St Mirren Game On Thursday

[johnstone]

Right, did anyone watch this game???????????????????

 

Yeah I did.

 

 

Reading people on this forum saying why did hughes play???? Why did they take off fitz and not hughes? Were these people watching the game??????

 

Hughes and Fitzy should have both stayed on the park as both are better than Smith.

 

I dont give one fuck now, and i fucking mean it!!!!!! WHY THE FUCK WAS FITZPATRICK FUCKING PLAYING?????????? WHY???? WHAT THE FUCK DID HE DO????? WHAT???? TELL ME!!!

 

He was playing because he is an effective midfielder who broke up most of St Mirrens attacks on the left side.

 

 

Right, lets look at the midfield, were this cock plays!!!

 

Oooh getting personal now? Aren't you the big man!

 

Hughes for a start: Two shots on goal the whole fucking game: Hughes: two shots on goal! The boy might have done fuck all the whole game but the guy made a fucking effort to fucking score!

 

He almost scored a total peach and made some brilliant runs most of the game. Also he is a midfielder - how many shots on average should he be getting?

 

Jim: Made runs towards goal, made his present felt and and set up the shots for hughes! Was the only threat towards St Mirren! And Clarkson with no help from Sheridan, fucking clumsey!

 

Agree that Jim was a threat. Sheridan had a poor first half, but thought he did really well in the second. Clarky had a shocker all night.

 

Kilmpel: Was getting stuck in, making his present felt in midfeild making sure no one was getting by him! Showed a bit of strength and you knew when you saw him next to a player that was on the ball he was gona get his foot in no matter what side of the player he was on!!!

 

He kept Dorman quiet, but some of his passing was very poor. He seemed to be slicing it all the time. Too much Slovak Vodka?

 

Fitzpatrick: Right, i'm gona be nice to the boy here, but he was fucking shite!!!!!! What the fuck good did he do????????? WHAT????? I dont give one fuck what people think saying "lets get behind the boy" come one "the guy needs our support"! You know what, the guy needs to get a kick up the fucking arse!!! I'm all for getting behind the team "the team"!!!! But when theres a weakness in "the team" GET IT TO FUCK"

 

Here we go again! Why not get stuck into Quinn or Clarky too. They played much worse than Fitzy?

 

And another thing, why the fuck was Sutton not starting??? Why the fuck has he not started in the last three games??? Is he not scoring goals??? Whats he doing wrong?? The guy only had 5 mins to shine.

 

I'll tell you why - cos he has done nothing to merit a start. He is slow and has no impact when he comes on. Sheridan at least looks a threat and with a bit of luck could have got a goal last night.

 

 

I'm sorry, but two fucking shots on goal is no good!!!! WAIT, its no good , its fucking no where near our play!! ITS FUCKING SHITE!!!!!!!!!!

 

St Mirren played the perfect stifiling game last night and Gus McPherson got his tactics spot on - he stopped us playing and he played the counter attack. The odd goal was going to win it.

 

Now does that not make more sense than coming on here and starting a totally pish rant that makes no sense?

[Welldel]

Don't get me wrong, I reckon Sheriden looks not a bad player and Sutton had dropped our of the team before Porter left. Jus thtat we should be trying all options, I had expected us to go back to a 4-3-3 with Clarkson, Sutton and Murphy doing the McCormack role.

[steelman1991]

Had to leave this till this morning, so 'down' after last night - you'd think after nearly 45 years I would get used to this, but I just don't .

 

Echo much of the sentiment from other posters, but in my eyes the 2 differences between the teams last night involved the front two pairings. St Mirren - in Billy Mehmet had an agile, hard-working centre with the ability to win his fair share of headers and who is no slouch on the ground - similarily so Dennis Wyness. They had the ability and technical nouse to hold-up the ball, allowing their midfield to move forward at pace and link the play.

 

Fast forward up the park and what did we have, 2 front men who's second touch was invariably a tackle, therefore making it easy for the St Mirren back four to step forward and take control. There just wasn't any co-hesion in our play and sadly this has been evident for most of the season.

