Motherwell V Celtic 6/12/13

[Tid]

Exactly. Not to mention Nielsen having to block from Izaguirre and Commons and Brown at point blank range and them missing a sitter from a header in the first half before they scored.

 

Either McCall is a fucking moron or he thinks the entire support are fucking morons but if he seriously believes that quote then we've got problems.

 

WTF do you want him to say? At the end of the day he's contracted to give interviews at the end of every game win, lose or draw & whether we've played well or not. He's onto a complete hiding either way. Apart from the last week or so & a few isolated games here & there he's been a f*ckin' miracle worker since he's been at FP. I said it early in his tenure that he'd get short shrift from our fans because he's ex-Rangers & now folk can't wait to put the boot in. Fair enough criticism is due for the cup games this season & obviously we've done hee-haw in Europe but realistically would any other manager have even got us into the positions we've been in in the league in recent seasons.

 

Our budget is miniscule compared with not only Celtic but also with a well over half the league I'd bet. Our core support at FP doesn't generate anything like enough dough to compete with most of the clubs in the SPFL & yet for the last few years we've managed just that. Off course it's soul-destroying been torn apart like we were tonight & much more so last week but at the end of the day Dynamo couldn't come in & do a better f*ckin' job that McCall has over the last few seasons.

 

Christ it's been a right shitter of a few weeks watching us but just who do you think would do a better fucking job? Hate to admit it but there's two folk that generally spout a lot of pish in the papers that have spoken some sense this week, one being Goram & the other being popcorn teeth Lennon when he says he can't believe the abuse McCall is getting after what he's achieved with such a small budget.

 

Name me one manager out there who'd realistically come to FP that would be do a better job with the resources we've got.

 

short selective memories at times...........

 

 

 

[MJC_MKI]

I'd like him to accept for once that he's got it wrong with the team selection and preparation and to stop trying to fob the support off with nonsense like "we'll be better next time", when we never are, and trying to make out that performances like last night were somehow excusable because "Celtic were brilliant" and "they didn't create any outstanding chances", the latter of which is complete bullshit because they could easily have scored 10.

[Tid]

I'd like him to accept for once that he's got it wrong with the team selection and preparation and to stop trying to fob the support off with nonsense like "we'll be better next time", when we never are, and trying to make out that performances like last night were somehow excusable because "Celtic were brilliant" and "they didn't create any outstanding chances", the latter of which is complete bullshit because they could easily have scored 10.

 

and what will that prove? Will you give him an easy ride cos he's admitted he's culpable for the defeat/performance? I doubt it. All we'll hear is "ah telt ye he wisnae up to the job". No win situation.

 

Who would you have as a replacement as a matter of interest?

 

I get the feeling the same folk that hounded Tommy McLean out of FP years ago are the same ones that voted him the best Motherwell manager of all time a couple of years back. We're impossible to impress as fans at times. Top 6? no' good enough we should be in Europe, Top 3 & into Europe, no' good enough we cannae compete in Europe, 2nd in the league? no' good enough blah-blah. Most other teams in the league would be delighted to be in the position we've been in for the last few years. If any other manager could take us up a level within our wage bracket & with our budget, well fair enough let's get them in. Otherwise have a think about it seriously. Where do you think we should be? There's clubs our size or thereabouts support wise & history wise who you could argue could & should be above us who are not even in the SPFL. Think Dunfermline, Dundee, Falkirk & that's just the lower league teams. We've consistently out-performed the likes of Hearts, Hibs, Utd & Aberdeen over the last few years which we've no right to expect. Honestly wouldn't matter who was in charge at FP, some folk would rather dish out abuse rather than praise......

 

 

 

[MJC_MKI]

and what will that prove? Will you give him an easy ride cos he's admitted he's culpable for the defeat/performance? I doubt it. All we'll hear is "ah telt ye he wisnae up to the job". No win situation.

 

Who would you have as a replacement as a matter of interest?

 

I get the feeling the same folk that hounded Tommy McLean out of FP years ago are the same ones that voted him the best Motherwell manager of all time a couple of years back. We're impossible to impress as fans at times. Top 6? no' good enough we should be in Europe, Top 3 & into Europe, no' good enough we cannae compete in Europe, 2nd in the league? no' good enough blah-blah. Most other teams in the league would be delighted to be in the position we've been in for the last few years. If any other manager could take us up a level within our wage bracket & with our budget, well fair enough let's get them in. Otherwise have a think about it seriously. Where do you think we should be? There's clubs our size or thereabouts support wise & history wise who you could argue could & should be above us who are not even in the SPFL. Think Dunfermline, Dundee, Falkirk & that's just the lower league teams. We've consistently out-performed the likes of Hearts, Hibs, Utd & Aberdeen over the last few years which we've no right to expect. Honestly wouldn't matter who was in charge at FP, some folk would rather dish out abuse rather than praise......

