Goggles & Flippers Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 Justify "poorly managed" if you don't mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lobey_Dosser Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 Two days notice of a closed door game, a week before the domestic season commences, doesn't strike me as good organisation. Friendlies are routinely announced early pre-season at the latest. Without looking around, I imagine all competing clubs will have had a schedule in place for some time. We've went two weekends without a first team friendly. Lack of friendlies has arguably cost us our place in Europe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superward Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 We played 5 first team friendlies before Stjarnan (not inc the u20s v albion). Just because you weren't there does not mean they didnt happen. That seems a decent amount to me given when we started training? We planned still to be in Europe at this stage so I can understand why a friendly now has been hard to organise at short notice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goggles & Flippers Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 Do you accept that if we were playing competitively tonight then there wouldn't be a need for a game? Do you think the club (along with 99% of fans) expected to progress through the last round and therefore didn't see the need for an intermediate game this weekend? Don't you agree the plug was probably pulled by the ultra cautious police due to their commitment to the games? Don't you take any notice of the fact the club has listed the fact that most Scottish clubs are playing away this weekend? Do you accept we started our first competitive game 3/4 weeks before most others, therefore starting pre-season earlier than many of our potential opposition and a strong possibility they wouldn't be in a position to field a team against us? Would you rather we didn't play because fans can't get access to watch? Rather than poor management, I think its quite impressive the club managed to do this at such short notice with a team playing in one of the top leagues in Europe, sorry it doesn't get you out of getting hauled round Silverburn on Saturday around 3pm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superward Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 Do you accept that if we were playing competitively tonight then there wouldn't be a need for a game? Do you think the club (along with 99% of fans) expected to progress through the last round and therefore didn't see the need for an intermediate game this weekend? Don't you agree the plug was probably pulled by the ultra cautious police due to their commitment to the games? Don't you take any notice of the fact the club has listed the fact that most Scottish clubs are playing away this weekend? Do you accept we started our first competitive game 3/4 weeks before most others, therefore starting pre-season earlier than many of our potential opposition and a strong possibility they wouldn't be in a position to field a team against us? Would you rather we didn't play because fans can't get access to watch? Rather than poor management, I think its quite impressive the club managed to do this at such short notice with a team playing in one of the top leagues in Europe, sorry it doesn't get you out of getting hauled round Silverburn on Saturday around 3pm. A sensible voice amongst the posts of morons 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lobey_Dosser Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 In my opinion, had we been playing in Poland tonight, there should still be a game in place for Sunday, primarily for the young ones. A game which would have been arranged some time ago - when do Motherwell take European progression for granted? The commonwealth games has been on the horizon for a long time. As I've said previously, games should have been arranged some time ago for the north of England. I don't buy into the number of closed door games being genuine first team friendlies. Clear difference of opinion with regards preparation. Simon Ramsden has said today that it takes 5/10 games to get into your rhythm. We'll see how sharp we look when we open the season with 3 games in 8 days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goggles & Flippers Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 No difference of opinion at all, as I said 99% of us thought they'd be 2 competitive games between now and St. Mirren. As for nothing guaranteed, I agree but looking at UEFA coefficients and our previous results against Icelandic opposition and 20 minutes into the first game, most of us thought it would be a formality. I'll direct you to Alan Burrows post on the facebook page where he explains the reasoning and the fact the club are obligated to field the strongest team possible and commit many weeks in advance. Now you're advocating that if we hypothetically progressed last week, getting back from Poland early tomorrow and jumping on a bus for anything from 8 hours return on Sunday. Ever felt you're flogging a dead horse? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
100percentsteel Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 Not really bothered about missing a game where McCall will set out to defend deep, play the slowest man in Scottish football up front himself with no support and have no intentions of bringing on a 2nd striker. This combined with Stephen McManus backing off for 40 yards at every opportunity without any thoughts of making a challenge. Plenty of chancs to witness this time and time again in the league season ahead!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superward Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 In my opinion, had we been playing in Poland tonight, there should still be a game in place for Sunday, primarily for the young ones. A game which would have been arranged some time ago - when do Motherwell take European progression for granted? The commonwealth games has been on the horizon for a long time. As I've said previously, games should have been arranged some time ago for the north of England. I don't buy into the number of closed door games being genuine first team friendlies. Clear difference of opinion with regards preparation. Simon Ramsden has said today that it takes 5/10 games to get into your rhythm. We'll see how sharp we look when we open the season with 3 games in 8 days. The 'young ones' will be playing on Tuesday when their season starts against Accies so that wouldnt have worked? This season you can also play 5 overage players in the newly named 'development league' so that will be another opportunity for game time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kristoff Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 Not really bothered about missing a game where McCall will set out to defend deep, play the slowest man in Scottish football up front himself with no support and have no intentions of bringing on a 2nd striker. This combined with Stephen McManus backing off for 40 yards at every opportunity without any thoughts of making a challenge. Plenty of chancs to witness this time and time again in the league season ahead!!! Glad you are looking forward to the season ahead - Good to see positive input. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East_Stand_Al Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 would the club be interested in volunteer ball boys for saturday ........maybe a few thousand of them ? just a thought I've got a Hi Viz Jacket and an attitude I could stand at the end section and glower at the Bois. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamH Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 Yes, seriously. This is about where we are now as a team. If our first team had been playing 2 times a week for the past 2 weeks that would have had an adverse affect as the base fitness just isnt there. Given our apparent stage of fitness at the first Stjarnan game (i.e. gubbed at half time) if our first team had then played on the weekend (which is the people who should be playing to get the benefit?), then played the 2nd leg, then the weekend again, then the 1st leg of Lech Poznan we would be knackered. We also would have cut the amount of time for actual training way down due to having to schedule in rest and recovery. You would have 2 games a week, 2 days of active recovery, leaving only 2 at a stretch 3 days of actual training for drills, tactics and fitness. Absolutely would have an adverse affect. How often do you hear managers early in the season moaning about having 2 games a week as it is just too early? Whilst it's important to play games for sharpness the balance needs to be right between training and match time. We obviously thought we would get through, and like in previous seasons, use the games in Europa to get sharp before hitting a 'big' team and then the start of the season. That was risky, for me, and what we should have been doing is coming back earlier to get core fitness up to sctratch (ala McGhee pre season) which would then leave us in a better position to play more games now and more competitively at this time. But, yeah, of course we could play a weakened team, at 75% effort and make loads of subs - because that would be very beneficial. I don't agree with much of that. I might be old school but I think you're better off combining fitness with sharpness and playing a game. Tactics can be discussed and practised on rest days as they are not particularly physical activities. I think you're underestimating professional athletes as I know plenty of amateurs that could easily cope with with 2 games a week while working on fitness. Have you ever heard footballers say that they prefer games to training? Also, have you ever heard footballers saying that the best way to get match fitness is by playing games? I think they know what they're talking about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brazilian Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 Do you accept that if we were playing competitively tonight then there wouldn't be a need for a game? No, a decent wee trip to Brechin, Clyde or the likes, would not have done the squad any harm, when we have 5 or 6 kids who are lined up to sit on the bench all season Do you think the club (along with 99% of fans) expected to progress through the last round and therefore didn't see the need for an intermediate game this weekend? are you saying the club are operating in an amateurish manner, ignoring historical results and taking success as granted? you should have been in Reykiavik, on Wednesday no where near 99% of fans or officials thought we were guaranteed to be going through Don't you agree the plug was probably pulled by the ultra cautious police due to their commitment to the games? as a last minute arrangement/request, Police Scotland may have had an input, Irrelevant when it should have been organised weeks/months ago Don't you take any notice of the fact the club has listed the fact that most Scottish clubs are playing away this weekend? very good, are buses not an option anymore? Do you accept we started our first competitive game 3/4 weeks before most others, therefore starting pre-season earlier than many of our potential opposition and a strong possibility they wouldn't be in a position to field a team against us? No, we started after our main two rivals and the champions and Utter bollocks about pre-season, when you look around at when clubs all over Scotland started their prep', go look back, plenty commented at the time, how lower league clubs and top six clubs alike were all back, many before ours. Would you rather we didn't play because fans can't get access to watch? not really fussed on a personal level, but since the very essence of the club is to attract and retain support for it to exist as a business, it seems rather daft, that only one match was organised, to showcase this years team at low cost to punters Rather than poor management, I think its quite impressive the club managed to do this at such short notice with a team playing in one of the top leagues in Europe, sorry it doesn't get you out of getting hauled round Silverburn on Saturday around 3pm. Yip, I'll bet one or two people had to put hell off a lot of effort into getting this sorted, that worries me the most, when we have very little resource, all the hours firefighting instead of boxing clever weeks ago, will no doubt have added stress to a small team, and led to other tasks being sidelined putting income at risk. I watched my team destroy the opposition in both games for around 30 or so minutes recently, I then watched the opposition slowly but assuredly enjoy more and more possession and gain encouragement as our boys retreated, so much that they were well on top in both games beyond the 90 minutes: fitness?, lack of match time? tactics? whatever it was, we lost through lack of preparation. I can accept that, what I dont understand is the need to mask the situation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 I agree we may have suffered from lack of preparation, but don't think friendlies at Berwick or whatever are the answer. Our propensity to sit back and invite pressure is a long standing flaw that needs to be addressed in a competitive environment rather than a day trip to the coast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brazilian Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 On that issue I agree WeeYin, Prep work may? Have been enought to let us reach 3 goals in each match or hold out just a minute or two longer. But for this thread, the pre-season just hasn't been structured enough Even the claim of five games is fanciful, over how many days was that? Around ten my guess, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superward Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 I don't agree with much of that. I might be old school but I think you're better off combining fitness with sharpness and playing a game. Tactics can be discussed and practised on rest