Why So Few?

[ropy]

1398094922[/url]' post='409474']

Thanks for all the comments. They all make sense, but they don't speak much to just how long we can survive with numbers like 5k. It says a lot about the manager that he's been able to keep the team as high when he can barely put a full team together on some weeks and still get results.

 

About the game being on tv ( I actually watched it in Canada), how much money does that bring in? and how many supporters would that have covered?

 

It brings in nothing. Prize money, which includes money from TV is awarded based on league placing, not on TV appearances

[Andy_P]

Thanks for all the comments. They all make sense, but they don't speak much to just how long we can survive with numbers like 5k. It says a lot about the manager that he's been able to keep the team as high when he can barely put a full team together on some weeks and still get results.

 

The club will argue here that with the pricing schemes in place and initiatives in place currently that they are putting the building blocks in place to secure the support of the future. I'm thinking here of the season ticket deals that get up to two kids for free with an adult season ticket in parts of the ground. Or the free tickets that are given out to a couple of boys clubs or youth groups for home games.

 

For me that's a little bit like your youth development policy where you put in the investment - or in this case, take the financial hit - and it's only going to be a few years down the line you'll see if that investment translates into those kids taking up season tickets of their own.

 

I still have reservations that once a kid hits the ceiling of their juvenile ticket circumstances might mean we lose them and all the hard work in making this affordable and getting them into the habit will have been for nothing. Take a laddie who has been paying £70/£80 for a juvi ticket, leaves school at 16 and starts work but is only on minimum wage. £70 to something like £300 for a season book is a helluva jump. Of course I have absolutely no figures to base those concerns on so it may not be an issue at all.

 

I also believe we should be courting visiting supports more. Some good stuff does and has gone on. Like making tickets available at Fir Park for local Celtic fans for example. Probably got us a few more sales. The donations to the Hearts Federation on their first visit this season was probably recouped and additional monies made by virtue of that gesture.

 

But let's try more. We have an excellent social media set up that we could use to our benefit. We could do something like you get with Ticketmaster where you get an email sent to you automatically to alert you when one of your favourite artists is doing something. We could build up a database of email addresses for each opposition team and tweak the preview emails Motherwell fans get to target them. There will loads in that email relevant to them already. Add in prices so they have the info. to hand and don't have to look for prices. Let them know what's of relevance to them in the programme so they might buy it etc. If they have two successive away games lets do what we can to convince as many of them that Fir Park is the one they should go to. Put in travel details. "Paisley to Airbles in just XX minutes on the train" shite like that. Time consuming perhaps initially but once templates are built up it, should be easier to maintain and manage over time.

[kirkletsfly]

I generally think that the top 6 split is a good idea as it generates plenty of 6 pointer type matches. However the fact that you only get a week or two's notice on the 5 fixtures mean that many folk with family and other commitments can't shuffle things around. I'm a season ticket holder but of the post split fixtures I can only make the Caley game.

 

 

[Welldaft Mk1]

The club will argue here that with the pricing schemes in place and initiatives in place currently that they are putting the building blocks in place to secure the support of the future. I'm thinking here of the season ticket deals that get up to two kids for free with an adult season ticket in parts of the ground. Or the free tickets that are given out to a couple of boys clubs or youth groups for home games.

 

For me that's a little bit like your youth development policy where you put in the investment - or in this case, take the financial hit - and it's only going to be a few years down the line you'll see if that investment translates into those kids taking up season tickets of their own.

 

I still have reservations that once a kid hits the ceiling of their juvenile ticket circumstances might mean we lose them and all the hard work in making this affordable and getting them into the habit will have been for nothing. Take a laddie who has been paying £70/£80 for a juvi ticket, leaves school at 16 and starts work but is only on minimum wage. £70 to something like £300 for a season book is a helluva jump. Of course I have absolutely no figures to base those concerns on so it may not be an issue at all.

