Yassin Posted August 4, 2014 Report Share Posted August 4, 2014 I really don't see any point in persevering with Cummins. I'm all for introducing youth to the first team but I'm yet to see anything that suggests Cummins can make it in the at Championship level never mind Premiership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy_P Posted August 4, 2014 Report Share Posted August 4, 2014 I was sure we'd had this Cummins debate not long ago as I remember posting on it; and having checked back we have, on this very thread around the end of May. Since we've only had a couple of fixtures since then, neither of which he's been involved in, can only really repeat what I said back then in that he seems to me to be a player who really needs a run of games before getting into his stride. Playing games in isolation is generally going to see outcomes such as the horror show he had when we played Celtic a couple of seasons ago where I think he gave away a penalty and was sent off. But when he was involved fairly regularly he certainly wasn't as bad as is being suggested by some. I think he's been a little unlucky. The arrival of McManus blocked his route to any continuing development and when the Dundee move looked ideal within a week or two the manager who had signed him was gone and the new incumbant didn't fancy him. And all the while back at Fir Park we're struggling for bodies, have players out of position in defence and having to turn to Craig Reid. When he would have been looking to build on the 12'13 season, last season was a complete waste for him and has set him right back. It's a bit of a make or break year for him but barring injury I do think he's going to struggle to get the opportunity to prove himself again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dezz Posted August 4, 2014 Report Share Posted August 4, 2014 Higgy signs for Sheffield United. Good move for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted August 4, 2014 Report Share Posted August 4, 2014 That's a fair point. The likes of Erwin, McHugh and Leitch have been knocking on the door for wee while now and deserve a chance, with McHugh being the exception to that (I just don't think he's got what it takes at this level). Thomas and a few of the younger guys have popped up on occasion but I wouldn't be entirely comfortable with relying on them with such a thin squad - unless we were accepting the fact that we have a couple of lean years in order to blood these young guys into hopefully more sellable assets in a few years time. However, given the state of the club financially I'm not sure that's an option. We have strength (ish) in depth in most positions other than up front, but we do still need a wee bit of experience at the back (and up front too) to bring the younger guys on. The thing for me is that whilst it's always good to have a number of experienced heads in the squad, we simply can't go on doing what we've been doing of late. I feel we've done very well in the transfer market over the past number of years, managing to find the likes of Randolph, Higdon, Law, Ojamaa, Sutton, McManus & Anier. But how many players are we moving on for decent fees? Hardly any really. I'm not sure about anyone else, but I'd happily sacrifice a few years of finishing 4th-6th if it meant we could cut down on the one year deals and loans that we bring in and try to bring some of our youth players through. A club on our budget should really have a few experienced heads surrounded by homegrown talent on decent length contracts, who will either serve the club well for a number of years or be moved on at a profit if they attract worthwhile interest elsewhere. All of these young guys who have been knocking about in the youth set-up for a while now really need a chance. And if they aren't good enough, then the lads coming up behind them need drafted in. We need to change the perception of the club to somewhere that a talented young player will be given his shot, not somewhere where a half-decent journeyman from down south can resurrect his career on a year long deal before fucking off again. We need to try and establish a decent, homegrown for the most part nucleus of a side that will include some talent brought in from elsewhere, enabling us to build from there. I've enjoyed the success of recent years, but at the end of every season there's a feeling of dread when one year contracts expire and we always seem to go into a new season somewhat disjointed I think. Maybe a few years to step back, re-assess and build from ground zero is what's needed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoshi-1991 Posted August 4, 2014 Report Share Posted August 4, 2014 Good move for the big guy, should be on a decent wage. He may not have been here as long as others but he's up there as one of my favourites to ever wear the shirt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frazzie Posted August 4, 2014 Report Share Posted August 4, 2014 What's this experienced defender chat? We must have the oldest back four in the league. We need a sweeper-style player with a bit of pace to sit in between the cart-horses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malky79 Posted August 4, 2014 Report Share Posted August 4, 2014 I really don't see any point in persevering