Goggles & Flippers Posted January 1, 2015 Report Share Posted January 1, 2015 Come the summer we'll face the exact same as we did in 2009. Lots of players out of contract or underperforming in McGhee's 2nd season. Baraclough will have a slight advantage over Gannon, in terms of being in the job 6 months before wholehearted changes, however I suspect a much smaller pot available. He's also has contacts and has extensive knowledge of the lower English leagues. One thing I'm pretty sure of even this early, we will start 2015/16 as one of the fittest teams in the country, I don't doubt Baraclough's work ethic and what he expects from his players. With respect to Kmac's suggestion we've had no long term vision (5-8 years from memory), I wholeheartedly disagree. I doubt many people in Scotland would have predicted Rangers being demoted potentially for 3 years plus before 2011, the loss of Hibs and Hearts from the league, the apathy of Celtic's fans and ours increasing avoiding OF matches due to the bile. Also the lack of securing a top league sponsor. I also think the people making the projections rightly should expect a team performing consistently in the top 6 get past a few cup matches per season. Losing to Albion Rovers and Stjarnan cost us close to 800k in potential revenue from the following fixtures. The comes pretty close to wiping out that operating loss over three years. Regardless, we all accept we are a selling club, for one reason or another our prize assets have not commanded the interest and revenue's they should have. ie. Goodwillie goes to Blackburn for £1m, doesn't do much, Murphy goes to Sheffield Utd for £150k and is holding his own regularly. Randolph has been discussed to death. I don't know how much the club bean counters can be held responsible for this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noah Dosser Posted January 1, 2015 Report Share Posted January 1, 2015 Those out of contract in 2015, according to transfermarkt.co.uk: Lawson Vigurs Sutton Ainsworth Ramsden Kerr Carswell Angol Nielsen McHugh Cummins Law Ojamma OB Stewart 2016: McManus Lasley Hammell Reid Twardzik Leitch Moore Not sure on the youth players. Erwin is out of contract this year as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ya Bezzer! Posted January 1, 2015 Report Share Posted January 1, 2015 Come the summer we'll face the exact same as we did in 2009. Lots of players out of contract or underperforming in McGhee's 2nd season. Baraclough will have a slight advantage over Gannon, in terms of being in the job 6 months before wholehearted changes, however I suspect a much smaller pot available. He's also has contacts and has extensive knowledge of the lower English leagues. Baraclough will be at a massive disadvantage over Gannon because Gannon had a far bigger war chest to spend than any other Motherwell manager post administration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goggles & Flippers Posted January 2, 2015 Report Share Posted January 2, 2015 The only advantage (and I thought I was pretty clear) was the 6 months to assess the players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yassin Posted January 2, 2015 Report Share Posted January 2, 2015 Come the summer we'll face the exact same as we did in 2009. Lots of players out of contract or underperforming in McGhee's 2nd season. Baraclough will have a slight advantage over Gannon, in terms of being in the job 6 months before wholehearted changes, however I suspect a much smaller pot available. He's also has contacts and has extensive knowledge of the lower English leagues. One thing I'm pretty sure of even this early, we will start 2015/16 as one of the fittest teams in the country, I don't doubt Baraclough's work ethic and what he expects from his players. With respect to Kmac's suggestion we've had no long term vision (5-8 years from memory), I wholeheartedly disagree. I doubt many people in Scotland would have predicted Rangers being demoted potentially for 3 years plus before 2011, the loss of Hibs and Hearts from the league, the apathy of Celtic's fans and ours increasing avoiding OF matches due to the bile. Also the lack of securing a top league sponsor. I also think the people making the projections rightly should expect a team performing consistently in the top 6 get past a few cup matches per season. Losing to Albion Rovers and Stjarnan cost us close to 800k in potential revenue from the following fixtures. The comes pretty close to wiping out that operating loss over three years. Regardless, we all accept we are a selling club, for one reason or another our prize assets have not commanded the interest and revenue's they should have. ie. Goodwillie goes to Blackburn for £1m, doesn't do much, Murphy goes to Sheffield Utd for £150k and is holding his own regularly. Randolph has been discussed to death. I don't know how much the club bean counters can be held responsible for this. Goodwillie went for £2.8m.£2.8 fucking million. