MainStandPigeon Posted January 9, 2014 Report Share Posted January 9, 2014 Been looking through the attendance figures at Fir Park for the last 10 odd years, we're down to averaging about 5000 over the course of the season despite having some successful years on the park recently. Part of the decrease recently can I guess be attributed to Rangers not currently being in the Scot Prem. What do we need to do to get more people through the turnstiles, any ideas? I know a lot of people will say "we've tried" but we can never stop trying. It's not just an issue for the club itself to deal with, it's all of us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well Up For It! Posted January 9, 2014 Report Share Posted January 9, 2014 For me, it's a simple fact of folk feeling the pinch with living costs on the up and Scottish Football being FAR TOO expensive in general for what's on show. Also, as folk get older and move away, work & life interfere with football - and with the xbox/playstation/internet generation more and more kids just aren't interested in going to football. And then you have the amount of live TV games and silly kick off times. The club has done very well to try build numbers, but it's a tough job. One thing that hasn't been tried that may work is a switch to summer football. Failing that, only a massive sponsorship deal where clubs can reduce prices by 30-40% percent and not struggle for cash will bring the attendances back up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underboyleheating Posted January 9, 2014 Report Share Posted January 9, 2014 we're down to averaging about 5000 over the course of the season Historically we have only ever attracted an average of about 5000-5,500 to our home games. This is partly due to how near distance wise we are to both the Old Firm teams. In the future I don’t expect this figure to change significantly, in fact we may start to see a slight drop, as people are choose to spend their disposable income in different ways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted January 9, 2014 Report Share Posted January 9, 2014 For me, it's a simple fact of folk feeling the pinch with living costs on the up and Scottish Football being FAR TOO expensive in general for what's on show. I don't disagree with that, but the question then becomes if we lower the quality - which would be inevitable if we lowered our annual income as a club - would that attract any more fans? Or would our reduced competitiveness and almost certainly shorter cup runs end up lowering attendances even more? The Board does a great job trying to balance the books, and a significant portion of our income is gate money. Drop our prices to 15 quid a head and that means we need to pull in about 1500 extra fans every week to make up the shortfall. The obvious way to reduce prices would be an improved sponsorship/TV deal, but the eejits in charge of our game continue to undersell it on a regular basis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prideoflanarkshire Posted January 9, 2014 Report Share Posted January 9, 2014 I agree with the above posts but you also have to consider that there is no advantage to declaring more people through the gate (if there is). There are certain financial benefits to declare a figure rather than the actual figure of attendants. We all know it happens EVERYWHERE. How many times you sat in the ground and the attendance is announced when you think there's no way that the attendance is that low. I do not think you should read into the stats to closely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted January 9, 2014 Report Share Posted January 9, 2014 I agree with the above posts but you also have to consider that there is no advantage to declaring more people through the gate (if there is). There are certain financial benefits to declare a figure rather than the actual figure of attendants. We all know it happens EVERYWHERE. How many times you sat in the ground and the attendance is announced when you think there's no way that the attendance is that low. I do not think you should read into the stats to closely. So you are accusing our board of filing false accounts every year? And the Inland Revenue being stupid enough to fall for it every year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judge Jules Posted January 9, 2014 Report Share Posted January 9, 2014 Its a lot more fashionable for a lot of people in Lanarkshire to follow the ugly sisters and all the shit that comes with it. Personally i think a lot of it starts in High School where most weans at catholic schools say "i'm a catholic therefore i must be a Celtic fan" and at the non-dom schools the peer pressure is to be a Sevco fan. I've seen it happen when i was at a non-dom school Well fans defecting to both sides of the auld scum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prideoflanarkshire Posted January 9, 2014 Report Share Posted January 9, 2014 So you are accusing our board of filing false accounts every year? And the Inland Revenue being stupid enough to fall for it every year? Its call tax avoidance...if you do not think that happens then thats up to you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santheman Posted January 9, 2014 Report Share Posted January 9, 2014 I used to think it was all down to pricing but have started to think its not just that. Started going to watch the ice hockey at Braehead Clan where ticket prices are £18/£16/£14 so not that cheap yet they just posted their highest ever attendance last week. It's certainly entertaining with all the music etc but no more than the footie IMO so why are their attendances going up? Think it's because they're not competing with any other teams in the area and are attracting fans from all over the West of Scotland unlike football where it is dominated by the Old Firm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cambo97 Posted January 9, 2014 Report Share Posted January 9, 2014 Its call tax avoidance...if you do not think that happens then thats up to you No it's not it would be Tax Evasion and fraud which is illegal. Tax avoidance is legal avoidance of tax. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Diggle Posted January 9, 2014 Report Share Posted January 9, 2014 Ooft some thread so far 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goggles & Flippers Posted January 9, 2014 Report Share Posted January 9, 2014 No it's not it would be Tax Evasion and fraud which is illegal. Tax avoidance is legal avoidance of tax. Maybe because you'd be inclined to shift the goalposts and not declare everything if you were in a position to do so, doesn't mean those at the club feel the same. Its a big call to make to either countenance or promote behaviour such as that when as the senior management team and board members are personally liable for any legal redress, to what put an extra £25k in the coffers every year. Wisen up. As for the attendances issue. We have a core, elements of that core has diminished over the past few years as the general apathy with Scottish football has encroached. Many of my mates who held season tickets have put their £300 towards golf memberships, increased their sky package or just put it in their hippy. The issue we have and I don't think its Motherwell in general its the whole of Scottish football. Commercial departments focus too much on signage, corporate meals and boxes, sponsorship and program ads. Yes these are a significant revenue stream but I feel they are prioritised over bums on seats. 1,000 extra per match results in approximately £300k per season (or 4 first team players), I'm sure I've read before that Derek Weir suggested that this would take us from touch and go, to living comfortably. So what do we do about it? Well if you've lapsed you may get a letter through the post reminding you or a half hearted call. Mind you it's 1,000 calls to return the same money as 100 would from non-ticket related sales. We've not capitalised on our success' of late on the park, I think its safe to say we've got a decent 2,000 fans that could be cajoled if they were engaged, we've seen the population of Motherwell/Wishaw/New Stevenson/Bellshill increase with all the new homes, what's been done to encourage them to consider Motherwell. Every visit those with kids make to a soft play place, swimming pool, etc. costs a fair bit of money (I don't know what Rainforest Adventure is, maybe someone can advise). To market to Dad's in particular, hey you can take up to 2 kids to the football 20 times a year, get them out the house for 3-3.5 hours, combined with a benefits scheme that results in the one ticket they would have to buy would be effectively free (by visiting McD's once a month, Pizza Hut, every 3) is overlooked as too many don't know about it. As for those without kids, the club engaging with them rather than just assuming their loyalty will be enough is no longer acceptable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoF Posted January 9, 2014 Report Share Posted January 9, 2014 The club have stated on a few ocassions they're aiming to get the average crowd up to 8000 which seems like a massive challenge when attendances are falling. However, I've always thought about the season ticket initiative Bradford, Hartlepool and Huddersfield have all tried and I've mentioned it previously on here sparking some arguments for and against but here's the general idea.... When McCall first joined Bradford in 2007, they ran a season ticket offer in which the price was dictated by the number sold (the more supports pledged to buy a ticket, the cheaper they became). They managed to get the adult price down to £138, which worked out at £6 a game, and went from an average crowd of almost 9000 to almost 14000. Not saying we'll add 5000 onto our gate but I'd love to see it tried. Can't see how the club can lose out and there's a chance, if the price can be reduced enough, we'd see a nice increase in tickets sold. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoF Posted January 9, 2014 Report Share Posted January 9, 2014 Also, when discussions come up about ticket prices I frequently see folk say ' about £15' is the price worth paying. A season ticket in the East Stand works out at lower than that price (£270 / 19 league + 1 cup game = £13.50 per game) which is great value for money. I wonder if the club do enough to drill that figure home when advertising season tickets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmacd1 Posted January 9, 2014 Report Share Posted January 9, 2014 Season ticket prices are good if you can make the games, given that spl clubs are happy to shaft fans and change times with no consideration for the guys handing money over. Prices for match tickets in Scottish football are shocking for what's on offer. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted January 9, 2014 Report Share Posted January 9, 2014 Also, when discussions come up about ticket prices I frequently see folk say ' about £15' is the price worth paying. A season ticket in the East Stand works out at lower than that price (£270 / 19 league + 1 cup game = £13.50 per game) which is great value for money. I wonder if the club do enough to drill that figure home when advertising season tickets. Was watching the Forest Green Rovers game tonight. They play in the Conference Premier and were my local team when I lived in Stroud. Just for kicks, took a look at their season ticket prices: 280 quid if you want to stand 325 quid to sit Doesn't make Scottish prices good, but they stack up quite well in comparison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brazilian Posted January 9, 2014 Report Share Posted January 9, 2014 Also, when discussions come up about ticket prices I frequently see folk say ' about £15' is the price worth paying. A season ticket in the East Stand works out at lower than that price (£270 / 19 league + 1 cup game = £13.50 per game) which is great value for money. I wonder if the club do enough to drill that figure home when advertising season tickets. I have to agree , that on paper that's great value, and if the purchaser benefits from free kids tickets in addition its even better value. but.... with insulting match scheduling, even some quite 'devoted?' fans will get no where near the 20 matches , 'sold' to them and suddenly that great value feels like they've been scammed..... still good value and I'm not knocking our clubs ST pricing and promotion, but fixture scheduling kills the excellent value. my take on the often commented ticket prices being too expensive is quite simple, high PATG prices in a stadium two thirds empty , is what is restricting any growth, charging £22 for anyone to walk up and view a game, is Mental. see all