Kmcalpin Posted August 17, 2014 Report Share Posted August 17, 2014 Felt really sorry for Ferguson yesterday. Looked terrified, shouldn't have been played out of position over Reid doing so, and just played ever more inside himself as the game went on. Really quite pissed off at McCall for leaving him on like that. Totally confidence shattering for him. Playing Erwin in front of him does no-one any good either. You're spot on mate. This was a serious error of judgement by our manager. I really hope it doesn't shatter his confidence. I'm all for blooding youth but this was a completely wrong call. At best he was badly advised by somebody on the coaching staff. No problem whatsoever with Lee Erwin but he is not a left sided midfielder and it was unfair to expect him to play in that role. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmacd1 Posted August 17, 2014 Report Share Posted August 17, 2014 The way Ferguson was left exposed at times was criminal. Even worse though was when Ferguson had the ball none of our players looked interested in receiving it. I like Lasley but a captain has to be doing more verbally when there are so many kids playing, especially one making his debut. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
another number Posted August 17, 2014 Report Share Posted August 17, 2014 In the first half Ferguson looked like he wanted to stay wide and was being told to come in and almost man mark, which he seemed totally uncomfortable doing because he was getting dragged all over the place Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tweed Posted August 17, 2014 Report Share Posted August 17, 2014 Was speaking to someone today who said Inverness were absolutely magnificent yesterday and they felt part of the reason we were shown up so badly was that their ball retention and pressurising was so good. Having only read the posts on the web about the game which have all been very down about us but just wondered if the thought of Inverness being excellent was a parallel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pettywulliegrew-2 Posted August 17, 2014 Report Share Posted August 17, 2014 It could be worse...........remember this waste of money !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rednaz Posted August 17, 2014 Report Share Posted August 17, 2014 We did start with two "centre forwards".......Ainsworth was constantly in the right midfield....so we had three forwards on from the start.........against United we had two (centre)forwards on from the start with four midfielders........ Did you think this team selection worked yesterday mate ??????? I am certainly not disputing that we started with two" centre forwards" however one was told to play left mid field / wing. Ainsworth for me was playing the same position as last season. One of the forwards (Erwin ) has started the last two games at left hand side spending more time tracking back defensively than getting at the opposition. I agree that McCall,s team selection certainly did not work yesterday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milo Posted August 17, 2014 Report Share Posted August 17, 2014 Inverness were excellent Tweed, no doubt about it. Their passing, movement, possession, attacking, defending and everything about them was top drawer. I was hugely impressed. I would take about half a dozen of their players for Motherwell in a heartbeat. As an aside, I watched the highlights from the other premier league games there and all the other teams, with the exception of possibly Ross County look significantly better than us. Significantly. Why is that? Why are these teams with comparable budgets looking sharp, fit, capable of passing and moving with players who know there roles and are even able to retain possession and mount attacks with purpose? You know, pretty much everything you consider inherent to a pro football team! Sorry, I'm still struggling to get my head round how bad we were yesterday on every level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy_P Posted August 17, 2014 Report Share Posted August 17, 2014 Felt really sorry for Ferguson yesterday. Looked terrified, shouldn't have been played out of position over Reid doing so, and just played ever more inside himself as the game went on. Really quite pissed off at McCall for leaving him on like that. Totally confidence shattering for him. You're spot on mate. This was a serious error of judgement by our manager. I really hope it doesn't shatter his confidence. I'm all for blooding youth but this was a completely wrong call. At best he was badly advised by somebody on the coaching staff. A few things here. On the team selection itself. When I saw the line up it immediately struck me that we had no defensive cover on the bench. That seemed extremely risky were we to suffer from injury or a red-card. I would have expected at least one defender in case of emergency never mind someone off form. Why we've gone for David Ferguson only McCall, Black and Johannsen will know, I think Jack McMillan, played at least one of the pre-season games at left-back so l would presume there is either no one else available or they don't deem anyone else sufficiently ready. It's been suggested by a couple that Reid should have been at left-back. Where is the actual evidence that he has played there before? Genuine question, is there any? We know he can play at right-back and has filled at centre-half and in front of the defence in the past. But when has he played left-back? If we are to assume what we started with in defence is all we had then would moving Reid to left-back, presumably Kerr