Kmcalpin Posted February 26, 2014 Report Share Posted February 26, 2014 IIs it subversive or out of order to suggest we have a midfield that at least can compete with anyone other than the dross at the foot of the table? That for me is our biggest shortcoming this season, apart maybe from our goalkeeping situation. OK at the moment we are carrying injuries but as you say we simply aren't competing. Our midfield problems are the largest single factor in our poor goals against record. Right now, our midfield is not shielding the defence and not supporting the strikers. Last night Saints could run up and down the wings largely unopposed and run straight at out central defenders. In his defence, Gunnar Neilsen was being left very exposed at times. John Sutton and Henri didn't have the best of games, but to be fair, they received very poor service. By way of contrast, Saints' midfield played high up the park and didn't allow us to get at their defence and certainly not their keeper. The corners tally bears witness to that. Keith Lasley has been our best midfielder this season but he is getting on and that's showing. He's also not the kind of player to impose himself on games and is prone to being anonymous at times. To compound matters, he's not fit just now as we know. Stuart Carswell, for me hasn't really proved himself this season. Yes, he's had the odd decent game but that's about it. In the last 2 games he's been largely anonymous. Again he's not fit. Questions were recently asked as to why he's wasn't selected for the national squad - I'm surprised the question was even asked. Iain Vigurs is a specialist player who needs mobile aggressive and hard working guys around him - he doesn't have that luxury at Fir Park. ZFA is beginning to worry to me and I certainly would not play him & Vigurs in the same midfield. Lionel Ainsworth blows hot and cold but isn't the best defender in the world and leaves his full back exposed. Paul Lawson - looks a bit slow but haven't really seen much of him to comment. Ok we are lying third but questions do need to be asked of our midfield players? As I see it, one year into our rebuilding programme, our midfield needs major attention. As for Saturday - maybe time to introduce a youngster - Jack Leitch? He won't be the solution on his own but lets see what he can do. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prideoflanarkshire Posted February 26, 2014 Report Share Posted February 26, 2014 Well, after getting home late last night I thought I would let my anger reduce before I posted: Last night was shocking simply no game plan. I am not one for having a go at the team because when you look at it we are still in the mix and potentially 1 point behind the team that is having the best season ever. The three players I think are our major flaw are: Nielson - Goalkeepers are there to win you point, Nielson has won very few if any. If they can't win you points then they are there not to lose you points, Nielson has lost us a few. Basic basic errors. Punching when should be holding, kicking poorly, kicking from the ground and not his hands, spilling balls. Remember McCall signed him now picks him! Zaine - Can anyone tell me what his solid position is? LB, looks weak and naive. LM, can't take a man on and can't cross. He's now 21 and going backwards in his progression. At the very least we should be able to say what his strongest position is. Vigurs - Luxury player we simply can not afford. Struggles to track back, tackle, and never seems to burst a gut. His training partner would be Ross Forbes as they are as slow as each other. Decent touch and passing but what does he really offer. I could put McFadden & Lawson into the underachievers mix too. I think McCall needs to pick a formation and stick with it. I know we do not have a multitude of players to pick from but putting square pegs in round holes is simply not working. We looked completely lost last night and Friday. Looking at the league table position and points look good and yes we are still in it, no question, however we are the only team in the top six that does not have a plus goal difference. To many appalling performances and leaking goals. March is a BIG month that could see us still very much in the hunt for Europe or end our season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milo Posted February 26, 2014 Report Share Posted February 26, 2014 Some pretty damning testimonies from those at the game last night. All of it constructive as well. I didn't think we could top the last display at McDiarmid but we look to have achieved that sadly. Just seen the highlights. What the fuck was Neilsen doing for the first goal?!?!?! How is it even possible to push the ball back towards goal like that? The guy is an absolute liabilty! Should have his contract terminated asap. He's that bad. Hammell