 

 

 

 

 

What would it prove? Well I'd respect him more for a start and I expect I'm not alone in that. I'm sick fed up hearing him trot out the same tired excuses and vows on the back of such poor displays as Friday night, ie. 'the opposition were tremendous but we'll learn our lessons'. You know, just something to show that our manager is at least aware of how bad the performances are in these games and really wants to do something to change them. Hearing him constantly spout the same drivel about how brilliant they were and how we'll learn our lessons is extremely tiresome, especially since we never do appear to learn any lessons from these games.

 

Who would I have as a replacement?

 

Well I said on here the other day that Paul Hartley would be a good choice as a replacement because he appears to be a forward thinking, up and coming young coach with his own ideas and that is something that I think would benefit us just now, to have a fresh approach brought to the table. Changing the manager doesn't always work for the better but its something that needs to be done at some point regardless of how well things are going and in our case right now I think it would benefit us to get a new and fresh approach because it is clear that McCall cannot and will not take us any further. His complete botch up of the summer rebuilding job coupled with his tactical ineptness and inability to motivate the team when it really matters all points to his time being up for me.

[SteelmaninOZ]

[Yabba's Turd]

I think it would benefit us to get a new and fresh approach because it is clear that McCall cannot and will not take us any further.

So we sack him tomorrow and his replacement has to win the league? You are a fucking mentalist.

[Tid]

What would it prove? Well I'd respect him more for a start and I expect I'm not alone in that. I'm sick fed up hearing him trot out the same tired excuses and vows on the back of such poor displays as Friday night, ie. 'the opposition were tremendous but we'll learn our lessons'. You know, just something to show that our manager is at least aware of how bad the performances are in these games and really wants to do something to change them. Hearing him constantly spout the same drivel about how brilliant they were and how we'll learn our lessons is extremely tiresome, especially since we never do appear to learn any lessons from these games.

 

Who would I have as a replacement?

 

Well I said on here the other day that Paul Hartley would be a good choice as a replacement because he appears to be a forward thinking, up and coming young coach with his own ideas and that is something that I think would benefit us just now, to have a fresh approach brought to the table. Changing the manager doesn't always work for the better but its something that needs to be done at some point regardless of how well things are going and in our case right now I think it would benefit us to get a new and fresh approach because it is clear that McCall cannot and will not take us any further. His complete botch up of the summer rebuilding job coupled with his tactical ineptness and inability to motivate the team when it really matters all points to his time being up for me.

 

that's exactly where he can't win though. At least he's honest in his appraisal of other teams performances. If Celtic lose Lennon instantly turns on the officials or some other lame excuse crops up. He never, ever gives any praise to the other team no matter what's went on in the previous 90 mins & off course that shower of shite that follow Celtic lap it up with the full paranoia, chip on the shoulder us against the world bollocks that they've played on for years. You argue that McCall cannot & will not take us any further. Further than what exactly? We're top 6 every year almost & although we've had a total 'mare in the cups this year we've no divine right to be any more successful than we have been.

 

Every other club in the league could lay claim to be as deserving of either silverware or higher league finishes as we are. I'll say it again with our budget we've out-performed the vast majority of Scottish teams over recent seasons.

 

As for the Paul Hartley shout. Who knows, he might be a sensation but I'll guarantee you one thing. A couple of early cup exits & a few league defeats & it will be "that Celtic b*stard hasnae got a clue" or "that wee Accies c*nt can get tae f*ck"

 

Nothing surer.......

 

.

 

 

 

[MJC_MKI]

1386382026[/url]' post='400765']

So we sack him tomorrow and his replacement has to win the league? You are a fucking mentalist.

 

I'll get back to you when I find where I said that his replacement should win the league. Or even hinted at it for that matter.

[Yabba's Turd]

We finished 2nd, taking the club further would mean winning the league, or do you just mean a wee bit further forward in one off game competitions? You're talking shite for the sake of it

[something else]

I think what MJC is saying is that we have to look at the big picture. Yep we've had 2 good seasons but right now we are struggling and it doesn't look like Mccall knows what he's doing anymore. We have a very poor squad and our only 2 real assets (hutch and McManus) will.be off in January.

 

Maybe time to look at getting someone in who can motivate the team and stop the current downward plunge.

