Update From The Mfc Board

[Toxteth O'Grady]

Thought this deserved its own thread:

 

Update from the Board: June 2013

[Welldaft Mk1]

Quite worrying reading between the lines.

 

Despite a successful season we will be trading at a loss. The club mentions how another round in the cup would have possibly led to break even. What about the 2 Euro games that combined brought 15000 paying punters. My ticket for the Pana game was £40! That plus finishing 3rd in the SPL.

 

We are obviously running the club on a budget that is not sustainable and could be quite damaging were we to have a disastrous season.

 

They are a sensible bunch the Board or so it would seem. I guess all these players leaving is no bad thing as it allows them to bring the wage bill into line with what we can afford. It does mean that we cannot offer that attractive a salary to players we are after.

[sbcmfc]

I still don't understand how we made less than expected from the cups?

 

Surely playing rangers at ibrox with a 35000 or so crowd is the equivalent of 7 games in front of 5000? Even 5 knocking the 1st 10,000 fans off for costs.

 

In the Scottish cup we drew a decent size team in Aberdeen and had a replay, so had 2 games.

 

Were we expected to get to the final of both cups? Or play both halves of the old firm in both cups?

[Frazzie]

Very, very concerned reading these figures.

[JimH]

I have been concerned about the budgeting at the Club ever since the first Well Society meeting when it was stated from the directors that we budget for a top 6 finish and a good run in both cups. I thought at the time that it was lunacy!

 

I am also concerned that "The financial position of the club was assisted by the initial share subscription from the Well Society of £150,000". I was under the impression that the shares were gifted to the Society ( to be handed over when financial targets were met), not that they had to be purchased, and that the money would be purely a loan to the club at times of cash flow problems.

 

I therefore thought that my contribution was always going to be there, either in the Well Society account or as part of a loan to Motherwell FC - not that it would be used to "purchase" shares when the club required cash.

[Well Well]

No debt and a small loss. No bank loans. As far as I can see the Board have done a great job juggling all the finances. To tell you the truth I am amazed at how well this club is run, the manager we have the position we have held in the league and the amount of European football we have been playing in recent years. Considering the size of the club and its support we have had an amazing run.

When we look at the massive upheaval in the league, lack of sponsors for the league, low TV money I think we should be giving the board medals for all they have achieved and think it is pretty unfair on those folk on here who have a dig re how the figures supposedly don't add up. Remember we lost a shit load of money when the figures were readjusted for 2nd placed prize money. When directors pay for players out their own pocket then I will applaud them, this is their own money and they didn't need to do it and they wouldn't have been criticised.

 

Best thing as a support we can do is hear the call for season ticket renewals and those swithering whether to take a season ticket if they haven't had one for a while and continue to pay their season tickets and support the club. I think its not hard to work out that the club will probably base a lot of what they can afford for players contracts on season ticket money each season. So its imperative we renew season tickets asap so we can get the players we need to rebuild the squad.

The fans have done brilliantly by raising a phenomenal amount of money through the Well society and I hope it continues to grow. We have 2 directors on the board and I don't see any hidden agenda regarding where that money goes whether it is gifted or used to purchase shares as long as the money goes to the club. Remember, they haven't touched that £150k, it's still in the bank and its ring fenced so I don't see any issues.

 

We are a well run club with astute people running it and well ahead of most clubs in the SPL so I don't see the need for the paranoia and concern on here. I am glad the club keep us informed and we should continue to support that too. So stop being so negative and look forward to another good season supporting the Well. There are steady hands at the helm of the Ark.

[steelboy]

paying 150,000 for 6% values a club that no one wants to buy and will never make anyone a profit at 2.5m.

 

I was under the impression that boyle gifted his shares to the fans. It has now been confirmed that he gifted them to the current board and they intend to sell them gradually to the society to underwritw their running of the club.