 

I also believe we should be courting visiting supports more. Some good stuff does and has gone on. Like making tickets available at Fir Park for local Celtic fans for example. Probably got us a few more sales. The donations to the Hearts Federation on their first visit this season was probably recouped and additional monies made by virtue of that gesture.

 

But let's try more. We have an excellent social media set up that we could use to our benefit. We could do something like you get with Ticketmaster where you get an email sent to you automatically to alert you when one of your favourite artists is doing something. We could build up a database of email addresses for each opposition team and tweak the preview emails Motherwell fans get to target them. There will loads in that email relevant to them already. Add in prices so they have the info. to hand and don't have to look for prices. Let them know what's of relevance to them in the programme so they might buy it etc. If they have two successive away games lets do what we can to convince as many of them that Fir Park is the one they should go to. Put in travel details. "Paisley to Airbles in just XX minutes on the train" shite like that. Time consuming perhaps initially but once templates are built up it, should be easier to maintain and manage over time.

 

It has got a lot better our direct marketing, but then that would not be difficult from wherewe were. It was not that long ago you could not pay for things using a credit card!!

I bought tickets for a Champions League game at Arsenal a couple of years back. Every now and then I get an email asking if I want tickets. Does not need to be like Amazon....of course some of this software and skills comes at a cost...

[Martin]

I reckon all the "don't want to endure the bile" is usually code for "don't want to watch us get pumped"

[Yabba's Turd]

Our average crowd for non old firm games is up.

 

Someone can do the sums but I'd bet we're better supported now than in those halcyon days

[Yoshi-1991]

My girl friend would have been at the football if it wasnt for the fact it was Celtic. She hates the vile atmosphere and im sure shes not the only one. I cant understand the club putting the price up for these games either.

im sick of saying it but ticket prices are a massive reason for poor attendance. All in all the list goes, location, price, tv scheduling, crap advertisement/ football simply not being on peoples minds are the top reasons people stay away.

Under 16 should get in free and it should be 10-12 quid for an adult. the club do the odd cheap game every so often but thats not going to make a change.

[Frazzie]

The prices goes up because the club legally have to charge fans in the Cooper the same as fans in the South Stand and the Old Firm will bring a big crowd regardless of price. My preference would be that it was £28 a skull and you got a free ticket for the next home league match with every programme.

[steelman1991]

The prices goes up because the club legally have to charge fans in the Cooper the same as fans in the South Stand and the Old Firm will bring a big crowd regardless of price. My preference would be that it was £28 a skull and you got a free ticket for the next home league match with every programme.

 

So that's another £x.xx onto the price - why not just give the ticket away to those in the Cooper, without the added expense of purchasing a programme?

[StAndrew7]

I reckon all the "don't want to endure the bile" is usually code for "don't want to watch us get pumped"

 

Not for me (although I'd agree I'm probably in the minority); I've enjoyed Celtic games less and less for years now due to the bile they spout. I was at the game before Christmas and a few others in the last 2 years but made a conscious effort not to go on Saturday because I don't enjoy the atmosphere.

 

As a PS; my parents live (and I used to until last year) a street away from FP, so it's not as if it's an issue for me to get there. However, having seen the atmosphere created by and the attitude of Celtic fans when parking cars in the street (blocking driveways, deliberately charging by pedestrians etc) it's not something I want to be around.

[MJC_MKI]

I don't think anyone could be blamed for not attending games against Celtic given the way their support behave when they come to town. The game in December was easily the worst atmosphere I've ever experienced at a home match, before during and after the game, inside and outside the ground. There they were in large numbers, shouting at and intimidating passers bye, young fans and shoving their political baggage in everyone's faces. I'd guess that a fair number of folk would refuse to take their kids/families to these games, especially if they were on the receiving end of their bile last december. Celtic's away support is by far and away the scummiest bunch of trailer trash mutants that Scotland has to offer and when folk see them getting away with murder then it's no wonder that they give games against them the body swerve.

