Juan Kerse Posted August 3, 2014 Report Share Posted August 3, 2014 I remember when Darren Barr was the next big thing at Falkirk. Made captain at 21 or something. He also has a Scotland cap so can't be that bad. (Might have been a 'Berti' right enough). Still everyone moaning like Fuck that we haven't signed a centre half. McCall's brought in a centre half in his prime years who could easily do a job next to big Mick. More worryingly for me is no Anier replacement. And I don't see that one happening at all :'( Sutton up front on his own with Boab coming off the bench Aw year gives me an almighty dose of the fear! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yassin Posted August 3, 2014 Report Share Posted August 3, 2014 Adam Cummins should be nowhere near the first team, I'd rather have kept Murray on for this season than have to ever rely on Cummins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lobey_Dosser Posted August 3, 2014 Report Share Posted August 3, 2014 We never quite got to the bottom of the Euan Murray situation. He did play in one of the prep games for Europe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inthebasement Posted August 3, 2014 Report Share Posted August 3, 2014 If you look at the squad, I think we could be doing with playing the system the dutch did in the World cup. We are full of defensive minded players, so play wing backs and 3 at the back. They played 3 attacking players in Snijder, Robben and Van Persie.... So, that would be Vigurs, Ainsworth and Sutton.... Why do things make sense in your head but when you write it down or comes out your mouth, its just utter nonsense. Although I am sure there is a point in their somewhere Totally agree with this, we have had a great potential to go 352 last summer's transfer extravaganza. Holland and several other teams used it generally be great effect, most notably costa rica, Mexico and Chile. A few on here noted this potential last summer, mainly because we have no pace in wide areas, no striker which can play alone up front, and Lawson is too pondering to work in a 442. Ried, Angol, Kerr and maybe Carswell all have wing back potential, and Vigurs perfect to play in the hole. Faddy could also have covered this. We also have aging but decent defenders and there should really be back three potential in McManus, Hammy and Rmsden, albeit the reality of implementing a change like that at this at SPFL level is not something I know anything about. I recall we tried a three in a friendly last year, and I thought we may have been in a three during the first half of the bizarre gubbing we gave Partick at Fir Hill, though it was not reported in these terms. Ramsden-McM-Ham Reid-Angol (wing backs) Las-Cars (sitting) Vigurs (hole) Sutton-Ains You can tinker with personnel obviously, the trick being to settle the back three and find your most effective wing backs. The attacking potential should take care of itself as there should be options galore for the midfielders to find. It can also be played lopsided (as Holland do when Blind is played sitting) to allow one wingbacks more freedom eg try Ainsworth. It's a total myth that British plays can only handle a back four, Scotland have a long tradition of three at the back and Smith used to use it on occasion to great effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiderpig Posted August 3, 2014 Report Share Posted August 3, 2014 FFS people we are Motherwell not Real Madrid we are skint so the Darren Barrs of this world are who we can afford.If he signs then get behind him and the rest of the team, judge them at the end of the season..its where you finish that matters not where you start. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yassin Posted August 3, 2014 Report Share Posted August 3, 2014 Really, we aren't Real Madrid? Thank god you cleared that up, I was under the illusion we were going to be signing Sergio Ramos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ya Bezzer! Posted August 3, 2014 Report Share Posted August 3, 2014 Totally agree with this, we have had a great potential to go 352 I think you generally need better defenders to play 3 at that back than 4. If we can't defend with 4 I'd be wary about defending with 3. Back when we played three at the back under McLean we had quality players like Boyd, McCart and Krivokapic that could play between two centre halves. We don't have anyone as good as any of those players now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiderpig Posted August 3, 2014 Report Share Posted August 3, 2014 Really, we aren't Real Madrid? Thank god you cleared that up, I was under the illusion we were going to be signing Sergio Ramos. Point and missed completely springs to mind..but dont think our style of play would suit Ramos he would upset the team dynamic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faddythedaddy Posted August 3, 2014 Report Share Posted August 3, 2014 Really, we aren't Real Madrid? Thank god you cleared that up, I was under the illusion we were going to be signing Sergio Ramos. I was under the impression Real Madrid wouldn't need to sign Sergio Ramos as he already plays with them? Thank god you cleared that up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted August 3, 2014 Report Share Posted August 3, 2014 It's worrying that Ramsden is again on the injury list. Maybe it's a very minor injury but we cannot go into the season with Ramsden as number 1 I said this months ago and was lambasted for it. He is not a centre back and is injury prone to the extent that we can't rely on him. Its unfortunate but that's the reality of the situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well Well Posted August 3, 2014 Report Share Posted August 3, 2014 a few grumpy folk on here today.