Artificial Pitch At Firpark?

[weeyin]

Bit unfair to neg makaveli for raising a debate topic regardless of your views of his track record on here and in the general public sphere. It was valid to ask the question.

 

For me, a country lying approx 54-57 deg of latitude it seems mental with predicted colder winters on the way not to move to summer football. Its a product readily sellable to Sky to fill up airtime down south as they have 4 channels that broadcast some amount of crap in the summer, why not our crap?

 

That would negate the need for and use of artifical turf. However if we stick with the status quo, lot to be said for hosting all our senior and U20 games at Fir Park, being able to train in the stadium and the potential of a slight advantage over visiting teams. Some of the latest pitches sanctioned by UEFA are fantastic and improvements are increasing all the time.

 

I'm always willing to take on the Summer Football debate, because apart from not agreeing with it, I just don't see how it would work. The only month we don't play football in Scotland is June. Friendlies start in July and then it's full steam ahead until the following May.

 

Every 2nd year, there is a World Cup and Euro Championship that takes place in the summer. With the ever larger expansion of those competitions, that means a 4 week minimum (plus mandatory FIFA/UEFA release time for players) shut down.

 

Then you throw in the weather. If it's so crap to play in our winter months, when are the players going to have their pre-season? More importantly, where are they going to have their pre-season?

 

For me, I'd much rather stick with a January shutdown, get a 16 or 18 team top flight (play each other twice) and get proper terracing back than be able to play 4 games in June every 2nd year.

 

Oh, and I don't buy the "well they do it in Ireland" argument. The reason they tried it in Ireland is because it's about the 3rd or 4th most popular sport and they had trouble competing. Also, when they made the switch to summer football, the attendances did not increase.

 

And don't get me started on what happens to clubs who manage to make it to the later stages of the European competitions

 

Rant ends here. We now return to your regular programme.

[mjw]

Dunno about an artificial pitch but every time we get to a cup final we get thousands of artificial fans.

 

Do they use artificial money to buy artificial tickets?

[Frazzie]

Bit unfair to neg makaveli for raising a debate topic regardless of your views of his track record on here and in the general public sphere. It was valid to ask the question.

 

 

 

I wasn't really negging him, whatever that means. I think the question of artificial pitches is a valid one. I'm not sure if I agree with it at Fir Park, but reckon it's a near certainty that one will be laid at our new stadium when we move.

 

I was just questioning the comparison with Norway as it seems to me their national side and club sides are on the decline if anything. Obviously there's money in the game there but surely that's largely due to the wealth in the country, and I would hazard a guess that attendances are up because the football is community-based and competitive. I don't see any of the positive aspects of Norweigan football being down to playing on artificial surfaces. It also seems an odd comparison after watching the midden they played Scotland on last night!

[Goggles & Flippers]

I'm always willing to take on the Summer Football debate, because apart from not agreeing with it, I just don't see how it would work. The only month we don't play football in Scotland is June. Friendlies start in July and then it's full steam ahead until the following May.

 

Every 2nd year, there is a World Cup and Euro Championship that takes place in the summer. With the ever larger expansion of those competitions, that means a 4 week minimum (plus mandatory FIFA/UEFA release time for players) shut down.

 

Then you throw in the weather. If it's so crap to play in our winter months, when are the players going to have their pre-season? More importantly, where are they going to have their pre-season?

 

For me, I'd much rather stick with a January shutdown, get a 16 or 18 team top flight (play each other twice) and get proper terracing back than be able to play 4 games in June every 2nd year.

 

Oh, and I don't buy the "well they do it in Ireland" argument. The reason they tried it in Ireland is because it's about the 3rd or 4th most popular sport and they had trouble competing. Also, when they made the switch to summer football, the attendances did not increase.

And don't get me started on what happens to clubs who manage to make it to the later stages of the European competitions

 

Rant ends here. We now return to your regular programme.

 

Well since you threw down the gauntlet .... At present we have a 10-12 week gap from the last competitive match of one season to the next. Why not have the culmination of one season on Boxing Day or Jan 1st (as they help get punters through the gates) and the new season starts in mid/end of March?