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The African Posted January 2, 2015 Report Share Posted January 2, 2015 Those out of contract in 2015, according to transfermarkt.co.uk: Lawson Vigurs Sutton Ainsworth Ramsden Kerr Carswell Angol Nielsen McHugh Cummins Law Ojamma OB Stewart 2016: McManus Lasley Hammell Reid Twardzik Leitch Moore Not sure on the youth players. So how many of those out of contract this summer are worth keeping?Lawson? Unlucky with injuries but has not proved himself, so no.Vigurs? Undoubtedly talented, undoubtedly inconsistent. Probably a luxury we cannot afford, so no.Sutton? An honest and hard working pro who has a good goal scoring record at SPL level, yes.Ainsworth? Similar to Vigurs in terms of what he can offer and when he does produce it, so probably no.Ramsden? Injury prone and getting on, so no.Kerr? Not good enough, so no.Carswell? Shown some promise and young enough to improve, so probably yes.Angol? Like a more defensive version of Vigurs or Ainsworth. Not taken his chance here so no.Nielsen? Hasn't worked out for him here, so no.McHugh? Had chances and been found lacking, so no.Cummins? Not had the chances others have had, but if he were good enough you would have thought that he would have shown it on loan, so no.Law? Not good enough, so no.Ojaama? If we can keep him then great, but reckon others with deeper pockets will move for him.O'Brien? Would not be bothered to see him head back to Derby now. Not awful, but not great either.Stewart? Not had a chance here. If the coach thinks he is good enough to be a back up keeper behind Dan, or whoever, then he deserves a deal if he wants one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy_P Posted January 2, 2015 Report Share Posted January 2, 2015 Goodwillie went for £2.8m.£2.8 fucking million. Along similar lines was wistfully discussing their reported demands for no less than £3m for Cifti yesterday. If he had been at been Tannadice, had been named Michaelo Higdona or some such I'm almost convinced Dundee Utd would have got seven figures for Higdon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yassin Posted January 2, 2015 Report Share Posted January 2, 2015 Along similar lines was wistfully discussing their reported demands for no less than £3m for Cifti yesterday. If he had been at been Tannadice, had been named Michaelo Higdona or some such I'm almost convinced Dundee Utd would have got seven figures for Higdon. Darren Randolph as well is another one that I'm baffled saw hardly any interest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The African Posted January 2, 2015 Report Share Posted January 2, 2015 We seem to be off the radar when it comes to our players attracting attention. Randolph got into the RoI squad and still no one was sniffing round, apart from the usual Celtic interest when he was capped and when we were about to play them. It may also have been because he was a goalkeeper and they seem to be less likely to move for cash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmmfc Posted January 2, 2015 Report Share Posted January 2, 2015 Any of the current squad (excluding the youth players like Thomas) can leave as far as I am concerned. There is not 1 player who I'd be sad to see go. The only positive to come out of yesterday is that Baraclough saw them for what they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmac Posted January 2, 2015 Report Share Posted January 2, 2015 After suffering that drivel for 80 mins yesterday, I stand by my earlier points that is imperative we begin rebuilding now. All this let's aim for 10th pish is quite frankly insuliting. We are absolutely rank rotten. From the lists posted above, the only names I'd be remotely interested in keeping are Carswell, ,Ojamma and Sutton. I said earlier that we are in desperate need of 4/5 players to make sure we stay in the league and I fully stand by that. If the board are not willing to open the wage budget to allow this to happen, I will genuinely have no sympathy for the more dramatic enforced changes we will see in the championship. Individually... Twardzik - Too wee. Backup keeper if I ever saw one. Keep. Reid - people like to think he tries. He has nothing about him at all. Goodbye. Kerr - never a professional football player. Goodbye. McManus - cart horse and has gone back the way since he joined. Goodbye Hammell - injuries, injuries and age, bad combination. We must seek a starting LB. keep. Lasley - he tries hard but again we need to look for a replacement. Keep Law - utter shite. Goodbye. Ainsworth - too lightweight. Goodbye. Ojamaa - trying too hard atm to compensate for the dross around him. Quality still. Keep. Sutton - will score at spl level however needs support. Keep Ramsden - too injury prone. Goodbye. Lawson - see ramsden. Goodbye Vigurs - imposter. Goodbye. Carswell - backup player again. Keep. Erwin - someone said he isn't a footballer as his decision making is awful. Tending to agree. Keep. Obrien - back to Derby. Goodbye. Angol - not a football player. Goodbye. Mchugh. See angol. goodbye Cummins - see the two above. Goodbye.Neilsen - hasn't worked. Goodbye. Stewart, Thomas, Ferguson, Cadden etc. we have to keep. Will be judged over next season and a half. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StipeIsGod Posted January 2, 2015 Report Share Posted January 2, 2015 Well, this thread makes it easy to find folk mainly interested in hurling abuse at certain players. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted January 2, 2015 Report Share Posted January 2, 2015 Paying good money for Lasley, Hammell and McManus next season doesn't inspire confidence. Lasley looks fit now so he needs to make sure he is fit for day one and not day 120 in 15/16. McManus has bad knees and looks as if he thinks playing for us is beneath him. We should try and encourage him to leave. Hammell appears to be knackered with injuries which doesn't help but he is where he is because he has played for us so much so we have to support him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milo Posted January 2, 2015 Report Share Posted January 2, 2015 McManus has bad knees and looks as if he thinks playing for us is beneath him. That hits the nail on the head for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burn_Broomfield Posted January 2, 2015 Report Share Posted January 2, 2015 Have to say I've backed McManus, but he has been horrific this season. Steelboy's opinion looks more and more on the button with each passing week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted January 2, 2015 Report Share Posted January 2, 2015 Well, this entire forum makes it easy to find folk mainly interested in hurling abuse at certain players. For someone who can't attend many games at all, I've no idea how bad we actually were yesterday. I mean, I know we were thrashed 5-0. I know people were vehement in their criticism during and after the game yesterday. However, the posts aren't any different to any other match day thread, transfer thread, any other thread from the last few seasons. Seriously. Getting thrashed 5-0, I'd imagine the players deserve every ounce of condemnation and more. However, it all just merges into 'same old, same old' as far as I'm concerned. It's what I read every week on here and, while it still disappoints me, I've simply become used to it. I genuinely wonder if the players have that attitude too? Do they think "No matter how well we play or what results we can squeeze out, we'll still just get abuse from certain sections of our support?" Maybe not. I don't know. I'm just speculating. Back on topic, there is no way that we have the budget to release players early. We can't throw money away like that. From what I've read on here, every single players on our books is shite except for Henrik (and even then...). However, I'm looking to see over the next six months who can raise their game under Barraclough. I repeat "over the next six months" and not the last three games. I'm not saying he'll turn them all into star players but he might get one or two of them to buy into his philosophies and, in time, we'll have a good player who otherwise would have been punted by many on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted January 2, 2015 Report Share Posted January 2, 2015 Who's going to turn into a good player? We have a squad full of guys who have various combinations of being too old or injury prone or suffering from chronic injuries or being completely unathletic or having displayed a consistently poor attitude throughout their career. These aren't issues that a manager can solve and I haven't even mentioned footballing ability yet. Also the reason you have been reading that we are pish for ages is that we have been pish for ages, we have barely played well in 18 months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milo Posted January 2, 2015 Report Share Posted January 2, 2015 You make a good point Stu but when the same players are making the same mistakes and showing the same lack of interest, desire and ability week in week out over 23/24 games then you do tend to repeat yourself as there are only so many expletives and adjectives in the English language to describe the dross you are continually witnessing. What I will say is this collection of players have continually found new ways to be appalling. You think you've hit rock bottom, they'll take it to another level! Excepting and shrugging off 4-0 and 5-0 defeats with no reaction just seems to be the latest. Assuming Hammell and Ramsden are also now crocked the injury list could pretty much fill a starting 11 (the legacy of John Porteous leaving), what are abedeen going to do to us on Sunday !?!