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siebsbarmyarmy Posted August 3, 2014 Report Share Posted August 3, 2014 I said this months ago and was lambasted for it. He is not a centre back and is injury prone to the extent that we can't rely on him. Its unfortunate but that's the reality of the situation. Another one who picks up injuries regular is Fraser Kerr. He missed a chunk last year and for a young lad picks up a load of injuries aswell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malky79 Posted August 3, 2014 Report Share Posted August 3, 2014 I've always thought that Lawson was brought in with the idea of moving to a much more possession based game. The games we went out in Europe the year before (Pana & Levante), despite all our attacking ability, we were shown up as being unable to hold the ball. The first game of the season against Hibs we kept the ball forever, with Hibs barely getting a touch for ten/fifteen minutes at a time. Ultimately though, we looked nice on the ball, but absolutely toothless going forward. We changed and went more direct with Anier and Sutton, and never really went back to it. In that kind of system, I think Lawson would've thrived, but in the more direct system, he struggles, so will always be a square peg in a round hole, there. Bit of an aside but my recollection of those games was that we kept possession really quite well but lacked the cutting edge to score and generally suffered on the counter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goggles & Flippers Posted August 3, 2014 Report Share Posted August 3, 2014 I suppose to implement a 3 centre half, 2 wing backs or sweeper system is McCall would have to be an advocate and one thing we've found during his tenure is he prefers to tinker with known quantities opposed to major changes. So I doubt it'll happen. I suspect a couple of signings in a months time and therefore wonder why they aren't here today unless he's holding off to pick them up cheaper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pingu Posted August 4, 2014 Report Share Posted August 4, 2014 Is it just me who thinks Cummins hasn't been nearly has bad to merit the shit he gets on here? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelvinBragg Posted August 4, 2014 Report Share Posted August 4, 2014 Is it just me who thinks Cummins hasn't been nearly has bad to merit the shit he gets on here? No, it's not just you. He's had some bad games, sure. He's also had some good games. All the talk of bringing in a new centre back, it strikes me that it's going to stifle any chance Kerr or Cummins have of making any real progress. These guys are often slated for not developing but there comes a point when the only thing that will really help is first team games. Some people want the best of both worlds. They want us to develop and sell our young players but also want new signings that will only limit their opportunities... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted August 4, 2014 Report Share Posted August 4, 2014 Just having a quick look at the actual first team squad on the official site makes me think that unless some last-minute signings are coming our way those who want to see youth given a chance will be happy enough this season. Me? I'd like to think that the lack of signings of late has something to do with the management team deeming a few of our younger guys worthy of a chance. After all, we were quite quick off the mark in getting our business done early in pre-season. There's no real reason why that would grind to a halt if business was still to be done. I hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one m in motherwell Posted August 4, 2014 Report Share Posted August 4, 2014 That's a fair point. The likes of Erwin, McHugh and Leitch have been knocking on the door for wee while now and deserve a chance, with McHugh being the exception to that (I just don't think he's got what it takes at this level). Thomas and a few of the younger guys have popped up on occasion but I wouldn't be entirely comfortable with relying on them with such a thin squad - unless we were accepting the fact that we have a couple of lean years in order to blood these young guys into hopefully more sellable assets in a few years time. However, given the state of the club financially I'm not sure that's an option. We have strength (ish) in depth in most positions other than up front, but we do still need a wee bit of experience at the back (and up front too) to bring the younger guys on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ya Bezzer! Posted August 4, 2014 Report Share Posted August 4, 2014 No, it's not just you. He's had some bad games, sure. He's also had some good games. All the talk of bringing in a new centre back, it strikes me that it's going to stifle any chance Kerr or Cummins have of making any real progress. These guys are often slated for not developing but there comes a point when the only thing that will really help is first team games. Some people want the best of both worlds. They want us to develop and sell our young players but also want new signings that will only limit their opportunities... Adam Cummins has had first team opportunities that most young players at Motherwell would bite