 

In the summers where there are championships the league would finish up at roughly the same time as all other European leagues to let players join their international squads. Lower divisions can continue to play attracting SPFL fans to maybe filter some cash down and increasing their attendances. By the time the quarters come round in the big tournaments, the gap to the semi's and final is approx. 10-12 days to allow the teams to rest in between, our senior program could potentially start up again then as I also doubt Scotland could expect to progress from the group stages if we do qualify as our track record says that won't happen any time soon. However in World Cup and Euro years we start the league a month earlier and schedule a few more midweek evening games.

 

(EDIT: I don't know if UEFA or FIFA place bans on domestic football during finals)

 

TV revenues and interest from our neighbour would no doubt help put a little funds into our beleaguered game. Brazilian and co would see 3pm kickoffs more often with odd times to fit round the English teams only at the start and end of a season.

 

Going to the match in a t-shirt on a Wednesday night and walking home in the light has to appeal and would maybe let some cautious parents consent to their kids going. Not to mention keeping the pitch ticking over in the summer with the quicker regeneration and no doubt more conducive surface to good football than a claggy or sandridden mess in early February. I accept that in summer there can be freak weather phenomenon but lets be honest the chances are much more limited than in winter.

 

Overhead costs for club would go down, limiting the use of the undersoil heating, floodlighting, etc. however I accept we'd need to get a few chest freezers to stock raspberry mivvies and Hagen Daz (for the Main Stand). Not to mention the chances of abandoned games for whatever reason goes way down.

 

Bear in mind a lot of places the national team and our European qualifying club teams would go to play in warmer climates our players advantage of playing in a howling Scottish winter and taming it is negated. Surely playing in summer here will better acclimatise us for competition and also, it would be nice to have our first Europa qualifier July in the equivalent of our current Jan/Feb. When the team has gelled, coming off a string of competitive matches and not Morton or East Fife in a friendly.

 

If you were to use Gaelic football in Ireland and switch it to Summer and see how the crowds did then that would be a much better comparison as football here is the most popular sport.

[Goggles & Flippers]

I wasn't really negging him, whatever that means.

 

neg (verb) p. the act of giving someone negative reputation on an internet forum. 1. I see Steelboy has posted again, neg at the ready. 2. Dewell's neg's must be going up quicker than a Blue Peter appeal totaliser.

[numpty]

If you were to use Gaelic football in Ireland and switch it to Summer and see how the crowds did then that would be a much better comparison as football here is the most popular sport.

The biggest competition in Gaelic football already happens over the summer, culminating in the All-Ireland final in September. But what with club competitions and other tournaments, they really play almost all year round.

[Goggles & Flippers]

Just out of interest, behind football and rugby what would be our 3rd and 4th most popular spectator sports in Scotland, shinty and ice hockey?

[well_nuts]

Have they changed the rules where you can use artificial pitches in the spl? Dunfermline when they came back up a few years ago had to get rid of theres as it was against the rules.

[joewarkfanclub]

I quite like the idea of an artificial pitch but as mentioned earlier I think it should be tied in with a move to a new stadium at Ravenscraig.

 

I think for a community based club like ourselves it would provide us with all the facilities we need and also open the club up to the community in the evenings. Make the club a real focal point of the community.

 

I also think in recent seasons we have struggled through the winter months because we havent been able to play decent football on our pitch. Thinking particularly when McGhee was in charge. With the new artificial pitches that wouldnt be a problem.

 

Incidentally, I really liked the look of Molde's stadium last night. 11,000 capacity. Looked a cracking venue. Accordinging to the commentary last night they are switching to astro too for next season.

[Frazzie]

neg (verb) p. the act of giving someone negative reputation on an internet forum. 1. I see Steelboy has posted again, neg at the ready. 2. Dewell's neg's must be going up quicker than a Blue Peter appeal totaliser.

 

Thanks for that. There was a time when I was "down with the kids", but sadly those days are long gone.