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ya Bezzer! Posted January 2, 2015 Report Share Posted January 2, 2015 Ojamaa - trying too hard atm to compensate for the dross around him. Quality still. Keep. Not exactly how I'd describe him yesterday or in the last couple of games. Ojamaa reminds me a lot of Scott McDonald, obviously a talented player but someone who comes across as huffy and selfish. There was a great example yesterday when he had a simple ball to play in Ainsworth into the box and took the ball himself and tried to go run round the Accies defence himself. He's obviously got a petted lip from being asked to play out left as he hasn't bothered his backside in the last two matches. When Ainsworth shows you up for effort then you have a problem. Ojamaa is obviously a talented player but he has an attitude problem which is obviously why he has failed at a higher level. There you don't get to do what you like and have to play in a rigid system and work hard at aspects of the game that aren't glamourous. Well it looks like that's how things are going to be under Baraclough as well so he needs to adapt or risk falling by the way side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ONeils40yarder Posted January 2, 2015 Report Share Posted January 2, 2015 Get them all to fuck...ive never been embarrassed to be a Motherwell fan, but I am today. An utter, utter disgrace of a result. Rock fucking bottom 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Wispy Flossy Posted January 2, 2015 Report Share Posted January 2, 2015 Captain marvel and his sidekick mcAnus are the two biggest culprits and yet we need to be subjected to them for another season and a half 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asdf1234 Posted January 2, 2015 Report Share Posted January 2, 2015 Would be interested to see what the difference would be if we played an entire youth team, can guarantee there would be a better attitude on and off the pitch if that's what baracough seems to think is the problem.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Made Posted January 2, 2015 Report Share Posted January 2, 2015 Get them all to fuck...ive never been embarrassed to be a Motherwell fan, but I am today. An utter, utter disgrace of a result. Rock fucking bottom Sunday could be lower......... had been looking forward to the New Year games but yesterday has pure scunnered me. I suppose we should look at the wins and draw we got in the last 3 games and realise that is the level we are at just now. That in it's self is worrying and soul destroying. To then be hammered twice in the league by our near neighbours under two different managers, shows where the problem is. I know the Aberdeen fans will be laughing at us now and will be hoping their table topping side can put more past us. In truth most games this season we could have had 5 or more goals scored against us so we should be thankful it's not been the case. However these players at the club just now need to realise that the fault is with them, from Iceland through to where we are now. Folk can blame KB for not getting them fit during the close season but any professional footballer who cares about their health and longevity in the game, should be making sure that they are doing extra outside of training to get that fitness up. Have we hit rock bottom yet? I don't think so although I do believe there's not much farther to fall. I am praying that Ross County and St Mirren don't get a run together before we hit it or we will go down. Too many people say teams are too good to go down but it happens almost every year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacol Posted January 2, 2015 Report Share Posted January 2, 2015 Not exactly how I'd describe him yesterday or in the last couple of games. Ojamaa reminds me a lot of Scott McDonald, obviously a talented player but someone who comes across as huffy and selfish. There was a great example yesterday when he had a simple ball to play in Ainsworth into the box and took the ball himself and tried to go run round the Accies defence himself. He's obviously got a petted lip from being asked to play out left as he hasn't bothered his backside in the last two matches. When Ainsworth shows you up for effort then you have a problem. Ojamaa is obviously a talented player but he has an attitude problem which is obviously why he has failed at a higher level. There you don't get to do what you like and have to play in a rigid system and work hard at aspects of the game that aren't glamourous. Well it looks like that's how things are going to be under Baraclough as well so he needs to adapt or risk falling by the way side. Have to agree on yesterday's performance he gave no cover on the left side. Constantly gave possession away by trying to dribble around the opposition and when presented with a good chance after good work by Thomas he blasted it wide. I wouldn't be to disappointed to see him go at the end of this month if it free's up wages for investment elsewhere in the team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted January 2, 2015 Report Share Posted January 2, 2015 Have to agree on yesterday's performance he gave no cover on the left side. We've had no left side cover for weeks now. Even Stevie Hammell plays well inside. Opponents frequently have the freedom of our left flank. In effect Ojamaa's being asked to do the work of 3 players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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