sleeping/not interested for the second as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Stall Posted February 26, 2014 Report Share Posted February 26, 2014 I think theres a bit of a difference here between being ‘happy clappy’, ‘realistic’ and a ‘panty wetting moron’. I’d probably be classed as happy clappy. Im quite happy that despite the budget cuts and player loses we are still sitting 3rd in the league and within touching distance of second. In fact while Aberdeen were clearly better than us in the first game of the season, they only snatched a draw with us last month due to inept goal keeping and a blatant handball. The last 2 months Aberdeen have had decision after decision go their way and a hat full of late goals. Are they better than us? Probably, but they are not lightyears ahead despite the bigger squad and wages available. Am I happy that the first three months of the season we played turgid football? Of course not. Am I happy that we have a disaster between the sticks? Not in the least. Am I happy that we are a bawhair off 2nd place and have essentially qualified for the top 6 despite the budget cuts and players out? Definitely. Could we be doing things better? Yes. Could we be doing things worse, yes, much worse. The thought processes displayed on here back in November wanting McCall out verged on hysterical, looks like we are going to be going back down that road. Give yourselves a shake! 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Diggle Posted February 26, 2014 Report Share Posted February 26, 2014 Nail, heid, etc 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prideoflanarkshire Posted February 26, 2014 Report Share Posted February 26, 2014 I am definitely not in the "get rid of the manager camp" as he has been great for us during his time at the Arc. However, sometimes I really wonder what he is thinking. I know his knowledge of the players are far better than mine and who am I to question him but as a paying punter some decisions are just wrong in my eyes. Take last night our midfield was all wrong. No balance, no shape and players playing in the wrong positions. No right mid, three center mids and a left mid that offered very little. Simply did not work and took him til we were 2 down and half time to even remotely change it. Playing big John upfront himself on many occasions. Changing two positions at the back when one would do. Hammy moved to right back and Zanie left back. That didn't work neither. As I say, most of the time his decisions are positive, however, there are some that just don't add up to me but then again he's prob on the training field right now and I am behind this keyboard 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goggles & Flippers Posted February 26, 2014 Report Share Posted February 26, 2014 I'm nowhere near calling for McCall's head, just sometimes I'm left scratching my head, things he says, Hammell at RB, resting players early on to no avail and a lack of ideas in too many games. Our league placing flatters us only because the bottom 6 are so awful. I look at this run of results, Aberdeen away and St Johnstone on Ne'erday stand out, however we've been spanked too often by teams around us and handed out only one of our own. We have scored 8 out of a possible 39 so far this season. It's not out of order or hysterical to suggest that when getting interviewed in advance of a game, not going in with a conciliatory, laissez faire, ahh well attitude. We know Celtic are streets ahead, don't admit it though, don't see Tel or McInnes saying shit like that before they play them and guess what, they've pulled off a couple of results or at least compete. I don't mind getting spanked if we fought hard and were outclassed, I do mind when people give up, Celtic away in October is a prime example. I also don't think its out of order to suggest that after 30 games a degree of understanding and competency should be exhibited by the midfield. Virtually no goals, lamented on here too often from early July till last night. Two winnable games against Aberdeen and Albion Rovers would have at least secured a semi at Tynecastle with £120k of the gate plus telly with potential for the final and the money from that. You would hope that we would have tucked away Stenhousemuir so a visit to Ibrox and 40% of what, a 30,000 gate, £240k plus telly. Financial troubles not over but certainly addressed in the short term and the best chance of silverwear in a generation. Am I happy with this season so far? Well if you offered it to me at the end of May last year after the exodus, definitely. If you asked the same question on the eve of the league starting with who we signed and what we had on paper, I'd be OK with 4 points off second but very unhappy about the cups. If posed the same question again today I'd be lamenting our chances to visit a neutral