[mjw]

Have they changed the rules where you can use artificial pitches in the spl? Dunfermline when they came back up a few years ago had to get rid of theres as it was against the rules.

 

They changed the SPL so that may have changed as well.

[Dr.Pepper]

Just had a google of the SPFL rules there. As long as the artificial pitch is of a decent level it's allowed in all 4 divisions.

 

http://spfl.co.uk/docs/067_324__therulesofthespfl_1375800603.pdf

 

Page 60 if anyone's interested

[GazzyB]

Not gonna quote the whole thing G&F but that's a great argument for summer football.

 

I'm also in favour of astro pitches, but what with the slope at FP it'd be far too expensive unfortunately.

[ClaretAndBamber]

Just out of interest, behind football and rugby what would be our 3rd and 4th most popular spectator sports in Scotland, shinty and ice hockey?

 

 

Depends how you measure these things I suppose - number of paying punters per annum? The bigger golf events will draw huge crowds but don't happen very often (I don't imagine the tartan tour gets huge attendances) - on an annual basis though I'd imagine it would be 3rd.

[numpty]

Depends how you measure these things I suppose - number of paying punters per annum? The bigger golf events will draw huge crowds but don't happen very often (I don't imagine the tartan tour gets huge attendances) - on an annual basis though I'd imagine it would be 3rd.

Although I don't consider it a sport myself, I'd think horse racing would be pretty high up the list--it was the 2nd biggest spectator sport in the UK a couple of years back.

[Al B]

I play on the new, all-singing all-dancing, latest technology surface at The Falkirk Stadium every week, and it's awful...up there with the worst surfaces i've ever played on...and im a big fan of artificial turf normally.

 

The only way I can describe it if you've never played on it is that it feels and sounds like you're playing on a 3 inch blanket of snow. If it's raining it's slidy enough to have to adjust your movement so you don't end up on your backside every time you stop or turn (even with mouldies on), and if it's dry the ball holds up something ridiculous if you play it along the deck.

 

You do get more used to it after a while if you play on it a lot, but it's horrible.

[Bop]

 

Incidentally, I really liked the look of Molde's stadium last night. 11,000 capacity. Looked a cracking venue. Accordinging to the commentary last night they are switching to astro too for next season.

 

 

Visited it to watch Molde V AAFK and its a cracking stadium which feels alot bigger than the 11k capacity but sadly I think it cost around £30M to build which completely prices us out of anything remotely similar.

[joewarkfanclub]

Visited it to watch Molde V AAFK and its a cracking stadium which feels alot bigger than the 11k capacity but sadly I think it cost around £30M to build which completely prices us out of anything remotely similar.

 

That would be a real shame. Was hoping that the housing market would pick up eventually and we could put together some community/business partnership to pull it off. Dont know the logistics of these things but it would be nice if we could show some ambition. Wont be anytime soon mind you.

 

I should clarify, that I would always prefer us to play on grass and at Fir Park. Its just with our climate and an ageing stadium we will have to start planning for our future soon. A modern stadium with office/retail space generating income as many hours a day as possible would seem like the way to go.The pitch would have to be considered as part of the plan.

[Goggles & Flippers]

North Lanarkshire is crying out for a few things:

 

Large shopping development - At present the sizeable population of NL tends to travel to Glasgow (Centre, Fort, Silverburn, Braehead), Hamilton or EK. Cumbernauld is the only place in the county with a diverse number of branded shops, every other town centre is made up of pound shops, tanning salons and takeaways. The amount of revenue that the council misses out due to this and goes into the coffers of City of Glasgow or South Lanarkshire should be considered at stategic level by the council.

 

Restaurants - At present, I can name 5 places in North Lanarkshire I'd happily go for a bite to eat and return to. A couple are chains which doesn't really support small businesses.

 

Venue Space - For meetings and events, exhibitions, large weddings etc. Again, our county isn't really overflowing with them but need a significant investment in facilities such as kitchens that aren't used daily.

