Bop Posted August 2, 2013 Report Share Posted August 2, 2013 Rosenborg are pish. They have more money in Norway but decent players just obviously dont fancy it, the standard is terrible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underboyleheating Posted August 2, 2013 Report Share Posted August 2, 2013 I don't know if we can be so sure that Rosenborg and Kuban are of a similar pedigree as you suggest I reckon with their recent exploits in Europe Rosenborg are probably on a par technically with FC Kuban. If they met, there would be very little between the sides. Kuban were an okay team, however they would be no match for the likes of Swansea who beat Malmo in a canter last night. I could be wrong, but I reckon FC Kuban will not be going too far in this competition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fal_Dosser Posted August 2, 2013 Report Share Posted August 2, 2013 UBH. To an extent I don't disagree with what you are saying. I am happy for Saints, but by the sound of things enjoyed a fair amount of luck in the 2 ties v Rosenberg. Plus being a Nordic side, their style is more like our UK style. Good luck to them and I hope they get through to the play off round. But I would happily bet my house on Levante, Pana and Kuban taking all SPL teams to the cleaners apart from maybe Celtic. We have a new team that have not played a competitive game before last night. I expected what happened, I only hoped it would not. My concern for the new season is our lack of pace and whether Sutton and our strikers will get many goals. Pretty much what I was thinking last night - we did reasonably well in how we played, but they always looked like they had an bit of class that we didn't, especially going forward. Both goals were avoidable though, and as clever as the no. 99 was in setting it up, it just seemed too easy. Stevie Hammell's attempted pass for the 2nd was criminal, but I'd bet no one knows that more than Hammell himself. With a bit of luck, Sutton's header would have given us a glimmer of hope, but wasn't our night (again !), so we need to move on. As for the season ahead, no rash statements about where we'll finish in the league, but I'm fairly positive about what lies ahead - well pleased with Lawson & Vigurs, and on 1st viewing McManus looks the part and his experience will be invaluable. I like big Sutton, but as said previously, playing up on his own is just pointless. Faddy's Faddy, and you take what you get - the guy has the potential when he gets the ball to make things happen, and whilst it don't always work, the air of expectancy when he gets the ball is why I love watching him play. FWIW, I reckon Vigurs is in the same mould, that he'll have the ability to make things happen. An additional player or two would be ideal, but in reasonably good shape going forward. MON RA DOSSERS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welldaft Mk1 Posted August 2, 2013 Report Share Posted August 2, 2013 I reckon with their recent exploits in Europe Rosenborg are probably on a par technically with FC Kuban. If they met, there would be very little between the sides. Kuban were an okay team, however they would be no match for the likes of Swansea who beat Malmo in a canter last night. I could be wrong, but I reckon FC Kuban will not be going too far in this competition. I have not researched this fact, but have heard it often enough to believe it is true. Kuban are a side that have not lost a league game since last NOVEMBER. They are not playing in the 3rd Division, but the top flight in Russia! They have supposedly not lost a home game in over a year. They just sold a player for £8m. Their squad is worth £50m... All these - if only we had gone for it...why did we not attack more..why can we not do a St Johnstone....I mean FFS We played our 1st competitive game with largely a brand new team. We got a little lucky and a little unlucky instages last night, but I was not at all surprised by how things played out. We need to get back to finishing 3rd or 4th so we start out as a seeded team and get a few rounds in. It was a bad draw against an unheard of team, but certainly imho one of the strongest seeds we could have got.... Back to League business thank christ.. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Posted August 2, 2013 Report Share Posted August 2, 2013 I have not researched this fact, but have heard it often enough to believe it is true. Kuban are a side that have not lost a league game since last NOVEMBER. They are not playing in the 3rd Division, but the top flight in Russia! They have supposedly not lost a home game in over a year. They just sold a player for £8m. Their squad is worth £50m... All these - if only we had gone for it...why did we not attack more..why can we not do a St Johnstone....I mean FFS We played our 1st competitive game with largely a brand new team. We got a little lucky and a little unlucky instages last night, but I was not at all surprised by how things played out. We need to get back to finishing 3rd or 4th so we start out as a seeded team and get a few rounds in. It was a bad draw against an unheard of team, but certainly imho one of the strongest seeds we could have got.... Back to League business thank christ.. They were the lowest seed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underboyleheating Posted August 2, 2013 Report Share Posted August 2, 2013 Rosenborg are pish. I wouldn’t say they were pish. This is a side that in the past have drawn with the likes of Chelsea and beaten Valencia home and away. And in 2010/11 they had narrow defeats to Bayer Leverkusen and Atletico Madrid in the CL. The bottom line is that Motherwell are not ready to play against a side of the quality of FC Kuban, a side that will crumble when they meet any team of real quality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al