rambunctious Posted July 28, 2014 Report Share Posted July 28, 2014 Thank goodness there are still Motherwell fans who appreciate the achievements McCall has brought to the club. I agree 100% with you that anyone wanting him to go is a fool and knows nothing about the financial state of our club, the resources available, the position we could be in without him. Do they really believe we could improve? I've been going to Fir park for 50 years so please trust me when I say that we are seeing some of the best results, performances, league finishes in that time. Yes cup performances could be improved, but I struggle to think of a time in the past 50 years that I would swap for the past 3-4 seasons. The derogatory comments and some of the language used to describe McCall as a manager is what I would expect from certain other west coast fans, but is that the type of fan that now goes to Fir Park? Have they been spoiled with top 3 finishes and European football? I was 34 before I saw Motherwell win a cup and qualify for Europe, dear knows how some of our fans today would have survived watching the 'Well during that period, losing every Scottish/League/Texaco cup semi-final, no Europe, relegation. Please do not think that I believe all is perfect with our club, the cup performances have been shocking/substitutions questionable etc but this is nothing new, they were in the past too. Push McCall out the door and we will regret it. ^^^Reported for excessive common sense and logic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underboyleheating Posted July 28, 2014 Report Share Posted July 28, 2014 would he be not also singularly responsible the monies accrued in by reaching a Scottish Cup Final and three consecutive top three finishes? He certainly does Andy, however, I am sure that McCall would admit that the defeats at the hands of Rovers and Stjarnan where a financial blow to Motherwell. This is something that a club like ours really need to address as it is becoming a bit of a habit losing cup matches to teams that we really should be beating. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted July 28, 2014 Report Share Posted July 28, 2014 Not that I'm happy with our recent Cup performances, but if big teams in the EPL struggle with squad size and rotation to stay competitive in European, League and 2 Cup competitions, then we really have no chance. We play a style that generally works well over 38 games, but can be exploited in a one-off. Changing style just for Cup games is unlikely to work, so if we are to succeed in that area we might need to change our entire approach (and, I imagine would basically mean being more defensive). That is a high risk strategy given the potential downside of less league wins and still getting papped out the cups. Striking the balance between league and Cups is never going to be easy given our financial constraints, but I'd rather see league success than Cup success in the long term. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellfan1992 Posted July 30, 2014 Report Share Posted July 30, 2014 Not that I'm happy with our recent Cup performances, but if big teams in the EPL struggle with squad size and rotation to stay competitive in European, League and 2 Cup competitions, then we really have no chance. We play a style that generally works well over 38 games, but can be exploited in a one-off. Changing style just for Cup games is unlikely to work, so if we are to succeed in that area we might need to change our entire approach (and, I imagine would basically mean being more defensive). That is a high risk strategy given the potential downside of less league wins and still getting papped out the cups. Striking the balance between league and Cups is never going to be easy given our financial constraints, but I'd rather see league success than Cup success in the long term. I agree that in the long term league success is better than good cup runs and getting an extra game in Europe. But to say we need to change our whole approach in order to win in the cups is nonsense. (especially against part time Icelandic pish) The players should get out on the pitch and do what there paid for. Sub-standard performances, lack of motivation, and shite substitutions are at fault for 2 embarrassing results against stjarnan and albion. Nothing to do with overall playing style and approach I dont think 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goggles & Flippers Posted July 30, 2014 Report Share Posted July 30, 2014 In the past year, 4 poor performances (3 against lower opposition - 2 Starjnan and Albion Rovers) and one against a team who were reduced to 10 men after 5 minutes. Versus Going to Pittodrie on the last day of the season, won against the odds against a team who on paper had more to offer. So thats: 4:1 £700k:£250k Maybe a bit tasty to pick one game out of a whole season as the games preceding that obviously are what allowed us to compete with Aberdeen on the last day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inthebasement Posted July 30, 2014 Report Share Posted July 30, 2014 Where do we go from here? Quite simply we as a club need to grow a set and address this pathetic losers mentality that we are riddled with from top to bottom. Debacles like last night are continually shrugged off with 'we ain't Barcelona, we're punching waaaay above our weight' all while such results, along with the cup failures are financially damaging us and serious questions should be being asked of the manager, players, preparation tactics and fitness. Anticipate