ground for a semi/final and just an overwhelming feeling of frustration - but that's being a dosser isn't it? Motherwell Results vs Top 6 & Cup St Johnstone 3-0 Motherwell Tue 25 Feb Dundee Utd 3-1 Motherwell Fri 21 Feb Motherwell 2-2 Aberdeen Sat 25 Jan Celtic 3-0 Motherwell Sat 18 Jan Motherwell 4-0 St Johnstone Wed 1 Jan Aberdeen 0-1 Motherwell Thu 26 Dec Motherwell 0-5 Celtic Fri 6 Dec Albion Rovers 1-0 Motherwell Sat 30 Nov (Scottish Cup) Motherwell 0-4 Dundee Utd Sat 9 Nov Motherwell 0-2 Aberdeen Wed 30 Oct (League Cup) St Johnstone 2-0 Motherwell Sun 27 Oct Celtic 2-0 Motherwell Sat 5 Oct Dundee Utd 2-2 Motherwell Sun 22 Sep Inverness CT 2-0 Motherwell Sat 17 Aug Motherwell 1-3 Aberdeen Sun 11 Aug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stv Posted February 26, 2014 Report Share Posted February 26, 2014 Hold on a bit here. Its football remember, sometimes the team plays shite you need to go with it .But over the top reactions when we win and when we loose is a forums bread and butter .Need to remember we are still third and what do we expect with most of the team carrying knocks or injuries of course they wont play the way we were playing when the squad was fit .The manager has to do his best with what hes got, mind he has all the injury lists and sees them in training every day.We are Motherwell no Barcelona players may need to play when unfit ......fact of life. Still no excuse for the goalkeeper , hes just a big Jessie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texanwellfan Posted February 26, 2014 Report Share Posted February 26, 2014 doesn't matter if you beat top 6 or bottom 6 team it's how many games you win. The other teams also play the same bottom 6 teams, so yes, we can lament our form against the top 6 teams but our record against the bottom 6 teams is outstanding and obviously better than any of the other top 6 teams bar Celtic. Of course having said that we could be up shit creek without a paddle after the split since we wont get to play any bottom 6 teams As someone else mentioned, March is a big month. 4 home games and 1 away to Hibs. Chance to steady the ship and gather some points in the run up to the split. But certainly we need to up the performance level from the last 2 games. I still think we can finish 2nd or 3rd but that remains to be seen. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoF Posted February 26, 2014 Report Share Posted February 26, 2014 Keith Lasley has been our best midfielder this season but he is getting on and that's showing. Eh? In what way is his age 'showing' if he's our best midfielders having one of his best seasons in claret and amber? When I forget my specs you could easily convince me we've got a 25 year old playing in the middle of the park. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoF Posted February 26, 2014 Report Share Posted February 26, 2014 Our league placing flatters us only because the bottom 6 are so awful. I look at this run of results, Aberdeen away and St Johnstone on Ne'erday stand out, however we've been spanked too often by teams around us and handed out only one of our own. We have scored 8 out of a possible 39 so far this season. I agree the results against the top 6 are worrying but I think it's unfair to belittle the consistency we've had against the bottom 6. With the exception of Aberdeen and Celtic, I don't think there is a huge gap in squad quality between the teams in this league and the fact that St Johnstone, Aberdeen, Inverness and Dundee United have all dropped a lot of points to the bottom 6 is testament to that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lobey_Dosser Posted February 26, 2014 Report Share Posted February 26, 2014 Agreed, Lasley is defying his age with the way he gets about the park. He's continuously improved his own game in recent seasons to compensate for the loss of Jennings and then Law. I'd fear going into a game without him. Poty by some distance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East_Stand_Al Posted February 26, 2014 Report Share Posted February 26, 2014 Eh? In what way is his age 'showing' if he's our best midfielders having one of his best seasons in claret and amber? When I forget my specs you could easily convince me we've got a 25 year old playing in the middle of the park. Las is gonna love you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted February 26, 2014 Report Share Posted February 26, 2014 Eh? In what way is his age 'showing' if he's our best midfielders having one of his best seasons in claret and amber? When I say he's possibly our best midfielder this term you have to take into account the form of his colleagues in making any comparison. Irrespective of Keith's form, they have been mediocre at best. Lionel Ainsworth has blown hot and cold and defending isn't his strong point. In many games