League Re-Construction

[Frazzie]

I'm not so sure about that. Both winning and losing becomes a habit and even if the SPL club does win, the cash that comes with a two-legged play-off is a partial reward in itself for finishing second.

[joewarkfanclub]

Whats fair and sporting in a play off of the second bottom SPL team and the next highest 1st division team? the SPL team will have the better squad due to a bigger budget - Just look at Dundee's failure to properly prepare for the SPL to see the huge difference. Could the 1st division team do it over one game - possibly but the playoffs we've had in the past with a leg both home and away, I'd bet on the SPL team winning the play off the vast majority of the time. Personally I'd prefer to not to have playoffs at all - give me a bigger league with 2 relegation places without splits or playoffs with Saturday 3pm kick offs the norm. Its not to much to ask is it?

 

Dodge, your preference is nirvana for most football fans who have been asking for the very same for years. I would personally love to do that and get back to no live tv and the only coverage being Sportscene highlights on a Saturday night. However, how do we get there? Clearly the clubs cant or wont do without tv money at present so the basis for any discussion has to be where we are starting from, not where we would like to end up.

 

I agree, the play-offs I suggested probably does favour the SPL side and could be viewed as unsporting but in a one off game at Hampden its more of a chance than they are getting right now.

 

It would certainly address the meaningless games this season, although I accept you couldnt guarantee that every year, but the play off would be box office.

 

Its just an idea. Im pretty open to anything that might improve the game.....except 8x8x8 which was the most ludicrous proposal Ive ever heard.

[nethertonwellfan]

Also for every Dundee there is a Ross County.

[Wellfan1984]

Also for every Dundee there is a Ross County.

 

Not really. Ross County won the league at a canter. Dundee were on all tence and purposes a division 1 side forced into the SPL.

 

For every Ross County there is a Dunfermline.

 

Playoffs are pathetic anyway - although 2nd bottom v 2nd top is a lot better than the model the English use.

[Dodge]

Dodge, your preference is nirvana for most football fans who have been asking for the very same for years. I would personally love to do that and get back to no live tv and the only coverage being Sportscene highlights on a Saturday night. However, how do we get there? Clearly the clubs cant or wont do without tv money at present so the basis for any discussion has to be where we are starting from, not where we would like to end up.

 

I agree, the play-offs I suggested probably does favour the SPL side and could be viewed as unsporting but in a one off game at Hampden its more of a chance than they are getting right now.

 

It would certainly address the meaningless games this season, although I accept you couldnt guarantee that every year, but the play off would be box office.

 

Its just an idea. Im pretty open to anything that might improve the game.....except 8x8x8 which was the most ludicrous proposal Ive ever heard.

 

I think we should be adapting a less is more attitude with TV companies. To be honest, I've stopped watched SPL matches on TV as I'm sick of watching SPL teams given how often I see them at Fir Park. I'm sure I'm not alone in this either. Combined with a good league setup which reduces the number of times each team play one another, I would be more inclined to watch other SPL games play.

 

I would do away with the ESPN package which will add value to the current Sky package as it would grant the owner of the package with exclusive SPL live TV rights. Given BT have bought the ESPN package and by the sounds of it want to be challenging Sky, then a bidding war between the 2 can only work to the benefit of the SPL clubs. TV

 

Alternatively we could be looking to come up with a football alternative to the Formula One Concodat agreement where the clubs agree that SPL tv be shown on the free-to-air tv for purposes of maximum exposure to club sponsors. Both this year and last year, in Formula One it forced Sky to work with the BBC to come together and club money together to purchase the TV contract. Whats to stop BBC, Sky, ITV or BT Vision to do the same?

[joewarkfanclub]

I think we should be adapting a less is more attitude with TV companies. To be honest, I've stopped watched SPL matches on TV as I'm sick of watching SPL teams given how often I see them at Fir Park. I'm sure I'm not alone in this either. Combined with a good league setup which reduces the number of times each team play one another, I would be more inclined to watch other SPL games play.

 

I would do away with the ESPN package which will add value to the current Sky package as it would grant the owner of the package with exclusive SPL live TV rights. Given BT have bought the ESPN package and by the sounds of it want to be challenging Sky, then a bidding war between the 2 can only work to the benefit of the SPL clubs. TV

 

Alternatively we could be looking to come up with a football alternative to the Formula One Concodat agreement where the clubs agree that SPL tv be shown on the free-to-air tv for purposes of maximum exposure to club sponsors. Both this year and last year, in Formula One it forced Sky to work with the BBC to come together and club money together to purchase the TV contract. Whats to stop BBC, Sky, ITV or BT Vision to do the same?

 

You might want to drop this off at Hampden FAO Neil Doncaster!