the standard McCall apology in the next 24 to 48 hours along with vows to learn lessons and put it right in the cup....then we'll get Lasley and Hammell etc tweeting about their lunch at Nandos and their round of golf afterwards, cue everyone thinking 'what a great bunch of lads our boys are' ........repeat the same process after we get pumped out of the league cup at the first hurdle by East Fife or whoever. As someone said in the other thread, the players must love playing at Motherwell because they get such an easy ride of it, from both the club and the support and there is no expectation or desire to go that bit further and achieve something. I hate with a passion the 'We are all Stuart McCall' line but it's probably fairly accurate because our lack of expectation as a club suits him down to the ground. If he ever gets a move to a bigger club he will flop spectacularly because he is no tactical genius and is in fact a poor manager but he gets away with it here because our expectation levels are non existent. The team has produced victories where you predicted a loss about 100 times over the last three years. We are breaking all time Well records in points and goals. That's why we are in Europe and expect to do well in the cups. Eventually Well will go through a few years of Dundee / Killie / Partick level existence, scrapping for draws to keep off the bottom every week, and listening to a shite stuttering manager losing the plot with Chick Young on BBC Scotland. Talk of the chronic problems at our club during the spell we were best of the rest three years running will be hard to fathom. There is no way a spell like that will happen under McCall and that is why most in our support appreciate the job he has done, especially in the rebuild season. The truth is we are simply not that good, we have footballers on modest salaries plucked from low levels of the game all over the team because that is all we can afford. Our consistency is an amazing achievement and is precisely about the passion, commitment and ambition you claim we lack. Where do you think that comes from, our 'easy ride' support? We get found out a few times every season when the opposition has a little class or is as committed as we are. 4,000 core support means we are minnows and anyone who can kick a ball leaves for cash after a few decent games. Our talented players will not sign long contracts as we don't have the funds to tempt them. There are no easy solutions and just saying 'it needs sorted out' or 'we need a winning mentality' on the internet doesn't mean a thing. Give the team a little credit and support and take a couple of pish results on the chin. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
couttsy Posted July 30, 2014 Report Share Posted July 30, 2014 1406740423[/url]' post='417900']The team has produced victories where you predicted a loss about 100 times over the last three years. We are breaking all time Well records in points and goals. That's why we are in Europe and expect to do well in the cups. Eventually Well will go through a few years of Dundee / Killie / Partick level existence, scrapping for draws to keep off the bottom every week, and listening to a shite stuttering manager losing the plot with Chick Young on BBC Scotland. Talk of the chronic problems at our club during the spell we were best of the rest three years running will be hard to fathom. There is no way a spell like that will happen under McCall and that is why most in our support appreciate the job he has done, especially in the rebuild season. The truth is we are simply not that good, we have footballers on modest salaries plucked from low levels of the game all over the team because that is all we can afford. Our consistency is an amazing achievement and is precisely about the passion, commitment and ambition you claim we lack. Where do you think that comes from, our 'easy ride' support? We get found out a few times every season when the opposition has a little class or is as committed as we are. 4,000 core support means we are minnows and anyone who can kick a ball leaves for cash after a few decent games. Our talented players will not sign long contracts as we don't have the funds to tempt them. There are no easy solutions and just saying 'it needs sorted out' or 'we need a winning mentality' on the internet doesn't mean a thing. Give the team a little credit and support and take a couple of pish results on the chin. Best post I have read on here in a long time! Whilst it's disappointing to lose games we are expected to win do we really need the mass hysteria we see on here every time it happens? Stuart McCall has his faults and the fact that he sometimes doesn't seem to learn can be hugely frustrating, however in the most part he has done a fantastic job! We will, collectively, as a support look back on the last 5 or 6 years as being one of the best periods in the clubs history! Winning games, scoring goals, best of the rest, getting into Europe, let's not let 2 or 3 games (and I know it's frustrating) cloud what we have achieved over the last few years. One day, and maybe soon Scottish football will go back to being dominated by the city clubs (because they have the most money) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted July 30, 2014 Report Share Posted July 30, 2014 The truth is we are simply not that good, we have footballers on modest salaries plucked from low levels of the game all over the team because that is all we can afford. 4,000 core support means we are minnows and anyone who can kick a ball leaves for cash after a few decent games. If we're not that good where does that leave Scottish football? Minnows compared to who exactly? We're one of the biggest clubs in Scotland - probably in the top 8 size wise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