Stuart Carswell has failed to impress most of the time and has been anonymous in just too many games. Paul Lawson hasn't featured much. Iain Vigurs has shown some talent but doesn't exactly put himself about. ZFA has been a bit erratic. In short, whilst you may disagree with some of those assessments in detail, I think they aren't far out. Keith has played reasonably well on the ball and has put himself about as best he can - he was never the fastest guy on the pitch. However he has tended to tire during the last quarter of games and in a number of games has been a bit anonymous - three games come immediately to mind without thinking too much (2 games at McDiarmid Park and one at Tannadice). Defensively he has a tendency to disappear when the opposition are on top. That said he wasn't the only player to play badly in a number of games, and he is currently carrying an injury. He is now 34 (35 this year). Not many players I can think of are fitter and faster at 34 than they were at say 28. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goggles & Flippers Posted February 27, 2014 Report Share Posted February 27, 2014 I agree the results against the top 6 are worrying but I think it's unfair to belittle the consistency we've had against the bottom 6. With the exception of Aberdeen and Celtic, I don't think there is a huge gap in squad quality between the teams in this league and the fact that St Johnstone, Aberdeen, Inverness and Dundee United have all dropped a lot of points to the bottom 6 is testament to that. I'd rather have dropped a few more points to the kids, journeymen and newly promoted and got a few more from the teams with something about them. If that was the case there's a better chance we would have had a busier January, been £500k better off and had a chance of silverwear. You are correct, they have dropped a lot, which is testament to their shocking consistency rather than our startling form. Sitting 3rd with 8 points from 39 against top 6 opposition (a lot of those 31 points dropped comprised of us being spanked). However inevitably getting pumped by a top six team results in a few hairdryers and soul searching before we play a bottom six team, well there you have your motivation for our 100% record. Hibs - Before Tel has started to bring in some organisation they were woeful, our away win at the start of the season masked how much weren't behind them at that stage Ross County - The squad of 127 or whatever they've used so far and only now seems to have some stability Killie - Off-field shit no doubt playing on minds, however mostly 2 cold, 1 lukewarm, pretty much based on the performance of Boyd St Mirren - 2 decent players, rest pish and an alchy manager Partick - First home win was against Aberdeen (wtf) last week, it's like us playing an internal bounce game at Dalziel Park in 2012 facing them Hearts - Don't really think I have to list their failings Among those 6 teams of 11 starters and 5 on the bench I think you'd struggle to pick an all-star eleven that would hold its own and compete in the top half. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tweed Posted February 27, 2014 Report Share Posted February 27, 2014 we can lament our form against the top 6 teams but our record against the bottom 6 teams is outstanding and obviously better than any of the other top 6 teams bar Celtic. What do you mean bar Celtic? Including Celtic, because they drew at Hibs! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tweed Posted February 27, 2014 Report Share Posted February 27, 2014 Hibs - Before Tel has started to bring in some organisation they were woeful, our away win at the start of the season masked how much weren't behind them at that stage Ross County - The squad of 127 or whatever they've used so far and only now seems to have some stability Killie - Off-field shit no doubt playing on minds, however mostly 2 cold, 1 lukewarm, pretty much based on the performance of Boyd St Mirren - 2 decent players, rest pish and an alchy manager Partick - First home win was against Aberdeen (wtf) last week, it's like us playing an internal bounce game at Dalziel Park in 2012 facing them Hearts - Don't really think I have to list their failings Among those 6 teams of 11 starters and 5 on the bench I think you'd struggle to pick an all-star eleven that would hold its own and compete in the top half. This may be true but: 1. Hibs have drawn with Celtic, are unbeaten against Dundee Utd and have beaten St Johnstone twice. 2. Ross County have won at Inverness, beaten Aberdeen and cuffed Dundee Utd. 3. Kilmarnock a bit like us, they are where they are because they always seem to beat those below and around them. 4. St Mirren have cuffed Dundee Utd 5 Thistle have gone to Inverness and won, beaten Aberdeen. 