to right-back and Ferguson in the middle not mean two players out of position rather than just one? (admittedly a rookie). I'm not saying it's right or wrong but that's the kind of thing McCall is often criticised for. But when the game started, that was it, we had virtually no scope for defensive change no matter how things would have gone. I think as it is people and McCall will see Ferguson's performance for what was. A youngster playing his first full game out of position. Few if any are going to attribute any blame whatsoever to him. If anything he's likely to be credited by his manager for getting through it as well as he did. But to suggest he should have been taken off. Replace him by who? We had nobody to replace him with! And if you think his confidence was dented by playing the full ninety just what would you expect it to be like if McCall had replaced him? It's unfortunate to have two left-backs out at the one time in a squad as tight as ours. I think there is certainly validity in questioning why there wasn't defensive cover on the bench, but I strongly believe it would have done much much more harm than good had Ferguson been taken off and made to look or feel in any way culpable for the situation he was placed in yesterday. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tweed Posted August 17, 2014 Report Share Posted August 17, 2014 It's been suggested by a couple that Reid should have been at left-back. Where is the actual evidence that he has played there before? Genuine question, is there any? We know he can play at right-back and has filled at centre-half and in front of the defence in the past. But when has he played left-back? If we are to assume what we started with in defence is all we had then would moving Reid to left-back, presumably Kerr to right-back and Ferguson in the middle not mean two players out of position rather than just one? (admittedly a rookie). I'm not saying it's right or wrong but that's the kind of thing McCall is often criticised for. My opinion is more seasoned pros are more able to adapt. Not saying it is ideal, of course it isn't but if you are putting someone in for their first start at least have them only adjusting to a new level and not a new position as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brazilian Posted August 17, 2014 Report Share Posted August 17, 2014 Game is on Alba just now, their new 60 minutes extended highlights package Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pettywulliegrew-2 Posted August 17, 2014 Report Share Posted August 17, 2014 My opinion is more seasoned pros are more able to adapt. Not saying it is ideal, of course it isn't but if you are putting someone in for their first start at least have them only adjusting to a new level and not a new position as well. Agree mate.....beggars belief.........then put Erwin a guy who has made 2 starts a forward, put him in midfield.....when the bench was loaded with midfielders Someone else mentioned it earlier in this post......what would have happened if defender got injured......Gunnar at centre half.............Boab at left back ??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StipeIsGod Posted August 17, 2014 Report Share Posted August 17, 2014 A few things here. On the team selection itself. When I saw the line up it immediately struck me that we had no defensive cover on the bench. That seemed extremely risky were we to suffer from injury or a red-card. I would have expected at least one defender in case of emergency never mind someone off form. Why we've gone for David Ferguson only McCall, Black and Johannsen will know, I think Jack McMillan, played at least one of the pre-season games at left-back so l would presume there is either no one else available or they don't deem anyone else sufficiently ready. It's been suggested by a couple that Reid should have been at left-back. Where is the actual evidence that he has played there before? Genuine question, is there any? We know he can play at right-back and has filled at centre-half and in front of the defence in the past. But when has he played left-back? If we are to assume what we started with in defence is all we had then would moving Reid to left-back, presumably Kerr to right-back and Ferguson in the middle not mean two players out of position rather than just one? (admittedly a rookie). I'm not saying it's right or wrong but that's the kind of thing McCall is often criticised for. But when the game started, that was it, we had virtually no scope for defensive change no matter how things would have gone. I think as it is people and McCall will see Ferguson's performance for what was. A youngster playing his first full game out of position. Few if any are going to attribute any blame whatsoever to him. If anything he's likely to be credited by his manager for getting through it as well as he did. But to suggest he should have been taken off. Replace him by who? We had nobody to replace him with! And if you think his confidence was dented by playing the full ninety just what would you expect it to be like if McCall had replaced him? It's unfortunate to have two left-backs out at the one time in a squad as tight as ours. I think there is certainly validity in questioning why there wasn't defensive cover on the bench, but I strongly believe it would have done much much more harm than good had Ferguson been taken off and made to look or feel in any way culpable for the situation he was placed in yesterday. Ok. Right. Good points, and I see where you're coming from. My take: There's no evidence of Reid being useful at LB. I just assume that, due to