daver Posted February 19, 2014 Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 They were roundly condemned in the media and by their club. As you said, some of their members were suspended - that meant they were going to come back. Did you seriously think Celtic were going to give life bans to lots of supporters when they had no proof against individuals? I'd like to think the police would have been doing something about it if that sort of proof was available. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJC_MKI Posted February 19, 2014 Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 1392802385[/url]' post='406264']They were roundly condemned in the media and by their club. As you said, some of their members were suspended - that meant they were going to come back. Did you seriously think Celtic were going to give life bans to lots of supporters when they had no proof against individuals? I'd like to think the police would have been doing something about it if that sort of proof was available. They knew fine well that the perpetrators of the damage was the Green Brigade - a group that has a history of violence and political demonstrations within football grounds and whom Celtic have vowed to ban on numerous occasions - both directly by doing it themselves and indirectly by orchestrating others joining in. The huge 'Green Brigade' banners at the front of the stand in the middle section where the worst damage and pyro took place was a bit of a give away as to who was behind this incident. Why were 128 supporters 'suspended' if they hadn't some idea who was behind the trouble or had no proof against anyone? They must have had some proof or reason to suspend folk. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
numpty Posted February 19, 2014 Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 The huge 'Green Brigade' banners at the front of the stand in the middle section where the worst damage and pyro took place was a bit of a give away as to who was behind this incident. Why were 128 supporters 'suspended' if they hadn't some idea who was behind the trouble or had no proof against anyone? They must have had some proof or reason to suspend folk. For the reasons you just gave--there were plenty of circumstantial evidence as to what group of people was responsible, so they suspended the lot of them pending further enquires. But it's one thing having some idea about what group is responsible, and another proving individual liability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaka Posted February 19, 2014 Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 For the reasons you just gave--there were plenty of circumstantial evidence as to what group of people was responsible, so they suspended the lot of them pending further enquires. But it's one thing having some idea about what group is responsible, and another proving individual liability. I thought thats why the Police stood and did fuck all? it wasnt them shiting their pants,it was them "gathering evidence" so they could arrest at a later date, therefore proving individual liability wouldnt have been too difficult surely? Celtic DIDNT WANT to prove individual liability, they wanted to give lip service and let the scumbags back in when the heat had died down 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 19, 2014 Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 They knew fine well that the perpetrators of the damage was the Green Brigade - a group that has a history of violence and political demonstrations within football grounds Sorry, just to be clear, whats the problem with this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frazzie Posted February 19, 2014 Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 Sorry, just to be clear, whats the problem with this? Most people would say that football and politics shouldn't mix, even if it's not breaching any official rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiderpig Posted February 19, 2014 Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 Sorry, just to be clear, whats the problem with this? Politics are fine but open support for banned terrorist organisations and individuals is not and thats what the GB are up to. The problem now is they think they are untouchable, Celtic are shit scared of upsetting them, the SFA do feck all as they dont want to annoy Celtic, Police Scotland..aye right,And the media give them an easy time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJC_MKI Posted February 19, 2014 Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 1392829860[/url]' post='406282']Sorry, just to be clear, whats the problem with this? Well firstly, as has been said already, football grounds are not the place for political demonstrations, a view shared by UEFA who take a dim view of football being mixed with politics. Celtic's support, especially that particular group are more like political activists who use football grounds as a platform to air these views and many people object to having this nonsense shoved in their faces within football grounds. Celtic fans bring a non football angle to things and I and many others have a problem with this. Secondly, they are openly supporting an organisation which has been outlawed in this country as a terrorist group and whle I am not particularly offended by IRA promoting chants or banners, support for a terrorist organisation is against the law so they shouldn't get away with it. Substitute IRA for al-Qaeda inside a football ground, do people think this would be tolerated? And thirdly, the thing that really rankles me with Celtic and their support even more so than all of the above is the rank hypocrisy they display time and again. They were up in arms about the 'Armed Forces' day at Ibrox last year, complaining that it had no place in a football ground and brought in a non football angle, they were up in arms about a song telling them 'to go home' yet constantly sing in support of Irish politics and Irish Republican terror groups. Well, they can't have it both ways but that's what they appear to want. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foghorn Posted February 19, 2014 Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 I thought thats why the Police stood and did fuck all? it wasnt them shiting their pants,it was them "gathering evidence" so they could arrest at a later date, therefore proving individual liability wouldnt have been too difficult surely? Celtic DIDNT WANT to prove individual liability, they wanted to give lip service and let the scumbags back in when the heat had died down Arrests were made at a later date - but they all had ML postcodes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DunnyMFC Posted February 19, 2014 Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 Spot on MJC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted February 19, 2014 Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 Agree with MJC about the politics. I'm all for freedom of speech and very much a political animal myself, but I don't want any of it inside my football grounds thanks - legal or illegal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daver Posted February 20, 2014 Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 Whether it's legal or not, individual clubs can have a code of conduct that bans anything they want as long as it isn't discriminatory. I thought that generally involved political displays or demonstrations but I haven't checked Motherwell's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJC_MKI Posted February 20, 2014 Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 UEFA rules prohibit any demonstrations or messages of a political or ideological nature, these were the grounds upon which Celtic were fined for their 'William Wallace/Bobby Sands' banner earlier this season. Therefore it is illegal to stage any form of political demonstration within football grounds so by doing so Celtic's Green Brigade are committing an offence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 20, 2014 Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 Well firstly, as has been said already, football grounds are not the place for political demonstrations, a view shared by UEFA who take a dim view of football being mixed with politics. Celtic's support, especially that particular group are more like political activists who use football grounds as a platform to air these views and many people object to having this nonsense shoved in their faces within football grounds. Celtic fans bring a non football angle to things and I and many others have a problem with this. Different strokes for different folks, like. For example, the lads doing the Artic 30 banner off the roof in Basel when they were playing Zenit, sponsored by Gazprom, a company with a...dubious history, we'll say. I can't think of a better arena to raise this, given that Gazprom are trying to legitimise themselves through football. Secondly, they are openly supporting an organisation which has been outlawed in this country as a terrorist group and whle I am not particularly offended by IRA promoting chants or banners, support for a terrorist organisation is against the law so they shouldn't get away with it. Substitute IRA for al-Qaeda inside a football ground, do people think this would be tolerated? Like, I'm kind of wary of engaging with Northern Ireland and the issues that come with it at all, really, because there's no-one that comes out of that with any credit whatsoever. Nonetheless.. for example, the William Wallace - Bobby Sands banner, like... its a terribly simple point they're trying to make, and its the kind of hackneyed 'I've read one book and because of this I'm smarter than all of you' logic which seems to do the rounds with it, but I can see their point with it. Forever and always, one man's terrorist is another's freedom fighter, and that's a universal thing, really. Would you make the same point to someone wearing a Che Guevarra t-shirt? Re: Al Qaeda/IRA, kinda facetious, nah? Anyway, it wouldn't be tolerated at all, because they're not in any way (certainly in the UK) viewed as a 'Freedom movement' or anything like that at all. And thirdly, the thing that really rankles me with Celtic and their support even more so than all of the above is the rank hypocrisy they display time and again. They were up in arms about the 'Armed Forces' day at Ibrox last year, complaining that it had no place in a football ground and brought in a non football angle, they were up in arms about a song telling them 'to go home' yet constantly sing in support of Irish politics and Irish Republican terror groups. Well, they can't have it both ways but that's what they appear to want. Yeah, I don't disagree at all. Frankly, I think both Armed Forces day and the aforementioned Wallace/Sands banner are both an absolute riddy of colossal proportions, but I don't see either as being any less valid in principle, I just think they're shite. Ultimately, I don't think there's anything wrong with a political demonstration at the football, the Green Brigade are in general, pretty shite at it though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJC_MKI Posted February 20, 2014 Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 Well me and you are going to have to agree to disagree on the issue of political demonstrations within a football ground.