Where Do We Go From Here?

[Malky79]

Fitness. Or stamina. Or both. Seems to have been an issue for the last year. Clearly need to address it and now we only have a couple of weeks to the start of the season, I don’t know how much improvement we can make right away.

 

I certainly think we could have been back preparing a week earlier at least and we certainly didn't get much in the way of build up games. Fitness will improve as the meat and bones of the season approaches but my limited understanding of what happens in Scottish football leads me to believe we don't take strength and conditioning seriously enough. How many of our guys that come through the youths look like skinny dreeps, don't get me wrong I believe technique should be focused on first but check out the physique of players like Bale and Ronaldo you need to be a proper athlete as well to thrive, especially as not every player will have Messi like technique.

 

 

Tied in with this, the age of our key players. Back four are all 28 or older. One of the main reasons for my frustration at the use of Kerr in right midfield (aside from the fact it doesn't work) is the fact we should be trying to develop him to replace Ramsden or McManus. Playing him out of position doesn't do this. Lasley (I could understand a one year deal but two?!?) isn't getting any younger. How much game time are Leitch and Carswell going to get if it means dropping the captain? Sutton had a fantastic season but again not getting any younger. Erwin needs a chance. If we keep on with the old faithful, we're going to come to a point where we need to replace four or five of them at once and none of our young players will have developed enough to be ready for the step up.

 

Totally agree, Fraser Kerr if he has any future with us is a defender and if he isn't rated as such he should be moved on rather than trying to fit a square peg in a round hole because it a cheaper option or whatever the reasoning is. Also think than in less Ainsworth was carrying a knock or was feeling a strain he should have been left on the park. Tell him to stop tracking back but hang about the halfway line looking to use whatever energy he has left to make something happen. We have few enough players that can do that right now that subbing him for Kerr as good as kills our ability to create anything meaningful.

 

Also think if you have any faith in guys like Erwin then this Euro tie was as good a place as any to be letting them dip their toes into serious action.

 

 

Psychology of our team. Seems to me we can't deal with games where we're heavy favourites or where there's a lot riding on it. Which seems strange given what I've just said about the age of our team. Experience but not the right mentality? Something the coaching staff need to look at. Anyone else brought in will need to be a strong character, see if it can rub off, at least on the young players? Was that not what McManus coming in was supposed to be about?

 

Could start to believe that but I put last night down to an undercooked squad missing a signing or two to get it past a spirited opponent who despite being part timers could play a bit and probably did raise their game.

[Malky79]

The only long term plan is.handing out 2 year deals to a guy approaching 35 and a 32 year old.

 

Don't often agree here but 1 year deals would have been justifiable, maybe a 2 year for Hammell but for me he looks to have slowed down more than Lasley has. I haven't seen either in the flesh this season yet though.

 

A two year deal for Lasley maybe makes sense if we looking at him moving into coaching side of things but we should be looking at younger players progression as well as being loyal to tried and trusted servants as no one lasts forever.

[Malky79]

Also before I forget I know I not the first to say it but what the fuck was the Portugal jolly all about? Weather and facilities in Scotland aren't that bad that we shouldn't be wasting money on trips like that.

 

If a winter break is introduced or we switch to summer football and we need some Jan/Feb training time I think you could make a case for it but not as things stand. I'm sure the cost of the trip wasn't mega extortionate but still money spent that could have been better used elsewhere.

[Well Well]

Well so much for player pride to fight back and show their professionalism. They should be docked a fortnights wages for the last two games and made to do double sessions on their fitness.

 

The tracking back is non existent in this squad and putting in a tackle before the opposition get into the danger area is a completely alien concept and seems to have completely missed the squad and management despite it being a major issue last season and in the home game.

 

How many times does it need to happen before they realise they have an issue. How many 2-0 leads do we need to lose, how many last minute goals before it finally sinks in and someone actually takes some responsibility.

 

The one up top is clearly not working when that player has absolutely no person supporting them. Will we change the tactics that almost every team can now read easily..?? I Doubt it. I could put bets on exactly when Stu McCall will make a sub, who will come on and when we will lose that goal as a result of that substitution.