 

Where does this leave fan ownership? Most people thought that it was a case of raising 1.5m then taking control and using those funds as a safety net. Now it looks like it will cost over 1m to take control of the club which either means another million or so is still needed to provide the cash reserve or the society takes over without a pot to piss in which would be suicide.

 

The society board seem to be doing whatever the board tells them. Giving away a 1/3 of the money raised for 6% is madness never mind accepting the boards valuation of the club without any negogiation.

[Well Well]

paying 150,000 for 6% values a club that no one wants to buy and will never make anyone a profit at 2.5m.

 

I was under the impression that boyle gifted his shares to the fans. It has now been confirmed that he gifted them to the current board and they intend to sell them gradually to the society to underwritw their running of the club.

 

Where does this leave fan ownership? Most people thought that it was a case of raising 1.5m then taking control and using those funds as a safety net. Now it looks like it will cost over 1m to take control of the club which either means another million or so is still needed to provide the cash reserve or the society takes over without a pot to piss in which would be suicide.

 

The society board seem to be doing whatever the board tells them. Giving away a 1/3 of the money raised for 6% is madness never mind accepting the boards valuation of the club without any negogiation.

 

You are one of those on here who has to moan at everything the club does. Seriously, you accuse the Society of 'giving' away money..?? That money is invested in the club pure and simple. It is still there and hasn't been used, whats the problem. The Society have two board members who can see quite clearly where and how the money will be used. If I could afford more the club would get it because I know they value every penny raised. Get a fucking grip, stop seeing problems when there are none. There are no Craig Whyte characters here and stop making out there are. The club have posted profits recently unless you just want to ignore that to justify your small minded argument. I don't care about someone buying the club anyway, we are doing quite well as it is. I just need to look at Hearts to see what happens when someone owns the club, No Thanks. So No one wants to buy...Brilliant...making a profit, yes we have and will continue to do so, some years we make a loss others we will make a small profit. As long as that profit when its made is invested in the club and not paying off interest on Bank Loans I will much prefer having the club the way it is, run prudently.

I suppose your idea of fan ownership is 30 punters from Jack Daniels making the decisions, well lets see how quickly the club lasts then.

[nethertonwellfan]

Did Boyle not gift his shares to the Club?

 

John Boyle will not receive any money for the shares but the club will which they will use in cash flow shortages. I don't really see the problem to be honest.

 

 

[steelboy]

the problems are

 

1. If the club spend all the society money during their loss makin seasons what will the society use to run the club when it takes over

 

2. When this was discussed on the society thread everyone including on the ball posters like andy p and weeyin thot the shares were gifted to the fans. How did we all get this so wrong?

[Onthefringes]

You are one of those on here who has to moan at everything the club does. Seriously, you accuse the Society of 'giving' away money..?? That money is invested in the club pure and simple. It is still there and hasn't been used, whats the problem. The Society have two board members who can see quite clearly where and how the money will be used. If I could afford more the club would get it because I know they value every penny raised. Get a fucking grip, stop seeing problems when there are none. There are no Craig Whyte characters here and stop making out there are. The club have posted profits recently unless you just want to ignore that to justify your small minded argument. I don't care about someone buying the club anyway, we are doing quite well as it is. I just need to look at Hearts to see what happens when someone owns the club, No Thanks. So No one wants to buy...Brilliant...making a profit, yes we have and will continue to do so, some years we make a loss others we will make a small profit. As long as that profit when its made is invested in the club and not paying off interest on Bank Loans I will much prefer having the club the way it is, run prudently.

I suppose your idea of fan ownership is 30 punters from Jack Daniels making the decisions, well lets see how quickly the club lasts then.

Hark at you! Failing to see the holes in steelboys' argument that you can Don't let the prejudice get in the way of the glee club eh? As for the reference to a Craig Whyte character? Folly.

 

Understanding we are where we are as a club and appreciative of the effort by others to maintain our standing, but, doubt you'll be able to defend the indefensible here. As I've highlighted... The Society have two board members? Aye, and one in particular appears to be a 'stooge'.

