that hard to add vote in at a meeting, and maybe discuss any matters that needed to be reserved

 

Meaningless games if we had a 14 team league this season? Is anything decided yet this year? Actually sick of this meaningless talk from all clubs, its upto clubs to get supporters on board and they supporters come along to watch their own teams

 

Bullying, clearly he is an understanding individual who didn't in any way use his platform to try and push all the problems that Scottish football is facing into one man/club

 

But yeah, i dont think its revealing to those who have been following its just more spin

You can dress it up anyway you want but as far as i can see all Killie, Hearts, Hibs & Aberdeen's league games are at this point meaningless. If all that is at stake is finishing one place further up to gain an extra few coppers or professional pride then i don't see either of these reasons bringing the fans in especially the away fans. This isn't a slight on those clubs coz if we were in their position then our support would suffer as well. People have a hard enough time making ends meet without forking out money to go & watch what is effectively dead rubber.

[KirkySuperSub]

I agree with Brazilian. The 'meaningless game' chat does my head in as well. Every football league in the world, professional or amatuer, will always have some 'meaningless' games to play at some point. Why would, or should, our professional league be any different?

[weeyin]

I agree with Brazilian. The 'meaningless game' chat does my head in as well. Every football league in the world, professional or amatuer, will always have some 'meaningless' games to play at some point. Why would, or should, our professional league be any different?

 

Too right. A classic example over here is baseball. 162 games in the regular season means some of the useless teams can easily end up playing 30 or 40 (or more) meaningless games in any given year. More meaningless given that there isn't even relegation to fight.

[joewarkfanclub]

You can dress it up anyway you want but as far as i can see all Killie, Hearts, Hibs & Aberdeen's league games are at this point meaningless. If all that is at stake is finishing one place further up to gain an extra few coppers or professional pride then i don't see either of these reasons bringing the fans in especially the away fans. This isn't a slight on those clubs coz if we were in their position then our support would suffer as well. People have a hard enough time making ends meet without forking out money to go & watch what is effectively dead rubber.

 

Thats why you need play off places for 2nd / 3rd bottom. Would give everyone something to play for without it being instant relegation for 2nd bottom and it would give the tv their grand play off final at Hampden.

[Dodge]

Thats why you need play off places for 2nd / 3rd bottom. Would give everyone something to play for without it being instant relegation for 2nd bottom and it would give the tv their grand play off final at Hampden.

 

Pandering to TV is what got our game into bother. Increasing the number of relegation places isn't healthy for our game to as many teams get back to making sure they don't lose as their number one plan. A poor Dundee team in this years SPL ensured that most teams could concentrate on playing their own game without putting so much effort into negating other teams. Potentially increasing relegation places to 3 would be a huge step back for our game.

 

If Scottish football is going to introduce play-offs it should be between the teams in the lower division not the next lowest from the top league and the next highest from the bottom. The reason the english play-offs work so well is that it is between teams who have played positive football and have achieved high league placing throughout the season.

[joewarkfanclub]

Pandering to TV is what got our game into bother. Increasing the number of relegation places isn't healthy for our game to as many teams get back to making sure they don't lose as their number one plan. A poor Dundee team in this years SPL ensured that most teams could concentrate on playing their own game without putting so much effort into negating other teams. Potentially increasing relegation places to 3 would be a huge step back for our game.

 

If Scottish football is going to introduce play-offs it should be between the teams in the lower division not the next lowest from the top league and the next highest from the bottom. The reason the english play-offs work so well is that it is between teams who have played positive football and have achieved high league placing throughout the season.

 

The english play offs are unsporting. The team in 3rd could be 10-15 points clear of the team 6th and lose out in what effectively is a knock out tournament. It may be exciting but hardly fair.

 

My post was in response to the complaints about meaningless games and could be part of a new 14 team set up. I dont think 2 down out of a 14 team league is too many and opens opportunity for the SFL1 teams to freshen things up.

 

Not saying we should do it for the benefit of tv but you cant ignore its importance so it would be silly not to try and market the opportunity.

[Shaka]

The only way to introduce play offs in that way is to open a second SPL relegation spot tho,sure the teams would rather a play off for 11th than automatically down!

 

For what its worth,id advocate a 10 year plan. Start with Premiership of 12 with a split & Championship of 20 (non league pyramid below), playoffs between Prem 11 & Champ 2,3,4. Then in 5 years expand to 14 Premier with a split & 18 Championship,same play offs. 5 years later expand to the final system which would be 18 team Premiership & 14 team championship with split,2 Premiership relegation & Championship playoffs.

 

This together with a 75% Majority voting structure, uniform youth development between all top 32 teams,FFP Rules,New and clear insolvency rules, Squad Cap,Non Eu player cap,Salary Cap & min 8 homegrown players per squad. Season starts last sat in July with mid season break in Jan & if any team wants to arrange 'glamour' friendlies during the season they are welcome to,all they will need to do is forfeit the domestic game they are binning and accept a fine and point deduction for bringing the game into disrepute.

[joewarkfanclub]

These suggestions are not without merit.

 

I especially like the last line!

[Dodge]

The english play offs are unsporting. The team in 3rd could be 10-15 points clear of the team 6th and lose out in what effectively is a knock out tournament. It may be exciting but hardly fair.

 

Whats fair and sporting in a play off of the second bottom SPL team and the next highest 1st division team? the SPL team will have the better squad due to a bigger budget - Just look at Dundee's failure to properly prepare for the SPL to see the huge difference. Could the 1st division team do it over one game - possibly but the playoffs we've had in the past with a leg both home and away, I'd bet on the SPL team winning the play off the vast majority of the time. Personally I'd prefer to not to have playoffs at all - give me a bigger league with 2 relegation places without splits or playoffs with Saturday 3pm kick offs the norm. Its not to much to ask is it?