 

We could analyse the tatics all day and never reach a consensus, but in my eyes, the front two and midfield, have to bear the brunt of the critisicm in this respect. Its all good and well Sheridan winning the odd header (which given his physical presence he should do more often than not, sadly he seems not to), but unless the partner is capable of basic ball control, then its a pointless and futile exercise. There were few if any occasions when the midfield got beyond the front two. There just seems to be a team mentality, or perhaps management instructions to get the ball from front to back as quickly as possible - an admirable tactic if you have the players capable of performing the basics, collect hold and pass. Neither the starting 2, or for that matter John Sutton seem capable of carrying out that task.

 

Anyway rant over, though one quick pointer to Mark McGhee, come and sit with us behind the goals and watch our 'expansive' team pattern squeeze the game into one half of the park at every opportunity - honestly its like watching a ballroom formation dancing team. Left-sided bye kick, everyone move to the left, same from the right.

[Malky79]

Thank you, at least someone who agrees

 

I am missing the "next step" by Clarkson. People say he is still young and stuff, but he is 23 already, when does he want to improve? When will he turn into the player everyone thought he would be?

 

If Clarkson would play for any other team, he would get pelters as well and people would laugh at him and question his ability.

 

But again as you said, it wasnt about Clarkson alone last night.

 

About Sheridan: Somehow I do like him. You can see he can do damage to teams, yet he doesnt gel with the team yet.

 

I'll go as far as to say that yes Clarkson is not a lead the line striker, he isn't Porter and that yes he'll definately miss Porters presence and that he had a mare last night. But this kind of posting annoys the life out of me. Clarkson has been a consistently good player for more than a season and a half now, yet one bad game and the people that have been having to bite their tongues instantly jump on the guy.

 

If you can't see the improvement in Clarkson from the player of 2,3,4 seasons ago I can only assume you are blind. 50 goals in 240 games, fine it doesn't sound all that impressive but who cares we all know he had like 3 seasons where he could hardly buy a goal, frustrating as hell as that was I'm deligted with his general return in the last two seasons, something like 23 goals and I fancy he'll crack in a few more before end of this season.

 

Clarkson has developed physically, he improved his finishing, he added creativity and invention to his play, his touch still isn't Bergkampesque but it still a hell of a lot better than what it was. Maybe he not quite top drawer and worthy of international caps but he no worse than Kenny Miller.

 

Clarkson is one of our key players and I hope we have him for a good while yet, last night will soon be forgotten about and I don't doubt Clarkson will have more good games than bad between now and the end of the season.

[Malky79]

As for Fitzpatrick the other scapegoat. Only recall the one poor effort of a cross where he gifted possession, so I take issue with idea that he as giving the ball away left right and centre. I think he tends to do an unglamourous job fairly well. Played alright but was probalby right player to sub when you looking to take the game to opponent. Fact that they score attacking down his side whilst he was off I think is as much to do with the mistakes we made individually rather than his absence.

[Mic2904]

I'll go as far as to say that yes Clarkson is not a lead the line striker, he isn't Porter and that yes he'll definately miss Porters presence and that he had a mare last night. But this kind of posting annoys the life out of me. Clarkson has been a consistently good player for more than a season and a half now, yet one bad game and the people that have been having to bite their tongues instantly jump on the guy.

 

If you can't see the improvement in Clarkson from the player of 2,3,4 seasons ago I can only assume you are blind. 50 goals in 240 games, fine it doesn't sound all that impressive but who cares we all know he had like 3 seasons where he could hardly buy a goal, frustrating as hell as that was I'm deligted with his general return in the last two seasons, something like 23 goals and I fancy he'll crack in a few more before end of this season.

 

Clarkson has developed physically, he improved his finishing, he added creativity and invention to his play, his touch still isn't Bergkampesque but it still a hell of a lot better than what it was. Maybe he not quite top drawer and worthy of international caps but he no worse than Kenny Miller.

 

Clarkson is one of our key players and I hope we have him for a good while yet, last night will soon be forgotten about and I don't doubt Clarkson will have more good games than bad between now and the end of the season.