experience, he'd be more capable, both in playing and especially mentally, with dealing with playing in an unfamiliar position and with the criticism which comes with the mistakes made due to the change. I also believed prior to play that Ferguson was a right back, which would only necessitate moving Reid, as opposed to Kerr as well, which would lead to more turbulence, admittedly. I hope that people see Ferguson's performance as such, but I have little faith in such a level headed view being taken of the circumstances, from the fans (not McCall, who will support him), especially considering that the vast majority don't pay as much attention as some on here do, and would assume he's actually a left back normally. Replacement - At that point, nigh on anyone, and move, again, Reid or someone into his position. He looked crushed, panicked, and unable to move forward in the game with no assistance, and I really feel for the guy. I can fully understand the thought on taking him off before full time, and I think it's an extremely delicate managerial tightrope, which on this occasion I feel that McCall fell on the wrong side, on the man-management front. He should have taken him off, made clear that it was a job well done, but a wee shape change was needed, or something like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StipeIsGod Posted August 17, 2014 Report Share Posted August 17, 2014 Also very comma heavy and garbled there. Apologies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texanwellfan Posted August 17, 2014 Report Share Posted August 17, 2014 everyoen on McCall's back for playing ferguson at left back. Seemed reasonable selection to me. He came on against Utd midweek at left back and by all accounts had a reasonable game. So why nt play him there again against what should be a weaker team. Passing from A to B has sod all to do with playing out of position. It's basic skill any professional player should be able to do anywwhere on the park. So McCall is taking his share of the blame but the players also have to take some blame. Since McCall has proved us wrong on man y occassions I am going to out my faith in hiom again to sort things out. My money is on him knowing much more about the game than all the people on here. He's seeing what we see plus a whole lot more during the week. "In McCall we trust"......................or at least I do COYW 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuwell Posted August 17, 2014 Report Share Posted August 17, 2014 Anyone know why Hughes had a go at Leith as he came on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pettywulliegrew-2 Posted August 17, 2014 Report Share Posted August 17, 2014 Anyone know why Hughes had a go at Leith as he came on? Not watched the highlights...........but Leitch was a bit like a man possessed when he was on the park !!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuwell Posted August 17, 2014 Report Share Posted August 17, 2014 don't know if it will be on the highlights tbh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pettywulliegrew-2 Posted August 17, 2014 Report Share Posted August 17, 2014 everyoen on McCall's back for playing ferguson at left back. Seemed reasonable selection to me. He came on against Utd midweek at left back and by all accounts had a reasonable game. So why nt play him there again against what should be a weaker team. Passing from A to B has sod all to do with playing out of position. It's basic skill any professional player should be able to do anywwhere on the park. So McCall is taking his share of the blame but the players also have to take some blame. Since McCall has proved us wrong on man y occassions I am going to out my faith in hiom again to sort things out. My money is on him knowing much more about the game than all the people on here. He's seeing what we see plus a whole lot more during the week. "In McCall we trust"......................or at least I do COYW Mate the team was wholly in balanced by players playing out of position.....I'm not a McCall boo boy......but is plain too see the midfield were getting swamped.... with midfielders on the bench.....forwards dropping back trying to play midfield ..... ending up with no service to the forward(S)................ hence why in the last two games ........we have according to the stats we have no shots on target in the last two games (we have hit he bar and had a shot headed clear from inside the 6 yard box) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Del_Superwell Posted August 17, 2014 Report Share Posted August 17, 2014 Hughes wasn't having a go at Leitch, he was telling something like he better not come on score before having a laugh with him as he came on, it was nothing more than that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goggles & Flippers Posted August 17, 2014 Report Share Posted August 17, 2014 I just don't think we've consistently bossed a midfield since Steve Jennings left, even during the 2012-13 season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texanwellfan Posted August 18, 2014 Report Share Posted August 18, 2014 Mate the team was wholly in balanced by players playing out of position.....I'm not a McCall boo boy......but is plain too see the midfield were getting swamped.... with midfielders on the bench.....forwards dropping back trying to play midfield ..... ending up with no service to the forward(S)................ hence why in the last two games ........we have according to the stats we have no shots on target in the last two games (we have hit he bar and had a shot headed clear from inside the 6 yard box) Fair enough but my 2 main points are as listed below and not addressed by your response. 