superward Posted September 1, 2014 Report Share Posted September 1, 2014 If all of the above is true then our once heralded great chief exec left the place in a hell of a mess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fat_tony Posted September 1, 2014 Report Share Posted September 1, 2014 The issue is that during 6/7 years of relative success, we have failed to provide a platform to sustain the future of the club. This leads to apathy. In terms of the league, we can do any better than recent years but have relatively nothing to show for it. Interesting to see what happens with the WS over the next couple of months. Reading tweets about soft loans to fund fan ownership? How are the club supposed to have provided a platform to sustain the future though? We've been unlucky in terms of European draws in that we've drawn a combination of hard to reach (Albania, Russia, Iceland), unglamorous and/or quality sides (Pana, Levante, Kuban), meaning that we don't get the benefit of a glamour tie, and more than often end up having to pay well over the odds in travelling costs. Combine that with the fact that whenever we do put a good team together they've been picked apart at the end of the season and we have to start again. There's a law of diminishing returns in terms of what we can afford to bring in - the amount of money being ploughed in to the game down south means we can afford a poorer quality of player year after year, and this is only likely to continue. Teams like Utd and Aberdeen can afford to secure players on longer-term contracts as they have the financial backing to be able to soak up the outlay in the hopes of getting a large transfer fee where as we simply can't gamble on handing out long term contracts because we don't have the income. I, like many, think that the only way to provide sustainability is through the youth system, but again, this is difficult when we are surrounded by bigger clubs with more pull, and have to balance bringing on youngsters with the more immediate need to perform as well as possible on the park. Tough one indeed. A shiny penny to anyone who can come up with a genuine solution. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lobey_Dosser Posted September 1, 2014 Report Share Posted September 1, 2014 How are the club supposed to have provided a platform to sustain the future though? We've been unlucky in terms of European draws in that we've drawn a combination of hard to reach (Albania, Russia, Iceland), unglamorous and/or quality sides (Pana, Levante, Kuban), meaning that we don't get the benefit of a glamour tie, and more than often end up having to pay well over the odds in travelling costs. Combine that with the fact that whenever we do put a good team together they've been picked apart at the end of the season and we have to start again. There's a law of diminishing returns in terms of what we can afford to bring in - the amount of money being ploughed in to the game down south means we can afford a poorer quality of player year after year, and this is only likely to continue. Teams like Utd and Aberdeen can afford to secure players on longer-term contracts as they have the financial backing to be able to soak up the outlay in the hopes of getting a large transfer fee where as we simply can't gamble on handing out long term contracts because we don't have the income. I, like many, think that the only way to provide sustainability is through the youth system, but again, this is difficult when we are surrounded by bigger clubs with more pull, and have to balance bringing on youngsters with the more immediate need to perform as well as possible on the park. Tough one indeed. A shiny penny to anyone who can come up with a genuine solution. I think we should have done better with player recruitment, turnaround and youth investment with income generation in mind. While you can't make a club buy one of your players, I remain baffled that we couldn't get any money for Randolph, Hutchinson et al while the likes of Falkirk and Livingston attract very good fees. The structure of our budget hasn't being right either. While our attractive bonus scheme has contributed to our unprecedented consistency in the park, the players have benefited more than the club from 2nd/3rd place finishes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmacd1 Posted September 1, 2014 Report Share Posted September 1, 2014 There's clearly numerous things going on which haven't helped us.1. Letting too many players contracts run out and receiving no fee. 2. Poor cup performances 3. Poor European performances.4. I sat for the first time at the Inverness game at their 110 travelling fans thinking we need rangers back next year. Realise folk will have their knickers in a twist at that, however 8000 fans twice a season paying versus 110. Doesn't take a high IQ to see money lost. That's not even mentioning Hibs and Hearts travelling fans. 5. All above means we have no money to put into squad meaning folk don't want season tickets as product becomes poorer. 6. PATG prices are too high. A day for me and my son costs over £30 nearly £40 when you consider drinks pies etc to see guys unable to pass from a to b at times. This point is prevalent at every spl team unfortunately. It doesn't endear casual fans to come along. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well Up For It! Posted September 1, 2014 Report Share Posted September 1, 2014 I have to agree that it has always concerned me how "easy" we appear to be at dealing with when a team wants one of our players. When you look at the long list of talent we have lost over the past 10-15 years and the fees we got compared to your Dundee Utds, Aberdeen, Hibs, etc it is scary reading. Even Hamilton Accies, Falkirk, etc (all smaller clubs) seem to get much better deals. One that sticks in my mind is Jamie Murphy. We sold him for circa £200k and at the same time Dundee Utd were getting £3m for Goodwillie. Goodwillie couldn't get a game for Scotlands Under 21s because of Murphy, yet our board deemed he was worth 12 times less than Goodwillie?! The difference? Utd saw they were onto something, gave him a ridiculous 3year deal knowing that they were selling him within 6 months. We let Murphy's contract run down to his last 6months. Essentially, clubs know we are skint and offer below par amounts knowing we will accept it for fear of losing the player for nothing and essentially for me it boils down to misguided direction from the top. As a club, we are very good at media relations and have a very good profile within Scottish football - but we lack in the killer instinct of business. I believe this was true of Leanne Dempster too an extent, and with her leaving we have taken a further step back. As a side note, I can't believe I'm the first to mention this, but I also think we are now seeing the knock on effect of Gordon Young leaving the club. From what I've been led to believe, he was very big on discipline and fitness and probably supported McCall/Black in this area - which are maybe their weaknesses. Ultimately, we have punched well above our weight the past 6/7years and it's been a great period to be a 'Well fan and I for one have enjoyed the ride! This slump was always on the cards, and while I'm not jumping on the band-wagon of the doom and gloom merchants on here, I do think we need to get a concrete business plan in place soon, as well as getting all our departments moving in a positive direction or things could get worse over the next few years... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnstone Posted September 1, 2014 Report Share Posted September 1, 2014 We need a money man back at the club. Its the only way we will survive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well Well Posted September 1, 2014 Report Share Posted September 1, 2014 We need a money man back at the club. Its the only way we will survive. agree with this..for me fan ownership will never allow us to progress in any way. Tin hat on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted September 1, 2014 Report Share Posted September 1, 2014 agree with this..for me fan ownership will never allow us to progress in any way. Tin hat on. fans putting their money in has all ready had a positive impact by funding the losses that the current board have run up. people that think some multi millionaire is going to roll up and start underwriting us are living in cloud cuckoo land. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goggles & Flippers Posted September 1, 2014 Report Share Posted September 1, 2014 With our recent league form a lot on here have criticised the general local population for failing to recognise and attend. A lot of the fault has to lie with the club not capitalising. We are committed to put a product on the park at FP 19ish times a season, that doesn't alter, it's a fixed cost. The WellEvate scheme has tried to increase things but its impact won't be felt for a few years yet. Sometimes I just think they'd rather go out and get one advertising board or programme ad for £2k opposed to signing up half a dozen season ticket holders. Lapsed, former customers are among the easiest you will ever get. An extra 500 through the gates is £150k per year approx. That would allow the manager £3k per week to spend on players. It was only a few years back we had that coming to FP. When we went to the Cup Final in 2011, 18,000 approx attended, 18-20 (from memory) buses left Fir Park, not one had a season ticket form or list of the added benefits. It's just a chronic and repetitive list of missed opportunity. I sincerely hope this shortcoming is identified going forward as the dire impact on the club financially in the past year has only been offset by a 91st minute goal. 2nd Place SPFL 2013/14 +250k SPFL not represented in the CL 2014/15 -£100k Loss of Hibs/Hearts, gain of Dundee/Accies -£75k Lack of League sponsor -£100k Not progressing past Stjarnan -£300k Inter Milan? -£500k Of course there are quite a few guesstimates plus if's and but's there but overall it does not make happy reading. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underboyleheating Posted September 1, 2014 Report Share Posted September 1, 2014 for me fan ownership will never allow us to progress in any way. In principle I agree with fan ownership, however, we don't really have the numbers required to make it work (there was only around 3,400 Well fans at the game on Saturday) and I will be stunned if we reach the amount needed in the stipulated time. I reckon we would require a minimum of 10-12,000 coming through the turnstiles at every home game with around three quarters of them pledging regular financial support to the club (This is never going to happen). Unfortunately the other way is not likely either, as locating a wealthy backer with Motherwell's interests at heart is highly unlikely. Basically we are financially fucked in a league that has no sponsor, with a regular attendance that is shrinking as I type. The only option we have is to go with youth, as financially this is the best and only way forward for a club of our size. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted September 1, 2014 Report Share Posted September 1, 2014 fan ownership will be difficult but until a better option appears it is the only way to go. if the current board cut the society adrift in november they will have to outline their plans for the mid to long term. we have heard about directors funding this and that but no precise details of the people involved, the amounts or the form of this funding. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiderpig Posted September 1, 2014 Report Share Posted September 1, 2014 We need a money man back at the club. Its the only way we will survive. This for me as well, i have said it right from the start we dont have the fan base and enough people willing to commit financially every year to make fan ownership a reallity, everyone who wants to join the WS has done it already, local businesses are struggling so there is no money there. We need another John Boyle type of backer to secure the future, as the money wont come from the WS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onthefringes Posted September 1, 2014 Report Share Posted September 1, 2014 1409584631[/url]' post='420515']One that sticks in my mind is Jamie Murphy. We sold him for circa £200k and at the same time Dundee Utd were getting £3m for Goodwillie. Goodwillie couldn't get a game for Scotlands Under 21s because of Murphy, yet our board deemed he was worth 12 times less than Goodwillie?! The difference? Utd saw they were onto something, gave him a ridiculous 3year deal knowing that they were selling him within 6 months. We let Murphy's contract run down to his last 6months. Not wanting to piss on your parade, would be interested to hear how it appeared on the club accounts, information relayed from a member of the Blades board of directors... It's even worse, we got no where near that. Not even half! Some valid points made of late on this thread, decent debate - hope it keeps up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yabba's Turd Posted September 1, 2014 Report Share Posted September 1, 2014 If steelboy avoids matchday topics for a while he might get into positive rep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well Up For It! Posted September 1, 2014 Report Share Posted September 1, 2014 Not wanting to piss on your parade, would be interested to hear how it appeared on the club accounts, information relayed from a member of the Blades board of directors... It's even worse, we got no where near that. Not even half! Think you may be right. Was just going off memory of the chat at the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EightSixteen Posted September 1, 2014 Report Share Posted September 1, 2014 How would we feel about John Boyle coming back in if the WS doesn't pan out? He knows that he'll never get a decent price for the club, his honest intentions for the WS don't look like they'll pan out and still, he isn't beyond putting money into the club or funding wages. How would we feel if he comes back in December? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goggles & Flippers Posted September 2, 2014 Report Share Posted September 2, 2014 Way off the mark 8-16, its precisely because he wants shot of the liability that fan ownership was advanced as a proposition. He dabbled, tried to use his business acumen, got his fingers burned and sees it as a thing of the past now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted September 2, 2014 Report Share Posted September 2, 2014 Unfortunately the other way is not likely either, as locating a wealthy backer with Motherwell's interests at heart We already had one though, surely there can't two people in this world that fit this description?? I think that we're just going to have to take this season on the chin, avoid a relegation dog-fight if possible and push for sixth place. McCall's contract is up this summer, I think, so we thank him very much, let him go with our best wishes and give the job to Scott Leitch (we'll end up with a cheap option anyway, might as well be 'one of ours') with Keith Lasley either as assistant manager or academy coach to go with the final year of his playing contract. We need a dosser in charge who knows the youth set-up and the boys that show the most potential. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frazzie Posted September 2, 2014 Report Share Posted September 2, 2014 We already had one though, surely there can't two people in this world that fit this description?? I think that we're just going to have to take this season on the chin, avoid a relegation dog-fight if possible and push for sixth place. McCall's contract is up this summer, I think, so we thank him very much, let him go with our best wishes and give the job to Scott Leitch (we'll end up with a cheap option anyway, might as well be 'one of ours') with Keith Lasley either as assistant manager or academy coach to go with the final year of his playing contract. We need a dosser in charge who knows the youth set-up and the boys that show the most potential. Jesus. Fucking.. Christ. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmacd1 Posted September 2, 2014 Report Share Posted September 2, 2014 1409642271[/url]' post='420554']Jesus. Fucking.. Christ. My thoughts too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
decorator Posted September 2, 2014 Report Share Posted September 2, 2014 looks like hibs are going to go ka-boom the fans are out for blood Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underboyleheating Posted September 2, 2014 Report Share Posted September 2, 2014 looks like hibs are going to go ka-boom the fans are out for blood To what extent, admin? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
decorator Posted September 2, 2014 Report Share Posted September 2, 2014 To what extent, admin? Hibernian FC - Supporters Statement We've been lied to once again fellow Hibees. "A fresh start", "quality over quantity", "no more reliance upon loans", "goal is to win the league", "all season ticket monies to manager" it's a litany of lies, the latest in a decade or more of lies from this board and owner. Affirmative action is now required by all Hibs supporters, and I implore all fellow Hibees to get involved in a concerted campaign to oust this parsimonious board and owner now. Please share with all fellow Hibernian FC supporters groups and pages. The time for real action has come. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sup3rw3ll Posted September 2, 2014 Report Share Posted September 2, 2014 I bet Leeanne is dead chuffed she went over to the bigger club... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted September 2, 2014 Report Share Posted September 2, 2014 'affirmative action'. Do they want kevin harper back? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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