B Posted August 2, 2013 Report Share Posted August 2, 2013 The main thing I took from last night is that, as disappointed as I am, there's not much in the SPL (or whatever the fuck its called), that will cause us too much trouble. Not that we'll steamroller games, but we're a very capable side with a lot more quality than I think we give ourselves credit for. The main difference for me is that we can compete reasonably well when it comes down to football, but the further through a competition you get, you reach a stage where the sides you meet are made up of real genuine athletes, against a team that look like guys you could have went to school with that happened to be decent at football. Thats not the clubs fault...it's an infrastructure and development thing in this country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underboyleheating Posted August 2, 2013 Report Share Posted August 2, 2013 The main thing I took from last night is that, as disappointed as I am, there's not much in the SPL (or whatever the fuck its called), that will cause us too much trouble. Agreed, however Europe always seems like a step too far for us. Maybe one day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 2, 2013 Report Share Posted August 2, 2013 I wouldn’t say they were pish. This is a side that in the past have drawn with the likes of Chelsea and beaten Valencia home and away. And in 2010/11 they had narrow defeats to Bayer Leverkusen and Atletico Madrid in the CL. The bottom line is that Motherwell are not ready to play against a side of the quality of FC Kuban, a side that will crumble when they meet any team of real quality. Having watched both Saints games and I can confirm that Rosenborg were pish in both games. What they did in previous years gives an idea of what they are potentially capable of, as opposed to their actual ability just now. While in no way wanting to suggest that the Saints result was anything other than brilliant, I think we'd also have quite comfortably made it through against Rosenborg. They offered very little going forward and their back four was an absolute bombscare. Watching the game, there was no way you'd assume that Rosenborg were the team half way through their season, and Saints playing their first of the season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wellfan1984 Posted August 2, 2013 Report Share Posted August 2, 2013 With Al B on this by the way. On that (disappointing) showing we're going to have another excellent SPFL season. Good season ahead lads. Europe, well we can just call them glamour friendlies next season Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well Well Posted August 2, 2013 Report Share Posted August 2, 2013 Even if we get a European place next season whats the point..?? If we get another shitty draw like last few season we are losing a hell of a lot of money. Our tactics in Europe are dire. Why we can't play our normal game is beyond me. I couldn't give a damn how good the opposition is or what advantage they have. We are at home and we should go for it. I couldn't care about previous loses to Pana or Levante . We put an attacking team out and go for it. If we continue to play this way the chances of any of those floating fans returning are zilch. I couldn't give a damn if we lost by 7 but we scored 4-5 in reply. We won't know if we don't try and we didn't try last night. We set up for a draw and it didn't work. Throwing Arnier on in the last 10 minutes was hardly going to turn the game around. I just wish we would stop fucking about trying different tactics in Europe and just play our usual style. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlukemurray Posted August 2, 2013 Report Share Posted August 2, 2013 Thought we looked extremely rusty last night - did we play enough pre-season friendlies in advance? I agree with a lot of the comments - Sutton needs support and will only come alive in the box, so we need to provide service. The lack of movement was shocking at times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted August 2, 2013 Report Share Posted August 2, 2013 Even if we get a European place next season whats the point..?? If we get another shitty draw like last few season we are losing a hell of a lot of money. Our tactics in Europe are dire. Why we can't play our normal game is beyond me. I couldn't give a damn how good the opposition is or what advantage they have. We are at home and we should go for it. I couldn't care about previous loses to Pana or Levante . We put an attacking team out and go for it. If we continue to play this way the chances of any of those floating fans returning are zilch. I couldn't give a damn if we lost by 7 but we scored 4-5 in reply. We won't know if we don't try and we didn't try last night. We set up for a draw and it didn't work. Throwing Arnier on in the last 10 minutes was hardly going to turn the game around. I just wish we would stop fucking about trying different tactics in Europe and just play our usual style. I was thinking along similar lines last night. As Al B points out, our football tends not to produce athletes - that is one part of the problem. The second part in my view is that Scottish (and British) players tend not to be very bright; at least in a footballing sense. If you have ever listened to Gordon Strachan as a pundit, the guy knows the game and can break things down to a very detailed level. After his first couple of Scotland games, he came out and said that maybe he had been over-complicating things and needed to simplify tactics for the next game. That was a polite way of saying the players weren't bright enough to understand (or certainly execute) his game plan. I think we have the same problem in Europe. From McGhee's debacle in Nancy (where we didn't have a single shot at goal in 90 minutes) to last night's game where, after banging on about learning our lesson to not lose a soft goal on the counter - we do just that again, the players don't seem to have the footballing nous to maintain new tactics for 90 minutes. We also don't seem to be able to focus for a full game. European games can be intense with one mistake deciding a tie. It's not like the SPL where, if you screw up, you will likely get 3 or 4 more changes to make amends. Again, that is as much a failure of our infrastructure as anything. But bearing all that in mind, it does seem to make sense for us to play our natural game - or close to. If the team isn't able to switch it up for a one-off, then just playing the way we play as best we can might be the answer. That's what got us there in the first place. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well Well Posted August 2, 2013 Report Share Posted August 2, 2013 I was thinking along similar lines last night. As Al B points out, our football tends not to produce athletes - that is one part of the problem. The second part in my view is that Scottish (and British) players tend not to be very bright; at least in a footballing sense. If you have ever listened to Gordon Strachan as a pundit, the guy knows the game and can break things down to a very detailed level. After his first couple of Scotland games, he came out and said that maybe he had been over-complicating things and needed to simplify tactics for the next game. That was a polite way of saying the players weren't bright enough to understand (or certainly execute) his game plan. I think we have the same problem in Europe. From McGhee's debacle in Nancy (where we didn't have a single shot at goal in 90 minutes) to last night's game where, after banging on about learning our lesson to not lose a soft goal on the counter - we do just that again, the players don't seem to have the footballing nous to maintain new tactics for 90 minutes. We also don't seem to be able to focus for a full game. European games can be intense with one mistake deciding a tie. It's not like the SPL where, if you screw up, you will likely get 3 or 4 more changes to make amends. Again, that is as much a failure of our infrastructure as anything. But bearing all that in mind, it does seem to make sense for us to play our natural game - or close to. If the team isn't able to switch it up for a one-off, then just playing the way we play as best we can might be the answer. That's what got us there in the first place. Weeyin you put that much better than I could and hits the nail on the head for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaka Posted August 2, 2013 Report Share Posted August 2, 2013 I have not researched this fact, but have heard it often enough to believe it is true. Kuban are a side that have not lost a league game since last NOVEMBER. They are not playing in the 3rd Division, but the top flight in Russia! They have supposedly not lost a home game in over a year. They just sold a player for £8m. Their squad is worth £50m... It was a bad draw against an unheard of team, but certainly imho one of the strongest seeds we could have got.... That shows exactly how tough a draw we had and no-one has any right to expect anything other than a loss for us. However, we've heard from McCall about how we've researched this team extensively and learned from our mistakes so why was last night an exact copy of Panathinaikos,Levante,Odense,Nancy. We've learned nothing at all,that's the frustrating thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 2, 2013 Report Share Posted August 2, 2013 Haud on, so we're not athletes now? I thought the problem a couple of years back was that we only produced athletes...? (Actually agree, just being facetious) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juan Kerse Posted August 2, 2013 Report Share Posted August 2, 2013 Boys behind me were booing McCall after 60 minutes. Like actual Fred McCaully Style 'Fucking Boo!!!' Cos he wouldnt make subs. What was he to do, Bring on the unknown, unfit and untested Striker? When the did bring Anier on it was a 'Disgrace' that he only got 19 minutes. Seriously.Get a grip. This mob have more money than Celtic. 0-2 isnt actually too bad!! Certainly not a 'Disgrace' I will add tho that we have been shafted mire than any other club for grtting 2nd place. Less prize money then actually making a loss on a dire Euro draw. Stick your second place this season and give us 6 th and a League Cup win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welldaft Mk1 Posted August 2, 2013 Report Share Posted August 2, 2013 They were the lowest seed. I said imho... They were only the lowest seeds based on the fact they had not played in Europe before. Does not change my view that they were an extremely tough draw and tougher than quite a few seeded teams above them.. That is why again - it was a sh1tey draw from the moment it was made I mean Seville, Stuttgart and even Swansea would have beaten us handsomely, but at least they would have brought more than 40 fans and we could and would have got a possible TV deal with all those teams and made some money.... That is me done on this subject - bring on the Hobos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malky79 Posted August 2, 2013 Report Share Posted August 2, 2013 Hard to guage how good Kuban were, might be they are a very good team that didn't need to get out of first gear. However it was disappointing to see us not do ourselves justice again. There are some mitigating circumstances regards the changes in personnel from last season and the fact that they are already into their league season, albeit only a few games, but they certainly didn't look anything special. Rarely felt like we were under the cosh, a bit more focus and we really should have came away with a 0-0 and