1. Based on ferguson's display against utd why would McCall not put him in at left back against ICT ? 2. Regardles of position a prefessional player should be able to make a pass. Players out of position Ferguson: How mnay players over the years gave switched between right and lef tfull back and been able to do it? A shit load. While McCall can be blamed fo rmany thigns I don't think he can be blamed for selecting ferguson at left back against inverness. Law: from what i have read not a left mid palyer and not signed with the purpose of filling that role. Ok Obviously I was not at the game but looking at the line up I would say only 2 players are out of position Law and Ferguson. However from what I have read sounds like Erwin was playing a wide left role and the role that was Law was playing was hard to fathom. So for that, yes, I would say is down to McCall. So I don't think our issue is with players playing out of position as much as it is players not playing to their potential and not performing as a team. So it's up to players to perform to their potential and up to McCall to get the formation and tactics right. I think both will happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bart Verheul Posted August 18, 2014 Report Share Posted August 18, 2014 Just a wee thought that occurred to me about Ferguson. I agree with everybody that he was out his depth at left back but who was the last player we had making his debut out of position at left back and looking totally lost. Uncle Phil Not for a minute am I suggesting Ferguson will go on and be the player O'Donnell was (different position) for a start but how many of us could have seen how that turned out after Phil's debut Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted August 18, 2014 Report Share Posted August 18, 2014 Just a wee thought that occurred to me about Ferguson. I agree with everybody that he was out his depth at left back but who was the last player we had making his debut out of position at left back.... Was it not Faddy against Dundee and he came on as a sub to play left back, if my memory serves correctly (2001/02?). Lost 3-0. At the time Pat Nevin said he could play anywhere on the left hand side. Don't recall if he played left back again certainly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ya Bezzer! Posted August 18, 2014 Report Share Posted August 18, 2014 Players out of position Ferguson: How mnay players over the years gave switched between right and lef tfull back and been able to do it? A shit load. While McCall can be blamed fo rmany thigns I don't think he can be blamed for selecting ferguson at left back against inverness. Law: from what i have read not a left mid palyer and not signed with the purpose of filling that role. Ok Obviously I was not at the game but looking at the line up I would say only 2 players are out of position Law and Ferguson. However from what I have read sounds like Erwin was playing a wide left role and the role that was Law was playing was hard to fathom. So for that, yes, I would say is down to McCall. So I don't think our issue is with players playing out of position as much as it is players not playing to their potential and not performing as a team. You can't blame McCall for playing Ferguson. It's obvious that he only played him because there was no real choice but what you can blame him for is from deviating from our normal tactical set up and putting out a formation where we played a narrow three in midfield and left a huge wide open space in from of a young player making his debut in an unfamiliar position on his wrong foot; and what protection he did get was from another young player, making only his 3rd league start, again in an unfamiliar position of wide left attacker. To compound that even further the central midfielder furtherest left, was Josh Law, another player out of position! And Law was, in my opinion, the worst performer out of the midfield 3. If we had played our normal 4-4-2 at least Lasley and Carswell are both used to that set up and playing in those areas of the pitch, something Josh Law clearly wasn't. And even if Law had had to play at left midfield due to no one else being available, at least he would have given Ferguson a bit more protection. We played as follows .........................Twardzik........................ Reid...........Kerr..................McManus.......Ferguson ........................Carswell........................... ...............Lasley...............Law.................... Ainsworth.............................................Erwin .........................Sutton......................... You can see the gaps down the side above but, believe me, it was much more apparent on a 100 yard football pitch. Ferguson often had about 40/50 yards of wide open space in front of him. No wonder he was clearly shiteing himself! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East Stand Well Boy Posted August 18, 2014 Report Share Posted August 18, 2014 The role Erwin played was similar to the role Jamie Murphy played for us. It seemed like he had been told to make runs into the channel from his position, to look at drag the Inverness defence out of their positions, however the teams performance on a whole was not good enough to capitalise on this and in the end it just seemed Erwin didn't know what to do, especially with raven going forward at any opportunity and Erwin have to track him back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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