star sail Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 I have read with interest all the comments over the last week on where the game against Stjarnan went wrong and where we go from here. What Stjarnan showed us is that if a team plays as a unit with determination and good organisation then much can be achieved. I will be very interested to see the result against Lech Poznan this evening to see if possibly collectively we have underestimated this team. The concept of match fitness being an excuse, I do not understand. Match sharpness yes, but any day of the year a professional football side should be man for man fitter than a semi pro team regardless of start of of season, mid season or any other time. Stjarnan scored in the last five minutes of a game lasting 120 mins suggesting that endurance fitness was the difference between the teams. Motherwell were considerably sharper in the first 20 minutes of both legs suggesting that match sharpness is indeed not an issue. I would like to see a statistic for the number of goals conceeded in the last 10 mins of games by Motherwell in comparison with the other teams in the 2013-14 season. I suspect that it may make uncomfortable reading and could again point to a lack of endurance fitness. For me personally one of the most enjoyable times watching Motherwell over the last decade was in the first two/ three months of Jim Gannon's reign. Ultimately as we all know it ended badly but few would disagree that JG's philosophy of how a team like Motherwell should progress was both exciting and forward thinking. JG did not have the man management skills to put his ideas into practice but the idea was good. Coach and improve young players and give them the opportunity of first team football. Celtic have now appointed a manager who's philosophy is not disimilar to JG's. I am no fan of Celtic but I hope it does work for him, particularly given the lazy way in which rangers continue to throw money at players in the hope of buying success. To my mind the biggest hurdle to such an approach is the fans. How many times have we listened to young players at Fir Park being slaughtered for a misplaced pass or a performance that is not perfect? It will be RD's biggest hurdle at Celtic. If the fans decide not to give him the time he will be out, regardless of a board that at this time buy into his approach. For this reason if a club like Motherwell was to whole heartedly go down the route of developing young players it would have to get the fans on side. A communication of the objectives, an educating of the fan's to be patient and to accept from time to time the errattic nature of a young side I believe would work. Personally if I was watching a young, fit motherwell side of home grown talent, well drilled and organised it would be more rewarding than the july jaunt (and ultimate humiliation) into Europe. If the board of Motherwell were to decide that this was the way forward they would need to ask Stuart McCall if he shared this vision. If he did, there would be nothing to suggest that he does not having the coaching ability and man management skills to be the right man to take the club forward. If he does not share this vision then maybe now would be the time to thank him for what has been a fantastic job and look for someone else. So bringing back McFadden, Clarkson and Pearson is not for me. In Stuart Carswell, I think we have an excellent young player. He was the stand out player for me in the first leg at fir Park. I would like to see more of this type of player coming through the system at Fir Park. The club and the fans would reap the rewards in the long term and the production of talented young players would ultimately provide the financial viability of the club. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelvinBragg Posted July 31, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 I have read with interest all the comments over the last week on where the game against Stjarnan went wrong and where we go from here. What Stjarnan showed us is that if a team plays as a unit with determination and good organisation then much can be achieved. I will be very interested to see the result against Lech Poznan this evening to see if possibly collectively we have underestimated this team. The concept of match fitness being an excuse, I do not understand. Match sharpness yes, but any day of the year a professional football side should be man for man fitter than a semi pro team regardless of start of of season, mid season or any other time. Stjarnan scored in the last five minutes of a game lasting 120 mins suggesting that endurance fitness was the difference between the teams. Motherwell were considerably sharper in the first 20 minutes of both legs suggesting that match sharpness is indeed not an issue. I would like to see a statistic for the number of goals conceeded in the last 10 mins of games by Motherwell in comparison with the other teams in the 2013-14 season. I suspect that it may make uncomfortable reading and could again point to a lack of endurance fitness. For me personally one of the most enjoyable times watching Motherwell over the last decade was in the first two/ three months of Jim Gannon's reign. Ultimately as we all know it ended badly but few would disagree