(indeed yourself and UEFA are going to need to agree to disagree). You are perfectly entitled to hold that view if that is how you see it. I must however take issue with the IRA/al-queda...terrorist/freedom fighter part of your point though. You quite rightly acknowledge the 'one man's terrorist' argument on the IRA's part but dismiss it on al-queada's??? Like it or not they too would claim the 'one man's terrorist, another's freedom fighter' stance and if you can accept that from one terrorist group then the same must apply to any other, regardless of what their cause is. However, all of this is moving away from the real issue of this topic and that is that a group of Celtic's support caused mayhem and thousands of pounds worth of damage inside Fir Park in December and despite them and the police vowing to weed out the culprits, very little has come of this and indeed the same group which were undoubtedly responsible have now been allowed to return to attend Celtic matches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well Well Posted February 20, 2014 Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 Ultimately, I don't think there's anything wrong with a political demonstration at the football, the Green Brigade are in general, pretty shite at it though. They are there to support a football team, not make a political statement - end of. What a pile of shite, keep all yer political pish away from football hard as it is for the green and blue side of the divide. I would hammer every single club that went down this route and allowed this in their stadiums to the point of -10 point deduction for ever instance. Political demonstrations has absolutely no place in a football stadium and how you could see it any other way is completely beyond me. Life is bad enough dealing with the bloody walks every summer on both sides and the radio phone in shows which feeds enough of it without it coming into the stadiums. We want to watch what is happening on the pitch not reading pish slogans in the stands unless it is FOOTBALL related. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted February 20, 2014 Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 Like, I'm kind of wary of engaging with Northern Ireland and the issues that come with it at all, really, because there's no-one that comes out of that with any credit whatsoever. Nonetheless.. for example, the William Wallace - Bobby Sands banner, like... its a terribly simple point they're trying to make, and its the kind of hackneyed 'I've read one book and because of this I'm smarter than all of you' logic which seems to do the rounds with it, but I can see their point with it. Forever and always, one man's terrorist is another's freedom fighter, and that's a universal thing, really. Would you make the same point to someone wearing a Che Guevarra t-shirt? Re: Al Qaeda/IRA, kinda facetious, nah? Anyway, it wouldn't be tolerated at all, because they're not in any way (certainly in the UK) viewed as a 'Freedom movement' or anything like that at all. there is no sensible point behind the wiliam wallace thing. brining up something that happened 700 years ago and comparing it to the modern era is the height of stupidity. the fact that league is struggling to get a sponsor probably isn't helped by these muppets either. in the same week they have managed to get roll of honour into the charts the ira have sent 7 parcel bombs to england and one of the dieters they are 'honouring' has been implicated in a sectarian massacre at an official inquiry. how many businesses want to be associated with that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted February 20, 2014 Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 Well firstly, as has been said already, football grounds are not the place for political demonstrations, a view shared by UEFA who take a dim view of football being mixed with politics. Unless it's someone like Nelson Mandela, of course. Celtic's support, especially that particular group are more like political activists who use football grounds as a platform to air these views and many people object to having this nonsense shoved in their faces within football grounds. Celtic fans bring a non football angle to things and I and many others have a problem with this. There are many clubs the world over who do this. Barcelona are infamous for it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJC_MKI Posted February 20, 2014 Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 You mean when clubs held a minutes silence in honour of Nelson Mandela ? A man largely respected worldwide. And yes that's not football related, but it was confined to 60 seconds before matches... Hardly the same as openly pushing an agenda during the game via a largescale demonstration. And Barcelona "are infamous for it" too...well so what? That doesn't make it right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted February 21, 2014 Report Share Posted February 21, 2014 You mean when clubs held a minutes silence in honour of Nelson Mandela ? A man largely respected worldwide. And yes that's not football related, but it was confined to 60 seconds before matches... Hardly the same as openly pushing an agenda during the game via a largescale demonstration. And Barcelona "are infamous for it" too...well so what? That doesn't make it right. If my memory serves me correctly I think UEFA had approved Nelson Mandela banners at stadiums after his death, hadn't they? That was an example of them encouraging political interaction in my opinion. Besides, the hypocrisy of the likes of UEFA is well known. And my point in bringing up Barcelona is that many clubs are founded on political beliefs and ideals. To simply try and dismiss it is ridiculous in my opinion. You may not like it, but it's there, and it won't go away, no matter how many men in grey suits who claim free lunches try to make it so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 21, 2014 Report Share Posted February 21, 2014 Well me and you are going to have to agree to disagree on the issue of political demonstrations within a football ground.