[Gaag]

Formula one is the most watched sport in the world though - makes it a tad easier to negotiate with broadcasters in order to keep the fans happy.

[Haggischomper]

Formula one is the most watched sport in the world though

Claims, surely!!

[NottsMFC]

The latest in the saga, could still happen next season

 

 

A delegation of First Division clubs have held talks with representatives from the Scottish Premier League board to try and push through league reconstruction for next season.

STV understands a working party of three sides, consisting of Hamilton's Les Gray, Eric Drysdale of Raith Rovers and Falkirk's Martin Ritchie, met with their top flight counterparts on Thursday.

The group, which was formed following a meeting of First Division clubs on Monday, is working on behalf of the 10 second tier teams plus Dundee and Queen of the South.

It is understood the second tier sides approached the SPL with a view to resurrecting league reconstruction talks for implementation next season.

Hamilton chairman Gray told STV: "After the meeting on Monday evening, where the SFL board was represented, it was decided First Division clubs would set up a working party with a view to setting up meetings with the governing bodies, namely the SPL and Scottish FA.

"A meeting with a delegation from the SPL board took place on Thursday morning.

"We then had a chat with Campbell Ogilvie [scottish FA president] to keep him informed of the situation.

"David Longmuir [sFL chief executive] has been kept in the loop over these meetings and will continue to be kept informed.

"The primary function was to keep the SPL and Scottish FA in the loop with what happened on Monday and to find out if there is still a willingness to push through league reconstruction for next season.

"Most importantly, we want to try and achieve a solution for all 42 clubs."

SPL clubs recently voted down a proposal for a 12-12-18 structure, including a proposed new financial distribution model which would have seen First Division teams each receive between £319,000 and £63,000 more per season than they do at present.

The SPL and SFL were unavailable for comment when contacted by STV on Friday. The Scottish FA stated neither Ogilvie nor any representative from the governing body had taken part in any formal league reconstruction meeting.

SFL chief Longmuir presented an alternative plan to First Division clubs at Monday's meeting which included a staged introduction of reform. He had previously rejected an offer from the Scottish FA to mediate in talks.

Included in the plans was a play-off between the 11th placed side in next season's SPL and the clubs finishing second, third and fourth in the First Division.

A new financial distribution model, rulebook and governance structure would also be formulated with a view to introduction for the 2014/15 campaign.

STV understands those plans, which would also require the approval of SPL clubs, were not well received by the majority of First Division sides.

Coincidentally a separate meeting of the SPL's reconstruction working group also met on Thursday, with Dundee chief executive Scot Gardiner saying he was hopeful of change being forced through.

"There was another meeting yesterday at Hampden," he told STV. "It was very constructive.

"There's still an appetite and still a will to do something. It's now time... can we get it over the line?

"I wouldn't have wasted my day yesterday at Hampden if I didn't think we could do something.

"I've spoken today to chairmen, three different chairmen from two different leagues, in relation to trying to get it over the line.

"There's hard work being put in and time will tell, but we don't have much of it.

"We are discussing something that would be put to all 42 clubs. There's no proposal involving breakaways or anything like that."

[fatcalf]

Working hard doing not very much. Fans have told yees what's required, now go find a way to incorporate a bigger league in your workings. Cannae be that hard for folks who have made pots of dosh in business before now. Deliberately ignoring the obvious these c***s.

[TrouserTent]

There's something more sinister behind all this. Why are we so desperate to squeeze ANYTHING at all in before the end of the season?

[fatcalf]

There's something more sinister behind all this. Why are we so desperate to squeeze ANYTHING at all in before the end of the season?

 

 

££££££££££'s? Rough guess likes

[weeyin]

Undoubtedly a combination of money and a fear that it will be a long time before they get the clubs so close to agreement again.

 

One thing you can be sure they aren't worried about is the fans' view.

[Spiderpig]

Whether we like it or not Football needs the TV money and all the advertising revenue it brings..Sky, ESPN, BT etc know this so they call the shots, and if the basic product on offer is poor the money they put up suffers.

So rather than waste time and cash messing about with league structures..spend it on developing young players, better coaching, better facilities for training etc. Then if we have better developed players the games will improve, which will bring in more fans etc then we have a better product to sell to TV.

[TrouserTent]

££££££££££'s? Rough guess likes

 

Duh, I know that, but what's with the last minute rush, is there NO deal for next season?

 

Have the TV mob threatened to invoke the "must have both old firm teams" clause that allows them to walk away?

[joewarkfanclub]

Duh, I know that, but what's with the last minute rush, is there NO deal for next season?

 

Have the TV mob threatened to invoke the "must have both old firm teams" clause that allows them to walk away?