6. Hearts for all their faults have beaten Aberdeen twice and gone to Perth and drawn So for all they may be rotten, these teams are all capable of beating top six teams on their day and it is a testament to our professionalism that we haven't dropped a single point to any of them thus far at the end of FEBRUARY. Ok, we may have issues the next couple of weeks due to our injuries but even getting to where we are has been fantastic. I'm very kind of meh about where we are at the moment, the way it has gone I think we could be a few points better off and we should not have lost the two cup games we did but I think to write off our form against the bottom six teams is really unfair. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted February 27, 2014 Report Share Posted February 27, 2014 So in summary, some fans are pissed off because, despite reaching one of our highest points totals for this stage of the season, we didn't win those points against the right teams. That's a new level of moaning even by our low standards. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welldaft Mk1 Posted February 27, 2014 Report Share Posted February 27, 2014 So in summary, some fans are pissed off because, despite reaching one of our highest points totals for this stage of the season, we didn't win those points against the right teams. That's a new level of moaning even by our low standards. Spot on Weeyin The last 2 weeks have been very disappointing, but we have the same or more points total as last season with 4 games less played. Only Motherwell fans could moan at that situation, especially as I along with everyone else on here felt last seasons team were one of our best in recent years.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfc88 Posted February 27, 2014 Report Share Posted February 27, 2014 Do people not understand that it isn't the points total anyone is complaining about. Its the manner of defeat. We have a fantastic record against bottom 6 teams but if you look at the results I can only think of think of 3 that were convincing which was during our winning run. When we lose, on the other hand, it tends to be more than convincing. Is it so wrong to expect better than what has been dished up at times, for example Tuesday/ Friday and most importantly both cups? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texanwellfan Posted February 27, 2014 Report Share Posted February 27, 2014 What do you mean bar Celtic? Including Celtic, because they drew at Hibs! Good point ! I was forgetting that we are actually 100% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted February 27, 2014 Report Share Posted February 27, 2014 Do people not understand that it isn't the points total anyone is complaining about. You are right, people are complaining that we are only getting points from the bottom 6 teams. Apparently those points are inferior and will count less when we add them up at the end of the year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texanwellfan Posted February 27, 2014 Report Share Posted February 27, 2014 At the moment we are are the third best team in the league. Say what you like about other teams play better or whatever but the cold hard fact says, at the moment, we are better than them all bar Aberdeen and Celtic. I think we are all guilty of it from time to time) ok maybe a lot of the time ) but the results and league table are the facts. How many times have you heard "the best team got beat" Sorry! but the best team is the one that scores the most goals. Likewise the best team in the league is the one with the most points. Now are other teams more entertaining? Probably so but are they better? Other than Aberdeen and Celtic the factual answer is No. EDIT: Apologies to the forum for resorting to facts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfc88 Posted February 27, 2014 Report Share Posted February 27, 2014 You are right, people are complaining that we are only getting points from the bottom 6 teams. Apparently those points are inferior and will count less when we add them up at the end of the year. Did you read the rest of my post? I'm agreeing that our points total is good. What bothers me is when we don't pick up points, the manner of it. Top six or bottom six aside (quick look on the website shows), in the league, EVERY game we have lost has been by more than 1 goal. Not to mention 10 man Aberdeen and Albion rovers. Why is it so wrong to question this aspect of our season? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
numpty Posted February 27, 2014 Report Share Posted February 27, 2014 Is it so wrong to expect better than what has been dished up at times, for example Tuesday/ Friday and most importantly both cups? It's certainly not wrong to hope for it, but I don't think you can ever *expect* a high level of consistency from any team with our resources. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.