[bomjac]

Biggest culprit for the drop in attendances is live on TV. When you can take £25 and go spend the afternoon in the boozer watching the game in comfort, surrounded by your friends then it is an easy choice for the casual supporter. Sure I used to love the OF games, and never missed a game unless I was working or away at the time, but past performances against them and the fact that I no longer have a season ticket means that recently I have often decided to just watch the game in the pub.

 

Prior to the OF games at Fir Park being televised the crowds generally were in the region of 11-13k against them. The old figures for TV which were £60k per televised match now make a mockery the fact that we are losing ticket sales of maybe 3000 @ £25 a pop.

[Spiderpig]

I think our support was only down slightly as for any old firm game live on TV or not its only ST holders that tend to go,the casual punters tend not to bother.

The main reason for the low attendance was the thousands of Celtic fans who did not bother to go, which i can understand, league won, nothing at stake, game live on Sky etc.

[Frazzie]

So that's another £x.xx onto the price - why not just give the ticket away to those in the Cooper, without the added expense of purchasing a programme?

 

 

Because I don't think you're allowed to.

[steelman1991]

Saus who, dont quite grasp the rationale - why has there to be an additional purchase, before handing over a voucher/ticket at the turnstyle?

[Brazilian]

Saus who?

 

you have to offer same deal to fans in equivalent seating, league regulations

 

why the fuck would we give our own fans in one stand a free ticket for another game for turning up?

 

the suggestion of bolting a free or reduced next game ticket onto the programme is perceived as a loophole to balance the increased premium game pricing effect on a home fan.

 

point is premium pricing across the board is a farce, making people pay extra to come and watch any team in the Cooper with their kids or mates is one big joke.

[steelman1991]

Yeah I get that, no argument from me, and I didn't suggest we should offer free ticket - frazzie did. Also agree on the premium pricing element.

 

Surely though the 'same deal' only refers to the payment for entry, not anything additional that the club 'may' offer as an incentive and that rule was brought in - I believe - to stop clubs charging more for away fans, than home fans in equivalent seating areas. That's not what was being proposed and why I couldn't/can't understand the need for the purchase of a programme to qualify for any incentive offered to the fans. The pricing remains the same for both sets of fans £25.00 (or whatever).

 

Wasn't there a situation recently at St Mirren, where ticket pricing differed between home end and away end when we visited (juvenile reduction if I remember) so not everyone abiding by the accord.

 

 

 

[Ya Bezzer!]

I still have reservations that once a kid hits the ceiling of their juvenile ticket circumstances might mean we lose them and all the hard work in making this affordable and getting them into the habit will have been for nothing. Take a laddie who has been paying £70/£80 for a juvi ticket, leaves school at 16 and starts work but is only on minimum wage. £70 to something like £300 for a season book is a helluva jump. Of course I have absolutely no figures to base those concerns on so it may not be an issue at all.

 

 

I think holding on to kids is a big problem and you've mentioned one of the reasons.

 

Another is that, generally, populations are much more mobile now than they were in the past. It used to be if you were born in Motherwell you lived in Motherwell all your days.

 

Now, for a whole host of reasons, people move around a lot more, especially young people due to employment and education. A lot of the kids going to Fir Park now probably have futures away from the area.

 

However it is good to see a lot more kids at the games. At one time, not so long ago, the support base was becoming virtually middle aged.

[Frazzie]

The reason I think it's not allowed- and I admit I could well be wrong- is something I read when Charles Green was at Rangers when he was trying to stop the SFA getting a big chunk of the cash from Scottish Cuo games at Ibrox.

 

The reason I made the suggestion was that it would get an extra £4 per head out of the Old Firm fans (extra £20k profit even allowing for concessions) and saving a non-ST holding 'Well fans a couple of quid at the same time.

[maxywell]

I actually enjoy Celtic/Rangers (more Celtic recently) home games to any other fixture and was in the pod as a patg fan on Saturday.

 

 

 

The main reasons the atts in the home end drop by a few hundred are it's on tv, more expensive and we usually get pumped.It's always happened at most SPL teams, nothing new.