 

I don't mind losing to better teams if the team show fight, hunger and effort. This team is showing none of that.

[Yabba's Turd]

McCall would only leave if he had a job to go to - he hasn't

Motherwell would sack him only if we could afford to - we can't

 

That's it, calling for him to resign won't make it happen, we're in the top half of the league at the moment, we could be in Kilmarnock's position, but we're not.

 

Injuries and loss of form have made a precarious situation worse, I'm not saying I'm happy with our season but it's obvious he doesn't fancy Lawson as a 1st choice and Ainsworth has failed to make an impact, we'll see what he does in January, maybe we'll just have to accept that our purple patch is drawing to a close.

[Tweed]

I understand people are frustrated we have gone backwards this season but over the previous two we have been incredibly lucky with injuries. This year we have had four or five out just about every week. Bad news is that Motherwell can't cope with that and every game will be a struggle as long as that remains the same. Yes, McCall could have played his hand differently, yes, we are as slow as a Jim Paterson trot throughout the whole team and yes it has been dreadful to watch but we all knew when we signed up to be 'Well fans there would be hard times and this season is going to be one of them.

[Branchy Well]

McCall has done a good job!

We have however been hopeless all season and his recent signings have been pathetic leaving him with no one to turn to.

I strongly suspect his time is up as that was yet another recent abject Motherwell performance!!

McCall out!!!

 

[Lobey_Dosser]

Pleased to have watched the game through a drunken haze.

 

McCall may stick around for a while yet but there is no way back for him. We have assembled a rank rotten squad.

[dosser1886]

The McCall must go chat is a mile out and totally disrespectful to a guy that has delivered some amazing results and times for a team like ours. The guy has done an fantastic job and inevitably after losing the guts of our team we are toiling and as fans we are not happy at the inevitable drop in quality of the product that we see on the park.

He isn't blind he can see like everyone else that was is going on on the park just isn't good enough and he is culpable for some signing that haven't and don't look they are going to work out.

 

BUT

 

 

 

After what he is done up till now he at least deserves our respect and faith that he can turn it around.

[Steve Diggle]

We are in limp home mode to the end of the season.

 

The only exits will be the loanees and Hutch (or if anyone makes an offer for Carswell or the like)

 

Nobody's coming in.

 

We won't sack a manager (even if it was a good idea, which it isn't 't) we have to pay compensation to in our current financial state.

 

This is, quite simply put, of those spells where we need to get behind the team.

[Catweazles ring piece]

Unfortunately, SM and KB are like washed up card players sitting with a duff hand.

No amount of bluff or shuffling the pack is going to make any feckin' difference!

 

We've no money and we'll have to do with what we've got (the problem is, the players that have been brought in can't play to the system and SM doesn't seem able to adapt a new one!)

 

There is a huge elephant in the room and not everyone can see it yet!!!!!!!

 

 

[chummy]

First time for years ive left a game early, was in main stand an the atmosphere was the most poison i can remember for a longtime.

What fuckin gets me, a celtic fan, easily 50 yrs old give it the full boys of the oldbrigade shite, 2 ft away from 3 coppers, and what? They warned a youngwell fan to sit down, jesus fuckin christ.

Need to add, cant watch this fuckin pish anymore.

[milo]

That's what the polis do though, always has been. Wouldn't be surprised if it was a deliberate tactic. They simply are not interested in stopping trouble and lifting the perpetrators. Easy option every time; as long as it looks good on paper.

[mfc88]

I'm far from saying McCall out just yet. But he does need to change his approach. Things haven't gone for us this season and rotating the same underperforming players in the same ineffectual system isn't working.

[Steve Diggle]

Unfortunately, SM and KB are like washed up card players sitting with a duff hand.

No amount of bluff or shuffling the pack is going to make any feckin' difference!

 

We've no money and we'll have to do with what we've got (the problem is, the players that have been brought in can't play to the system and SM doesn't seem able to adapt a new one!)

 

There is a huge elephant in the room and not everyone can see it yet!!!!!!!

 

 

Cryptic

 

What's the elephant that folk aren't talking about?

[MJC_MKI]

1386382897[/url]' post='400769']

We finished 2nd, taking the club further would mean winning the league, or do you just mean a wee bit further forward in one off game competitions? You're talking shite for the sake of it

 

No, I mean he can't take us any further in that he's done as much as he can with us and can do no more. What's happened in the past is in the past and we are going backwards at an alarming rate of knots. You're being pedantic and deliberately missing the point for the sake of it.

[something else]

I agree with MJC. Would you wait till the timing belt goes on your car before replacing it. If your roof is leaking do you wait till it collapses in before fixing it?