with Cummins. I'm all for introducing youth to the first team but I'm yet to see anything that suggests Cummins can make it in the at Championship level never mind Premiership. In Cummins defence he was hampered by injuries last season. Already it seems he has had a knock that fortunately he seems to have recovered from given he played on saturday but he is for me one of those players on the cusp. Saw enough solid performances not to want to write him off, but saw a few torrid ones that absolutely raises questions. If he is fit again I'd be happy to see him given a chance if needed but for his own sake he is at an age he needs to be playing games so if McCall doesn't fancy him probably needs to look to move on if he can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rambunctious Posted August 4, 2014 Report Share Posted August 4, 2014 I actually quite liked the look of Cummins. He got a decent run of games a few years back and I thought he was quite unlucky to lose his place in the team. While I'd obviously like us to strengthen our defence, I'd be happy enough to have him and Kerr as cover for CB. I was really hoping we'd be further forward with respect to bringing in another forward but so be it. I'm hoping Law/McHugh/Erwin will take this as a big opportunity to impress. As a side note: I think folk have been ridiculously over-critical of McCall, the players and the club in general in the wake of the two Stjarnan results. In reality very little has changed since that Sunday afternoon up in Aberdeen last May. It's hard to believe that the same posters are posting about the same manager, players and club. I think with an addition or maybe two, we can go on to have a similar league campaign and hopefully more succesful cup runs. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEWELL Posted August 4, 2014 Report Share Posted August 4, 2014 Cummins and Kerr are both 1st division players end of. Just like Kinneburgh and Forbes they aint SPL class. Neither is Bob McHugh and im not convinced Reid is either or the keeper Twardzick. <_> 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted August 4, 2014 Report Share Posted August 4, 2014 Cummins and Kerr are both 1st division players end of. Nice of you to clear that up for us. Someone give McCall a ring tomorrow and let him know, eh? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goggles & Flippers Posted August 4, 2014 Report Share Posted August 4, 2014 Will all the talk of Robertson moving to Hull in the space of a year can anyone answer the following question. Has anyone from junior football been picked up by a SPFL club and turned out decent or is the natural progression for them into the lower leagues? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one m in motherwell Posted August 4, 2014 Report Share Posted August 4, 2014 Cummins and Kerr are both 1st division players end of. Just like Kinneburgh and Forbes they aint SPL class. Neither is Bob McHugh and im not convinced Reid is either or the keeper Twardzick. <_> And here's me thinking Reid did pretty well last season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StipeIsGod Posted August 4, 2014 Report Share Posted August 4, 2014 Nice of you to clear that up for us. Someone give McCall a ring tomorrow and let him know, eh? Why bother? He's utterly infallible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted August 4, 2014 Report Share Posted August 4, 2014 A club on our budget should really have a few experienced heads surrounded by homegrown talent on decent length contracts, who will either serve the club well for a number of years or be moved on at a profit if they attract worthwhile interest elsewhere. All of these young guys who have been knocking about in the youth set-up for a while now really need a chance. And if they aren't good enough, then the lads coming up behind them need drafted in. We need to change the perception of the club to somewhere that a talented young player will be given his shot, not somewhere where a half-decent journeyman from down south can resurrect his career on a year long deal before fucking off again. We need to try and establish a decent, homegrown for the most part nucleus of a side that will include some talent brought in from elsewhere, enabling us to build from there. Overall, I agree with you but where we have been falling down isn't in not blooding enough youngsters but in not unearthing the right ones and not holding onto them. Thats where a youth system really earns its corn. Apart from Faddy who was the last really good youngster we produced? Phil O'Donnell? The first stage is to invest in a good scouting set up and then put measures in place (whatever they may be) to hold onto the emerging starlets in the age group 14-17. As an aside, Some posters were calling for Ross Stewart to be blooded last season to address our goalkeeping problem. Stuart McCall, who presumably knew the lad's strengths and weaknesses, was rounded on for not giving him his chance. Whats happened to the lad now? He's been released. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burn_Broomfield Posted August 4, 2014 Report Share Posted August 4, 2014 Cummins and Kerr are both 1st division players end of. That's not fair on Kerr. Unless you mean the Lanarkshire Sunday league division 1? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noah Dosser Posted August 5, 2014 Report Share Posted August 5, 2014 As an aside, Some posters were calling for Ross Stewart to be blooded last season to address our goalkeeping problem. Stuart McCall, who presumably knew the lad's strengths and weaknesses, was rounded on for not giving him his chance. Whats happened to the lad now? He's been released. No sure about this, I was told Stewart had signed a new deal a week or so ago. Re Kerr, think folk are being a bit harsh on him; he is a centre back by trade and until he plays a few times there judgement should maybe be held back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted August 5, 2014 Report Share Posted August 5, 2014 No sure about this, I was told Stewart had signed a new deal a week or so ago. Re Kerr, think folk are being a bit harsh on him; he is a centre back by trade and until he plays a few times there judgement should maybe be held back. Ross Stewart? Like Euan Murray nothing from the club in the way of announcements. I'd assumed he'd moved on because reference to him has been removed from the Official site. I agree about Fraser Kerr. He's being asked to fill in for various positions to which he isn't really suited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted August 5, 2014 Report Share Posted August 5, 2014 Overall, I agree with you but where we have been falling down isn't in not blooding enough youngsters but in not unearthing the right ones and not holding onto them. Thats where a youth system really earns its corn. Apart from Faddy who was the last really good youngster we produced? Phil O'Donnell? The first stage is to invest in a good scouting set up and then put measures in place (whatever they may be) to hold onto the emerging starlets in the age group 14-17. As an aside, Some posters were calling for Ross Stewart to be blooded last season to address our goalkeeping problem. Stuart McCall, who presumably knew the lad's strengths and weaknesses, was rounded on for not giving him his chance. Whats happened to the lad now? He's been released. That's what I'm talking about though. The cycle we're in has to be broken at some point, where we use some of the money of we have to try and improve the scouting and youth set-up, even if it is to the detriment of new players coming in to the first team for a bit. I also think we'll be more likely to attract younger players if they see us as a club who give youth a chance. Dundee United have created an environment where the best youth players want to play. When a young lad is set to leave his local youth side for a pro club he's always going to have his head turned by United these days because of their track record of playing youngsters. We have to try and create the same kind of environment here. God knows it shouldn't be too difficult, as we're hardly a spending club as it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noah Dosser Posted August 5, 2014 Report Share Posted August 5, 2014 'Ross Stewart? Like Euan Murray nothing from the club in the way of announcements. I'd assumed he'd moved on because reference to him has been removed from the Official site.' Think the problem is lack of communication from the club clarifying various situations at present, ie injuries, signings (not holding my breath on that one), and general chat re the season ahead. Difficult time with the legendary media man taking up a new role, but a wee bit of confirmed info from the club can go along way to keeping the fans on-side, if not always happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onthefringes Posted August 5, 2014 Report Share Posted August 5, 2014 Ross Stewart? Like Euan Murray nothing from the club in the way of announcements. I'd assumed he'd moved on because reference to him has been removed from the Official site. I agree about Fraser Kerr. He's being asked to fill in for various positions to which he isn't really suited. Aye, wearing our club colours on a football pitch all at the one time! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East Stand Well Boy Posted August 5, 2014 Report Share Posted August 5, 2014 Ross Stewart? Like Euan Murray nothing from the club in the way of announcements. I'd assumed he'd moved on because reference to him has been removed from the Official site. I agree about Fraser Kerr. He's being asked to fill in for various positions to which he isn't really suited. Ross Stewart playing for the u20s tonight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dossertillidie Posted August 5, 2014 Report Share Posted August 5, 2014 Mark obrian centre half from derby on loan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dossertillidie Posted August 5, 2014 Report Share Posted August 5, 2014 Obrien sorry wee typo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welldaft Mk1 Posted August 5, 2014 Report Share Posted August 5, 2014 Where are you seeing this. Was this not the chap that was due to come but got an injury ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dossertillidie Posted August 5, 2014 Report Share Posted August 5, 2014 Yea was out for a year,think he is just back from injury Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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