 

Reading between the lines I think there are a few of the first division clubs really struggling to maintain full time football. Not to mention SPL clubs struggling to stay afloat. They all need more money. The only way they can get it is if we have something new to offer broadcadsters/sponsors/advertisers. Unfortunately everything they have come up with so far is lkely to effect them at the gate. I think if they could get away with it they would invite Rangers into SPL2, however, I would hope the various chief execs are not that removed from reality!

[Brazilian]

speculation about Mondays meeting agenda from the BBC clicky

 

 

SPL restructuring: 'Final chance' at Monday meeting

 

By Chris McLaughlin and Jim Spence

BBC Scotland

 

What is being billed as a final attempt to have league restructuring in place for next season will be made on Monday by Scottish Premier League clubs.

It appears that the failed proposal for leagues of 12, 12 and 18 - and the controversial split of the top two divisions into three sections of eight - will not be resurrected.

Instead, the latest suggestion is for more end-of-season play-offs.

These would be between the top flight and Division One.

Should the proposal receive the required 11-1 majority, it would progress to a vote among the 30 Scottish Football League clubs.

The plan for the present 12-10-10-10 system to be replaced with three divisions, including a mid-season split in the top two leagues, did not reach that stage after Ross County and St Mirren voted against earlier this month.

Several clubs said at the time that there could be no "cherry-picking" of the proposals - that it had to be accepted as a whole package.

 

Celtic chief executive Peter Lawwell had said there could be no "cherry-picking" of proposals

 

But supporters of the new proposal are hopeful that play-offs will be enough to allow other proposals - combining the SPL and SFL into one league body, redistribution of wealth from the top division and a pyramid system into the bottom tier - to also progress.

 

County chairman Roy MacGregor spoke positively about the possibility of compromise following an SPL board meeting held on Thursday.

St Mirren counterpart Stewart Gilmour is abroad and did not hear of Monday's meeting until 1600 GMT on Friday, but the Paisley club will be represented at Hampden.

It appears that there will be two new proposals considered - the idea of play-offs and the alternative of a breakaway second tier of the SPL formed by current Division One clubs.

 

First Division clubs, who believe a redistribution of wealth is necessary to maintain full-time football and avoid following Dunfermline Athletic into administration, have met with the SPL in the aftermath of the original 10-2 vote.

It is believed that there have also been heated discussions between SFL chief executive David Longmuir and some Division One club chairmen who believe they are not receiving enough support from their governing body.

However, at least five SPL clubs, including County and St Mirren, also appear to be against the idea of creating an SPL2.

 

Celtic and Aberdeen in particular appear to be insisting that, should Monday's meeting fail to find compromise, league restructuring will not take place for next season and the play-off proposal appears to have the best chance of being accepted.

The form of the proposed play-offs themselves appears to be uncertain.

At present, there is no play-off between the top two divisions while the lower leagues have play-off semi-finals and finals involving the club finishing ninth in the upper league and those finishing second, third and fourth in the one below.

Some clubs would like a play-off between the clubs finishing 10th and 11th in the SPL and another between the clubs in second and third (or possibly second, third and fourth) in Division One, with the winners meeting one another in the final.

That appears unlikely to receive sufficient support because of the extra number of clubs who would be pulled into a relegation tussle.

Instead, it is more likely that, in an addition to one automatic promotion and relegation spot, there would be a play-off between the club finishing 11th in the SPL and the winner of a Division One play-off.

[Waldo]

Duh, I know that, but what's with the last minute rush, is there NO deal for next season?

 

Have the TV mob threatened to invoke the "must have both old firm teams" clause that allows them to walk away?

 

Maybe they made a mistake and insisted on a vague 'league reconstruction' clause and were told 'we' can swing the 12-12 -8-8-8 only to be shafted with a play off- "well that's reconstruction ain't it?" ?

[NottsMFC]

Looks like it's a no-go for reconstruction next season, although possibility of play off coming in.

 

From BBC.

 

 

The prospects of imminent change to the structure of Scottish football appear remote, following a meeting of the 12 Scottish Premier League clubs.

 

The clubs believe a league merger cannot be achieved before next season, with an "all-through financial distribution model" also shelved.

 

The only possibility for short-term change is the introduction of play-offs next season.

Four different play-off models were discussed at Hampden.

 

Afterwards, the SPL's chief executive Neil Doncaster underlined the difficulty of asking clubs to take on an additional risk of relegation, without an improved financial deal for clubs going down.

 

On the plus side, he said, play-offs provide a better route back to the SPL for clubs who do get relegated.

 

Asked whether any future commercial deals (broadcast or sponsorship) would be more lucrative if play-offs were brought in, he replied that the invigorating effect of play-offs were obvious in other leagues.

 

On whether fans would buy into the status quo next season, he said he believed Scottish football would always play an important role in society here, despite the recessionary climate.

[weeyin]

So in summary.