maybe even sneaked it at the death if Sutton's header sneaks inside rather than rattles the post. I think we'll settle into a half decent team but that's the european run grinding to a shuddering halt barring something close to a footballing miracle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burn_Broomfield Posted August 2, 2013 Report Share Posted August 2, 2013 Having went to watch Rosenborg at Lerkendal when they were going for last seasons title and watching them on Norwegian tv, I can confirm they are shite and would have been very confident of pumping them. Kuban are a good team and would belt any Scottish team they play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bop Posted August 2, 2013 Report Share Posted August 2, 2013 Agreed. Anyone saying Rosenborg are a good side hasn't watched them recently. Motherwell would win the Norwegian league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dezz Posted August 2, 2013 Report Share Posted August 2, 2013 Whilst last nights result was disappointing, when looked at in terms of the SPFL or whatever it's called now, it leaves me in doubt we'll be absolutely fine for a top 6 finish this season. The only frustration for me last night was that we had plenty of possession but never looked like doing much with it, credit to the Russians though they were tight as a ducks arse when we had the ball. Just get the feeling if we had Humphrey and Ojamaa in the squad last night it could have been a different story, going forward at least. Players who create a bit of space and bring lots of energy.. I felt our play was just a little pedestrian last night. Not too despondent because I didn't expect much and still looking forward to the season to come. I feel a cup run coming on, although that could be the delayed flight airport beers talking! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tweed Posted August 2, 2013 Report Share Posted August 2, 2013 Comparing Kuban with Rosenborg is a pointless, futile exercise. St Johnstone got a good draw and have made the most of it so fair play to them. We got a tough draw and had to do a good professional job to have a chance. Kuban were a clever team, they very quickly worked out that our best attacking options were all going to come from Francis-Angol or McFadden and doubled up on them. I like Vigurs and Lawson lots however, I don't think they are the central midfielders who are going to pay the cutting defence splitting pass that Law could whilst there last season and what has effectively happened is we have become a wee bit more one dimensional. When they had the ball they had some good players, especially the guy wearing 99. He rarely wasted a ball and his movement off the ball created more and more space. In saying that on the mostpart we did a good job of matching up to them. Unfortunately we occasionally gifted the ball away cheaply and they were just a tad too good for that and when we did we were punished. The first goal was poor but the second one was an absolute joke. Hammell wanted to play the ball right but couldn't because we had FOUR players standing offside - mistake one. He then tried a Hollywood ball to the left and didn't make it - mistake two. They then wandered past someone as if they weren't there, we should have fouled them - mistake three and then Hammell stood off the onrushing player - mistake four. Not only were these all mistakes but they are mistakes a pub team wouldn't make. That sort of goal is what makes it so incredibly disappointing and frustrating. Got to say I always thought we would lose as this team are playing and doing well in a much stronger league than ours but having seen them we lost to a team that played on a level that was well behind Celtic of last season at their best. My suspicion is they under performed big style last night but if you had told me they would play as they did, I'd have been confident of a getting at least a 0-0. Dead easy to say we should have had more of a go. I don't necessarily agree with that. THey didn't give us much room to play and our only hope of having a chance is if we went there either ahead or with them on 0. I think trying to keep it tight for an hour then having a go was the right idea but we let ourselves down by conceding the cheap one after 51 minutes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Grew Posted August 2, 2013 Report Share Posted August 2, 2013 There is only one way to get better at football and that is to play against teams that are better than or at a higher level and if possible on a fairly regular basis. However due to lack of finances SPL clubs (Celtic excepted) are not able to do so hence you get matches against the likes of Doncaster and Morecambe, no disrespect to either. To play against better teams in friendlies does cost money e.g. I remember we played and beat Ajax in a friendly in the '70s however despite a crowd of about 7,000 the club made an overall loss of £10K due to having to pay Jax a guarantee to get them to come. Heaven knows what that equates to in today's money. SPL players will only improve if they are exposed to playing against better players than themselves - witness how Aberdeen and Dundee Utd gradually improved in the 80's by getting more and more experience of playing against better players in European competitions. The only small consolation is that we won't be playing against players of the likes go Newcastle and Krasnodar other than Celtic in the SPL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East Stand Well Boy Posted August 2, 2013 Report Share Posted August 2, 2013 Hearing stories of Motherwell fans fighting amongst themselves in the East Stand at half time, although I didn't see anything myself. Anyone shed some light? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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