your hand off for. He has 25 starting appearances and a further 8 substitute appearances. Guys like Mark Reynolds and Shaun Hutchinson came in and took their chance and showed they were good enough. Cummins hasn't. Maybe there is another reason but I suspect it's because he's just not very good. It speaks volumes that he went to Dundee on loan and had a couple of substitute appearances. Kyle Benedictus, recognised by most Dundee fans as absolutely rank, played ahead of him as did Declan Gallagher, who was released in the summer. You know what that tells you? He's not even Scottish Championship material. It's harsh but the guy shouldn't be anywhere near our level of football. I'm all for giving young players a chance but he's had his chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelvinBragg Posted August 4, 2014 Report Share Posted August 4, 2014 If Adam Cummins had never shown any ability, would he have got to 25 appearances? Has he had a few bad games? Name me someone in our squad that hasn't? I'm not suggesting that he'll definitely kick on but I don't think he's done enough wrong to be labelled a no-hoper. Comparing him to the best two centre backs we've brought through since Chris McCart probably sets a very high standard for him. Reason why Jamie Murphy didn't get the credit he deserved at Fir Park from some people. Too busy comparing him to McFadden... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onthefringes Posted August 4, 2014 Report Share Posted August 4, 2014 That's a fair point. The likes of Erwin, McHugh and Leitch have been knocking on the door for wee while now and deserve a chance, with McHugh being the exception to that (I just don't think he's got what it takes at this level). Thomas and a few of the younger guys have popped up on occasion but I wouldn't be entirely comfortable with relying on them with such a thin squad - unless we were accepting the fact that we have a couple of lean years in order to blood these young guys into hopefully more sellable assets in a few years time. However, given the state of the club financially I'm not sure that's an option. We have strength (ish) in depth in most positions other than up front, but we do still need a wee bit of experience at the back (and up front too) to bring the younger guys on. So have we such a thin squad or strength (ish) in depth? I'd suggest the former. As for experience at the back? Aye? What we need is some pace given at least two are about ready for pasture! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ya Bezzer! Posted August 4, 2014 Report Share Posted August 4, 2014 If Adam Cummins had never shown any ability, would he have got to 25 appearances? Has he had a few bad games? Name me someone in our squad that hasn't? I'm not suggesting that he'll definitely kick on but I don't think he's done enough wrong to be labelled a no-hoper. Comparing him to the best two centre backs we've brought through since Chris McCart probably sets a very high standard for him. Reason why Jamie Murphy didn't get the credit he deserved at Fir Park from some people. Too busy comparing him to McFadden... If you like I could compare him to Willie Kinniburgh, Greg Denholm and Innes Ritchie. He's not even in the top half of that lot and might well be bottom. At least all those guys stayed in the game which remains to be seen when Cummins is released next summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelvinBragg Posted August 4, 2014 Report Share Posted August 4, 2014 If you like I could compare him to Willie Kinniburgh, Greg Denholm and Innes Ritchie. He's not even in the top half of that lot and might well be bottom. At least all those guys stayed in the game which remains to be seen when Cummins is released next summer. If you think he's no better (or worse) than those three, we'll need to agree to disagree... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAM Posted August 4, 2014 Report Share Posted August 4, 2014 For me Cummins did well when he came in during crisis times in his first season. He then had a chance last season and didn't take it. Don't have the stats but i'd love to compare to Hutchy who burst through and then vanished for some time (injury, etc) and was on the verge of a loan to Ayr before finally getting in and getting a real run. Cummins for me, hasn't had enough of an opportunity to pass full judgement. Not saying he will make it but some of the comments on here are very harsh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one m in motherwell Posted August 4, 2014 Report Share Posted August 4, 2014 So have we such a thin squad or strength (ish) in depth? I'd suggest the former. As for experience at the back? Aye? What we need is some pace given at least two are about ready for pasture! What I'd call our first team squad is incredibly thin. There are a number of players in the U20s who will quite happily sit on the bench as cover for a position or two, but I'd hardly consider them as part of the first team. So, on that reading, we've got depth in numbers terms but nowhere near what we need in terms of actual first teamers. As for the defence, we definitely do need experience. I'm not seeing too many folk currently at the club who could slot in to replace Hutch (and I'm deliberately discounting Ramsden in that. I think we're kidding ourselves if we think he'll stay injury free this season). Cummins and Kerr just don't cut it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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