johnstone Posted July 25, 2014 Report Share Posted July 25, 2014 We have had three horror show results under McCall and unfortunately they have been in the cups. Â Other than that he has been an incredible manager for us and I think we are forgetting this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted July 25, 2014 Report Share Posted July 25, 2014 We have had three horror show results under McCall and unfortunately they have been in the cups. Â Other than that he has been an incredible manager for us and I think we are forgetting this. Of course we're forgetting it. That's how this forum works, remember? Â We've went from the high of beating Aberdeen and finishing 2nd to the team suddenly having a losers mentality, a yellow streak, and a manager who is poor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Diggle Posted July 25, 2014 Report Share Posted July 25, 2014 McCalls Achilles Heel is his risk averse nature which means he's not as successful in cups as he should be (well not really successful in cups at all) and we are very reticent about blooding youngsters. Â Some terrible cup results and a terrible track record regarding the 'IN' column of the club accounts. Â Other than that we're fine. Â There's not a soul anywhere near this forum that would have the merest clue about doing any better in the long term performance of the club. Â The squad is a better unit than any in the league on and it would appear off the park. Â The ones questioning McCalls overall suitability - be careful what you wish for 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted July 25, 2014 Report Share Posted July 25, 2014 IMO we are not progressing under Stuart McCall and it may well be time to seriously consider a change of direction because he simply lacks any tactical know how. Sure we've had a couple of good runners-up finishes - not to be sniffed at for sure - but the players no matter whether long-standing ones or new ones brought in by McCall are making the same errors over an over again. Â He has continually failed miserably to address our defensive frailties which seem now to have worsened as nobody has been sought to replace Huthinson. Stevie Hammell has been a great club servant as has Keith Lasley but it is beginning to look as though this season is a season too far for both. Added to this that McManus who was expected to anchor the defence and prevent us losing 'daft' goals, seems past it now. Â So sorry not a knee-jerk reaction to last night in suggesting getting rid of McCall - simply harsh realism that he has taken us as far as he can. We are strapped so we really need a manager and a scouting sytem that does what Dundee Utd's does as opposed to picking up poor loan signings from the lower reaches of the English league. Â Â To quote Lobey Dosser "Who is at fault for failing to organise friendlies? Who is at fault for failing to replace 3 of our highest earners in advance of a lucrative tie against part time opposition? Answer these questions and then you can then turn your attention to the shortcomings of management and players. Not for the first time, McCall has got his preparation and tactics for a cup game horribly wrong but he has been hung out to dry this summer. " Yes these are all legitimate questions which I myself have been asking. It may be that Stuart McCall has been knocked back by the powers that be on various factors - we just don't know. Â What is clear now is that our Euro Cup exit was a disaster in the making. Â Overall I agree with El Grew. Stuart McCall joined us with a mixed track record and that has continued at Fir Park. As far as the league is concerned he has done extremely well - no argument from me on that score. However as far as cups and other competitions are concerned he has done very poorly, probably disastrously. The deciding factor for me though is the long running serial weaknesses which he has been unable or unwilling to address. We all know they include a leaky defence, an imbalanced midfield and latterly poor goalkeepers. Over the past 2 close seasons we've seen questionable 2 year deals handed out to Steve Hammell, Keith Lasley, Paul Lawson and Bob McHugh (for various reasons). Â Probably now time to change direction. I believe that the management team are contracted for a further year. It is up to the club management how the next 12 months and longer are handled. Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
punk_in_drublic Posted July 25, 2014 Report Share Posted July 25, 2014 For me there are a few things. Â The Goalkeeper - Now I'm not slating Dan Twardzik here, but what I do want to say is that Jamie MacDonald was released from Hearts 10 days before we signed Twardzik. Personally I rate him, i thought he more than proved himself in the SPFL over the last two years. He won the Hearts player of the year two years in a row just there. I thought that was an opportunity for us to sign a reasonably solid SPFL standard keeper. Maybe we tried maybe we didn't. We have Twardzik now and I really hope he will become a great goalkeeper for us. Ultimately he isn't a fully tried and tested SPFL goalkeeper yet and it looks like the judgement of Marshall has been to go with Dan (I've not been convinced by Marshalls decisions up till this point). MacDonald is starting this season with Falkirk in the Championship. Â Freshness - We seem to be a predictable and uninspired group of players. I felt at the World Cup there that the mode of playing suddenly shifted to a quicker game with width and deep lying forwards, it was like a new era to my brain. Then Motherwell played in Europe and made me realise that we are quite cumbersome and laborious in our tactics and desire. It seems like we need a freshness brought through the team. This might be some new ideas from the coaching staff. Maybe we don't have the players to freshen up our tactical approach at this point. Â The Manager - I understand why some people are calling for McCall to go, but I think they are wanting something fresh (as noted above) and this is being intertwined with the extreme condition to achieve freshness is by