 

Sometimes.if something isn't happening it needs to be dealt with..I can see why people feel mccall deserves time but unfortunately football is ruthless. There is no loyalty in the game anymore. Players like Hateley, law and higdon proved that. And do we honestly think if rangers came calling Mccall wouldn't ditch us?

 

Financially can we really afford to keep.going out of cups early?

[Malky79]

No, I mean he can't take us any further in that he's done as much as he can with us and can do no more. What's happened in the past is in the past and we are going backwards at an alarming rate of knots. You're being pedantic and deliberately missing the point for the sake of it.

 

We never had a hope in hell of going forward this season and no manager in the game would have been able to do so with our resources.

 

Doesn't mean I'm not disappointed in what I'm seeing or even that McCall doesn't deserve a bit of criticism.

 

But losing Randolph, Law, Ojamma, Humphrey, Higdon is the single biggest upheaval I can recall. It's an even bigger dent to quality of the squad than the season we lost Paul Lambert and Rab McKinnon at the same time.

 

We brought in some decent looking signings, but it's hard to legislate for nearly all of them not gelling or showing themselves at their best. McManus and Sutton have done alright, but who'd have thought McFadden would be so poor, or that Vigurs would struggle as much as he has. These guys should be offering us the flair and creativity we don't have.

 

Anier and Ainsworth have been hit and miss and Lawson basically very poor.

 

We are doing ok in the league and the next two games are where to really judge where we are in this slump and as to how it wil shape the remainder of our season but McCall has more than earned enough credit in his time here to get plenty more time to fix the many flaws we have.

 

But a sense of perspective needs to be kept, we can't just ring the changes and replace the quality we lost as easily as nipping down the supermarket. It took Tommy McLean years to really get his team together when it was arguably much easier to do so. We even spent money on transfer fees back then.

[MJC_MKI]

We never had a hope in hell of going forward this season and no manager in the game would have been able to do so with our resources.

 

Doesn't mean I'm not disappointed in what I'm seeing or even that McCall doesn't deserve a bit of criticism.

 

But losing Randolph, Law, Ojamma, Humphrey, Higdon is the single biggest upheaval I can recall. It's an even bigger dent to quality of the squad than the season we lost Paul Lambert and Rab McKinnon at the same time.

 

We brought in some decent looking signings, but it's hard to legislate for nearly all of them not gelling or showing themselves at their best. McManus and Sutton have done alright, but who'd have thought McFadden would be so poor, or that Vigurs would struggle as much as he has. These guys should be offering us the flair and creativity we don't have.

 

Anier and Ainsworth have been hit and miss and Lawson basically very poor.

 

We are doing ok in the league and the next two games are where to really judge where we are in this slump and as to how it wil shape the remainder of our season but McCall has more than earned enough credit in his time here to get plenty more time to fix the many flaws we have.

 

But a sense of perspective needs to be kept, we can just ring the changes and replace the quality we lost as easily as nipping down the supermarket. It took Tommy McLean years to really get his team together when it was arguably much easier to do so. We even spent money on transfer fees back then.

 

 

 

Of course, this season was always going to see us go backwards from where we ended last season.

 

But that's not my concern with regards to McCall right now. He knew he would have had to rebuild the squad over the summer if he knocked back the Sheffield Utd job so it was always going to be a massive task for him. The players he's brought in, with the exception of McManus and Sutton to an extent, just haven't worked and I seriously have to question why he brought in both Lawson and Vigurs from Ross County. What was his plan for them? Where were they going to fit in? And what about McFadden and the money we are forking out with little in return? I believed at the time and still do that McCall put most of his eggs in the one basket with Faddy's signing in the hope that he'd stay fit and be the bit of flair in the team without scouting other options.

 

Looking at the team now, half way through the season almost. We are disjointed, disheartened and have nothing about us. This is the team that McCall built and it is not working. He continues to make the same mistakes with his approach to bigger games but he no longer has Higdon or Randolph to bail him out anymore and it's showing. The football we have played this season has been uninspiring and as a team we look directionless. Our midfield consists of one player, Keith Lasley, whom I love to bits but he can't do it all himself, he's 34 years old afterall, and our defence has absolutely no protection and are shipping goals at an alarming rate.

 

As I've said elsewhere, changing the manager has benefited us in the past because we've done it at the right time and I just don't see what else Stuart McCall can do for us. I don't expect him to win the League, or finish 2nd every season, or win the Cup, but we are going backwards under him now and unless we want to end up in Kilmarnock's position in the next year then I think we need a change.