 

First of all, I dont mind you having your opinion. I have my opinion.

 

And I do stand to my point. Consistently good player? I dont think so. I said before in various threads, that he can have good games and score goals and I do appriciate the goals he scored and yes, I can see he has improved, but from which level to which? imho its an improvement from being a crappy player with no skills to an average striker with little skills and having him as an important player maybe says a lot about the team Motherwell has the now.

 

I stick to my point: Clarkson is an average striker. Kind of player you find hundreds in Scotland. Although probably not as team-bound as Clarkson is.

 

At this point of Clarksons carreer, he should be much better to be great player.

 

As for your Kenny Miller point: Have you seen Millers goals against (poor) Forfar??

[Malky79]

Of course Clarkson isn't a great player. Great players don't tend to stay at a club like ours for very long. We struggle even to hold onto good ones. He is a great player for us but that doesn't mean I think he is actucally great in the sense that you can compare him him favourably with top level players.

 

But to say there are hundreds of players in Scotland like Clarkson is nonsense, there are maybe plenty people that could be technically as good but we all know lots of players don't make it in football for a bundle of different reasons. Clarkson has been an effective player for us, granted he isn't always the most graceful to watch but he scores goals, he creates goals and he works harder than most. He clearly has some character and heart to come through what he has, not just the Phil thing but the years when he seemed to be getting nowhere he has come through stronger despite dogs abuse from large section of fans. Most fans appreciate him now for what he does give us.

 

If you think that this is a poor reflection on us that a player of his ability is considered good then I think you underestimate the general poor quality of football in this country and our ability as a club to hold onto talent.

 

I did see millers goals, though not sure of the relavence they didn't really stick out. One was a header from about a yard out and don't remember the other.

[Hampden'91]

We looked again last night in a team lacking in confidence. We have stepped back a few years and are trying to walk the ball into the net rather than having the confidence to have a strike from outside the box. We seem to have lost the form to play fast passing football rather than lumping the ball up the park and missing out midfield altogether. Was hoping the win on Saturday would give team a boosted, but it just seemed like a continuation of the way we played on Saturday.

 

Hopefully a win on Sunday back on our ploughed field will give the required injection of confidence.

[Well Up For It!]

Once again we are back to the whole Fizzy situation. I think the facy it keeps appearing on these ere forums in countless threads says it all.

 

He is a good professional, a nice lad and someone who will always give you that 110% effort....

 

However, the sad matter is he is not good enough for the SPL. Yeah he offers something diffrent being left footed, but I just don't think that's enough. In the few years since he broke into the team he has had one or two oustanding games, and maybe a couple of dozen average games. The rest of the time he seems out his depth. I don't like to beat up on our own players - especially the home grown ones - but I am baffled that he is consistantly picked over Lasley, Murphy and even McGarry.

 

It is said that if you don't notice a player in a game particuallarly, then they are effective. But far too often are we noticing Fizzys below par performances. And while he wasn't the worse player on the park last night, he was his usual unispirring self.

 

I hope he goes on to prove me wrong, but it's been too long in comming and maybe now is the time to let him go...

 

And if and when he does, he will have my best wishes simply for the way he has conducted himself and the effort he has put in during his time at the club.

[Hampden'91]

And this type of criticism is going to help build his confidence how ? Is the fact that he does give 110% the very reason why any mistakes are highlighted the fact he is covering more of the park than most. If some of our squad gave similar amounts of effort it might not fall on Klimpl and Fitzpatrick to do all the running !!!

[mon_da_well]

I honestly cannot believe some folk are slating Fitzpatrick before Hughes.

[Well Up For It!]

Clarky was shocking last night, but I think he definately has something to offer the club. He is the most inconsistent player at the club, and probably has the worst touch of any proffesional player i've ever seen in my life - but his energy, work-rate, determination and flukiness make him worth having.

 

He is by no means a Scotland international in my eyes - my Scotland fan head is shocked he keeps getting selected! But yet he did score that goal!

 

I think Clarky's lack of technical skill is his greatest weakness and biggest assest. How many times have we seen his miscontrol totally fooling the opposition and leading to a goal? How many times have we seen a first touch that went wild but allowed Clarky to beat a man?