 

Yes we are that transparent. Other managers don't need to send scouts anymore as our tactics and team selection is about as predictable as MJC match forecast of a Motherwell loss.

 

I am sure the inevitable excuses will be forthcoming or maybe change it to the artificial surface to be blamed this time this time around. Predictable play, tactics and excuses.

Also maybe the club should show them where they could get gym memberships rather than golf ones. At this rate I am sure the Motherwell community team could get a decent result against them.

[Motherwell89]

The portgual trip was a bonus/reward for second place I'm sure mccall said in one of his interviews, cost of the trip would be nothing compared to the money made from finishing second apposed to say 5th or lower which was probably our target at the start of the season

[Malky79]

The portgual trip was a bonus/reward for second place I'm sure mccall said in one of his interviews, cost of the trip would be nothing compared to the money made from finishing second apposed to say 5th or lower which was probably our target at the start of the season

 

They should sack their prize bonus negociator then, it a shit bonus in my view, it preseason training however you dress it up.

[Big Stall]

Under McCall we have no long term plan . And off the park Im beginning tae wonder what sort of plans are in place ,everything at firpark is a short term solution.

 

Do you really believe we would have made Europe 6 out of the last 7 years if everything off the park was as bad??

 

You have never hidden your dislike of McCall, with your 'wee ranger' posts, your need to set up a double account to say the same thing from two posters, etc etc. Don't rate McCall, thats all fine, opinions are like arseholes as the saying goes, but some of your and other posters reactionism on here is cringe worthy.

 

Am I happy about the performance and result against the Icelandic mob? Of course not, it's a fucking shambles. But jumping the gun saying one of our best managers we have ever had is not up to the task and off-field we are a disaster is so way off the mark it's unreal.

 

Someone else posted the league decline had to come at some point and now its come. Really? We haven't even started the campaign yet!

 

From what I saw last week, I thought (first 30 minutes) we looked far more dangerous than we did for the first 3 months of last season. Obviously the fitness failings and the poor defence kicked in after that, but honestly, I was more upbeat last week than I was in the early part of last season. We at least look like we can score goals going forward, something we didn't look like doing early doors last year.

[MJC_MKI]

I just can't get over the sheer frustration of that debacle last night and last week. As I've said before, I don't really view Europe as anything more than a two game bit of fluff at the start of a season as we're never going to make any sort of impact there but I can honestly count on one hand the number of European matches I've seen us involved in that I've actually enjoyed and we have plunged new depths with this fiasco and we're now a laughing stock. Let's face it, to enjoy us being in Europe you need to be able to fork out time and money to travel abroad for the tartan army style piss up whilst shrugging off the inevitable disappointment. For me well I just don't see the appeal and if I wanted a few jars before or after the football then I'd do what I've done for years and go to the electric bar before and after the games. You try and get excited by us playing in Europe but with the clubs poor PR in the build up and absolute embarrassments like last night then it's very hard to. If I never see us playing another European match again it won't be a day too soon.

[Malky79]

Also whatever you say McCall is responsible for it certainly isn't or shouldn't be the infracstructure of the club from top to bottom.

 

Like to think a really good manager would have interest and input in our youth development but given how managers come and go their influence on that side of things should really be relatively small.

 

Far as I am concerned McCall is judged on first team results. By and large he is a tremendous manager in that respect, just that the kicks in the nadgers in his time have also been some of the worst.

[El Grew]

For me not a surprise / shock result. Who do we think we are. We have no divine right to expect to beat anybody.

 

IMO we are not progressing under Stuart McCall and it may well be time to seriously consider a change of direction because he simply lacks any tactical know how. Sure we've had a couple of good runners-up finishes - not to be sniffed at for sure - but the players no matter whether long-standing ones or new ones brought in by McCall are making the same errors over an over again.