 

1) No consolidation of the governing bodies.

 

2) No redistribution of income.

 

3) No expansion of the top flight.

 

4) A playoff structure that nobody has quite thought out

 

What's not to like?

[Brazilian]

and with the clutching at straws the powers that be once again fail to capitalise on the fact that they have just hosted a league championship, which was only decided a few weeks before season end....

 

Relegation is still not decided,

 

a Europa League prize has just been settled and one is still up for grabs,

 

and with only 3 weeks to go, every club is still playing to retain or improve league placings for prize money,

 

throw in, the fact that there has been a fair share of entertaining matches throughout the season and you've got to wonder why all their effort is put into saying change is needed

 

So instead of decrying the game and preaching the need for change

 

perhaps they should have moved on from the recent shambles and started selling our game.

[texanwellfan]

and with the clutching at straws the powers that be once again fail to capitalise on the fact that they have just hosted a league championship, which was only decided a few weeks before season end....

 

Relegation is still not decided,

 

a Europa League prize has just been settled and one is still up for grabs,

 

and with only 3 weeks to go, every club is still playing to retain or improve league placings for prize money,

 

throw in, the fact that there has been a fair share of entertaining matches throughout the season and you've got to wonder why all their effort is put into saying change is needed

 

So instead of decrying the game and preaching the need for change

 

perhaps they should have moved on from the recent shambles and started selling our game.

 

 

Indeed! They seem obsessed with this reconstruction crap and ignoring the things that could easily be improved upon as listed in Wee yins email.

[unknown]

Spl to breakaway from the SFL?

[Brazilian]

another meeting tomorrow http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22429484

 

 

Scotland's top-flight clubs consider play-offs and SPL2

 

 

Top-flight clubs will meet at Hampden Park on Tuesday for what is being billed as a final chance to reorganise Scottish football for next season.

 

And Dundee manager John Brown believes agreement is possible.

The relegated club have joined First Division clubs who want to break away from the Scottish Football League to form a second tier of the top flight.

"I think tomorrow could be the point where we get a decision," Brown told BBC Scotland.

 

Dundee, who were relegated on Sunday, have a foot in both camps as they will be able to speak for their future second-tier colleagues.

"What I'm hearing, there will be decisions made tomorrow and hopefully it's for the best of Scottish football," said Brown.

"We need to do it soon. We're becoming a mockery here. We need to come up with the answers."

 

The 12 Scottish Premier League clubs met last week to discuss a number of options for introducing play-offs between the top two divisions.

Since then, 10 clubs have sent a proposal to the SPL asking to join its ranks in a breakaway from the SFL.

It is understood there are three options other than the status quo that will be discussed by the 12 clubs.

 

One is the introduction of play-offs between the SPL and SFL.

 

The second is the introduction of play-offs in a new structure with a model that will redistribute finances from the top-flight to SFL clubs.

 

A third option is the possibility of an SPL2.

 

St Mirren and Ross County last month vetoed plans for a new merged structure with leagues of 12, 12 and 18.

They had been unconvinced of the merits of the proposed split of the top two divisions into three after 22 games.

Both clubs are understood to be more favourable towards play-offs, but no consensus was reached when the SPL clubs met to consider change last week.

Some clubs fear opening themselves up to a greater chance of relegation without the extra revenue the SPL claimed would be created by a mid-season split into three leagues of eight.

SFL chief executive David Longmuir has expressed his support for the introduction of play-offs for promotion and relegation between the top two tiers.

There are only five weeks left until the fixtures are due out, with the SPL season scheduled to start on 3 August.

However, it is understood that league officials are comfortable that any agreement could be put into action at any stage before the publication.

[Wellfan1984]

At an all-club meeting earlier today at Hampden Park, the 12 Scottish Premier League clubs unanimously agreed on a package of measures that would deliver a merged league in time for season 2013/2014.

 

The principles include:

 

- a single merged league of 42 clubs, in line with the stated preference of SFL1 clubs

- a 12-10-10-10 divisional structure

- an all-through distribution model involving substantial redistribution to the second tier

- a ‘pyramid’ for the entire game

- play-offs involving team 11 in the SPL and teams 2, 3 and 4 in the division below

 

A formal proposal to deliver the above will be brought back to the SPL clubs for voting this month.

 

The SPL looks forward to working with the Scottish FA and Scottish Football League to deliver vibrant change for the game as a whole.

 

Chairman Ralph Topping commented: "I am pleased that SPL clubs have today agreed on a way forward for the game in this country. We have tremendous sympathy with the SFL1 clubs and their plight and with their shared ambition for a 42-club solution.

 

"Much work needs to be done in a short space of time to achieve our objective of a single merged league this summer. But, where there is a will, there is a way. The time for action is now."