days as they are not particularly physical activities. I think you're underestimating professional athletes as I know plenty of amateurs that could easily cope with with 2 games a week while working on fitness. Have you ever heard footballers say that they prefer games to training? Also, have you ever heard footballers saying that the best way to get match fitness is by playing games? I think they know what they're talking about. I have no doubt they could cope with it but would it be the best idea to get the correct level of fitness, maintain it and not be susceptible to injuries or tiring earlier in the season? In my opinion which is baser on some experience in this field, no. If, and I pointed to it previously, we were back earlier and had a good solid base of fitness to work from then we probably could have played 2 games a week during thr euro ties but from the levels of fitness seen against Fulham and then Stjarnan it would most likely have a detrimental effect in the short and mid term to do that. Also, players will always want to play games - its easier than grafting on a training pitch doing fitness drills. Games are needed but its all about getting the right balance and overloading on games at the expense of training aint the way to do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamH Posted August 1, 2014 Report Share Posted August 1, 2014 I have no doubt they could cope with it but would it be the best idea to get the correct level of fitness, maintain it and not be susceptible to injuries or tiring earlier in the season? In my opinion which is baser on some experience in this field, no. If, and I pointed to it previously, we were back earlier and had a good solid base of fitness to work from then we probably could have played 2 games a week during thr euro ties but from the levels of fitness seen against Fulham and then Stjarnan it would most likely have a detrimental effect in the short and mid term to do that. Also, players will always want to play games - its easier than grafting on a training pitch doing fitness drills. Games are needed but its all about getting the right balance and overloading on games at the expense of training aint the way to do it. My opinion is also based on some experience in this field - 20+ years playing and still one of the fittest in any team I play in :-) I agree that we should have been back earlier to build base fitness but disagree that a friendly between the Europa games would not have benefitted the team. I don't get the point about being more knackered if we played a friendly. IMO, for a professional athlete to be tired after 30 mins against a part-time team is a disgrace at any time never mind 2 games in a row. How could playing a friendly in between make that worse? The 'training' obviously didn't work did it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted August 1, 2014 Report Share Posted August 1, 2014 OK so we had 5 pre season games, but its not just the number of games that count in the number of full 90 minutes that players have racked up. By my reckoning only 4 played a full 90 minutes in the Fulham game. How many of our lads racked up a full 90 minutes in each game. Apart maybe from the first game when its fine to chop and change players, surely we should expect our starting line up to have played a full 90 minutes in about 3/4 games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superward Posted August 1, 2014 Report Share Posted August 1, 2014 My opinion is also based on some experience in this field - 20+ years playing and still one of the fittest in any team I play in :-) I agree that we should have been back earlier to build base fitness but disagree that a friendly between the Europa games would not have benefitted the team. I don't get the point about being more knackered if we played a friendly. IMO, for a professional athlete to be tired after 30 mins against a part-time team is a disgrace at any time never mind 2 games in a row. How could playing a friendly in between make that worse? The 'training' obviously didn't work did it? Yeah, absolutely correct - which is my major bug bear rather than lack of friendlies actually. I guess in summary what I have been saying is - if we had put the proper and intensive fitness work in earlier we could quite easily have committed to pre arranged friendlies between the euro games we assumed we were getting (i.e. 2 rounds worth at least) because we would be fit enough to cope with all the games and it would be beneficial. I agree that would have been the best plan. But, because we didnt have that base fitness level (evidenced in the Fulham and 1st leg), and that was maybe the plan to use the 4 competitive games in europe to get it, it would have been foolhardy to chuck in extra friendlies as well and could well have been detrimental. End of the day, it's all opinions and the likes of Kenny Black and Stuart McCall will have different opinions on how to get teams fit compared to, say Derek McInnes and Tommy Wright. Just like you and I. Either way, I dont think we have got it quite right as we seemed to come back a couple of weeks late (for me) on the gamble we were going to progress through europe and get match fit along the way rather than be match fit for the 1st leg. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well 4 Europe Posted August 2, 2014 Report Share Posted August 2, 2014 Motherwell team to play @RBetisOficial : Nielsen, Cummins, Ferguson, Carswell, Trialist, Neill, Ainsworth, McHugh, Sutton, Law, Lasley Motherwell subs: Twardzik, Vigurs, Leitch, Cadden, Erwin, Thomas Given it's our last game before the big kick off I thought McCall would start with his preferred 11 for next Saturday in mind. Seems like he's gone for a mix of first team players/fringe and youth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welldaft Mk1 Posted August 2, 2014 Report Share Posted August 2, 2014 [/size] Given it's our last game before the big kick off I thought McCall would start with his preferred 11 for next Saturday in mind. Seems like he's gone for a mix of first team players/fringe and youth. Big Q is - who is the trialist? Anyone in the KNOW ??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelmaninOZ Posted August 2, 2014 Report Share Posted August 2, 2014 Big Q is - who is the trialist? Anyone in the KNOW ??? would it be the guy from Notts County? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superward Posted August 2, 2014 Report Share Posted August 2, 2014 Going by the other players it would likely be a defender Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siebsbarmyarmy Posted August 2, 2014 Report Share Posted August 2, 2014 Darren Barr maybe?? Erwin, Thomas and Leitch on the bench...... Our three potential best young players!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Del_Superwell Posted August 2, 2014 Report Share Posted August 2, 2014 I also notice, theres no Hammell, Reid, Angol or Kerr in the squad today either! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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