 

He has continually failed miserably to address our defensive frailties which seem now to have worsened as nobody has been sought to replace Huthinson. Stevie Hammell has been a great club servant as has Keith Lasley but it is beginning to look as though this season is a season too far for both. Added to this that McManus who was expected to anchor the defence and prevent us losing 'daft' goals, seems past it now.

 

We should be concentrating and investing more in getting young players in. Where were we (and others come to that) when Dundee Utd were raiding the excellent youth set-up at Queens Park and signing players. The latest example is the young lad that Hull City have just offered £2M plus for and he's only been with Dundee Utd for aabout a year!!!

 

So sorry not a knee-jerk reaction to last night in suggesting getting rid of McCall - simply harsh realism that he has taken us as far as he can. We are strapped so we really need a manager and a scouting sytem that does what Dundee Utd's does as opposed to picking up poor loan signings from the lower reaches of the English league.

 

 

[makaveli]

Where Do We Go From Here?

 

Scottish Championship and put out the cups by Sevco and Airdrie Probably.

[Al B]

Know what I hate? I HATE being a cuddly, fluffy, friendly family club. I cannot STAND the constant "yeah we'll do our best but it's a privilage to be playing at this level" nonsense, and our media sound-bites regarding any of our players, no matter who it is are based around "yeah he's a good lad, works hard, keeps his head down, hopefully one day he'll be able to get a good move to an arse-end division side but we'll keep him grounded"

 

People criticize Aberdeen for their Billy-Big-Baws attitude, and other fans hate them for it but you know what....i'd LOVE a bit of that. It sickens me when you hear fans of other clubs talking about how nice we are, and how there isn't much to hate, and how we're so realistic.

 

"We're going into this game feeling like favourites, and this is a game we should win"

 

And then actually play like we believe it, because whether it's true or not....we should believe it. So we lose soemtiems and end up with egg on our faces, looking stupid, but who cares! We look stupid anyway...and i'd rather look stupid for thinking we're amazing, than look stupid because we look like the playground sap that doesn't even believe they should be there.

 

We might still take a tanking....but whoever beats us should most definitely be appreciating their victory whilst lying in the hospital bed next to us, not sitting in the pub laughing at how pathetic we were whilst we borderline apologise for daring to turn up.

[MelvinBragg]

From what I saw last week, I thought (first 30 minutes) we looked far more dangerous than we did for the first 3 months of last season. Obviously the fitness failings and the poor defence kicked in after that, but honestly, I was more upbeat last week than I was in the early part of last season. We at least look like we can score goals going forward, something we didn't look like doing early doors last year.

Indeed, we've scored goals. And that's with the much maligned John Sutton playing up front himself (as he always essentially did last season, McFadden and Anier dropped deeper a lot to pick up possession/find space). Law has two goals and an assist. There are positives there. Just need to work hard to find them right now.

 

I think the club has to address the fact that a lot of fans will have been totally scunnered by this tie. Not just the usual reactionaries but people who normally roll with the punches. In danger of losing the goodwill of a lot of fans, which they will need as financially times are tight.

 

What can the club do? An exciting signing? On our budget?

 

Haven't seen him play but by all accounts Thomas is an exciting player. Play him and Ainsworth. Bring in the young players. Give the fans belief that there is some kind of long term plan. And for god's sake, get them fit. We can forgive incompetence, but lack of effort or the perception of lack of effort in training sticks in our throats..

[MJC_MKI]

1406289018[/url]' post='417401']

Know what I hate? I HATE being a cuddly, fluffy, friendly family club. I cannot STAND the constant "yeah we'll do our best but it's a privilage to be playing at this level" nonsense, and our media sound-bites regarding any of our players, no matter who it is are based around "yeah he's a good lad, works hard, keeps his head down, hopefully one day he'll be able to get a good move to an arse-end division side but we'll keep him grounded"

 

People criticize Aberdeen for their Billy-Big-Baws attitude, and other fans hate them for it but you know what....i'd LOVE a bit of that. It sickens me when you hear fans of other clubs talking about how nice we are, and how there isn't much to hate, and how we're so realistic.