replacing the manager. I really like McCall, I've been a fan of most of the signings he has made. And when the likes of Brown and McGhee fucked off at the first opportunity, McCall didn't. And the ironic thing about that is that he's been far more successful than those two. I want McCall to stay but he needs to really shake up his ideas and approach. Â The Youth Set Up - Given our central belt location and proximity to large populous areas, we should be producing more than we are. I know some people are saying youth players need a chance to prove themselves. But they do get this chance in training, in U20s matches. The chance is there. If I were a young player id be studying football every waking hour. We need to take an academic approach to football. After training I would be keen to see study of tactics, psychology, historical evolution of tactics, education on diet, on sleeping patterns, the human anatomy, what to strengthen for what positions on the field. These players should become like machines. Nothing should be put into the body or the mind other than things that will continue to improve their ability and understanding of participating in their profession. Football isn't a game. Football is a profession. Â These are the first things that are jumping out at me at the moment. I know from reading other posts some people will agree and others won't but it's a venting process just now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECOSSE1991 Posted July 25, 2014 Report Share Posted July 25, 2014 We have had three horror show results under McCall and unfortunately they have been in the cups. Â Other than that he has been an incredible manager for us and I think we are forgetting this. Â 100% correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texanwellfan Posted July 25, 2014 Report Share Posted July 25, 2014 Lumpin Feck! Â I am as gutted as the next person over the result last night but it's really hard to believe some of the comments on here. Of course McCall has weaknesses, of course he makes bad decisions, of course we have fkd up some games but keep it in perspective the results over the past few years have been almost unbelieveable to such an extent that I think that we are developing somewhat of an "old firm like" complex. How good or bad is he ? Only fair comparison would be to look at results for him and previous managers. Games played( Cups and League ) : Won lost tied How does his percentage compare to other managers? I don't know but I would wager he has to be in the top 3 of our managers all time. Who would come in and do better? Â As for change of direction, being relaistic, from the past 3 years the only change of direction is going to be down the way. Â Â Â "The deciding factor for me though is the long running serial weaknesses which he has been unable or unwilling to address. We all know they include a leaky defence, an imbalanced midfield and latterly poor goalkeepers" Â I think he addressed it by finishing best of the rest for the past 3 years :-) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted July 25, 2014 Report Share Posted July 25, 2014 Lumpin Feck! Â I am as gutted as the next person over the result last night but it's really hard to believe some of the comments on here. Of course McCall has weaknesses, of course he makes bad decisions, of course we have fkd up some games but keep it in perspective the results over the past few years have been almost unbelieveable to such an extent that I think that we are developing somewhat of an "old firm like" complex. How good or bad is he ? Only fair comparison would be to look at results for him and previous managers. Games played( Cups and League ) : Won lost tied How does his percentage compare to other managers? I don't know but I would wager he has to be in the top 3 of our managers all time. Who would come in and do better? Â As for change of direction, being relaistic, from the past 3 years the only change of direction is going to be down the way. Â Â Â "The deciding factor for me though is the long running serial weaknesses which he has been unable or unwilling to address. We all know they include a leaky defence, an imbalanced midfield and latterly poor goalkeepers" Â I think he addressed it by finishing best of the rest for the past 3 years :-) Â True to a point, but that's only part of the picture. It wasn't addressed in our cup defeats to Rangers, Aberdeen, Albion Rovers, Celtic and Starnjan. Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waldo Posted July 25, 2014 Report Share Posted July 25, 2014 The only long term plan is.handing out 2 year deals to a guy approaching 35 and a 32 year old. Not that I am saying you are wrong but if your cup is half full - the player of the season and a Scotland squad player. Â Anyone with half a brain can - pick huge holes in the set up at MFC - fund huge good things in the set up at MFC. Â Where do we go from here? Same place as we always go, following the Dossers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Tanamo Posted July 25, 2014 Report Share Posted July 25, 2014 Where do we go from here ?  1 of 2 ways:  keep SM,  or  replace McCall with someone who has a clue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSteelman Posted July 25, 2014 Report Share Posted July 25, 2014 Where do we go from here ?  1 of 2 ways:  keep SM,  or  replace McCall with someone who has a clue. I think you'd find if we replaced Stuart McCall we would go downhill very quickly. Out of curiosity who would be your choice if we had to replace him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