 

He goes on wee runs of form and last season was his best, and most consistent, and I think a lot of that had to do with the workrate of Big Ports. Was never my shout for player of the season though - should have been Shug or Ports - but that's another argument.

 

But 50 goals in well over 200 appearances tell it's own story about Clarky...

[Well Up For It!]

And this type of criticism is going to help build his confidence how ? Is the fact that he does give 110% the very reason why any mistakes are highlighted the fact he is covering more of the park than most. If some of our squad gave similar amounts of effort it might not fall on Klimpl and Fitzpatrick to do all the running !!!

 

Out of all the midfielders we have in our squad Lasley has the highest workrate and by far covers the most ground! But covering ground is no emphasis for a starting place - just means you are fit. Sometimes I think Fizzy is like a headless chicken running about the park - and even after a good few season in the first team squad - he still looks way out of his depth.

 

And thats the sad fact of the matter.

[Brazilian]

Out of all the midfielders we have in our squad Lasley has the highest workrate and by far covers the most ground! But covering ground is no emphasis for a starting place - just means you are fit. Sometimes I think Fizzy is like a headless chicken running about the park - and even after a good few season in the first team squad - he still looks way out of his depth.

 

And thats the sad fact of the matter.

 

No it is not, that is your OPINION on the matter

 

As Motherwell fans we all like a moan now and again but the abuse Fizzy gets is unbelievable

 

there were easily 4 or 5 players who had a worse game and made more mistakes that were more costly to the side last night than him, but they don't get half the abuse if any.

 

I'd say that McGhee put out just about our strongest side last night (personally Sutton for Sheridan for me).

 

But too many of the players were too nervous in front of goal or around the box, and its quite obvious Fitzpatrick isn't being asked to attack the wings and get in crosses or hit the penalty spot thats for others to do, which THEY didn't

 

we could easily have scored 3 or 4 last night but for some reason the players that were going forward, too often were nervous with the final ball or shot, always trying one more turn or one more pass.

 

St. Mirren very rarely won the ball back in their box, we gave them it

 

McGhee says we were practising penalties, perhaps we should be practising Shooting and set pieces because that is where we lost the match last night IMHO

[Well Up For It!]

But too many of the players were too nervous in front of goal or around the box, and its quite obvious Fitzpatrick isn't being asked to attack the wings and get in crosses or hit the penalty spot thats for others to do, which THEY didn't

 

 

Yeah your right - because he isn't a winger, doesn't have the skillset. And he's not the greatest passer either. He playes wide left because he has a left foot as that's McGhee's philosophy. I'm eager to see what our new Turkish boy can do once fit...

 

Just out of curiosity, if we had a natural left winger in the squad who done a job for us - would you play Fizzy and if so where? And at the expense of who?

 

Point is, IN MY OPINION, he is all we have and we have to make do.

[Brazilian]

Just out of curiosity, if we had a natural left winger in the squad who done a job for us - would you play Fizzy and if so where? And at the expense of who?

 

 

I'd play:

................Buzz

Saunders, Craggs, Reynolds

.....Lasley, Klimpl, Fizzy/Hammell

O'Brien & natural left winger you talk off

..........Sutton & Clarkson

 

So it would be a choice of Hammy or Fizzy for me, along with Lasley at the expense of Hughes, but I don't think any pro-manager would go with that type of setup

 

McGhee would stick with his 4-3-3 or 4-4-2

 

and utilise only one winger at a time or two wingers and one striker

[Lobey_Dosser]

We are shite without Chris Porter.

 

We happily took a few hundred grand over any sense of ambition. Last nigts inept performance was symbolic of such ambition.

[WellArmy_88]

Just put my self through watching the highlights. Bad goal to lose trying to play offside at that stage of the game is a disgrace.

[Leroy Trusco]

Can I just clear up this misconception about Fitzpatrick. I've seen a number of posts giving it the "he does an unfashionable job well" or similar. He's playing on the left wing! That's not unfashionable in the slightest!! It's probably one of the more "fashionable" positions on the park!