 

Money invested in the club? So we as members will see a return on said investment? Not exactly how I seen my gift being utilised, perhaps the Society will liaise with their membership instead of heralding their various lines of communication that do little communicating?

[sbcmfc]

I think we should be giving the board medals for all they have achieved and think it is pretty unfair on those folk on here who have a dig re how the figures supposedly don't add up.

 

I'm really pleased with how things are going on and off the park.

 

My intention wasnt to criticise how the club is being run, as on the whole it's being run well, especially considering the current financial climate in general, not just in Scottish football.

 

But...

 

Although we fell at the 1st hurdle in both cups, I'd say we made the most money we could falling at the 1st hurdle, with a total attendance of ~ 50,000 at the 3 games, 2 of which were televised, leading me to question what were our expectations?

 

We would really need to have got to a Scottish cup semi final or a league cup final to have made similar income without playing one of the old firm. (As I see it, I don't know the full mechanics of how money is made from domestic cups).

[Andy_P]

The more I learn the more unclear about things I become, either that or I have well off the mark in my understanding of how the Well Society would operate in conjuction with the club.

 

My interpretation was the shares were benefacted by John Boyle to Motherwell FC to be used to move the club towards fan ownership and never again would one single person have overall control etc.

 

I got the clear impression that these shares would be transferred to the Well Society when it reached a particular stage in its development. For example we had to achieve the £250,000 to demonstrate enough interest to actually have the Society constituted. Thereafter Well Society board members would become part of the Motherwell FC board and further control would gradually be passed in stages as sufficient finance was accrued to demonstrate the Society had the financial capabilities until full control would eventually be passed to the Society.

 

I don't ever recall hearing that to receive those shares the Well Society actually had to buy them from the club.

 

The discussion around financial support seemed to suggest that the Well Society would act as a form of interest free overdraft for Motherwell FC, the period between January and the end of the season being specifically mentioned. And when the club received monies due from the SPL and others generally towards the summer months, those funds that had been supplied by the Well Society to support the club in that difficult time would be returned.

 

This would not seem to be the case going by recent events and leaves me somewhat confused as to what target we are working towards to take full control, and how the actual workings of any financial support provided by the Well Society is conducted. I get the impression I'm not alone in that regard.

 

For me it would do no harm at all for the a bit of clearing up on these matters by the Well Society board here so confidence built up in the Society is not lost.

[weeyin]

As I understand it (and I'm no doubt out of touch with the UK financial laws these days), a "share subscription" (the term used in the email) is a right to buy shares at a specified future date or during specified periods at a predetermined price - it's not the actual purchase of shares.

 

So it's possible, for example, that the club was able to secure funds on the 150k subscription without any purchase of shares having taken place yet.

 

I agree we need more details, but let's focus on the facts rather than speculation.

[Lobey_Dosser]

Alarming albeit expected that we made a loss despite finishing 2nd and making a wedge from gate receipts against Panathanikos, Levante and Rangers.

 

There is no disputing that the club has been ran well in recent years but the idea of budgeting for top 6 and decent cup runs is an incredibly risky model for a business with no debt facility.

 

Not up to scratch with 'Well Society but I've had huge doubts about its viability from day 1.

[andalg]

paying 150,000 for 6% values a club that no one wants to buy and will never make anyone a profit at 2.5m.

 

I was under the impression that boyle gifted his shares to the fans. It has now been confirmed that he gifted them to the current board and they intend to sell them gradually to the society to underwritw their running of the club.

 

Where does this leave fan ownership? Most people thought that it was a case of raising 1.5m then taking control and using those funds as a safety net. Now it looks like it will cost over 1m to take control of the club which either means another million or so is still needed to provide the cash reserve or the society takes over without a pot to piss in which would be suicide.