 

Based on the fact a football stadium in cross section is a right angled triangle there is a lot of dead space on the ground floor that could no doubt accommodate a number of these things above and make the building itself viable outside matchdays.

 

Not to mention a quality gym and pool that allows people to swim - unlike the Aquatec. (not running down the one in the new regional sports centre in Ravenscraig, just NL could do with an Esporta type, high end gym).

 

I know the council got its fingers burned with Clyde, but I think many would agree there's been a host of mistakes made by both the club and the council with respect to Broadwood.

 

Personally I'd like to see a stadium built with a large public square similar to Nancy in front of a signature main stand building. This would be used as a focus to the area and establish a centre to the new town with other buildings off the square benefiting from it. If any of you have been to Manchester, what they do there in advance of games is excellent.

 

Viable businesses and government too could use the dormant space (thinking of the electoral register using NDP in Hamilton). Get some restaurants involved have it in their lease to provide matchday food, using their kitchens to do so and no doubt making a bit of cash to cover things, no doubt we'd have the best catering at any Scottish ground.

 

All in I reckon the club could look at a 1,000 minimum increase on gates in the first season and a large marketing tool would have to be 6k-12k people being delivered to your doorstep 20 odd times a year.

[Frazzie]

You are forgetting to factor in that the move will be a joint venture between Motherwell FC and North Lanarkshire council who are hardly known for their forward thinking or initiative. It will be a soulless dump no doubt.

[Goggles & Flippers]

Ha, good point well put Frazzie!

 

I sense an all expenses paid trip by 10 coucillors to Japan, Qatar, Brazil and Monaco to investigate best practices.

 

In the meantime I'd like to think those currently involved with decision making at FP know that souless places like NDP and St. Mirren's effort are and wouldn't condone us getting something similar.

[joewarkfanclub]

North Lanarkshire is crying out for a few things:

 

Large shopping development - At present the sizeable population of NL tends to travel to Glasgow (Centre, Fort, Silverburn, Braehead), Hamilton or EK. Cumbernauld is the only place in the county with a diverse number of branded shops, every other town centre is made up of pound shops, tanning salons and takeaways. The amount of revenue that the council misses out due to this and goes into the coffers of City of Glasgow or South Lanarkshire should be considered at stategic level by the council.

 

Restaurants - At present, I can name 5 places in North Lanarkshire I'd happily go for a bite to eat and return to. A couple are chains which doesn't really support small businesses.

 

Venue Space - For meetings and events, exhibitions, large weddings etc. Again, our county isn't really overflowing with them but need a significant investment in facilities such as kitchens that aren't used daily.

 

Based on the fact a football stadium in cross section is a right angled triangle there is a lot of dead space on the ground floor that could no doubt accommodate a number of these things above and make the building itself viable outside matchdays.

 

Not to mention a quality gym and pool that allows people to swim - unlike the Aquatec. (not running down the one in the new regional sports centre in Ravenscraig, just NL could do with an Esporta type, high end gym).

 

I know the council got its fingers burned with Clyde, but I think many would agree there's been a host of mistakes made by both the club and the council with respect to Broadwood.

 

Personally I'd like to see a stadium built with a large public square similar to Nancy in front of a signature main stand building. This would be used as a focus to the area and establish a centre to the new town with other buildings off the square benefiting from it. If any of you have been to Manchester, what they do there in advance of games is excellent.

 

Viable businesses and government too could use the dormant space (thinking of the electoral register using NDP in Hamilton). Get some restaurants involved have it in their lease to provide matchday food, using their kitchens to do so and no doubt making a bit of cash to cover things, no doubt we'd have the best catering at any Scottish ground.

 

All in I reckon the club could look at a 1,000 minimum increase on gates in the first season and a large marketing tool would have to be 6k-12k people being delivered to your doorstep 20 odd times a year.

 

Great Post.

 

Just the kinda thing I was talking about but with bells on!

[StipeIsGod]

I'd add that for decent venue, with the transport links Motherwell has, it'd do nicely for small stadium concerts. Or, it would have, pre-Hydro.