 

"We're going into this game feeling like favourites, and this is a game we should win"

 

And then actually play like we believe it, because whether it's true or not....we should believe it. So we lose soemtiems and end up with egg on our faces, looking stupid, but who cares! We look stupid anyway...and i'd rather look stupid for thinking we're amazing, than look stupid because we look like the playground sap that doesn't even believe they should be there.

 

We might still take a tanking....but whoever beats us should most definitely be appreciating their victory whilst lying in the hospital bed next to us, not sitting in the pub laughing at how pathetic we were whilst we borderline apologise for daring to turn up.

 

In a nutshell.

[johnstone]

I think this result has been caused due to a lack of funds at the club.

 

Yes we have given a number of players new contracts, but really its been obvious that we are not able to compete with most other clubs in the top flight.

 

This has left us with an even smaller squad than last year, this has resulted in a lack competition for places.

 

Also I have to question Gordon Marshall - he is the one that picks the goalkeepers and so far its been pretty ropey to say the least. For me the goalie is the one of the most important positions in the team as it instills confidence throughout the side, to me the players don't seem confident in this young kid currently between the sticks.

 

We need to replace Hutchison as these two games prove he was integral to our defence. We now have no pace and teams will rip us apart going forward.

 

Also our strike options are Sutton and Erwin.......thats not good enough.

[MelvinBragg]

Personally, I'd be going with Nielsen in goals. Nothing I've seen of Twardzik tells me he's better than him. Nielsen was just finding form when McCall inexplicably recalled Hollis at the end of the season.

 

And he can save a penalty. If we're going to be giving away one every week, it might come in useful...

[Fal_Dosser]

Fair post Grew, although I probably sit on the side of the fence that would say we give SMc more time - I am of the opinion that he has done a great job, in the main, in his time here, with the funding structure available to him, but I wouldn't hide the fact that some of our cup performances, and that's any cup competition, have left a lot to be desired. IMO SMC needs to be braver, both with tactics, and also with personnel - it's seriously frustrating watching us in control of games only to switch off or see subs come on to try and hold a result, and if the young ones are knocking at the door, give them their chance

 

I liked Terry Butcher's reign at FP and was sad to see him go, but possibly with hindsight, he took us as far as he could, and we needed a new spark to take another step on - time'll tell with regards to SMc

 

Like a few on here, I've seen many a low, as well as highs, in my near 50 years a dosser, but anyone who thinks I shrug last night off and move on, is sadly mistaken - maybe I get too involved, or take this footie lark too seriously, but the likes of last night and last week do still get to me

 

I sincerely hope the team prove the majority wrong and do the business in the league, but again, only time will tell.

 

 

MON RA DOSSERS

[David]

Do you really believe we would have made Europe 6 out of the last 7 years if everything off the park was as bad??

 

You have never hidden your dislike of McCall, with your 'wee ranger' posts, your need to set up a double account to say the same thing from two posters, etc etc. Don't rate McCall, thats all fine, opinions are like arseholes as the saying goes, but some of your and other posters reactionism on here is cringe worthy.

 

Am I happy about the performance and result against the Icelandic mob? Of course not, it's a fucking shambles. But jumping the gun saying one of our best managers we have ever had is not up to the task and off-field we are a disaster is so way off the mark it's unreal.

 

Someone else posted the league decline had to come at some point and now its come. Really? We haven't even started the campaign yet!

 

From what I saw last week, I thought (first 30 minutes) we looked far more dangerous than we did for the first 3 months of last season. Obviously the fitness failings and the poor defence kicked in after that, but honestly, I was more upbeat last week than I was in the early part of last season. We at least look like we can score goals going forward, something we didn't look like doing early doors last year.

Hold on, we have someone actually talking sense here! I thought it would be a few more days before I saw that!

[Lobey_Dosser]

Biggest issue for me - who the fuck is running the club?

 

As much as I didn't like Dempster for driving us to the financial brink as part of her profile boosting crusade, who now makes the day to day decisions at Fir Park?

 

Who is at fault for failing to organise friendlies? Who is at fault for failing to replace 3 of our highest earners in advance of a lucrative tie against part time opposition?