the folks that boosted crowds at Fir park, in the promotional games or the European nights when they pay some extra as a treat, or even just a lapsed fan who finds their way back? asking them to pay current league pricing to keep coming back , just doesn't promote or encourage anyone to follow up the rare visits. I've got a mate who know works abroad, when he comes home he always wants to take in games, he'll very rarely take in more than one on any trip now, ask him why, simply the cost. I and a number of pals are Motherwell fans, because as kids, we could jump on public transport on a Saturday afternoon get to Motherwell , pay in, get a snack, occasionally buy WFGLF or OSB and get train home, all for some very modest pocket money. Prices were such that, when the 'Well were further afield we'd even nip up to Hamilton games, as saving up for the next Motherwell game wasn't needed. the club ran buses to take us to occasional away games, habits formed, football was part of the weekly routine, missing games was frustrating and travelling more to away games etc. all this eventually led to us buying ST's as gate prices kept increasing. so for me PATG pricing and match scheduling combined need to change before we boost the home fan average crowd significantly , sadly I don't see either changing soon, as for current numbers, well done MFC, the only thing that makes it look low, is the drop off in visiting fans, a few big hitters missing , but not making ourselves the first choice away game for other fans, seems like a missed opportunity Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yabba's Turd Posted January 10, 2014 Report Share Posted January 10, 2014 Also, when discussions come up about ticket prices I frequently see folk say ' about £15' is the price worth paying. A season ticket in the East Stand works out at lower than that price (£270 / 19 league + 1 cup game = £13.50 per game) which is great value for money. I wonder if the club do enough to drill that figure home when advertising season tickets. If you could guarantee 3pm on a Saturday or at least only 3 home games on a Sunday then I'd be buying a season ticket, but Friday football and odd kick off times mean the value goes out the window for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ya Bezzer! Posted January 10, 2014 Report Share Posted January 10, 2014 It concerns me when attendances drop below 4,000 because I think has been traditional our base figure in the time that I've been going to the matches and when it goes below that alarm bells should be raised. We were getting decent enough crowds earlier in the season but they have dropped off lately. There could be various reasons for that but I think the Albion Rovers defeat was a huge blow and will lose us much more money than simply losing out on a cup run. Also December/January are expensive months for a lot of people and I know quite a lot of people who go away over the Christmas period. If you see the TV pictures of Fir Park lately though I doubt very much if the club is reporting false figures. Even the East Stand has been pretty sparse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well Up For It! Posted January 10, 2014 Report Share Posted January 10, 2014 I don't disagree with that, but the question then becomes if we lower the quality - which would be inevitable if we lowered our annual income as a club - would that attract any more fans? I ment in realtions that we are still playing roughly the same as we were 10years ago when there was a much higher standard on offer. But take your point about lower price = less money = even lower standard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MainStandPigeon Posted January 10, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2014 We need to test pricing structures further as part of a wider investigation into how to get the crowds back into football grounds, I'm convinced there is some sort method that can be applied in Scotland. Some German teams have found a pricing structure that works for them, and it's no coincidence their clubs are experiencing a mini revival on the European stage, especially BVB and Leverkusen. There's more that can be done, 8000 as a long term goal is achievable, if we got around that figure and at the same time increased our revenues we'd be well placed to retain our Premiership place and fight for Europe regularly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welldaft Mk1 Posted January 10, 2014 Report Share Posted January 10, 2014 The German teams can subsidize their gate prices. I am sure Motherwell could charge a Tenner if we got 40m Euros from TV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MainStandPigeon Posted January 11, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2014 I know but that's what I mean when I say we need to find a structure that works for us. What the Germans do, we can't but there is money out there, perhaps not on the same scale but money is out there that given the correct amount and distribution, would allow for clubs to charge less at the gates. Besides the pricing issues is just one point, there's a lot more that can be done to bring the punters in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy_P Posted January 11, 2014 Report Share Posted January 11, 2014 I know but that's what I mean when I say we need to find a structure that works for us. What the Germans do, we can't but there is money out there, perhaps not on the same scale but money is out there that given the correct amount and distribution, would allow for clubs to charge less at the gates. Besides the pricing issues is just one point, there's a lot more that can be done to bring the punters in. The immediate thing I think when reading that is the floor is yours, do tell us how it's how done...... I like your enthusiasm and drive to see things improve no doubt but there are clubs in administration currently, clubs who have been in administration, clubs on the brink of administration if that money is there somewhere, those punters are there, plenty teams would love to know how to be able to tap into both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelmaninOZ Posted January 11, 2014 Report Share Posted January 11, 2014 Albion Rovers had a wee big crowd today Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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