something else Posted July 26, 2014 Report Share Posted July 26, 2014 One thing thats for sure with the current side. We are so rigid and so predictable. We have absolutely no plan b. Â Winning, losing or drawing the subs are the same week in week out. 2 attacking players off 2 defensive players on. Â We are in serious need of a refreshing change in the team and tactics. Last season leitch and Moore came in and it was like a breath of fresh air. Guys like Erwin , Thomas etc need to be given a chance. This is why friendly games are vital, try out new systems and give players game time and a chance. Â Too many players are in that comfort zone and know they won't be dropped or even subbed. Sutton being the main one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted July 26, 2014 Report Share Posted July 26, 2014 Some good posts on Fir Park Corner just now. One particular one concerned Stuart McCall. His contract is up for renewal at the end of this season. He'll be looking around and we should do the same. He has achieved much in the league but has made just too many cup cock ups. One particular criticism that seems to carry weight is that he doesn't learn from his mistakes. I'd give him this season to see if he can change that and lead us to a degree of success in the cups (draws permitting). By that I don't necessarily mean winning silverware although that would be great. Â Personally I'd be prepared to sacrifice a very high league finish for strong performances in the cups. Â Irrespective of the above, some kind of review needs to take place this season to examine the way the club is run. We seem to be making just too many mistakes on and off the field. Â Â Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chummy Posted July 26, 2014 Report Share Posted July 26, 2014 Imo, the youth system has suffered since Gordon Young left. dont know if this has been mentioned on previous posts..couldnt be arsed trawling back Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted July 26, 2014 Report Share Posted July 26, 2014 Imo, the youth system has suffered since Gordon Young left. Â Â We'll know for sure in 3/4 years time. Certainly something has gone wrong with our youth system in past years, and especially since John Park left, although he was a hard act to follow. Â Â Â Â Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gee Posted July 26, 2014 Report Share Posted July 26, 2014 If McCall left at the end of his contract I could see Leitch being promoted with Hammell and Lasley assisting. Similar to St Mirren this season. Â I think the problem is we have made too many short term signings that haven't balanced the squad. Â It isn't easy to go out and sign young ambitious players with good technique that can be sold on after developing with us but it can be done and other clubs are focussing on it more than us it seems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted July 26, 2014 Report Share Posted July 26, 2014 Imo, the youth system has suffered since Gordon Young left. dont know if this has been mentioned on previous posts..couldnt be arsed trawling back  it's declined in the past 10 months? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brazilian Posted July 26, 2014 Report Share Posted July 26, 2014 Imo, the youth system has suffered since Gordon Young left. dont know if this has been mentioned on previous posts..couldnt be arsed trawling back  you'll be one of Gordons many chums then,  youth systems very rarely deliver in less than one year, there would be a huge element of luck in that.  Ive not had the spin from either party on his departure, but looking back over his time, he was not exactly a roaring success was he?  now the managers, over the period , were not exactly known for bringing youth on, but equally very little of his boys have actually progressed beyond divison one football. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underboyleheating Posted July 26, 2014 Report Share Posted July 26, 2014 Despite our recent league success, we appear to be lagging behind sides like Dundee United by cashing in on players raped and pillaged from smaller teams like Queens Park (like it or not United are ruthless at this practice). We need to toughen up if we are going to survive as there are no prizes for being the nice guys of Scottish Football. Hopefully Flow or someone from the club will spell out their vision for the future of Motherwell FC and how we are going to survive in this tough economic climate. I would love to hear that the futures bright, the futures claret & amber, however at the moment I am feeling very skeptical about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Diggle Posted July 26, 2014 Report Share Posted July 26, 2014 Imo, the youth system has suffered since Gordon Young left. dont know if this has been mentioned on previous posts..couldnt be arsed trawling back Baws Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goggles & Flippers Posted July 26, 2014 Report Share Posted July 26, 2014 With respect to the topic title "where do we go from here" Â How about we stop wringing our knickers out like a bunch of little bitches? Â Look we've missed out on a bit of cash, not the end of the world, just no more opposition at a much lower level putting us out please Stuart. Â Out of interest, a lot has been made of our professionals playing part timers. When I played amateur in my youth I trained twice a week for 2 hours, if I played junior it would probably be 3x. Â As far as I understand it our players get Sunday off (based on 3pm Sat KO), Monday to Friday 10:00am for 10:30 start and done by 12:30 so 10 hours a week, hardly a huge gulf. Maybe I'm naive but past lunchtime do most Well players have the rest of the day to themselves? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frazzie Posted July 26, 2014 Report Share Posted July 26, 2014 So we should go part time then? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goggles & Flippers Posted July 26, 2014 Report Share Posted July 26, 2014 Aye that's it, hit it on the head, well done Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frazzie Posted July 26, 2014 Report Share Posted July 26, 2014 Well by your logic it won't make much difference and we'd save a fortune. I train twice a week and it gives me the fear to think that our mob could compete with Motherwell over two legs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milo Posted July 26, 2014 Report Share Posted July 26, 2014 Not only compete, but draw and win! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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