 

Answer these questions and then you can then turn your attention to the shortcomings of management and players.

 

Not for the first time, McCall has got his preparation and tactics for a cup game horribly wrong but he has been hung out to dry this summer.

[Andy_P]

I think those eager for sweeping changes are likely to be disappointed. We'll most likely continue to do as have in the decade or so administration by trying to eek out the very maximum we can with as modest an investment we can.

 

How can we do much else?

 

Let's be honest nobody wants our club. Nobody was interested when the club was "cleaned up" after administration and thus far the fans have shown their isn't sufficient interest in going forward. Yeah there is talk of external investment but the cost of that remains to be seen.

 

So at the moment we have what we have in terms of the board members, the infrastructure and the fanbase, and the constraints which all that brings. Over the piece they've done a bloody grand job of things but things are obviously getting inceasingly more difficult with every passing year until we see the return of Rangers, the Edinburgh clubs and God forbid, the league actually managing to secure a sponsorship deal of some note.

 

Which itself obviously has an impact on the football side of things. It was said that by finishing second it enabled McCall to retain the same budget as last season but I can't really hold it against him for not using it up just yet. The squad obviously needs strengthened both in quality and in depth but with five or six weeks before the window closes I would rather he waited to get the right players to add to the team use it early just to try to see us through an early European tie, or he believes that Erwin, Thomas and Leitch are worth a closer look first.

 

How will we do next season? I've no idea. I thought we'd struggle last year but to better the season before that was incredible, even if it at times it certainly wasn't pretty. The feeling is every summer that our star is on the wane but we've managed to keep things going throughout his reign, in the league at least, and again he deserves a huge amount of credit for that.

 

Whatever happens McCall is in a pretty good position even after results like Albion Rovers and Stjarnan. He can point to consistant success since he arrived with reductions in budget from when he started, even allowing for a few tear-jerkers in the Cups. He has his Scotland role and is well thought of.

 

Unless we have McLean or Malpas like demonstrations the board surely aren't going to sack him. If he goes it will be through a more natural conclusion that his contract runs out or he's tempted away.

 

So all things considered thats a fairly long winded way of saying I doubt anyting is likely to change too dramatically any time soon even if it may leave many Motherwell fans even more apathetic than they are already.

[makaveli]

Hold on, we have someone actually talking sense here! I thought it would be a few more days before I saw that!

 

 

Thought this place would have held up for more than a few days... Was taking some resolve from the entertainment value of this place after a result like this

[underboyleheating]

For me the goalie is the one of the most important positions in the team

The jewel in any teams crown.

 

 

[weeyin]

Psychology of our team. Seems to me we can't deal with games where we're heavy favourites or where there's a lot riding on it.

 

That's just Confirmation Bias at work.

 

You don't even need to look that far back to see a counter-example. We had to win our last 3 games to finish 2nd, and we took 9 points.

[MelvinBragg]

That's just Confirmation Bias at work.

 

You don't even need to look that far back to see a counter-example. We had to win our last 3 games to finish 2nd, and we took 9 points.

Aye, but having seen all three, the nerves were evident in the team in those games. And to be honest with you, second or third isn't a lot riding on it (would third be a terrible season?). Cup games where there's a realistic chance of winning something or games where there's no glory in victory only embarrassment in defeat, that's where we struggle...

[David]

When it comes to the cups under McCall we've lost 2-1 to Aberdeen in the quarter-finals, 2-1 to Aberdeen in a replay in the 4th round, and the game against Albion Rovers when it comes to the Scottish cup.

 

The league cup has seen us lose to Hibs in the 3rd round on penalties, 2-0 to Rangers in the third round, and 2-0 to Aberdeen in the quarter finals.

 

Looking at our European record under McCall, we've lost ties to Panathinaikos, Levante, Krasnodar and Stjarnan.

 

I see two glaring results there. Stjarnan and Rovers. The other domestic cup games, whilst definitely winnable, aren't a complete shambles by any account. The European games? I didn't expect us to beat any of those other sides who played us.