 

The society board seem to be doing whatever the board tells them. Giving away a 1/3 of the money raised for 6% is madness never mind accepting the boards valuation of the club without any negogiation.

 

 

If the Well Society paid £1 million to get full ownership, as you suggest, would that money not just transfer from the society bank account to the club bank account to be used by the club when agreed by the board which by then should have more society members on it. At the end of the day the idea of the society was to help the club not just to keep the money in the bank

[steelboy]

if the club don't spend the money which seems highly umlikely given our financial problems.

 

The society's own charter states that the primary goal of the society is to obtain a the controlling interest in the club. It looks at the moment like the society exists to give dempster, weir, mcmahon and wilson money to run the club without putting their hands in their pockets.

 

Could someone from the club or society give us an estimate if how much money has to be raised to take control?

 

And as onthefringes said communication from the chairman has been non existent since his election. Do we have another martin rose on our hands.

[ClaretAndBamber]

It looks at the moment like the society exists to give dempster, weir, mcmahon and wilson money to run the club without putting their hands in their pockets.

 

 

 

I think this is unfair. Why should they put their hands in their pockets? Also, did they not do this to fund Faddy's return?

 

 

Could someone from the club or society give us an estimate if how much money has to be raised to take control?

 

 

 

I don't work for the club but I am a society member. I thought it was clear from the start that £1.5m would have to be raised in order to get a majority shareholding (51% I believe). The recent statement said "The Society currently has 1,164 members and has to date raised close to £420,000, 28% of the original target." - according to my maths this ties back to the £1.5m target.

 

£150,000 of this £420,000 has been transferred to the club and can be used when liquidity problems arise (without a bank credit facility this is essential). The club can use it and then replace it when cash is received.

 

While it's great that £420k has been raised so far I think that the target is unreachable in the short term (

[steelboy]

I think this is unfair. Why should they put their hands in their pockets? Also, did they not do this to fund Faddy's return?

 

 

 

because expecting to use other people's money to fund the losses they are running up is unfair. i can't say i'm impressed by paying for faddy and knocking back six figure offers for ojamaa whilst running a six figure lost and relieving the society of over a third of the money raised.

 

why couldn't they stick to the model outlined at meetings of short term interest free loans from the society rather than just taking the money from the society?

[Tamwell]

Cheer the fuck up Steelboy. Only you could turn signing James McFadden and the club not selling ojamaa for buttons into a negative. Boring.

[Well Well]

because expecting to use other people's money to fund the losses they are running up is unfair. i can't say i'm impressed by paying for faddy and knocking back six figure offers for ojamaa whilst running a six figure lost and relieving the society of over a third of the money raised.

 

why couldn't they stick to the model outlined at meetings of short term interest free loans from the society rather than just taking the money from the society?

 

What the fuck is it with you folk, 'what return are we getting' 'paying for faddy from their own pocket isn't impressive' 'knocking back six figure offers'

 

1. The return we get is putting a succesful team on the park, not getting into debt via banks and having financially prudent people on the board, ensuring the survuval of the club. I think the 'return' since administration has been pretty bloody good.

2. The signing of Faddy I feel was crucial in us gaining momentum at a sticky point in the league and secured 2nd place. Those people paid out a fair whack of their own money for NO RETURN, are they moaning online about a 'return'..?

3. The bid for Ojamma was quite rightly kicked out as he is under contract and did not meet the valuation of the player by the club. Almost universally on here the bid was regarded as a joke. It is very easy for clubs to make a low bid but with big add ons in the full knowledge they will never pay the add ons as they either sell the player before the add ons kick in or just don't play them.

4. 'Using other people money to fund the losses', I think you will find that everyone who invested in the club via the society were not forced to part with their cash and could make their own decisions. The way you paint it they are running up horrendous losses. If the 2nd place cash was still in place the club would have made a tidy profit.