 

If he was playing in Klimpl's position, wining the ball, making short passes and tracking opposition runs from midfield then fine. Problem is that he is playing in a position where you require a) a touch, b) some sort of ability to cross and shoot c) a trick or at least the pace to beat a man. I'm not slating the guy for the sake of slating him. After all, he doesn't pick himself in that position but I can see why he gets pelters cos he doesn't have the basic tools to play on th left side of a very limited midfield 4. Moreover, if he doesn't have these basic skills he should not be playing for a team with hopes of good cup runs and European football.

 

I admire his work ethic but that's not enough and it's glaringly obvious that it's never going to happen for him at Fir Park so maybe it'd be best to give someone else a try and let the guy find his level which I suspect is Div 1. Would that not be better for all parties concerned?

[Brazilian]

You've cleared nothing up as usual just another one spouting of pish in my opinion due to a blinkered view on the lad

 

He is not playing on the Left wing

 

he is playing on the left hand side of the midfield

 

doing a job very similar to Klimpl does in the middle

[fatcalf]

So it would be a choice of Hammy or Fizzy for me, along with Lasley at the expense of Hughes, but I don't think any pro-manager would go with that type of setup

Would a Champ Manager go with it though, that's where a lot of our fans seem to think the real world exists anyway

[Lobey_Dosser]

I like Fitzpatrick in the middle but do we really need a defensive left sided midfielder against St Mirrren?

 

Stick him on the left side of a midfield 3 and we'll get the best out of him.

[MJC_MKI]

I did notice last night that people are finally realizing what I have advocated on here for long & weary, & that is exactly as you say mate, David Clarkson is NOT the wonder player & striker he is heralded to be, he is average, push first touch, no control, & was clearly carried for the last season and half by a great striker in Porter! I told my good friend Big Stall that he could not step up now the big man has left & would again be found out, & here we are. All this shite after Saturday is bollocks, 50 goals and here's to 50 more, 240 games tells it's own story! At best he is a squad player, if he were any better he too would have moved on with the likes of Faddy, Pearson, Rossco, Porter....again tells it's own story! Fizzy gets fuching pelters in a second for the kind of passes Clarkson has served up for years and gets " bad pass Davy, good idea though, head up!"

 

 

Clarkson is not an out and out goalscorer, he never was. I agree he had a poor game last night but he is very much a key player in our side and has improved greatly as a footballer over the last two years. His workrate is phenominal, his link up play improving, albeit he looked alot better when Porter was in the side and he is able to grab some goals here and there. Don't get me wrong, I find him absolutely infuriating at times especially with some of the chances he misses by either taking one touch too many or opting to pass instead of shoot when in a good position.

 

Clarkson is a fan's favourite and I know he gets a lighter ride of it than some others, but that's to be expected given the fact that 1) he's 'one of our own' in the sense that he came through our youth ranks, and 2) he is the nephew of our Late, great former Cup Winner and Captain Phil O'Donnell. Like it or not, that holds a lot of sway with the fans, particularly with the way he conducted himself in the immediate aftermath of Phil's death last year.

[Brazilian]

I sort of agree Lobey , but since we lost the goal throught that channel we probably did need a player there, albeit who's to say he would have been in position to stop it??

 

Mair like Chump manager fatcalf, every player playing to the best of their ability would be nice to see week in week out

 

Edit: i'm away for a lie down before the world Implodes, either that or someones taken over MJCs persona

[Well Up For It!]

You've cleared nothing up as usual just another one spouting of pish in my opinion due to a blinkered view on the lad

 

He is not playing on the Left wing

 

he is playing on the left hand side of the midfield

 

doing a job very similar to Klimpl does in the middle

 

Now that's just nonsense!!

 

Klimpl has shown much more in a dozen games than Fizzy has in his entire career!! Leroy has got it spot on. We all know - and accept - he isn't cut out for left midefield, and as a defensive midfielder he isn't near the standard of Klimpl and Lasley. He should be a back up player and no more - yet because we have few lefties in the squad he is starting and ultimately costing us.