that JG's philosophy of how a team like Motherwell should progress was both exciting and forward thinking. JG did not have the man management skills to put his ideas into practice but the idea was good. Coach and improve young players and give them the opportunity of first team football. Celtic have now appointed a manager who's philosophy is not disimilar to JG's. I am no fan of Celtic but I hope it does work for him, particularly given the lazy way in which rangers continue to throw money at players in the hope of buying success. To my mind the biggest hurdle to such an approach is the fans. How many times have we listened to young players at Fir Park being slaughtered for a misplaced pass or a performance that is not perfect? It will be RD's biggest hurdle at Celtic. If the fans decide not to give him the time he will be out, regardless of a board that at this time buy into his approach. For this reason if a club like Motherwell was to whole heartedly go down the route of developing young players it would have to get the fans on side. A communication of the objectives, an educating of the fan's to be patient and to accept from time to time the errattic nature of a young side I believe would work. Personally if I was watching a young, fit motherwell side of home grown talent, well drilled and organised it would be more rewarding than the july jaunt (and ultimate humiliation) into Europe. If the board of Motherwell were to decide that this was the way forward they would need to ask Stuart McCall if he shared this vision. If he did, there would be nothing to suggest that he does not having the coaching ability and man management skills to be the right man to take the club forward. If he does not share this vision then maybe now would be the time to thank him for what has been a fantastic job and look for someone else. So bringing back McFadden, Clarkson and Pearson is not for me. In Stuart Carswell, I think we have an excellent young player. He was the stand out player for me in the first leg at fir Park. I would like to see more of this type of player coming through the system at Fir Park. The club and the fans would reap the rewards in the long term and the production of talented young players would ultimately provide the financial viability of the club. Post of the decade... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goggles & Flippers Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 If the board of Motherwell were to decide that this was the way forward they would need to ask Stuart McCall if he shared this vision. If he did, there would be nothing to suggest that he does not having the coaching ability and man management skills to be the right man to take the club forward. If he does not share this vision then maybe now would be the time to thank him for what has been a fantastic job and look for someone else. Good post, too sensible for on here, you considered FPC? Along with that, can the board maybe suggest sending a scout or Kenny Black to the odd 3rd/4th tier match to see what's on offer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yassin Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 Re. Gannon - I think he'd be a better DoF than manager. He could sign players and bring through the youth while Mccall could be the player's pal and coach them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siebsbarmyarmy Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 Great post Star Sail and I agree 100%. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ankles Posted August 4, 2014 Report Share Posted August 4, 2014 Ahhhthe old Where do we go from here thread, every season deserves one ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waldo Posted August 4, 2014 Report Share Posted August 4, 2014 If we're not that good where does that leave Scottish football? Minnows compared to who exactly? We're one of the biggest clubs in Scotland - probably in the top 8 size wise. It leaves Scottish football with the minnows. National team seeded 4. Champions, 3 qualifying rounds. Foreign clubs taking our players. Minnows compared to other 'top' clubs. 4-5,000 crowds, lowish wages. Lower wage than some teir 4 in England! Last time I checked we had 8th biggest turnover, might be 7 now since Killie sold/got off the books, their hotel. We finished 2nd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fat_tony Posted August 4, 2014 Report Share Posted August 4, 2014 If this is the state of these boards now, a time usually reserved for blind early season optimism, I hate to see how it'll be when we hit our November slump. Last season I was expecting to see banner ads for the Samaritans on every page, who knows what it'll be this season. There seems to be a real negative spiral amongst some of our support, which gets worse each season despite continued on-field success (at least in the league). Have people become too accustomed to it? Or are some people really just happiest when they're moaning about something? This is the first season in a long while where I'm not absolutely champing at the bit for the first SPL match, and I think it's because I just can't be arsed with all the negativity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welldaft Mk1 Posted August 17, 2014 Report Share Posted August 17, 2014 Thought I would post in this thread rather than post match as it is a wider discussion on our form and prospects for this season. Yesterday was a shambles quite simply and whilst I will not panic like a fair few, even I a happy clapper think top 6 is probably the