5. I would rather the club which as far as I can see are being as open as possible about what they are doing with the money, which at this point is bugger all and its gathering interest in an account. So the society hasn't funded any losses. They are damned if the provide information and damned when they don't. The club cannot win in your eyes. Every single year your criticise the players we sign, the board for releasing information or not releasing information, How the club runs itself, How we sell players and how much we should accept. You should try for a seat on the board but I can almost guarantee that if you were in charge the club we would be defunct within a year.

 

Give the club a break, Also the idea that a person voted onto the board by well society members is a stooge is a complete and utter joke. IF you were that concerned why didn't you put yourself forward. No, because its easier to criticise those standing up and making a difference than actually going out and trying to do it yourself. I despair at some of you..The most pessimistic, paranoid and self defeatist people I have the misfortune to listen too. If its not doom and gloom then its conspiracy. Get a life. The club is doing pretty well for a club its size and they are looking to us to renew season tickets so lets get it done and look forward to another great season supporting the Well. We have secured a number of current sponsors for another year or so and we are increasing our footprint in the community with all the partnership stuff so we are heading in the right direction.

[two_sevens]

Well said.

[Onthefringes]

What the fuck is it with you folk, 'what return are we getting' 'paying for faddy from their own pocket isn't impressive' 'knocking back six figure offers'

 

1. The return we get is putting a succesful team on the park, not getting into debt via banks and having financially prudent people on the board, ensuring the survuval of the club. I think the 'return' since administration has been pretty bloody good.

2. The signing of Faddy I feel was crucial in us gaining momentum at a sticky point in the league and secured 2nd place. Those people paid out a fair whack of their own money for NO RETURN, are they moaning online about a 'return'..?

3. The bid for Ojamma was quite rightly kicked out as he is under contract and did not meet the valuation of the player by the club. Almost universally on here the bid was regarded as a joke. It is very easy for clubs to make a low bid but with big add ons in the full knowledge they will never pay the add ons as they either sell the player before the add ons kick in or just don't play them.

4. 'Using other people money to fund the losses', I think you will find that everyone who invested in the club via the society were not forced to part with their cash and could make their own decisions. The way you paint it they are running up horrendous losses. If the 2nd place cash was still in place the club would have made a tidy profit.

5. I would rather the club which as far as I can see are being as open as possible about what they are doing with the money, which at this point is bugger all and its gathering interest in an account. So the society hasn't funded any losses. They are damned if the provide information and damned when they don't. The club cannot win in your eyes. Every single year your criticise the players we sign, the board for releasing information or not releasing information, How the club runs itself, How we sell players and how much we should accept. You should try for a seat on the board but I can almost guarantee that if you were in charge the club we would be defunct within a year.

 

Give the club a break, Also the idea that a person voted onto the board by well society members is a stooge is a complete and utter joke. IF you were that concerned why didn't you put yourself forward. No, because its easier to criticise those standing up and making a difference than actually going out and trying to do it yourself. I despair at some of you..The most pessimistic, paranoid and self defeatist people I have the misfortune to listen too. If its not doom and gloom then its conspiracy. Get a life. The club is doing pretty well for a club its size and they are looking to us to renew season tickets so lets get it done and look forward to another great season supporting the Well. We have secured a number of current sponsors for another year or so and we are increasing our footprint in the community with all the partnership stuff so we are heading in the right direction.

The Glee Club is alive and well!

[Well Well]

The Glee Club is alive and well!

 

I rest my case..

[Onthefringes]

I rest my case..

Eh?

 

Do us a favour and leave out the 'stand by me' speech. Nobody is denying the club hasn't performed, but, as has been said before, blind positivety doesn't paper over the cracks. Hence, the Glee Club reference.

 

Been a long time since I've felt the need to criticise the club as I'm fully understanding of we are where we are, but, more than one has stated reservation as to how the funds raised are appropriated. This being the main point of steelboys' posts, perhaps if you could rationalise your posts instead of deflecting by telling us how to be a better fan and how everything in the garden is rosy the better the debate no?