(indeed yourself and UEFA are going to need to agree to disagree). You are perfectly entitled to hold that view if that is how you see it. That's totally fine I'm well aware that others entirely disagree with it. I'm not stone headed about it, and why I'm very glad that the Bois don't get involved in things like it, because it is a wholly divisive issue. I'm also perfectly happy to disagree with UEFA! I must however take issue with the IRA/al-queda...terrorist/freedom fighter part of your point though. You quite rightly acknowledge the 'one man's terrorist' argument on the IRA's part but dismiss it on al-queada's??? Like it or not they too would claim the 'one man's terrorist, another's freedom fighter' stance and if you can accept that from one terrorist group then the same must apply to any other, regardless of what their cause is. Sorry, I'm not entirely sure I explained myself as I meant to. I wasn't attempting to dismiss the argument, it was more a question of what was likely to be supported in the UK, if that makes sense? It is just such an unlikely thing to gain support, it didn't seem a reasonable comparison. I can entirely see where you're coming from though. However, all of this is moving away from the real issue of this topic and that is that a group of Celtic's support caused mayhem and thousands of pounds worth of damage inside Fir Park in December and despite them and the police vowing to weed out the culprits, very little has come of this and indeed the same group which were undoubtedly responsible have now been allowed to return to attend Celtic matches. It is, entirely. They continue to fuck things up in other grounds and like you say, fuck all has been done. I try not to go down the 'we pay for your hats' line, but its difficult not to when they do absolutely nothing to weed out those who smashed up our ground. They are there to support a football team, not make a political statement - end of. What a pile of shite, keep all yer political pish away from football hard as it is for the green and blue side of the divide. I would hammer every single club that went down this route and allowed this in their stadiums to the point of -10 point deduction for ever instance. Political demonstrations has absolutely no place in a football stadium and how you could see it any other way is completely beyond me. Life is bad enough dealing with the bloody walks every summer on both sides and the radio phone in shows which feeds enough of it without it coming into the stadiums. We want to watch what is happening on the pitch not reading pish slogans in the stands unless it is FOOTBALL related. Politics doesn't keep itself solely within the boundaries of Lanarkshire and isn't solely restricted to whether you're a oprod or not, does it? Supporters across Europe raise various issues relevant to them, or to the region to raise awareness, and I don't see anything wrong with that at all. They know they'll get coverage, they know 40,000 people will see it and take note. Like I said, I just think the GB are just a bit shite at it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted February 21, 2014 Report Share Posted February 21, 2014 Supporters across Europe raise various issues relevant to them, or to the region to raise awareness, and I don't see anything wrong with that at all. They know they'll get coverage, they know 40,000 people will see it and take note. Like I said, I just think the GB are just a bit shite at it. I think that sums it up really. The Green Brigade like to think of themselves as some sort of St Pauli spin-off with the class and windswept interest of the Catalans, but they're actually just arseholes using politics as an excuse to cause grief. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frazzie Posted February 21, 2014 Report Share Posted February 21, 2014 Plus the politics they raise aren't relevant to their region. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted February 21, 2014 Report Share Posted February 21, 2014 Plus the politics they raise aren't relevant to their region. Anyone who's actually been to Southern Ireland would tell you that the politics they raise aren't even relevant to that region either these days. Most parties have moved on to a democratic solution, apart from the west of Scotland it seems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brazilian Posted February 21, 2014 Report Share Posted February 21, 2014 Anyone who's actually been to Southern Ireland would tell you that the politics they raise aren't even relevant to that region either these days. Most parties have moved on to a democratic solution, apart from the west of Scotland it seems. I worked in the South East of Ireland (where is southern Ireland?) and I can assure you they have very long memories on these subjects , they might currently be distracted by being turned over by those that raped the Celtic Tiger, but the politics will remain as they have for many centuries yet when they get back on their feet. just mention the name Cromwell and enjoy the history lesson. as for the plastic Irishmen from the East-end, blame their poorly educated parent or grandparents for their confused identity, and some very smart instigators who live off the bile Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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