best we can hope for this season. A good cup run would not go amiss but even that looks a forlorn hope. That said looking at our squad - when injury free and loanees are up to speed I still think it will be the strongest outside of Celtic, Aberdeen and United. I don't care who plays in our 1st team as long as they are the best for that position. Kerr has done well in central defence, but if O'Brien IS a better bet then give him the gig. Ojamma will need at least 2 -3 games to get up to full fitness and speed. I also think that mcCall subbing Sutton and lasley is a sign of the times. I am a fan of Sutton as he is a proven goalscorer, but more of a poacher and he is not getting the service. That said on the evidence of the 1st few games I would have Erwin start with Ojamma up front. Once we get a left back fit along with those other players inc Vigurs, Ojamma etc, then we are better placed to judge what out season will be like. Yesterday was painful, but I am confident it will get better. Remember we started last season in almost exactly the same form. Sure we will not finish 2nd on 70 points, but I still think we will be top 6 which given our frankly pathetic crowds is almost an acheivement in itself!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underboyleheating Posted August 17, 2014 Report Share Posted August 17, 2014 given our frankly pathetic crowds Sadly it will only get worse if performances on the park don’t improve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welldaft Mk1 Posted August 17, 2014 Report Share Posted August 17, 2014 Sadly it will only get worse if performances on the park don't improve. This is the problem. I have seen a few cite apathy on here. This after finsihing 2nd in the league and on a record points total. That is what is pathetic. We been through it before and will discuss ad infinitum again. Time to get your support behind the team is when they are struggling. We have a core support of 4000 and pretty much always have had, but we are not even getting that at games so far this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Stall Posted August 17, 2014 Report Share Posted August 17, 2014 Last year, the first few games we were god awful and befeft of attacking ideas. We snuck a couple of results from long balls to sutton with a flick on to anier. Im not panicking yet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lobey_Dosser Posted August 17, 2014 Report Share Posted August 17, 2014 We got 2nd playing far from attractive football in arguably the worst top tier of my lifetime. The increase in Season Ticket price was always going to lead to a drop in crowds. McCall has been very candid during his interviews this season as usual and he's a good listen. However, when asked about aspirations, he says all that matters is winning games. I disagree, for a club thats living on fine margins, we need a longer term view and a solid youth infrastructure should be central to our business model. Yet we seemingly don't have a left back at under 20 level. That's not McCalls fault but who is ensuring the future of the club? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted August 17, 2014 Report Share Posted August 17, 2014 We got 2nd playing far from attractive football in arguably the worst top tier of my lifetime. The increase in Season Ticket price was always going to lead to a drop in crowds. we sat through some of the worst motherwell performances and football matches i've ever seen last season and other than the attitude and commitment of the core players there were almost no positives. the club responded by raising prices and setting an ultimatum for the well society whilst preparing so poorly for europe that we were beaten over 210 minutes by a part time side and also making no attempt to fix the glaring deficiencies in our squad. in the last two games we have been totally shut down by inverness and dundee united despite the fact that neither of those two sides have a single player who is out of our price range. the club has the resources available to put a competitive team on the park but we are wasting them on too many players who are either too old, not good enough or don't have enough respect for the club to get themselves properly fit. how many season tickets do we have to sell just to pay the wages of nielsen, cummins and mchugh this season? i'd estimate 600. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted August 17, 2014 Report Share Posted August 17, 2014 in the last two games we have been totally shut down by inverness and dundee united despite the fact that neither of those two sides have a single player who is out of our price range. Bilate was being touted to Motherwell - then they found out what his wage demands were and they fall "far outside" anything we could afford. So, you're wrong again. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yassin Posted August 17, 2014 Report Share Posted August 17, 2014 Bilate was being touted to Motherwell - then they found out what his wage demands were and they fall "far outside" anything we could afford. So, you're wrong again. Where did you see this? Either United are paying him a fair wedge or we're skint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelvinBragg Posted August 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 17, 2014 Where did you see this? Either United are paying him a fair wedge or we're skint. McCall quoted after United game saying this... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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